Thursday, December 18, 2008

West Texas locals view TYC as jobs program

During prison building boom in the '90s, Texas pols came to view new prison units as a way to prop up the economy in depopulating rural areas, hoping to slow the rapid urbanization that transformed the state in recent decades.

However, siting corrections units in remote, rural areas created many practical problems: It's difficult to find staffing, even more difficult to find medical specialists or mental health providers, and for juvenile corrections there's little access to specialized programming that might help kids succeed.

Equally frustrating, because the only reason the state put prison units in tiny rural towns was to prop up their economy with political pork, locals inevitably came to see those agencies as mere jobs program instead of fulfilling a state function. That dynamic may be seen in this Odessa American story ("Possible Pyote Closing," Dec. 16) about the possible closure of TYC's West Texas State School:

Less than a year after the last battle, David Cutbirth is ready to fight again to keep the West Texas State School in Pyote.

With a drop in the oil and gas markets, the Monahans mayor said there's an even greater need for the Texas Youth Commission facility and the 153 jobs it provides.

"About the time we need jobs, they shut it down," Cutbirth said. "That's the damn state for you."

Cutbirth was upset over a recommendation in a report by the staff of the Sunset Advisory Commission, a state agency created to eliminate waste, duplication and inefficiency in government. The group called for the TYC facility, located 15 miles west of Monahans in Ward County, to be closed, citing a difficulty to keep the juvenile prison staffed.

Due to a lack of workers, the Pyote school is budgeted for 96 youth, even though it has 240 beds, the Sunset commission said in its report. It currently has 92 students. Closing it would save the state $9 million.

Cutbirth clearly could care less about TYC's juvenile justice functions, and he certainly doesn't care that the local DA isn't interesting in prosecuting sex crimes at the unit. His only concern is that "we need jobs."

However that's not remotely TYC's responsibility to worry about - it's got enough troubles managing its own business. Anyway, a far bigger blow to the West Texas economy are layoffs in the oil industry; by comparison, TYC is small potatoes.

The biggest irony is that Cutbirth actually lost this fight in 2007 and apparently didn't realize it. The Legislature only budgeted the Pyote facility through fiscal year 2008, and the unit is currently being operated on leftover savings because of understaffing at other TYC units. (The same is true for the Victory Field unit in Vernon.)

While the Sunset staff projected budget savings from those closures, in fact that was an erroneous analysis - closing those facilities won't reduce TYC's budget from the current amount, but keeping them open would cost the state more. Bottom line: The Pyote and Victory Field units are already living on borrowed time.

Prisons are not jobs programs - that's true for both TDCJ and TYC. If the state wants to invest in jobs programs, prisons have a relatively small economic multiplier effect (see this report from the Sentencing Project) while other investments - in education, healthcare, and transportation infrastructure, for example - will give much more job-producing bang for the buck.

To the extent TYC should be salvaged, it's because it fulfills an important state function, not soley to put money in the locals' pockets. Where that's the goal, there are many more beneficial ways to go about it.

131 comments:

Anonymous said...

Every part of the justice system is viewed by people as a jobs program. From judges to jails.

Anonymous said...

This is the most ignorant entry you have put up yet - ALL areas that have fscilites nearby see them and often depend on them for jobs and a spark to the local community. It seems to me that you are implying that people in West Texas seem to discount rehabilitation, protection and safety etc..that is simply not the truth - for a person who seems to be/act smart that was a ridiculous statement - idiot

Gritsforbreakfast said...

"It seems to me that you are implying that people in West Texas seem to discount rehabilitation, protection and safety"

I'm not implying anything. I'm saying straight up there aren't enough service providers, staff or other necessary professionals out there to do the job and that the local DA won't prosecute sex crimes. Those things are true. What's "ignorant" about them?

As for depending on prison for "jobs and a spark to the local community," with respect I think it's you who're displaying ignorance. Prisons don't generate as large a multiplier effect as free world endeavors which means you get relatively small economic bang for the buck compared to other public investments. Plus the pay is quite poor compared to the private sector.

If the goal is economic growth, financing prisons is a wrong-headed way to go about it.

Anonymous said...

Grits, you hit the nail hard on. You gave it straight and some will be upset about it. The citizens around the Pyote area could care less about youth treatment there. Many have been improperly oriented and feel youth "get what they deserve"....lack of punishment for the sex abusers. The local leadership wants jobs and if youth need to be sacrificed for the locals goals..so be it. Same for bigger businesses. Leadership doesn't want anything to interrupt their own defined destiny. The prep school for prison needs to be relocated, where some treatment can be obtained. Go Grits!

Anonymous said...

The newspaper owner placed the first nails in the coffin, when a state representative had to reprimand him for negative comments, which undermined keeping the lockup open. Now the mayor, in his above others attitude,and need jobs badly; just placed the final nails on the closure of the youth ranch. He already bled the new oil workers in town and now his dumb comments will close SouthFork for youth. So much for leadership in West Texas.

Anonymous said...

You are right about the economic multiplier effect. Those areas that rely on corrections for payroll tend to be quite moribund. You are also right about the pay. It is one thing to have employment for corrections officers, it is another thing entirely to provide incentives for qualified professional treatment providers. The two issues are connected. The state of Texas does not pay enough to encourage such professionals to move to the rural areas. The pay for licensed PhD psychologists is ridiculously low and uncompetitive, for instance.

And no, I am not a psychologist, so I am not advocating my own case here.

Anonymous said...

More money...more money..., TYC answer for everything. Sick of it. Do your jobs, or go elsewhere.

Anonymous said...

It's pretty frightening to realize how many people view being prison guards in an abusive system (which Texas is) as a "job."

By definition, that's got to be a pretty questionable segment of the population. Why aren't they asking for something besides prisons to create jobs? Could it be that they like the authority they get working in a prison?

And we're subsidizing them and giving them police power over thousands.

My goodness, this is West Texas. Go build wind farm projects, more parks, anything but more prisons.

Anonymous said...

While waiting in a visiting room at a TDCJ Unit, another person told me that many CO's do the job because it is the only way they can have power in their lives.

Certainly they do not get financial power for the work so it is clearly power over the lives of others they are after.

Professionals such as MD's and Psychologists have the power of knowledge and self confidence in their lives. They are not attracted to TDCJ or TYC work.

Genuine altrusim is hard to find!

Anonymous said...

1014: If you feel it is implied...let me make it plain for you. People in West Texas do not care about rehabilitation, protection and safety. Perhaps their own, but not for youth. If you did, more of you would have stood up and demanded the sex abusers and coverup be taken care of. Rather, it was brushed off and hoped to go away. You do not deserve to have a youth treatment center in West Texas; you had it and ruined what you had.

Anonymous said...

Sounds like Pyote is the new Gatesville.

BB

Anonymous said...

Gatesville Texas grew a thriving community on the blood of Texas throw away children and continue to strive with the old boys reformatory converted to an adult prison. How do you explain to a small thinking person or group representative such as the rural town mayor that they can make more money in a unknown enterprise when they have a sure deal with an ongoing small potato enterprise?
Sheldon tyc#47333 c/s

Anonymous said...

12:40 you nailed it. Now, me personally am getting a charge in the irony behind what you say. It must really suck for todays tyc emp who gets a job to have control over people but the people have control over them. That may explain all the defensive whining we see on this blog from tyc emps. LOL LOL LOL
On the other hand it’s a sad situation, and we the tax payers will continue to suffer from the products this diseased tyc culture turns out.
Sheldon tyc#47333 c/s

Anonymous said...

