tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post1086544829392724775..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Speak for Yourself: FLDS voices trickling into the blogosphere in response to YFZ raid; most Grits readers say 'send kids home'Gritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger71125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-81046482950210040942011-10-25T10:44:06.841-05:002011-10-25T10:44:06.841-05:00I just noticed this comment by Grits:
"As fo...I just noticed this comment by Grits:<br /><br /><i>"As for Doran's comments, bluesman has told us what kind of law he practices (representing cops in civil service disputes) which narrows his identity to a handful of lawyers in the state (nearly all men, btw). If I cared to take an educated guess I could parse it a little closer from a few specific comments, but folks who do that for a living have a certain 'defend state authority' perspective that's pretty well ingrained."</i><br /><br />Unless it is shown that there were other "personas" behind the name TxBluesMan, HE has been absolutely and firmly identified, and he's not a she nor is he a lawyer. Any "representation" he provided to others is either a lie, a misdirection followed, or not of the legal/formal variety.Hugh McBrydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16926516260588481185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-27827956817578836352008-05-19T05:24:00.000-05:002008-05-19T05:24:00.000-05:00"It's sad that it took such a tragedy to bring FLD..."It's sad that it took such a tragedy to bring FLDS voices out into the open"<BR/><BR/>Actually what is sad is it took a tragedy like this for people to even realize there was another side, not named "escape"Pliggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13093939505833710898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-38975751027283325082008-05-17T08:59:00.000-05:002008-05-17T08:59:00.000-05:00I'm glad I found this blog, I'll probably come bac...I'm glad I found this blog, I'll probably come back after the FLDS mess is history, until then, it provides the clearest voice.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad I'm not litigating this one on either side.Stephenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00219023897626648057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-80214183800784827312008-05-16T23:08:00.000-05:002008-05-16T23:08:00.000-05:00"His sister, Flora Holm, fled the FLDS cult and he..."His sister, Flora Holm, fled the FLDS cult and he proceeded to repeatedly harass her until she finally told him not to contact her anymore."<BR/><BR/>Ha Ha Ha That made me laugh! <BR/>My sister's name is Fawn, and I never contacted her once except through her mother. (Not that I wouldn't want to.) I definately never harassed her. <BR/><BR/>She was born prematurely on my 14th birthday, and she and her mother were both in ICU when I went to see them in the hospital. Her mother whispered to me with tubes hanging out of her mouth "Happy Birthday, Al" <BR/><BR/>Man, I miss my childhood.Pliggyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13093939505833710898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53240094993326577302008-05-16T17:14:00.000-05:002008-05-16T17:14:00.000-05:00New stuff. CPS's behavior just gets stinkier and ...New stuff. CPS's behavior just gets stinkier and stinkier:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5785092.html" REL="nofollow">Disputed minors taken from state foster homes to undergo videotaped law enforcement interviews without legal counsel</A><BR/><BR/>And a little good news:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.gosanangelo.com/news/2008/may/16/court-allows-sect-mother-allowed-to-stay-with/?show_comments=1#comments" REL="nofollow">Court allows Pamela Jessop to stay with both her children</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-66472235390074990292008-05-16T12:55:00.001-05:002008-05-16T12:55:00.001-05:00Under your plan you'd prolly have a LOT MORE work,...Under your plan you'd prolly have a LOT MORE work, IF there was any <BR/>successful way of policing the police AND holding them accountable for violations!<BR/><BR/>Add "conspiracy to" in the mix and you'd need lots of help.<BR/><BR/>In your plan, is it permitted for us to violate their rights to prove they violated others?<BR/><BR/>This "plan" may be an entire new industry before we're done!kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-39906503277038690932008-05-16T12:55:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:55:00.000-05:00Bluesy, the Constitution sure doesn't include chap...Bluesy, the Constitution sure doesn't include chapter 143 of the local government code! I think your job's still constitutionally questionable. ;)<BR/><BR/>KBP, I emailed you the file, see what you can do with it. I also put up a new post based on one new, important fact bite from it.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-5350493652125905192008-05-16T12:44:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:44:00.000-05:00Fred said:”There is no provision in the Consitutio...Fred said:<BR/><BR/><I>”There is no provision in the Consitution for a police force. Under Tx's plan, he will be out of job.”</I><BR/><BR/>Surprising me not in the least, you’re wrong.