tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post1583114477632698486..comments2024-03-15T05:45:01.402-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Austin lags on important third component of graffiti policyGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-32460421960738047392008-07-30T02:19:00.000-05:002008-07-30T02:19:00.000-05:00I never said ignore the crime. OTOH, your retort a...I never said ignore the crime. OTOH, your retort about why don't they paint their own house, etc., may make you feel better but simply contributes nothing toward a solution. <BR/><BR/>Cities are pursuing the enforcement only approach now. If you think the outcome is satisfactory, then there's no need to do anything more. If you think current anti-graffiti approaches AREN'T working, which is the general consensus, maybe it's time to try something else.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-753378497654774452008-07-29T23:07:00.000-05:002008-07-29T23:07:00.000-05:00In my previous post, I should have said that leavi...In my previous post, I should have said that leaving tags up would invite "other" or "additional" crime. I would not want to leave the impression that tagging is not a crime, because it is. Any time you damage someone else's property, you've committed a crime, and I really don't think any crime is a small thing. Yes, there are plenty of worse things, but that does not mean ignore the other crimes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-26203523056822878582008-07-29T23:03:00.000-05:002008-07-29T23:03:00.000-05:00I'm surprised to read your take on this, Grits. Ju...I'm surprised to read your take on this, Grits. Just because the city can paint over the trash, doesn't make it not worth pursuing. One detective does not sound like much resource compared to a paint crew of 4 to 6. It's an expensive crime. You're not taking into account the businesses and homeowners who paint over their own. Plus, if it's such a great means of expression, why don't the taggers tag their own home, their own fence, their own mailbox, their own car. Oh wait, they still live with mommy and daddy and mommy and daddy probably wouldn't like that. It looks trashy and makes an area look crime-ridden, which if left tagged, will invite crime. (There are numerous published studies and books on this.) It's damaging someone else's property no matter how "cute" the tag might be. Go get some paper or actual canvas! If this is such great "art" then do it right. Oh, and the argument about cavemen...well, killing and stealing have been around since the beginning of mankind, too, so does that mean those should be acceptable just like primitive cave drawings?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-59829358247721656012008-05-25T22:23:00.000-05:002008-05-25T22:23:00.000-05:00Tychis here. Cavemen wrote on walls. The original ...Tychis here. Cavemen wrote on walls. The original humans on this continent wrote on walls. Politicians put up plastic signs and forget to take them down. What da diff. Expression is a human trait, so is hatered of others actions. Which one is more easily eradicated ? Which one is healthier for the human condition ? <BR/> I have a wall, that I can put whatever the f I want. And if you arrested kidz wanna recolor it for me e-mail me at <BR/>revtychis-hpna@yahoo.com<BR/> and if you wanna night shot go on ahead. Wish someone could bring a ladder and color the top. <BR/> The space is at 45th and Guadalupe, the alley wall on the A&R store. Please leave the rest of the alley alone. <BR/> And if Studio is listening... I owe you some paint.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-19920902942080980382008-05-24T18:08:00.000-05:002008-05-24T18:08:00.000-05:00Graffiti is also the only non-driving non-intoxica...Graffiti is also the only non-driving non-intoxication related crime that carries an automatic license suspension, and a big one - one year (see ยง 521.320 Transportation Code) and there's no better way I know to keep someone in the criminal justice system than to suspend their license.Alison Grinterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13430766696839204601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-91757243959401508082008-05-23T07:10:00.000-05:002008-05-23T07:10:00.000-05:00I'm an artist, have done public murals with high r...I'm an artist, have done public murals with high risk kids and known at least one tagger intimately. If this is the most important issue the Austin PD has on any given day, I'm moving there. And I like the dancing banana too!doc's honeeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16251428853283454920noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-37389253889731117802008-05-22T19:52:00.000-05:002008-05-22T19:52:00.000-05:00No...you never said that...it's just an impression...No...you never said that...it's just an impression I got from reading your thoughts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-40616695111601962832008-05-22T19:16:00.000-05:002008-05-22T19:16:00.000-05:00olnacl, did I say "just because you can't catch al...olnacl, did I say "just because you can't catch all of them....give up"? Where does that come from? Nobody said anything of the sort.<BR/><BR/>I said you DON'T catch them all, not that you shouldn't. I'm acknowledging reality. Won't you? The arrest rate was 18 per 16,000 crimes last year. Even if each of those 18 is responsible for 100 sites, you're punishing people responsible for barely 10% of the problem. Plus, there's no guarantee (or even likelihood) that those 18 will all stop what they're doing if they're long-time, hard-core taggers. So if that's all you've got as a solution, you've got zilch. <BR/><BR/>Cities can't "stop" graffiti. You'll never do more than manage the problem. They found graffiti in Pompeii. It's one of the oldest human activities. All cities face a constant struggle with it that ebbs and flows, with greater or lesser success.<BR/><BR/>The public walls work best when they're combined with the rapid cleanup, creating incentives by allowing tags to "ride" in approved spots while being quickly removed in non-approved areas.<BR/><BR/>In the links at the end of this post I've argued for a three-pronged approach to manage and reduce graffiti: Enforcement (sans enhancements - felony graffiti is an absurdity when domestic violence and DWI are misdemeanors), immediate cleanup, and creating valid outlets that siphon people with actual talent into more credible venues. Without that last piece, though, IMO you're playing into the taggers' cat and mouse game, possibly even encouraging graffiti (because of the uncertainty of punishment) instead of reducing it.