Its too bad that a few good employees at West Texas will lose their jobs because of unconcerned administrators and town leadership that is dumb. What's that old saying.."insert foot in mouth before brain engaged"; fits the mayor and newspaper perfectly. If they had played this right the Pyote site may have been saved. I agree, these two nuts yeilded the hammer that will close WT. Probably the best bet anyway.

Anonymous said...

How about the nutts at 1240: Are you saying the psy's at Pyote and other TYC sites are unqualified? You may very well be right. A culture thing? "I could be making millions outside TYC'; it must be a sacrifice of personal lives to help youth in trouble. Get real.

Anonymous said...

It must be easy to sit there retired, in another job, or just plain unemployed for some of you and point the finger at direct care staff. I would love to see you do what we do on a daily basis - run the schedule, run groups, participate in a few riots, shutdowns and disturbances and wake up and still go to work with a positive attitude and one goal in mind - to help these kids. You guys would run screaming out the gates with dirty drawers yet be the first to write to someone, anyone, that will listen and tell them how we could have "handled it better". You seem to think that we are uneducated goons that get off on bossing around the youth, but it is unfair and cowardly to imply such nonsense - you have many staff who are well educated, certified professionals and CHOOSE to work with the top 3% percent of the toughest youth in Texas.

This is not whining nor a justification - just plain facts.

Can any of you point me in the direction of a perfect system or institution in any state? If you can, I have some ocean front property in Arizona I would like to unload!

Sheldon - as much as you brag about your education and your success despite your obstacles - get over yourself - look in the mirror and you will see a whiner.

Anonymous said...

Pimp Daddy or Role Model?
There is one aspect of the TYC culture that the parents of TYC students may want to look at. What about those JCO VIs and Vs? Many TYC students have witnessed few examples of responsible behavior before coming to us. When they come to TYC they encounter the Me Dog JCO male who is out to spread his seed with no thought given to personal responsibility. He sees the female JCOs as his little harem of females who are too ignorant to expect any person connection from the man who wants to do his thing and move on.

The students are not blind to these examples and he gets the message that once a "man" has created a child he can just walk away and look for some more action elsewhere. Very seldom at TYC is there to be seen an example of a family with a responsible male.

Anonymous said...

Pimp Daddy or Role Model?
There is one aspect of the TYC culture that the parents of TYC students may want to look at. What about those JCO VIs and Vs? Many TYC students have witnessed few examples of responsible behavior before coming to us. When they come to TYC they encounter the Me Dog JCO male who is out to spread his seed with no thought given to personal responsibility. He sees the female JCOs as his little harem of females who are too ignorant to expect any person connection from the man who wants to do his thing and move on.

The students are not blind to these examples and he gets the message that once a "man" has created a child he can just walk away and look for some more action elsewhere. Very seldom at TYC is there to be seen an example of a family with a responsible male.

Anonymous said...

Grits,

A lot of the reasons that correctional facilities are placed in rural areas is that urban areas oppose their placement and there are statutes that aid urban local governments in their opposition to placing such institutions. Additionally labor costs in urban area are higher so to compete the state would have to pay more money.

I am amazed that the bloggers in this posting seem to believe that every TYC employee is a power hungry sexual pervert. Over the years I have know hundreds of TYC employees from all over the state and virtually all of them wre caring youth care workers. The ones who were not were generally the employees that were in termination hearings where I was there representing the agency.

Howard A, Hickman

Anonymous said...

I don't view TYC as a jobs program, but since I've worked WTSS for fifteen years I do see it as my job. I'm sad to have to go work somewhere else because I've met some really great hard-working people that became my friends and co-workers. Yes, I've met some real anal apertures such as Ray Brookins, who with great deal of skill, successfully manipulated some very smart people into believing that he was God's gift. Still, according to the law he's still innocent until proven guilty. Something I don't think Randy thought he could do, and I wager the AG won't be able to later. I don't know how you make a living Scott. Surely, it isn't this. However, if it ever happens that you are faced with the loss of your income, I hope you don't have to read a blogger expressing such glee and satisfaction at that loss as you have expressed here. I don't think you're an idiot, but I do think you are making assumptions about something you have only read about in the papers and magazines. I wish you'd come by and visit WTSS. You actually had quite a few fans here prior to this.

Anonymous said...

5:11 PM -

Man Hated recently? Divorced recently? Self esteem need a boost?There are books out there you know!!

Anonymous said...

Well said 6:41 pm

Gritsforbreakfast said...

I've expressed neither "glee" nor "satisfaction" at anyone losing their job, 6:41. Please quote the line from my post that you think supports that absurd accusation. Otherwise, you're just being defensive, not reacting to anything I've written, which is fairly typical on these TYC strings. You dispute nothing specific I've said, you just don't like the truth being uttered publicly.

To the person who wrote to Sheldon, "look in the mirror and you will see a whiner": I've never seen a bigger gaggle of whiners than (some) TYC employees in these comment sections. If what you say about Sheldon is true, I think I know where he learned the behavior.

Look folks, I'm not the one who molested kids out there, nor am I one of the staffers who looked the other way while it was happening. I'm not responsible for the fact WTSS can't hire enough staff to keep the facility full. What's more, I'm not a legislator and had nothing to do with eliminating the WTSS budget (which is already a done deal). Blame me for all this if it makes you feel better, but I didn't cause the mess you're in, nor am I gloating over it now.

Anonymous said...

Braniacs,

If they build a new facility let's say in Kerville, TX - do you think that people will be breaking down the door to work there because there is a doctor's office next door? A psych clinic?

The answer is NO - it wil be a handfull of displaced TYC staff and a few college graduates with no experience - good idea build anew facility and build in an urban area...NOT

All of you "experts" need to pick up an appplication and come to work - please enlighten us - be a real part of the solution - don't hide in your den blogging about youth care and rehabilitation of youth - do something!!

Anonymous said...

Grits,

What you are not seeing is neither are we - you group all of us and that is wrong. What you do not know is that in some weird way most of us used to agree with and discuss accuracy and legitimacy in your past blogs. You, BB and Sheldon use condescending words and use LOL statements in your entries. If you group us, then I will then group all of you as ignorant, impractical,over the hill, burned out and cowards - drink your Metamucil and go to bed already.

Anonymous said...

Took a look at your bio - never read about any direct care, facility related, juvenile related experience - arm chair QB I guess - do not be obtuse Grits what seems to work on paper, does not work in the real world )the field) but never mind - you do not know what the field is.

Anonymous said...

A few years ago, the community and TYC in general were well aware that the West Texas team was productive and doing great things for youth and the agency at Pyote. History!. Those folks are long gone. Now you have a mixture of misfits and lost administrators, wondering where they are or should be. Poor youth are lost in your Pyote nightmare shuffle. Bitch all you want, you and the community brought the shame to the national level and now it all comes back around. You made your beds, now stop the bitching and feel sorry for me scheme; and get a new life! When you screwed the youth...you screwed yourselves and families.

Anonymous said...

Interesting 805; perhaps the institution management and local news paper owner and mayor, and any other idiot in Pyote and Monahans, and Pecos, should have a meeting, to determine who won the award for losing a good TYC facility in Ward County. As a group, you all seem to fit in the beyond dumb, stupid, idiot, freak category. Merry Christmas.

Anonymous said...

8:05 - what planet are you on? The old school (Harrison, Harris, Clay, Bernard) good ole boy system is what brought this scandal to a head. It is current staff that have to bear the burden and pay the price for their mistakes and indiscretions.

