tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post2209148651110921486..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Cuts to vocational ed for prisoners will increase recidivism, near-term incarceration costsGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-73731114996821561752011-09-26T11:46:33.761-05:002011-09-26T11:46:33.761-05:00i think prisoner ed is important. if the governmen...i think prisoner ed is important. if the government won't give attention to these people then who would?<br /><br /><br /><a href="http://techniciansalary.net/vocational-salaries/" rel="nofollow">vocational education</a>Merr Haphttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11638184365068031957noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-39964631596484239052011-03-29T10:59:29.062-05:002011-03-29T10:59:29.062-05:00I am just doing the same as others are.....thats w...I am just doing the same as others are.....thats why.<br /><br />I know it is hard to think about loved ones that are locked up in prison, but that is something that that person EARNED....The sentence was imposed...not Given to them.<br /><br />Its called consequences for bad behavior....<br /><br />Kind of a hard concept to fathom?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-63841792396633293162011-03-28T10:01:47.112-05:002011-03-28T10:01:47.112-05:00You have said the same thing about 2 dozen times. ...You have said the same thing about 2 dozen times. Why don't you use copy and paste?Angeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00323251252533007308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-24873645461045699022011-03-28T09:05:19.317-05:002011-03-28T09:05:19.317-05:00The blog sight police.....pull over.
Sun Ray....a...The blog sight police.....pull over.<br /> Sun Ray....are you kidding me?<br /><br />Half empty ink pens....postage stamps....is that all there is to complain about?<br /><br />If that is correct then you have no troubles...<br /><br />As far as stationary.... TDC had an indigent program for those poor impoverished souls who have not....<br /><br />They will make sure that there is plenty of paper to write to others about...<br /><br />I thought the matter had to do with the cost and possible cuts to the education?<br /><br />Why did you lead us on a rabbit hunt?<br /><br />As for you Scott (Grits), yet again I stated that if they WANT not need an education defray the cost of it to them, or their families, wherever they can get the money....<br /><br />It really doesn't matter to me if a iliterate person or a well educated person breaks into my house....<br /><br />It won't make me feel better to know that the person can read, ad, subtract, etc. after they steal my stuff.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-25344152440697040832011-03-26T07:54:46.807-05:002011-03-26T07:54:46.807-05:00BTW, sunray's right. If you're going to po...BTW, sunray's right. If you're going to post here this much please at least use an alias. Too many anons are confusing, especially if you're going to post that often on one string.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-59217796367950345092011-03-26T07:33:58.828-05:002011-03-26T07:33:58.828-05:001:26, etc., writes: "Lets get past the fact o...1:26, etc., writes: "Lets get past the fact of how many beds there are in the prison system....The state is going to make sure that they are all filled no matter if there is 1500, or 150,000. That is just a fact of life."<br /><br />This is the main flaw in your thinking from which most of the others flow. Incarceration is expensive so budgeters cannot "get past" how many people are locked up. You can do so rhetorically if you like, but not when performing math on the budget because the number of prisoners is the main cost driver for prisons. Your suggestion will increase recidivism and therefore cause costs to go up. Again, that's not speculation: It's what happened when similar cuts were made <a href="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/02/unrepentant-hard-right-conservative-is.html" rel="nofollow">in 2003</a>. Those of us paying attention over time have already seen this movie!<br /><br />Also, here's why a 30% repayment rate is impressive: The program is only ten years old, and inmates can't participate until they have 7 years or less to go. That means <i>many participants are still incarcerated</i> and have had no chance yet to pay, and others have paid some but just not yet "in full," just like many people have outstanding student loans. And of course since repayment is through parole fees, there's arguably a stronger mechanism for securing repayment than there is for student loans. How many people have paid off their student loans in full a year or two after leaving school? Did you? If not, why do you expect it of them? If students in or out of prison could afford to pay up front, they wouldn't need to borrow or in inmates' case pay in installments after the fact.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-73983198376857770942011-03-26T01:30:28.085-05:002011-03-26T01:30:28.085-05:00Anon (get an alias for goodness sake!) said:
