tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post1863806062476957848..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Momentum growing to confront debtors prison dilemmaGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-19270404151692559252016-04-14T17:10:22.658-05:002016-04-14T17:10:22.658-05:00The reliance on fees for operations is exactly the...The reliance on fees for operations is exactly the problem. And it was definitely an issue in our local CSCD, as it was in most others. While I can only speak for our local department, retaining offenders for their excellent record of paying fees was not an issue for us. We did not over estimate our budget for fee collections. However, the reliance on probation fees for department operation is something, I believe, which should be addressed and debated to find alternatives. Don't get me wrong. Offenders should be held accountable to victims of their crimes, but there has to be a way to change the status quo that benefits the system without jeopardizing safety or financially ruining lives.Jim Stotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484387651863003779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-23362278138363322932016-04-14T05:24:24.073-05:002016-04-14T05:24:24.073-05:00Jim, I don't recall those as "allegations...Jim, I don't recall those as "allegations" so much as just what probation directors said they had to do because of reliance on fees for funding. Maybe not in your shop, but I've heard that from directors and POs, for years, not just from advocates. It was the big critique of early release provisions in the '07 reforms.<br /><br />CSCDs situation reminds me a bit of the public defender fiasco in Louisiana where it is funded by traffic fine revenue and when it declined they couldn't pay lawyers. We have this unsustainable funding structure that encourages oversupervision because of economic incentives and pursuit of good public policy ironically leaves them strapped.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-64606408756635439482016-04-13T19:36:55.872-05:002016-04-13T19:36:55.872-05:00Scott, I seriously doubt such a statistic exists,...Scott, I seriously doubt such a statistic exists, even in the local CSCD's. I think extensions for fee balances is happening less in recent years. Several years ago, retention of offenders because they were "good payers" or were being extended with no hope of ever paying their balances was a somewhat hot topic, I believe in Senate Criminal Justice. Allegations were made at that time that untold thousands of offenders were being kept on probation because they were either "good payers" or were being extended with no hope of ever collecting the fees. While unfounded, it resulted in many courts being more supportive of waiving fines, costs and other assorted fees, if (in the opinion of the CSO) an offender had done his best to take care of that obligation. However, all of this does little to address the financial dilemma CSCD's must face because of the weight that is placed on those fee collections.Jim Stotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484387651863003779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-74943664667935924542016-04-13T07:36:48.184-05:002016-04-13T07:36:48.184-05:00Jim, are there metrics reported to TDCJ that might...Jim, are there metrics reported to TDCJ that might reveal how often probation terms are extended so people can pay fees? How can we quantify/research that?<br /><br />Thomas, I'm curious: are you related to the late Kathryn and W.M. Shamburger out of FBC-Tyler? <br /><br />Good points, HI, I've <a href="https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=child+support+site:gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">written on that topic</a> a few times over the years, fwiw.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-66070129414225497722016-04-12T18:04:02.504-05:002016-04-12T18:04:02.504-05:00Grits,
Would you please consider including confin...<br />Grits,<br /><br />Would you please consider including confinement for failure to pay child support when you are arguing against debtors prisons? This too is a shoot yourself in the foot type situation. <br /><br />When a convicted person is jailed for non-payment of fines/fees/etc, they then fall behind on child support payments too. Incarceration itself is a huge problem that interrupts child support as well; yet, the AG's office is all too happy to haul your butt into court and threaten incarceration for non-payment. What the hell good does that do?<br /><br />And last, let me bring to light the fact that divorced noncustodial parents who end up incarcerated are not allowed to suspend child support obligations. Yet, were the parents still married, the parent left behind gets no support from the spouse while they are incarcerated. Tough noogies says the state! I realize some are going to think "Oh, he went out and committed crime just to avoid child support"...... Yeah, well anyone who has had a loved one incarcerated, or has been incarcerated knows that prison is a poor alternative to paying child support. Anyone who DOES think this is likely a poor parental unit anyway, so not likely a big loss.<br /><br />My spouse asked for a 3k loan to buy tools in order to get a job in fiber optics. We/he was denied due to being behind on child support. So yeah, that makes a lot of sense... right? Deny him the ability to make $25/hour to pay down that debt and force him to keep working at $10/hour jobs. So smart. He owes 20k, and we'll never get it paid off before his child is an adult because we are paying fines/fees as well.<br /><br />The AG's office of child support enforcement is also a debtors prison racket meant to be only a point of bragging about how much has been collected from "deadbeat parents". I call bullshit and ask Grits to include this in his posts about debtors prisons.<br /><br />Thanks for all you do Grits. You are awesome beyond what any of your fans can express!<br /><br />He's Innocentnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-66070157963299024402016-04-12T17:26:46.253-05:002016-04-12T17:26:46.253-05:00When I started Judging. A fine only offence (Class...When I started Judging. A fine only offence (Class C misdemeanor) Court Cost $6.50 + fine range $1-$200.<br />The idea was a Judge determines what the fine is based on the offence and the ability to pay.<br />Now: Court Cost Up to $112 + fine range $1 - $500. ++ Surcharges on certain offences.<br />The idea is the criminal pays for the system in court cost. Many of the Fine amounts (part that goes to city or county) has stayed the same, or even dropped in some cases.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14951978605487878993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11228919199755107822016-04-12T08:18:12.365-05:002016-04-12T08:18:12.365-05:00Unfortunately, the entire criminal justice system ...Unfortunately, the entire criminal justice system is reliant on the almighty dollar to stay afloat. Allowing the courts the latitude, and probation departments the discretion to financially review cases and assess an offenders ability to pay helps. But, it also reduces operational funding if fees are waived in lieu of an alternative, like community service. Most, if not all, CSCD's struggle to make ends meet. Their operation (and reputation with the victims and the community) is reliant on collecting most of the 30 + fees that offenders may be assessed. In my experience, most offenders cannot pay (as opposed to refuse to pay), and the departments and the courts are left with a dilemma. Extend the case for certain fees (such as restitution), implement alternatives or punish the offender. This has long been an issue and needs serious debate.Jim Stotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09484387651863003779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44675390259823891532016-04-12T05:50:52.050-05:002016-04-12T05:50:52.050-05:00@5:33, what an incredibly original retort! Clearly...@5:33, what an incredibly original retort! Clearly that's what the Republican ex-prosecutor muni judge from College Station was advocating. Except for the fact that it's half-witted rubbish. you've made an excellent point.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-74684466636698333522016-04-12T05:33:29.105-05:002016-04-12T05:33:29.105-05:00^^^^Here's an even better idea. Let's just...^^^^Here's an even better idea. Let's just stop punishing criminals and lawbreakers altogether. Problem solved! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70180532863936729132016-04-11T18:50:22.587-05:002016-04-11T18:50:22.587-05:00Don't forget the Community Service free slave ...Don't forget the Community Service free slave labor racket. In Harris County, any non-profit can apply for free laborers from Probation Department (it helps if you now a judge) to perform free labor and other menial tasks for your organization, be it a fund raiser, festival, or other event. Saves you the hassle of getting volunteers to set up chairs, tents, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com