Anonymous said...

8:13 - PLEASE come to Pecos, repeat your statement out loud and I am sure there are plenty of folks there that would "engage you" - in conversation of course

Anonymous said...

What is missed by all these posts and the REASON WTSS stays open is based upon beds.

With the 12 to 1 ratio's it's next to impossible to close another facility without opening a new one.

Let's also use Whitmires argument about having kids around their families. If you close down WTSS the closest facility would be Edinburg. I'm sure the parents wont mind.

Anonymous said...

Everyone knows about the Pecos freaks. Another reason to move the facility from that area. Oh yes, the old school....you would like the public to believe they are all wrong, did it all, and now gone; except there are some of you who were part of the old school, still there. Still part of the problem. Its neat to blame those who are gone....the stength is still there....you can't cover it up any longer. You all stir it more every day you are in Ward County. Pack it up...move it on....roll um...roll..um....roll..um..

Anonymous said...

Shouldn't you be practicing your lines? Let me hlp it goes like this......

"Paper or plastic?"

"Would you like mustard/ketchup with that order?"

You are probably someone who tried and failed, not only in TYC but in life - don't be mad

Noticed you did not accept the invitation

Anonymous said...

West Texas--get over it already! I am at Victory Field and I'm not happy about the probability of losing my job either, but Grits didn't create the problems, he only writes about them. You know what? Sh*t happens, and it usually isn't fair.

Life is tough---GET A HELMET!

Anonymous said...

Pecos punks? Then wonder why the world disrespects you? Go hurt a juvenile or beat up an old person, so you feel better. Appears you know a lot about serving people...on the knees also? I bet your a staff and should be locked up yourself! A hell of an example for youth, huh? Big guy..huh? Tattootos, also?

Anonymous said...

Tattootos?

Anonymous said...

Have you noticed the theme here? Thugs supervising thugs. Then wonder why youth return over and over to TYC. Thug atmosphere for youth in TYC....thug behavior for released and returned youth. Go to the oilfields, if you can understand English, and not fall in the well.

Anonymous said...

All this is worthless if we ca't get the legislators on board - now Sunset is split in their recommendation, TYC and TJPC don't want to be bundled - what is the answer?

Anonymous said...

Members of the legislature can be won over, with carishma and good a winning attitude. Just the opposite of what Smokey and Cuthroat have offered. It is a losing battle since these two expressed their opinions to the state. Good bye WTSS, and probably Vernon.

Anonymous said...

What always amazes me is the winers that come out after some horrific abuse by the police or corrections system.

If they were as noble as they pretend to be, they'd be doing an open and public professional soul searching after something like the TYC abuses. But we never get this.

Instead we get the winers talking about how hard their life is and no one understands.

But we do understand. Police officers and correctional officers think that their is the ultimate entitlement. They can abuse their power, cause rape, mayhem, and the ruin of countless lives, and then weasel out of the responsibility.

After all their job is stressful (no more than most, but they try to make us think otherwise), so the public should allow them to abuse the powerless in prisons while working off a little steam through some physical violence and sexual abuse.

And the fellow officers, who often wine the loudest after a scandal, don't do anything to stop it.

Anonymous said...

A simple question:

Why do police officers and corrections workers almost all affect the appearance of skinheads?

You don't see this in most professions. I think it is a telling choice.

Anonymous said...

Scott,you win. Look what you've accomplished. Aren't you proud?

Anonymous said...

How about quit listening to the Rant and all his shit stir, and move on? So what he was never promoted. He's a complete DUMBASS. Always has been. always will be - A COMPLETE DUMBASS.

Anonymous said...

Dumbass back at you...you maggott. You're the main one that caused most of this in the first place. I hope your cellmate in prison is a nerd. It bothers you badly that you were exposed. Most knew about you before it came out publicily. Slime back to your cave.

Anonymous said...

As an X employee of TYC, I can say that after 10 years at the facility I never met anyone that was not there because the didn't need the paycheck. Of course it is a jobs program. Any employment that gives you benefits, annual leave, sick leave, 401K, retirement...is a jobs program. The whole world revolves around making a living at a jobs program. I only left TYC because I couldn't take another year of waiting on the legislators decide my life for me in June and have to read the newspapers from Jan. to June.
I could live that way again without having to take medication.

Anonymous said...

typo-couldn't live that way

Anonymous said...

Most of the TYC employees say they are there for the kids...pay is not a question. Did I misunderstand?

Anonymous said...

I am sad for the employee's at West Texas and working at a TYC unit that is also on the block for a possible closure I feel your fustration and anger.
But it is not the time to blame others and take the fear of losing your livelyhood out on the world.

Look around, we are not the only ones in this day and time that are loosing our jobs. Look at the auto industry and mom and pop business and larger business that are closing. We are not alone in this and that still does not make it ok or help with the loss of income.

Look on the positive side, we might just land something that is even better than what we loose. Something with less drama each and everyday. A job we can be proud to say we work there! Right now TYC is a disgrace to all and not many want to tell anyone we are employed by them.

Fear brings out anger in us and the unknown is scary as all get out. On the bright side your free of all the hoop la that TYC has had to offer you in the years you have spent there. Your stress level will be reduced as soon as you find new employment or just resting at home on unemployment. Keep your faith that God will provide for your families and that you will make it. Let the anger and the blame fade and the hope and excitment of something new lead you to the greener pastures that you probably have been hoping for, for many years of abuse by those in TYC you have served.

Good luck to all of you and just believe that this is just the first step to a much better future than you ever had in a TYC facility.

Anonymous said...

Cutbirth is a pretty nice guy, and has tried to bring a wide variety of jobs and economic opportunity to Monahans and Ward County. I lived there for 20 years, raised my kids there, and it was not a bad place - never locked my door, left the keys in the car...
Randy doesn't prosecute anyone, so if the AG can, I'm sure he will, we'll have to see what happens.
I am sorry WTSS will close. I knew lots of people who worked there, at all levels. Some caring, others just there for a paycheck. It wasn't a terrible place, and certainly not much different from all other state schools.
Lastly, I hope the lege sees better than Whitmire and Sunset, and doesn't combine TJPC and TYC. They have such different functions, it will never work.
rem

Anonymous said...

A state facility dealing with the sensitive and critical isues facing troubled juveniles should NEVER be opened, placed or closed based on the economy of a municipality. I would have thought this was obvious.....

Anonymous said...

Well said 10:41,
To the anonymous blogger/ bloggers who seems bothered by my right to free speech, perhaps that’s the next social crime. LOL!!!
I would be more than happy to hold a dorm of not just the top 3% but I’ll take the top 1% of the states bad boys. I would be willing to do it for 3 months and produce, relative to tcy, positive results. The only problems I can see right off the bat is dealing with the tremendous pay cut, assuming I took pay to do the job, and my family’s resistant’s to live in bfe. Also what about the extreme embarrassment to tyc due to the positive results that the 1% youth would produce from my intervention? There may be a policy that prevents that.
I’ll throw something easier for you to swallow. I would be willing to go to MART, I assume that’s your bad ass facility now, and spend an hour or so locked in a dayroom with all the kids in cic, or whatever you call solitary these days, and hold Sheldon Group. I would want to fully exercise my right to free speech and would want to be free from JCO intervention. Sunday mornings could work for me how about you?
I survived tyc, I broke norms and have a successful career and a great family and I’m willing to share with any tyc kid how to do it. So if you people that call yourselves running the show, who care about the kids, I’m here with my sleeves rolled up. Otherwise, as we would say back in the day, nut up or shut up.
And btw I have been through tyc volunteer training by a very nice lady who cares about the kids. All the tyc emps and vols I have met in the last year I would venture to say care about the kids and appear from my brief encounter to be decent human beings. As I keep saying, it’s not the people it’s the culture. A few bad apples can keep an entrenched bad culture going in spite of the good work that many individuals do, especially a 120 year old bad culture. Sadly there will always be a few bad apples and just from reading this blog tyc appears to be very generous in this department.
A very good book that discuss bad cultures and how to possible fix them is called Good To Great by Jim Collins.