&quo...Anon (get an alias for goodness sake!) said:<br /><br />"As far as the substandard goods, I do not know what it is referring to, but yet again....they are not forced to purchase theses items if they do not want them....I fing it hard to believe that the prison system however harsh, would have a compulsary purchase program placed on the prisoners. But whoever said that time in prison was supposed to be easy, pleasant, educationally fullfilling, or anything else?"<br /><br />Sub-standard goods as in pens that are less than half-full of ink when bought. Inflated prices meaning that my husband has to spend more on postage for his letters to me than he would at the Post Office, because his unit refuses to stock international stamps.<br /><br />You are right, no one forces inmates to spend money on commisarry (or phone calls, let's not forget those here), but how else do you suggest they maintain relationships with family members if they don't purchase the stationary to do so? If these inmates choose to take a correspondence course (paid for by families), how are they supposed to complete the assignments without the stationary? If the inmates just want to improve their own vocabulary by reading, who do you think supplies the majority of books circulating inside TDCJ prisons?<br /><br />I appreciate that you would rather pick and choose exactly where you taxes are spent, but the system does not work like that. If you want people locked up, then there are associated expences that you also have to fund, and the more people you lock up, the more expensive it gets. That's basic economics. And thinking it is a deterrent is way off the mark. If it were, Texas would have less people entering TDCJ, not more.<br /><br />If you seriously think that time in TDCJ is "pleasant" then you obviously have had little experience from either side of the wire with it. Placing individuals in prison is an opportunity for society to have a second chance at producing productive citizens that will almost certainly one day be released and may end up living next door to you. Your approach, to warehouse inmates and give them nothing to do, reduce contact with friends and family, and make no attempt to re-educate them to be better citizens, simply puts you and your community (or worse still, removing them from your community and dumping them on someone else's) in further danger and creates more expense later on.sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1730441-crime-human-rightsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-52882886631257631582011-03-25T15:48:24.222-05:002011-03-25T15:48:24.222-05:00Surely there is a VALUE to slave labor...I thought...Surely there is a VALUE to slave labor...I thought slavery was abolished in the United States.Audreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04316183416545492160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-4055546652335505582011-03-25T14:26:01.886-05:002011-03-25T14:26:01.886-05:00Maybe the selection and review process should incl...Maybe the selection and review process should include the clause of:<br /><br />No money= No SchoolingAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-63234659111265396192011-03-25T14:21:59.184-05:002011-03-25T14:21:59.184-05:00And speaking about the higher cost of prisons...
...And speaking about the higher cost of prisons...<br /><br />Isn't this program offered to prisoners?<br /><br />I mean people who are already there anyway?<br /><br />Since it is costing us soo much to keep them there, do we really need to spend money on something that is noy neccessary?<br /><br />Or should we just turn them all loose and build more schools?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-31524778545000503582011-03-25T14:17:49.376-05:002011-03-25T14:17:49.376-05:00Wow what a sucess story!!!
A whole 30% huh?