<BR/><BR/>Art. V, Sec 23 provides for the election of Sheriffs. Art. V, Sec. 18 provides for the election of constables, and Art. XVI, Sec 61 provides for the compensation of deputies. So under my plan, I would still have work....TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-85934993955015450192008-05-16T12:40:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:40:00.000-05:00Another thought;Maybe someone could convert it to ...Another thought;<BR/><BR/>Maybe someone could convert it to Word.kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-55317832217333862842008-05-16T12:37:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:37:00.000-05:00Would The Smoking Gun post it? Somebody from one ...Would The Smoking Gun post it? Somebody from one of the news sites that's been covering this?Headmistress, zookeeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071449326819510530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-49431643885009475172008-05-16T12:29:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:29:00.000-05:00Could go to any free storage space on the web and ...Could go to any free storage space on the web and give us the address.<BR/><BR/>They all upload load slow, but the downloads are better!<BR/><BR/>If I was not leaving soon for camping this weekend, I'd offer one of my email addresses to share it with any that wanted it.<BR/><BR/>But, that's a bit like <I>"if we had eggs, we could have bacon & eggs, if we had bacon'!</I><BR/><BR/>I don't have the PDF!kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-59142025851328084082008-05-16T12:04:00.000-05:002008-05-16T12:04:00.000-05:00Interesting indeed! Does anybody have a place to p...Interesting indeed! <BR/><BR/>Does anybody have a place to post a PDF document? I'm afraid I don't. It's kind of big - 2,259KB - but well worth it. It's a habeas petition from Gerry Goldstein for some of the monogamous FLDS moms. If you do, email me.<BR/><BR/>In any event, I'll write up some of the juicy parts soon.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-21588100017937815592008-05-16T11:33:00.000-05:002008-05-16T11:33:00.000-05:00Grits,I just sent you an e-mail containing an inte...Grits,<BR/><BR/>I just sent you an e-mail containing an interesting document.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-18869678581564737982008-05-16T11:09:00.000-05:002008-05-16T11:09:00.000-05:00Morning grits,Caught just a snip of a tv news item...Morning grits,<BR/><BR/>Caught just a snip of a tv news item (Thurs eve) stating TX will or may keep custody of the kids through APRIL '09.<BR/><BR/>I do not expect the majority of parents involved to recover their children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-35861117769454102512008-05-16T10:45:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:45:00.000-05:00HM, That is "rich"-er if you quote more showing th...HM, <BR/>That is "rich"-er if you quote more showing the context:<BR/><BR/><I>"On Thursday, state lawyers acknowledged that Mr. Jessop’s wife, Louisa, is 22 and should never have been taken into state custody with the ranch’s children.<BR/><BR/>“We’re not psychic,” said CPS lawyer Michael Shulman. “We can’t just look at people and say, ‘You’re of age, you can go.’.”</I> <BR/><BR/>So basically, the great state of Texas firmly believes all should be given the opportunity, eventually, to prove their innocence!kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-41387947571063185502008-05-16T10:36:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:36:00.000-05:00“We’re not psychic”Now I understand!They are ALL p...<I>“We’re not psychic”</I><BR/><BR/>Now I understand!<BR/><BR/>They are ALL prisoners because the CPS doesn't have the ability to do the "looksy age test".<BR/><BR/>While not accepting ANY ID methods, until DNA testing confirms the parentage to those they do accept the ID method from, ALL possible minors are held until they give birth and THEN the ID method is acceptable.<BR/><BR/>Much clearer now!kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11817449287654342252008-05-16T10:31:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:31:00.000-05:00HMI found it, Thanks!Public Notice of May 12, 2008...HM<BR/>I found it, Thanks!<BR/><A HREF="http://myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html" REL="nofollow">Public Notice of May 12, 2008</A>kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-49977727960753438932008-05-16T10:30:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:30:00.000-05:00Sorry, here's the link:myeldorado.netI've also pos...Sorry, here's the link:<BR/><A HREF="http://myeldorado.net/Pages/LegalNotices.html" REL="nofollow">myeldorado.net</A><BR/><BR/>I've also posted the list to my blog, where it's numbered to make it easier to keep track of things.<BR/><BR/>And there's another story on Louisa Jessop which includes this absolutely rich quote:<BR/><I>“We’re not psychic,” said CPS lawyer Michael Shulman. “We can’t just look at people and say, ‘You’re of age, you can go.’</I><BR/><BR/> <A HREF="http://www.dentonrc.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/texassouthwest/stories/051608texpolygamist.10427ddf8.html" REL="nofollow">Dallas news reports</A>Headmistress, zookeeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071449326819510530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79235200438439015312008-05-16T10:22:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:22:00.000-05:00The CPS / State has used that "# 2902 IN THE INTER...The CPS / State has used that <I>"# 2902 IN THE INTEREST OF 330 CHILDREN FROM THE YFZ RANCH"</I> as their legal "catch-all" in most filings.