Sheldon tyc#47333 c/s

Anonymous said...

People from the WTX area should not respond to the negativity of others, we need to rise above the ingnorance and testosterone and continue to do a good job for the youth in our care just as we have always done.

Let's focus on work, our health, the holidays and our families rather than folks with little else to do but gloat, bad mouth and point fingers

End the neagative comments from our part at least so we can see clearly and focus on what is important.

Anonymous said...

More TYC guidance from the abusers? What a laugh.

Brookings appeared before the judge and will pay 500 per moth toward a court appointed lawer.
He initally lied on the form an stated je had no funds but when contfonted by the judge, stated he made 2,000 per month. More lies

Can we discuss this, Mr TYC guidance from WTSS?

Anonymous said...

I'm shocked! Just when I start to believe in the state school at Pyote, they attempt to tell everyone to keep quiet and more cover-up continues! This keep quiet...cover-up..is what started the initial sexual abuse incidents. We thought those employees were gone....THEY ARE STILL AT WEST TEXAS STATE SCHOOL! Same old crap from those sexual abusers.

Anonymous said...

No one speaks fo all of WTSS to clarify.....

WTX = West Texas i.e Midland, Odessa, Pyote, Imperial, Pecos, Ft Stockton, Monahans

WTSS = West Texas State School

There is a difference

Anonymous said...

So you're telling the entire West Texas area to be quiet? I can't believe you people are so arrogant. Can we continue to breath? Do we need TYC's permission to breath? Please closeup...move to where folks like you are acceptable.

Anonymous said...

Who do you represent 1158? Cutburth? WTSS? You are way out of line here. Don't try to force others to think like you. Have you heard of the 1st Amendment, or any of the others? Probably not. People such as you seem to be, need to caged and forced back into the deep back woods of East Texas. We don't need your types in West Texas!

diogenes said...

Sheldon and others, please enlighten us on how you plan to do things better with the same (or less) resources currently available.

Anonymous said...

Sheldon,

One hour a week is not enough - you put up or shut up - grab an application - you think we need you so bad.

Anonymous said...

I would imagine 303, that Sheldon could enlighten you in many areas, but your mental level would not accept what he has to offer. You seem far above others to accept advise from anyone.

Anonymous said...

You know I have found that views change once you've had feces thrown on you by a sex offender.... I'll leave you with that thought.

diogenes said...

I can handle it, 5:22, I just want to know how he thinks things should be done since he says he can do it much better. Not just Sheldon, but everyone else jumping in here fussing about this and that without offering anything useful in return. I'm just trying to sift through the crap and find an answer to how to do this job better.

And yes, it is a job, I do have bills to pay just like everyone else. I also happen to enjoy trying to help these youth turn their lives around and make something of themselves, not for the power trip, but just trying to help by using the talents and skills I've been given and able to develop to do something worthwhile with my life. Sheldon chooses to design/build things; I've chosen to try to help young people (not just here, but in various community and religious organizations as well). Both have merit. Both are needed by our society. Same for everyone else here who contributes to society in some way.

I am also frustrated by all the obstacles to my job, such as lack of resources & leadership, and an overabundance of political (non-expert) meddling. I'm sure Sheldon would feel the same way if he experienced the same at his job. Same for everyone else here.

Someone mentioned earlier that the line employees need to take charge and make it happen. I've yet to hear a reasonable plan as to how this is supposed to be accomplished. I've tried making this a better place for the past 3.5 years and haven't gotten very far.

But I digress. The question at hand is how to do things better. So let's define the parameters and get some answers.

So far all I've seen lately is "No
more money wasted on TYC!" Got it. This sounds like the main parameter, and has already been put in place by the "with the same or less resources currently available" part of my previous post.

So now for the questions:

Question 1: What do you want for these youths? Treatment, lock 'em up, or some blend of the two? We keep getting conflicting instructions here. Pick one and don't change your mind every 3 seconds. What plan / treatment model fits this best. Be specific.

Question 2: How do you plan to accomplish #1? Where will the youths be located? Who will work with them? What qualifications & training are required for these staff and supervisors?

Question 3: How much are you willing to pay for all this? How do you plan to pay for it? Remember: quality, speed, low cost; you can pick only two. Yes, the budget has limits, so we need to consider our priorities as well while we're here.

Question 4: How do we get there from here without making things worse?

These questions don't apply to just TYC, but to the whole spectrum of services and interventions needed to help prevent and/or fix juvenile delinquency. So far the governor & legislature hasn't been able to answer these questions and make it happen, so perhaps you can help them. They already ignored the Blue Ribbon Panel of experts, so maybe they'll listen to engineers and others completely outside of the field.

No, I haven't forgotten the role of TYC management, but if the gov/lege can get their act together, make a decision, and stick to it, they can fix the leadership in TYC, or recruit a new set willing to implement the new plan.

Don't forget the other agencies and organizations involved. We have a whole system involved, but people keep wanting to cheap out on each of the prevention stages (families, education, MHMR, community organizations, churches, and so on). Not everything has to come from the government, but they all have to come from the people somewhere along the line.

Others may have taken a sarcastic approach to my original question/post, but I mean it in all earnestness and seriousness. I want to know. How can we do this better? Are we willing to do this better?

So, what are your answers? I'm waiting and ready to take notes, ready to learn.

Oh, and if it's not too much trouble, please support your ideas with some semblance of backing in research, legality, and/or logic. We've had enough knee-jerking and chest-thumping to last us quite a while.

Enlighten me, please.

Anonymous said...

6:45,
I agree, if someone can tell me how to do this job better I am all for doing it.
I would love to continue with this job but rules change on a daily basis and everyone is confused on what we are supposed to be doing.
We are getting training and a day later they tell us we need to do it different.
The kids see the confusion and act out because they are confused.
They take away consequenses and wonder why we have a hard time controlling the kids.
Give us some guidelines and stick with them for a few months and we could see some progress.
Again, if someone can tell me how to help these kids I am all ears.

Anonymous said...

Central office administrators thoroughly demonstrated their lack of knowledge and clear disrespect for field staff and issues today. It was incredible. I can't believe our highest level administrators believed what they heard, did not check their facts. As soon as possible I am out.

Anonymous said...

907....not fair. We, other TYC employees would like to know what you are referring to? Were we all let down again by the Austin idiots?

Anonymous said...

Two items:
1. I believe it was Vickie Spriggs, who made the statement at the Sunset Commission hearing that rings truer than any of the other comments in this string. She said that in 1995, Steve Robinson (then ED of TYC) travelled around the state looking for large metropolitan araes to build facilities. The responses he received were a chorus of resounding "not in my back yard!!!" And the people of Pyote don't care about the rehabilitation, welfare and safety of the delinquent youth? Hmmmmmmmm.