And ...Wow what a sucess story!!!<br /><br />A whole 30% huh?<br /><br />And people wonder why the state is having a deficit!!!<br /><br />What about the 70% that aren't paying back?<br /><br />Jst another fine example of the business world!!!<br /><br />If you are having a LOSS, then you cannot AFFORD to stay in business.<br /><br />Thank you again for driving the point home....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-36181482131989900312011-03-25T13:45:14.901-05:002011-03-25T13:45:14.901-05:00Our taxes pay for the system and some prefer the h...Our taxes pay for the system and some prefer the higher costs of prisons rather than providing skills that make former inmates self-supporting on the outside. This is another example of Texans love of putting punishment over education.<br />Windham Schools are not available in all units and then there is a selection and review process for qualification. At least 30% of them are repaying the debt and paying taxes.Angeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00323251252533007308noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-3372357071560064212011-03-25T12:55:35.412-05:002011-03-25T12:55:35.412-05:00Sorry it took me so long to respond Sunray....I wa...Sorry it took me so long to respond Sunray....I was eating lunch.<br /><br />Thank you for making my point!!!<br /><br />Yes TDCJ does take a percentage to deflect the cost of obtaining these commisary items....That is called GOOD BUSINESS!!!!<br /><br />One cannot stay afloat financially by giving whatever product or merchandise you are in the business of selling if there is no profit.<br />As I have mentioned earlier, prisoners are consumers....<br />If they want to further their education, then the law of supply and demand comes into play..<br />If they cannot afford it then they are not a consumer....I do not think that they would qualify for a student loan, so therefore thay will have to either get friends and family to contribute, or learn to do without, which is something that people in the world learn to do on a daily basis.<br />Yes...their families pay taxes I suppose....I know I do, and I do not want the money that I am taxed for to go to this college educational program for convicted felons.....<br /><br /><br />As far as the substandard goods, I do not know what it is referring to, but yet again....they are not forced to purchase theses items if they do not want them....I fing it hard to believe that the prison system however harsh, would have a compulsary purchase program placed on the prisoners. But whoever said that time in prison was supposed to be easy, pleasant, educationally fullfilling, or anything else?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-10617430175893056602011-03-25T11:51:01.515-05:002011-03-25T11:51:01.515-05:00Yes, friends and family contribute a lot of money ...Yes, friends and family contribute a lot of money into the corrections system via the money they put into the inmates' trust funds. That money then gets spent on commissary (inflated prices and sub-standard goods) where TDCJ takes a cut. Friends and family in texas who work also contribute via taxes to the corrections system. or are you one of those people who believe that criminals only come from families on welfare where no-one works at all?sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1641834-living-unconventional-lifestylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-33183583353309895012011-03-25T09:57:57.096-05:002011-03-25T09:57:57.096-05:00What money are your friends and family contributin...What money are your friends and family contributing to the Corrections?<br /><br />If you mean that you are sending it to the inmate trust fund, then that means it goes to the inmate, and therefore goes into his or her commisary account.<br /><br />This is the exact account I have been talking about letting them tap into so that they could fund their educational wants....not needs.<br /><br />Why is it so hard for people to relize that these people that Felons do not have a greater need than anyone else in society...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-23456027341149111512011-03-25T00:31:22.229-05:002011-03-25T00:31:22.229-05:00@ Anon 5.25 ~ my inmate family tax comment was in ...@ Anon 5.25 ~ my inmate family tax comment was in sarcasm, just in case you didn't realise what the "[/sarcasm]" bit at the end was. But to be honest it wouldn't be a completely bad thing, because then at least the rest of Git Tuff Texas would have to acknowledge that inmate friends and family contribute a lot of money into the Corrections system in the state.sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1452012-what-kind-of-woman-marries-a-man-behind-barsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51805184536342976622011-03-24T15:15:48.347-05:002011-03-24T15:15:48.347-05:00Certainly, the "adopt a convict" program...Certainly, the "adopt a convict" program is a way of raising awareness of what is going on in the Texas justice system. Then perhaps voters will come to have a better understanding of what and who they are voting for and they can make more educated decisions.Audreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04316183416545492160noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44904718688793756512011-03-24T13:40:49.433-05:002011-03-24T13:40:49.433-05:00I kind of like the adaopt a convict program idea.....I kind of like the adaopt a convict program idea......quite refreshing....someone is thinking outside the box...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-33151645369928568992011-03-24T13:32:32.103-05:002011-03-24T13:32:32.103-05:00The vocational training that prisoners receive whi...The vocational training that prisoners receive while in prison is usually related to some type of industrial application. A lot of prisoners are released and or paroled to areas where there are no jobs of this type.<br />So what are they supposed to do?