<BR/><BR/>It evidently permits them to shuffle the count and add or subtract as they see fit, in their all-are-guilty / single household case.<BR/><BR/>Do you have a link to this notice? or is it the original Petition notice?kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-45944435207756052612008-05-16T10:15:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:15:00.000-05:00It's awfully hard to keep these stories straight. ...It's awfully hard to keep these stories straight. I guess the last link I posted may have been about an entirely different couple. <BR/><BR/>This link tells us that <A HREF="http://www.keyetv.com/content/news/topnews/story.aspx?content_id=b93e776d-0e0c-4257-a95c-88105079aeff" REL="nofollow">"CPS can't separate toddler from FLDS parents", </A> while the article goes on to indicate the ruling was about the child being the one that just turned one YO.<BR/><BR/>A bit of a B***** slap on Walthers "12 month nursing" order / ruling.kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44022116346697986952008-05-16T10:13:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:13:00.000-05:00The Eldorado Success has posted a list of children...The Eldorado Success has posted a list of children in a legal notice the state is issuing to all the parents. Maybe somebody else can figure out the math.<BR/>It lists, by name, 125 children. Then it says:<BR/># 2902 IN THE INTEREST OF 330 CHILDREN FROM THE YFZ RANCH<BR/><BR/># 2903 IN THE INTEREST OF 16 CHILDREN FROM THE YFZ RANCH<BR/><BR/>I can't figure out any way these numbers add up to what the state has claimed they have in custody.Headmistress, zookeeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071449326819510530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-18823152343033862002008-05-16T10:10:00.000-05:002008-05-16T10:10:00.000-05:00She is in a slightly better situation than the oth...She is in a slightly better situation than the other nursing mothers. She also gets to stay with her other two children.Headmistress, zookeeperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14071449326819510530noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-12171886043644879422008-05-16T09:58:00.000-05:002008-05-16T09:58:00.000-05:00This head line, "State lets sect woman keep her ba...This head line, <A HREF="http://www.sltrib.com/polygamy/ci_9273575" REL="nofollow">"State lets sect woman keep her baby"</A>, leads to an article lacking details on the topic.<BR/><BR/>Uncertain WTH there is that indicates she gets to keep the baby. Reads like she would be in the same boat as all other mothers nursing their babies that are under 12 months old.kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-24458084364521561832008-05-16T09:39:00.000-05:002008-05-16T09:39:00.000-05:00On second thought, I should back up and admit I do...On second thought, I should back up and admit I do not know what all the INTERVIEWS (some or all in the Affidavits?) provided,<BR/><BR/>It was not clear in all of them who the source was, meaning age, etc... There could possibly have been some select instances that a few specific girls could have been taken into custody using the "looksy age test" and interviews records, but the redactions make it difficult for me to be certain.<BR/><BR/>If that combination of evidence was sufficient in any particular situations there, it still lacked covering all the children taken.<BR/><BR/>If I give weight to the claims we've seen made by defense attorneys, the evidence that supports such was not "particularized" enough, so I'd have to stick with the position taken in my last comment.kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51593488091570193632008-05-16T09:24:00.000-05:002008-05-16T09:24:00.000-05:00I felt this comment should be separate of the last...I felt this comment should be separate of the last, though somewhat related.<BR/><BR/>Regarding evidence given at the 14 Day Hearing, from what I know of it, it actually was not really sufficient for any of the children taken, IMO. Not a single bit of evidence or any cases cited (here or at the hearing) shows how that ranch can legally be transformed into a single residence that ALL 464 children were being abused in.<BR/><BR/>They had to use the Bishop's Records to show some bad or unlawful acts it could possibly have indicated took place, acts that do not qualify as any which allows them to take the children, while IGNORING the fact those same records indicated there were multiple separate units on the YFZ Ranch the various families lived in (see after Page 40). <BR/><BR/>Voss told of all the underage girls with children or pregnant, and later under cross (I believe it was cross) she told that the "underage" applied to all households (she worded it differently). <BR/><BR/>Now, if that was to cover what's needed under <I>2. the child has been the victim of sexual abuse</I> (thanks Grits), one would certainly want better proof than the infamous "CPS looksy age test" all their workers have mastered.kbphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11814695387546108048noreply@blogger.com