2. To Mr. Henson and Mr./Dr. Bush - How much time have either of you spent in Pyote and what, besides the articles that have been written in the newspapers do you really know about the folks and the issues involved there? Why don't you two "experts" come to WTSS and try a little first hand experience in Texas juvenile justice. Then go to Evins, Gainesville, Mart, or any other facility and tell us again that Pyote is the new Gatesville. You weren't at WTSS in the Brookins era, I was, and it represented the worst that TYC could possibly become. And the actions of a few (who are no longer even at Pyote) have caused those of us who remained and tried to make things right, to be vilified at every opportunity by a bunch of headline grabbing government toadies in the lege and in the governor's office. You should be ashamed!

Anonymous said...

Since a lot of people on this string seem to be very upset with me, a couple of clarifications:

1. When I wrote "sounds like Pyote is the new Gatesville" I meant specifically in reference to Grits' post about the emphasis on jobs... it would be nearly impossible for the Pyote facility or any other one currently in operation to match the sordid, infamous, 80-plus year record of abuse at Gatesville. I shouldn't have been so glib with my words.

2. Having said that, many of the responses here sound eerily similar to the things that Gatesville locals, elected officials, and staff have said to rebut any outside criticism, many times in the past century.

For instance: Mocking any expertise beyond work experience (e.g., so-called "experts"), asserting that only staff could possibly have any meaningful insight into the problems of the juvenile justice system, and most importantly, hurling implied or explicit charges of "elitism" at critics - a form of victimology that distracts from the actual issue under discussion.

(By the way, I have never claimed to be an "expert" in anything but history. I have never suggested that I somehow know more than staff about day-to-day life in any facility currently being operated by TYC.)

3. I have never, and would never, make any kind of categorical statement about staff being "all sexual perverts" or "abusers" etc. Comb over everything I've ever written here in the past year, you won't find it. The vast majority of my criticisms of TYC have always been directed at administrators and policymakers, the ones with actual power (much more than me) whose decisions have put staff and youth together in unnecessarily difficult treatment environments.

4. I think Howard and others raise a very important obstacle to regionalization in re urban government's NIMBY. However, I don't think the solution is to throw up our hands and not put forth any effort. I don't think a facility needs to be in River Oaks or Westlake Hills or Alamo Heights, but it could be just outside an urban core and still serve the same purpose.

5. I am sure that it galls TYC staff to see us slamming the agency when our well-being isn't as directly affected by whatever happens next. But we aren't laughing about it in any way. I personally don't derive any pleasure at all from the idea that some good people might lose their jobs, or be forced to relocate and retrain and upend their lives.

But you must know that neither myself nor Scott wield a whole a lot of power over any of the decisions that affect your lives. Legislators are not calling me up for advice on which facility to close next. TYC administrators are not emailing me for suggestions on which employees should be fired.

I've said my piece, and I really wish rationality could return to these TYC threads. They have degenerated badly in the past several months such that I get the feeling Scott has been reluctant to write TYC-related posts... which is a shame. Pointless name-calling and finger-pointing isn't helping anyone.

Bill Bush

Anonymous said...

Sadly, there is no one who wants to work HARD to save these kids. You have to be mother, father, friend, priest and more to kids, who more than anyone else, have given up on themselves. These are still kids.

The pay is lousy, the conditions are on a daily basis filled with wishes for better times for these kids, and, for the workers, a better way to spend a day. This is not that kind of job. It takes dedication, a sense of accomplishment in the small ways.

I don't have fun in CO because the office is too busy fighting amongst themselves and a lege wanting to abolish them,... how can we save the kids? and that's our collective mission: to save the kids, somehow.

This world needs hope and prayers - whether or not you believe in God - that's the tiny task at hand.

Working in the TYC facilities is like living the life of a soldier. Everyone - the kids included - needs to be rotated every so often, have something to look forward to, have someone to look to for guidance and someone who will give them love and a second (third, fourth, 55th) chance(s).

I have to remember why I'm here in CO, for them. Not myself. I won't get rich being a State employee - no one does, really - cos it's a job. We need people and perspective, to make a commitment to this kind of work.

If I'm laid off, if I'm forced to do more work because there will be fewer of us, I want us to be united in compassion for the kids, for ourselves.

CO has some meanies who need to get off their pedestals and off their collective asses to solve the problem of getting these kids out of their individual funks and back into society, and into a home. If that costs us our jobs, or means we join forces with another agency so long as we're doing those kids a service, it will mean something in the end.

THis is what happens when you remove God from our schools, our families, our work, our lives. We will deserve what's coming to us if we don't repent and realize we're here for THEM.

May God bless the TYC staff who are with me, and may God have mercy on your souls if you aren't.

Anonymous said...

We'll take the WTSS staff here at Evins. We need more people to sell our cocaine to. Life and times are good in the Valley. It's cheap to live here, the local politicians look after us real good and the administration don't do nothing to us. There's too many of us and not enuff of them. We love it.

Anonymous said...

The SAD thing is everyone assumes these posts are written by TYC staff!!!!

I am sure those that keep making these assumptions are those highly educated ones who seem to know all but have little practical experience.

Merry Christmas to you all.

Anonymous said...

The Brookins/Hernandez scandel is the lege's WMDs. They've got a hidden agenda and they've used the scandel to promote it. Whether or not these men did what they are accused of, it will be the taxpayers that will be getting raped. There is no way to run a facility like WTSS in the city. It will cost more. They put the facilities where they did, because they are cheaper to run. The only reason the lege is wanting to close WTSS is so they can bring jobs to their community.

Anonymous said...

Jobs again. Its not jobs creation that TYC is about. The lege wants placements where safety and treatment can be given to youth. WTSS has demonstrated it can offer neither to youth. It sure can't protect youth, it uses/abuses youth out there in the desert, under the protection of being so desolate. The community and leadership showed they are only concerned with jobs...to hell with youth treatment! Reynolds isn't the only on who dropped the ball on the prosecutions, the whole district leadership did. Other leaders could have pushed for justice, but turned their heads and in some cases...appeared to help downplay the sexual abuse. Now your all child care lovers who want justice jor youth? How about those at the facility that also sat back and watched all this occur and be covered up? They are not all gone. A painted toilet is still a toilet.

Anonymous said...

I must agree with 120, there are some points of light here. Remember history and what goes around, comes around? I am reminded of a nice lady and her daughter, whom the youth cared for deeply. When she decided to not do the West Texas 'two step' and brought out some of the abuse and mistreatment there, she was victimized, also. She and her daughter were determined to be unable to do the dance properly. There are others who also could not stay in step and were vilified by the institution, some locals, who were also mislead and even the local media seemed in need of glasses. Now, it appears the judge is even being mislead, even though he appears to be a decent person, just uninformed, like some other locals, actually only concerned for jobs and not effective youth management. You come down on Bill for being concerned about youth, when he actually cares about criminal justice; as others misuse it. When others become involved and have power to change things, it seems to make the 'two steppers' want to change dances, after the dance hall has been closed. Perhaps those in charge had too many beers and their direction and focus caused them to 'step step' too long, when the waltz was the correct dance. The West Texas two step has caused many good employees to leave the agency and, this dance has hurt many, many youth that deserved better. What goes around does, in deed come around. One makes their own beds, you might say.

Happy Holidays

Anonymous said...

last two posters. It's a load of feculance of male bovine. What the hell are you talking about?

Anonymous said...

TYC had a superintendent with a degree in Forestry. NOW, it appears there is one with a degree in Horticulture. And then one wonders why we are in such a awkard and losing position with the lege and community!

Anonymous said...