<br />They cannot move to where the jobs are due to parole restrictions, so they will wind up doing what got them into trouble in the first place.....but at least they will be able to more understand the justice system with their newly obtained education.....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-6810289316306378342011-03-24T13:26:52.933-05:002011-03-24T13:26:52.933-05:00OK Scott.....Do you really think there are not goi...OK Scott.....Do you really think there are not going to people in prison in the future?<br /><br />People are going to be sent to prison as long as there are LAWS that are being broken....it is kind like for every action there is a reaction.<br /><br />Lets get past the fact of how many beds there are in the prison system....The state is going to make sure that they are all filled no matter if there is 1500, or 150,000. That is just a fact of life.<br /><br />The point of the matter is trying to LOWER the cost of maintaining the prisons and the people who are locked away.<br />One way to lower the cost is to put some of the burden of said onto the consumers (prisoners).<br /><br />It is the same thing that happens in business. The higher price to manufacture or produce a certain product is transferred to the consumer.<br /><br />Obtaining a College degree while in prison is not a neccessity, it is something extra. Neither you nor I was told that we would receive a college degree free of charge upon the completion of high school.<br /><br />Yet again I am sure that the retort will be uneducated people will continue to commit crimes so we owe it to ourselves to educate them.....Well as I have said before, a person will change when THEY wish to....not just because they have a better education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51081489735687413112011-03-24T12:21:40.156-05:002011-03-24T12:21:40.156-05:0012:18, as I understand it, it's all or almost ...12:18, as I understand it, it's all or almost all college vocational classes. You're exactly right.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87898791351091072462011-03-24T12:18:01.571-05:002011-03-24T12:18:01.571-05:00Here's a question: what percent of the "...Here's a question: what percent of the "college" costs are really vocational training? Mike Ward's article leads one to believe that inmates are getting loans to take general college classes. That may be part of the total cost, but it appeared more likely that the bulk of money went to community college vocational training. Research shows that the majority of the public is in favor of vocational training for prisoners (despite some of the posts here) and, in most states, it is an essential part of prison programming. Here, it seems that prisoners are expected to pay back the costs ... and, amazingly, some do when they get out. I think saying it is "college' pushes a lot of people's buttons because not everyone can afford college for themselves or their children; but, I would really like to see what percent of the total cost was for vocational classes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-80212727952419444142011-03-24T12:14:56.428-05:002011-03-24T12:14:56.428-05:00I didn't wake up grumpy, 11:02, just sentient....I didn't wake up grumpy, 11:02, just sentient.<br /><br />You say "Plane (sic) and simple....if it cost (sic) more, it needs to be cut."<br /><br />But plain and simple, future incarceration costs more than education programs today, so if you cut education programs, taxpayers pay more overall because of higher recidivism. That's not speculation, it's <a href="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/02/unrepentant-hard-right-conservative-is.html" rel="nofollow">exactly what happened</a> last time these programs were cut.<br /><br />But again, think what you want: Don't let reality spoil your fun.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-73554649380338962732011-03-24T11:02:45.588-05:002011-03-24T11:02:45.588-05:00Oh...Did someone wake up grumpy this morning?
Yet...Oh...Did someone wake up grumpy this morning?<br /><br />Yet again.... Here we go with the if you don't give them an education they are going to commit more crime when they get out of prison song.<br /><br />I believe that this particular issue is MONEY...or lack thereof.<br />If a person wants to rehabilitate while in prison they will do so whether or not they receive an education while they are there.<br />Change....TRUE change comes from within...I understand that people need options to DO THE RIGHT THING, but these are people that have already had those options and decided not to pursue them, and hence received a prison sentence.<br />If a prisoner wants to further their education let them fund it...If they are allowed to receive coddling while incarcerated, they are really going to be shocked when released unless they have family or friends to help.<br />Regardless of their educational acheivements while in prison.<br />Plane and simple....if it cost more, it needs to be cut. Afterall, there are many programs available to them when they are released..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-33858755032367090102011-03-24T10:44:03.812-05:002011-03-24T10:44:03.812-05:007:53, here in the Rick-Perry era, Texas releases s...7:53, here in the Rick-Perry era, Texas releases some 72,000+ convicted felons per year from prison. The cost to taxpayers is much greater if, when they leave, they're unprepared and fail instead of successfully reentering society.<br /><br />While I'm sure you think your sarcasm is clever, you don't seem to understand what happens when this programming gets cut - just like in 2003, it <a href="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/02/unrepentant-hard-right-conservative-is.html" rel="nofollow">costs the taxpayers much more</a>.<br /><br />But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your self-righteousness, it might take away some of the fun.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.com