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-58066161958658463682008-05-22T18:58:00.000-05:002008-05-22T18:58:00.000-05:00I am surprised the arrested people were adults. I...I am surprised the arrested people were adults. It seems like such a juvenile activity.<BR/><BR/>Maybe they need a good spankin'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87015544241505060752008-05-22T18:51:00.000-05:002008-05-22T18:51:00.000-05:00The question I did not see answered (and I may hav...The question I did not see answered (and I may have missed it) was how many offenses were those 18 good for? Now I know they were not good for all 16,000 but that piece of info would be nice and might show why they were arrested.<BR/><BR/>And yes I agree with using other strategies (the public walls you mentioned being one) but I disagree with "just because you can't catch all of them....give up"...there has to be happy medium between the hang 'em all and let 'em all go philosophies.<BR/><BR/>In these towns that have put up public walls or provided a place for taggers to vent their angst has there been a reduction in tagging in the rest of the town? If yes, let's do it. If no, then it's no more productive than the hunt 'em down and arrest 'em approach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-82612396973580106232008-05-22T18:25:00.000-05:002008-05-22T18:25:00.000-05:00"if it is not your's....don't touch it" sounds gre..."if it is not your's....don't touch it" sounds great as a bumper sticker solution, olnacl, but from a pragmatic perspective, what that gets you in the real world (if the police put a lot of resources into it, as in Austin) is 18 arrests per 16,000 crimes. Don't you think that kind of abject failure rate merits trying additional strategies?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-58792054597370776622008-05-22T17:43:00.000-05:002008-05-22T17:43:00.000-05:00Gonna have to disagree with you on this one....the...Gonna have to disagree with you on this one....these "artists" show zero respect for other people's property...when caught they need to be punished to the full extent the law allows.....though I think more emphasis should be put on making them work off their punishments by cleaning the messes they and their compradres commit instead of jailing all but the most egregious offenders.<BR/><BR/>Yes, their "artistic" taggers but from what I have seen they are in the minority....most of these folks are idiot thugs who do not care for anyone but themselves and totally disregard the concept of "if it is not your's....don't touch it"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-82760348764224415892008-05-22T16:08:00.000-05:002008-05-22T16:08:00.000-05:00Damn Im Amazed at the Austin PD Wow is this news o...Damn Im Amazed at the Austin PD Wow is this news or what ????I remember last June 19th when my Nephew was Murdered in Austin at a June 19th Celebration and the PD wimped out on that one...<BR/>I can see how the Austin PD is very powerful when It comes to Graffiti!!!Major news Huh....<BR/>I bet the Officers really move in when they see a Kid with a Spray can,,,,Its a shame they didnt do something like that last June 19th<BR/>Paul John Morales JrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-7317302976047031412008-05-22T14:02:00.000-05:002008-05-22T14:02:00.000-05:00That's pretty good, Michael, I hadn't heard that o...That's pretty good, Michael, I hadn't heard that one. Soowee!Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-37161172988121289282008-05-22T13:50:00.000-05:002008-05-22T13:50:00.000-05:00In Fayetteville, AR, if we find someone spraying g...In Fayetteville, AR, if we find someone spraying graffiti, we cut off their middle finger. If we catch 'em again, we cut off their ring finger. If we catch 'em a third time, we send 'em to live in Austin, Texas. Now you know where all those yahoos making the 'Hook 'em Horns!' sign come from.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800907780727476826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-78125830608158598242008-05-22T13:47:00.000-05:002008-05-22T13:47:00.000-05:00We're a long way from a "victory lap" yet, Michael...We're a long way from a "victory lap" yet, Michael, but it's good news. I just put something up.<BR/><BR/>As for: "Remove one finger on the third and each subsequent offense"<BR/><BR/>You don't know what you're talking about re: Saudi Arabia and graffiti. See the second half of <A HREF="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2007/09/grading-graffiti-and-what-do-youth-want.html" REL="nofollow">this blog post</A> for a discussion of Saudi Arabia's approach; they recently set up public walls for graffiti there.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44384796828860399082008-05-22T13:31:00.000-05:002008-05-22T13:31:00.000-05:00Yo, Grits! The Court of Appeals just ordered 39 o...Yo, Grits! The Court of Appeals just ordered 39 of the YFZ kids returned to their mothers! Who cares about graffiti? Extra extra, read all about it! I wanted to see you take your victory lap.Michaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06800907780727476826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-89198074534204758352008-05-22T13:30:00.000-05:002008-05-22T13:30:00.000-05:00Simple: Remove one finger on the third and each su...Simple: Remove one finger on the third and each subsequent offense. Eventually they will run out of fingers.<BR/><BR/>The Saudis have the right idea.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-5854941633207630472008-05-22T13:20:00.000-05:002008-05-22T13:20:00.000-05:00I have to say who they hell can be angry at a danc...I have to say who they hell can be angry at a dancing bananna on the back of an electrical box ?<BR/><BR/>Many a pasteup art has made me smile when nothing else could.<BR/><BR/>Now when its on other things yes, but i dont think it should apply to those thinsg found pasted on dumpsters , the backs of electrical boxes , Metal lightpoles or the back of telephone booths , nor when discreetly placed to make one laugh.<BR/><BR/>Dancing bannanas , Polkaing porkchops and such.<BR/><BR/>*sighs* I Miss Texas sometimes.<BR/><BR/>Now what about those dam band related postcards that litter the whole city ?Survivalwomanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11009699440583375564noreply@blogger.com