The degree is a non-issue and in my experience only brought up by people with a degree who feel slighted because he/she feels he/she were overlooked for a promotion the believed they deserved.

Anonymous said...

yOU ARE SAYING ADMINISTRATORS WITHOUT ANY SOCIAL DEGREE/UNDERSTANDING OF JUVENILES, ETC, IS ok? nO WONDER, FOLKS LIKE YOU HAVE RUINED tyc AND INSURED YOUTH RECEIVED NO TREATMENT, BUT PLENTY OF INJURY AND SEX ABUSE. yOU ARE AN IDIOT, DOUBLED OVER.

Anonymous said...

722 AND 1048: You must be the same poster, since you display a lack of comprehension of institutional talk and don't realize that juveniles are supposed to be provided treatment to divert them from the adult system. Are you a high school drop out in charge of the institution dump? You'd be better off on welfare, with similar kin.

Anonymous said...

I think ideally the appropriate staff would have both line experience and a degree. However, if a person does have a degree then the major does not matter. Administrators do not have to be experts in all areas either, only proficient and well rounded and a good manager of people. A"master" of bringing staff together, allowing them to do their jobs and completing group, campus, facility and organizational goals.

If the major of any degree were the only indicator at how well somone good do something how come we have Air Force Pilots with degrees in music?

Anonymous said...

There's an old saying: "Those that can, do; those that can't, teach; and those who can't teach, teach others to teach." It is not really fair to many teachers, but it is often true, in fact, especially true with the Social Work field.

Anonymous said...

Maybe you should ask some of the folks that were ripped of by Madoff. They lost billions. So, you say anyone can run something they know little about? Should teachers not specialize, then or professors? Your reasoning is without reason. Your thinking brought TYC to the depth of ineptness it now enjoys. And by the way pilots are robots, not needing social skills, except for the local club.

Anonymous said...

There are many people who have been very successful in the private sector who do not have degrees in the specialized field where they work... and if you think pilots are robots, you have never flown a plane, much less a high performance combat jet.

Anonymous said...

Without exception, the absolutely worst caseworkers I ever supervised while at TYC were social workers. Don't overgeneralize that point, but that was my experience. I grieves me to see what TYC has become.

Anonymous said...

10:48 to 12:21 p.m.

No twas the first post of the day... and thanks "1:47" you made my point.

I have met many people with degrees who are not suited towards their field. Ex... Counselors lacking interpersonal skills, Psychologists who can't administer or understand the results of psychometric tests or properly diagnosis.

I agree with the comment about social workers. Most social work is about coordinating services not providing actual therapy.

I have known Ph.D's (GH anyone) who befuddle me as to how they ever put together or defended a doctoral thesis.

It is also my experience that those who often would make the best managers in TYC are the one's who lust for it the least. Often those who should manage remain in the background due to the cut-throat political environment in the agency or get frustrated and move on to the private sector. Leaving those behind who eventually give credence the Peter Principle i.e "In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His/Her Level of Incompetence."

A degree simply indicates that a person has been taught how to learn but is not indicative of his or her continued desire to do so.

I am greatly saddened by TYC's current state of affairs but the writing was on the wall...since many administrators and newer employees remembered little of Morales vs. Turman and thus were doomed to repeat old mistakes.

Anonymous said...

Many people,managers and administrators and the Austin leadership, were warned about abuse and mistreatment years before the bubble burst. Some of these people should be held accountable for inaction on their part to stop the destruction of TYC.

Anonymous said...

9:10pm all those people you refer to are gone unless you know more than the rest of us?

Anonymous said...

The TYC theme..."all the bad guys are gone"; same answer. No, they are not all gone, but continue to play your game and see how the public reacts, now.

Anonymous said...

Common sense, ethics and morals trumps degree (I don't care what kind) 100% of the time. Those fancy degrees may look good on the wall but they don't teach you how to deal with TYC kids in any graduate or undergraduate program. I too, agree that the WORST CWs I supervised had degrees in Social Work.

Anonymous said...

I am amazed at the comments that refer to The Abuse as if it was/is isolated. The faces may have changed but the corruption, abuse and cover-ups are still alive and well. Just because a large group of the old regime is gone, doesn't mean anything. There are TYC staff who are still just as corrupt and cut-throat and there are more staff than ever who are so VERY CONFUSED because the NEW group of administrators don't have a clue!

Anonymous said...

Well said 112; Many TYC people would like to see the past disappear. What is most bothering, is the ones who try so hard to fool the public that are is well, are the ones most likely still involved in abuse and mismanagement. Its engrained in TYC and has not improved much in the last two years....it may even be worse. Until TYC is forced to be unfront with current issues, the public and lege will see TYC go down in abusive flames.

Anonymous said...

I have worked for plenty of Superintendents, the most inspiring, knowledgeable, ethical and people oriented ones were those that started off from the bottom and worked their way to the top - spending time in all areas of the facility.

I agree that there are individuals that need improvement but we have to take a look at the process TYC uses to chose to use in selecting their leaders. Until recently there has been little time developing the next CM's,PA'S, DOS's and Asst. Superintendents on up. This will soon change

Several inviduals in key positions were appointed and did not see themselves in that position but stepped up in a time of need.

Be fair whe you lay blame

Anonymous said...

Well presented. However The TYC has its favored administratots lined up at all times. The suck-ups are for sure promotions while the others-possibles can be canned, at will, just like the past. TYC is so tainted, only a thorough cleanining of the current administrators/managers, will allow a real clean/TYC to move on. The smell of the past corruption is on most current employees, because they became a part of it. Slop to slop. Ashes to ashes.

Anonymous said...

In addition to TYC, West Texans (and other rural communities) also view prisons, nuclear and toxic waste storage facilities, miltary bases, etc., as jobs programs. Treatment providers are at a premium out west, but are available (if they are compensated fairly). In the early '90's, Pyote had CDTP, SOTP, anger management, an independent living program and Cognitive Life Skills. All of that died with some really bad decision making on the part of the Ron Jackson era "good ol' boys" and the "get tough on juvenile crime" doctrine of the Bush years. Punishment vs. rehabilitation. As for the locations of these facilities, the lege and TYC decide where they go, not the community. They offer to provide TYC et al, with certain "incentives" (among them, a viable applicant pool to staff the facility, breaks on utility rates, low rent) to locate there. Sounds like a jobs program to me. And please keep in mind that larger urban areas have been historically reluctant to have these facilities located in or near them. The Hamilton facility is an illustration of being located in a more populated area (Bryan/College Station) that could not adequately staff the facility and was eventually closed. And as far as being the kids being closer to home for parental involvement, you have only to look at weekend and holiday visitation numbers around the state to know that the vast majority of parents do not care about their kids who are locked up. Evins is an example of what happens when you consolidate too many kids from the same area. Look at the violence, the gang activity, the drugs, etc. The saddest part of this equation is the staff who remained are still being blamed for what Brookins and Hernandez did there and for the failure of the judicial system to follow through with prosecuting them. And to thisd day, the powers that be, in Austin, rarely show any interest in WTSS, its staff or its fate. If we are going to be closed, stop talking and do it. It won't change a thing. Until the recycling of the old school TYC exec's and the influx of high dollar so-called experts stops, what you see is what you get. Has anyone seen my $250 Tiffany paper weight?

Anonymous said...

8:42...
"Most" current staff are corrupt? Really? That is extremely sad to read.

Anonymous said...

Y'all need to go read the new post about the Gainesville football team.

Anonymous said...

Someone finally kicked Judge Parks in the butt! He may set the trail date in the next few years. Closure? Fair judges? Local support?

Anonymous said...

Reality WTSS, the legislators did not fund your campus. Why continue with, we don't know our fate?
Yes you do, not saying it's a good thing but when your survival is based upon resources that are not available what do you propose, a hand out from the FED's, I hear their handing money out.
It's only a matter of time and the wise man would look elsewhere or wait to be RIF'd

Anonymous said...

8:53, unless you can prove what you are stating, keep your blogs to yourself!! What goes around comes around and it may be you that gets the axe~

Anonymous said...

Prove what, that no money was appropriated for WTSS? The LBB has this on their website, once again why get defensive or act like you do not know of this? Everyone knows this except those few who wish to keep their heads buried in the sand and hope this will all go away, but it will not.

Anonymous said...

605: Its not that hard. Bend over; grab each ear with each hand, then pull until your head withdraws from your butt. Check the site quoted. Use your head properly. Check the want adds.

Anonymous said...

To 11:50 and 8:43,

Since you think you are so knowlegeable on the subject of who's getting the axe and who isn't (based on current funding)...chew on this:

January 13th begins a new legislative session (AKA the 81st Texas Legislative Session.) Just in case you didn't know, a new Texas legislative session occurs every two years where CHANGES to agency operations DO OCCUR as a result of decisions made during these sessions ...and YES, that includes the Texas Youth Commission.

Something else you may not know is that the Legislative Budget Board (LBB) is a permanent joint committee of the Texas Legislature whose job is to develop recommendations for legislative appropriations ($$$$$) for all agencies of state government...and again, YES that includes the Texas Youth Commission AND it's existing facilities. Funding of TYC operations may VERY WELL change from what was proposed during the last session.

The bottom line is this:
What YOU are so sure will happen to WTSS (and VFCA, also not funded past 8/09) could change, so stop spewing negative crap to the people who work at those locations, myself included.

You aren't helping ANYONE by spouting off negative information that you only THINK you know.

Follow the lege, learn something, and above all else...shut the hell up and go spread some cheer instead of more bullsh*t.

Let's have a HAPPY NEW YEAR shall we?

Anonymous said...

422: You must be one of those that is misleading employees on the spot....at work. Do't quit...I'll save your job....wait more until I tell you to leave. How will you feel when you poor advise causes many to not get jobs, they could have, if they didn't listen to you. You must be in management and are looking out for yourself! You don't want to have to fill in for all the coming vacancies? Live in the real world. Don't mislead those folks out there any more than you already have. You've been promised a job by austin, so you can afford to mislead the lower crumb snatchers?

Anonymous said...

8:06, I'm not misleading anyone. I did not make up anything I said about the legislative process...I only stated facts.

Yes, I know we are not budgeted past 8/09, and yes, I know our facility may close soon, but I happen to like my job enough to stick with it. There are many WTSS and VFCA employees who already left because they believe we are going to close...I'm just not one of them. I'm staying for the long or short haul, whichever one occurs.

No, I do not believe Austin has made any attempts to deceive us, in fact, we have already been told that "right sizing" was on the agenda after the first of January, and that difficult decisions would have to be made.

I am not trying to convince anyone to stay. It's a free country and my coworkers can do as they please. Everyone who remains working at WTSS and VFCA is well aware of what may happen; after all it's been talked about for almost two years now.

Let's just say I am prepared for whatever happens...with or without your approval.

Anonymous said...

I think it was Hiler, who said about the same thing; as he took his own citizens to their demise.

Anonymous said...

11:59 a.m.

I have been reading your posts and while I believe that your point about forewarning about WTSS to be a valid concern you weaken your argument by making small minded comments about those with dissenting opinions.

Comparing 12:34 a.m. to Hitler...you must be an angry, angry, person to so glibly compare another to one of the greatest mass murderer's in history.

You have made your point...let it go, if you can.

Anonymous said...

Thank you 1:41...You really nailed it!! I agree that the Hitler comment was a bit extreme. I hope the angry commenter eventually finds peace.

Anonymous said...

It appears that some who smoke the truth would rather have nonsense and reader balls , than than truth. Its like everyone who dissents is labed as 'digruntled'. This makes some people move to more extreme actions. What do you people want......extreme actions, since there is no solution?

Anonymous said...

Lots of people who died in the camps of the Nazi, were dumped on before their final fates, for voicing their opion of the activities on going in Germany. Many stated they are over acting... they are extremists, they are angry! How would you have felt as you watched your family marched into the gas chanbers? You are all so innocent and gullible. When the flames are hot, even you may be forced to move your position.

Anonymous said...

OK, now you are starting worry me in a "branch davidian/ruby ridge" kind of way.

Are you now implying you are a victim/martyr...

Dissent is fine and good but tangential loose associations are another thing.

Please seek professional help at your local MHMR or hospital. If you are under professional care please resume your medications or see your psychiatrist for adjustment in medication. Have you tried risperdal consta....

Anonymous said...

Is this the typical TYC psy..answer for anything? You people are a joke. You pretend that anyone who disagrees with your half/educated/akward wanna be doctor/comments, is the problem. Sit on your own couch, if you even have one and ask youeself "should i place the barrell in my mouth before I pull the...", or just go to work for TYC again and play i help youth tomorrow? Tragic, but try to find the right answer. Oh, Happy New Years.

Anonymous said...

No, don't work for TYC and yes I do find your comments disturbing and and indicative of deeply troubled and disturbed individual.

Anonymous said...

9:46 is the latest post by an individual who clutters up almost every TYC string going. It's pretty easy to recognize his writing style, and his habit of throwing out non-specific insults and insinuations with no facts to back them up.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if everyone ignores this person's "easy to recognize" comments, he or she will quit making them. That's what I am doing.

It's kind of like when you feed a stray dog; they just keep coming back for more.

Anonymous said...

Maybe if everyone ignores this person's "easy to recognize" comments, he or she will quit making them. That's what I am doing.

It's kind of like when you feed a stray dog; they just keep coming back for more.

Anonymous said...

Although what I just said WAS worth repeating, that wasn't my intention...

Anonymous said...

If the poster you are referring to does have a problem, you certainly are not helping with your snide remarks about his/her posts. Why don't you offer something that may help the individual, rather than feed into him?

Anonymous said...

I am 6:40, and was responding to 10:38, so I'm not entirely alone here. There was nothing snide about what I said. I was trying to be very straightforward. And I would like to provide a rebuttal to his comments, but they are too nebulous. Meanwhile, HIS "snide" comments imply widespread corruption and criminal negligence and I don't agree. (The original post was about the motives of the people of Pyote for wanting to keep the facility there, which then devolved into the motives of TYC employees at WTSS who are control-seekers, based on someone's conversation at visitation! What a ride!)

The comments from our anonymous poster insult every TYC employee, then and now. I'm bothered because many people believe most of what they read. I can never tell what his problem is or his real reason for posting, so how can anyone help him? He seems to know better than to risk using names. Meanwhile, what sort of contribution is HE making? Maybe he'll tell us whether he is or ever was a TYC staff member.

Otherwise, I'll take the advice provided here, though, and return to ignoring him/her.

Anonymous said...

My how this post can role. Some of y’all went all the way back to tyc cover up master Jackson, who was so vital in maintaining the child abusive culture while attempting to bring rural route tyc into civilized times. Prior to Jackson, dumb ass red necks could abuse children at will, Morales vs Turman, and no one knew any better.
While others on this post compared what tyc’s culture is doing to the children of Texas as that of hitler. Although as much as the tyc culture would like to think and as hard as the tyc culture has worked to outdo the atrocities hitler perpetrated on European Jewry and others, the tyc culture still has a ways to go, Gd Forbid
Look folks this 120 year old culture needs to be fixed. You empire builders need to cut the crap. Train your grunts and remove your disgrunts. It’s expensive to keep a kid locked up, 67k, so get the right folks in there and let’s get the recidivism rate down, and I mean the one where all the former tyc kids are included in the calculation. That’s right, even the kids whom you people have graduated to tdc that are not included in your recidivism rate calculation. It would be a lot higher than any 50% which is embarrassing enough. I wouldn’t have my job very long if I was 50% right all the time. Your culture causes you people to suck at fixing troubled kids, you people suck big time at fixing troubled kids.

I remember what your tyc culture taught me when someone was dirty and did not want to clean themselves. We got some bippy and a bristle brush and got that nasty thing clean. Perhaps tyc needs to have some State Boys get some bippy and a bristle brush and get you people cleaned up.
I’m speaking metaphorically so let’s not get a rumor started that state boys armed with bippy and a scrub brush are attacking poor defenseless tyc emps.

Sheldon tyc#47333
oldSchool@IronGuardiansnt.org
Gatesville State School for Boys former student reunion Gatesville Texas June 2009

Anonymous said...

"You people?"

I don't think TYC employees should be categorized like that anymore than TYC youth...we are all different people you know. Just what do you mean by "you people" anyway?

There has been someone trashing this blog site lately who uses the term "you people" an awful lot. I sure wouldn't want to sound like that person if I were you...or is that you? Sure hope not...

Anonymous said...

"as much as the tyc culture would like to think and as hard as the tyc culture has worked to outdo the atrocities hitler perpetrated" What?? Say that again, Sheldon??!!

Anonymous said...

Well we kinda of sorta got the news today that we (WTSS) will most likely close in the next few months. I guess all of the negatives from the Brookins/Hernandez scandal did us in, it's sad to think that all those that could have stopped this are able to maintain their jobs and not go to jail. But what am I saying, Brookins and Hernandez are not in jail, Happy New Year

Anonymous said...

Yea that was a tough call to point out the hitler stuff. Not sure why a previous poster did the comparison, perhaps like our terrorist enemy’s who deny the holocaust happened “you people” at tyc like to cover up and deny child abuse happens. In the 2 years, 1975-1977, I was at Terrace school I found that 99% of the emps were abusive 99% of the time in some way. It’s the culture. Many of the former tyc inmates that I have spoken with in the last several months who are free now but who were in the tyc culture within the last decade and as recent as several months ago have lead me to believe the child abuse perpetrated by “you people” has gotten worse than it was in the so called “bad ol days”. Prior to what "you people" refer to as the so called “bad ol days”, was pre Morales v Turman and those were really bad old days.
btw, During my time there I ran the store so I pretty much got away with what ever since I could afford to purchase favor from the day to day emps that were supposed to be in charge of me. Most kids there were truly throw away kids and the ‘you people’, ie dorm men, school supervisors, case-un-workers and yes even the matrons were free to abuse away. The teachers seemed to really care but we weren’t in school all that much. The “you people” made it clear we were not to be educated.

I like using the term “you people” because it’s a politically correct way to denigrate a group of people who in this case continue to directly or indirectly support some type of group disfunctionality like an institutional culture that profits from child abuse. The phrase ‘you people’, in my experience, always shakes up the guilty when its implemented in a dialog. Generally I implement the “you people” phrase when speaking to a department that has issues, the guilty parties will be offended and complain therefore I know who to fire. I use it as a trigger word with a very high rate of success. So anonymous 12/30/2008 1:51 am you should be fired.

Congratulations WTSS emps now you do not have to be employed in a culture known for child abuse, may you speedily find a more rewarding job. Heres to you health

Something I learned in tyc is not to be a punk, stand up for what you believe, let your yes be yes and no be no. I did not want to be like my captors whos actions showed how to act in a dishonorable way so you won’t see me sign out anonymously.

Hope I was able to address the hitler comparison and the “you people” trigger word. Any questions, email me, and I will be happy to dialog as time permits.
Sheldon tyc#47333 c/s
oldSchool@IronGuardiansnt.org
Gatesville State School for Boys former student reunion Gatesville Texas June 2009

Anonymous said...

The idea that all TYC employees are "you people" would leave me to believe that all TYC youth like yourself are punks based upon your inability to realize that not all staff any any given place can be labeled the same.

I guess if "Parents" acted like parents and did their job TYC would not assist? But, instead we have the Sheldon's running around looking for some vindication for the past that will never be addressed on this blog.

Sorry to hear about WTSS, too bad they have to close, wish you luck

Anonymous said...

Sheldon, I worked for TYC for nearly 9 years and I can say I never physically or emotionally abused a youth in my care. I can also say that the majority of the staff I worked with did not abuse youth either. If I saw mistreatment of youth I confronted it and when appropriate (ex, denying kid toilet paper vs. physical abuse) reported it.

To compare the staff and the situations in TYC to Hitler and mass genocide is absurd. The incidents as WTSS are atrocities in themselves and the response by upper administration was poor but to blanket all of TYC and it employees is wrong.

I am sorry if you were mistreated at Gatesville but stop making such inane comparisons. Also, I find it hard not to believe that you are not the same poster who brought up Hitler in the first place.

Anonymous said...

Sheldon, this is 1:51. FYI, I am a teacher, and I have a reputation for caring A LOT about TYC youth that I have upheld for many, many years. I am aware that there are TYC employees who don't treat kids right, but I can assure you I am not one of them. The point I was trying to make is that the term "you people" is offensive, and no, it does not mean I am guilty of anything. You are jumping to conclusions on that one. I am truly sorry that you had a bad experience at TYC, but blaming everyone who works for the agency just isn't fair. Some of us really do care.

Anonymous said...

Sheldon, I am 1:58. I appreciate your response. I read the string again, and actually, you were not the first to bring up Hitler -- it was our Stray Dog who did that. We have come to discount everything the Stray says, so don't let him/her be your leader. You won't learn anything at all about present-day TYC from that person.

Anonymous said...

I work for TYC and am bothered by the phrase "you people" and have never abused a youth and am disliked by some staff due to my proclivity for reporting even the most minor of youth rights violations. I don't know that your "trigger" phrase always hits the right target.

If you weren't in school very often then your TYC looks nothing like the current one.

The culture of TYC today, at least where I work, is nothing like that where you were. The ridiculousness of your incarceration, for issues like truancy, were duly noted by the courts. Is there no better vindication?

Anonymous said...

We, "you people" are not always well represented on this blog. There appear to be a bunch of trolls who claim to be from this place or that place, and who are probably ex-employees who have nothing better to do than vent their spleen. Please don't judge us all by these trolls. Most of us, "you people" really do care about the kids, and put up with incredible abuse because we believe in what we are about. When I say incredible abuse, I don't mean from the kids. Kids do what kids do. The real abuse comes from the politicians, and the poplace that supports them, who thing "you people" are a bunch of misfits who delight in making life miserable for kids.

Anonymous said...

Excuse me, I meant to type "who think..." rather than "who thing..."

Anonymous said...

Go to Hell Sheldon - how dare you say that to people that might lose their jobs - you are low class

Anonymous said...

2 quotes for Sheldon:

1. Time spent in anger is time wasted.

2. To forgive is to heal yourself.