tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post387215263563772931..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Bills in Senate, House take opposite tacks on grand jury transparencyGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-20400277519046357782013-04-12T14:12:34.454-05:002013-04-12T14:12:34.454-05:00COMMITTEE VOTE on SB 834
Yea
Whitmire
Huff...COMMITTEE VOTE on SB 834<br /><br />Yea<br /><br /> <br />Whitmire<br /><br />Huffman<br /> Hinojosa <br /><br />Schwertner <br /><br />*Nay<br /><br />Rodriguez <br /><br /> <br /><br />*Absent<br /><br />Carona<br /><br />Patrick<br /><br />Who you gonna call?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-85608948644394244452013-04-12T13:48:33.459-05:002013-04-12T13:48:33.459-05:00After dragging my eyes through his last blast (the...After dragging my eyes through his last blast (the end of an entire days worth) he actually said something worth while. <br /><br />"Newsflash: prosecutors are only one component of an adversarial criminal justice system along with the cops, judges, grand jurors, petit jurors, defense attorneys, appellate judges, etc.. Prosecutors don't typically investigate the crimes, nor or they typically involved in the decision to file charges or make an arrest."<br /><br />Yes, it truly takes a team effort to rightfully convict the guilty. The problem is that once it becomes obvious that someone was wrongfully convicted (after the fact), the investigation / vetting to locate the bad apple in the system ends up indicating that it was not just the ADA and the crime victim's fault. While not a newsflash by any means, the lack of desire or a basic requirement to vett key portions of an arrest report (reason why arrested) or a Line Up proceding prior to: *presenting alleged facts to the D.A's Intake, *the GJ, participating in a jury selection, *filing ready for trial notices or *plea bargaining (a form of false confession) vs. doing the right thing begot $80K per year, plus, plus. To file a bill seeking to mask the main players is distrubing & lays the ground work to mask everyone. <br /> <br />As for his last sentence one can see he lost control of the keyboard due to incontenence or to peek out the blinds. If they (Detectives) were to vett the reasons provided to them for an arrest and the D.A's. Intake were to vett the reasons given to them by the detective on the other end of the phone prior to seeking charges that'd be a form of investigation. As to why in the world self proclaimed Criminal Defense Attorneys fail to investigate prior to filing ready for trial notices is disturbing and business as usual. When the judge sleeps or doodles a kangeroo court is in session. When professions' that rely on the by product of investigations to the point of creating postions with the title of Investigator or Detective or Grand Jury decides not to investigate or detect or vett, you get what we've gotten for our buck. <br /><br />As it is now, we got a blame & defend game and it deffinately isn't the ADAs' fault alone, for it takes a team effort. Eventually the ADAs will grow tired of being made the sole scape goat and stop taking everyone's word and running with it. The nation is aware of our secrets (past, present & now the future intentions of a Senator). Yes, he's correct it's time to make some calls if we don't like it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-80756621983895367662013-04-12T11:34:34.580-05:002013-04-12T11:34:34.580-05:00Anon 11:20 I agree, read t...Anon 11:20 I agree, read the David Jennings (Big Jolly)article written today in the Houston Chronicle and you will understand why we must contact our elected official's and ask that they not vote for this bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-21997106913994326912013-04-12T11:20:19.796-05:002013-04-12T11:20:19.796-05:00Look what happened in Harris Co. this last Distric...Look what happened in Harris Co. this last District Attorneys election. This is a perfect example why this bill must not be passed. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-6583752312343349232013-04-12T10:57:43.276-05:002013-04-12T10:57:43.276-05:005:12, your reference to "you criminals" ...5:12, your reference to "you criminals" to describe anyone who disagrees with you, not to mention the off-topic, self serving pablum in your comment, is the sort of attitude that draws out prosecutorial critics on these strings. You complain about others not staying on point, but if one took out all the off-topic aspects of your comment there'd be nothing left but "Anonymous" and a date stamp.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-38853406778201617342013-04-11T17:15:03.314-05:002013-04-11T17:15:03.314-05:00@Anon 9:48. You act as if I said a crime had not ...@Anon 9:48. You act as if I said a crime had not yet occurred. What I stated was, a defendant is not convicted at the time a grand jury looks at the evidence to either indict or not. This has nothing to do with the alleged victim, nor the level of danger the defendant might pose. I am solely speaking if a defendant is found guilty at the GJ level. He/She is not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-89256029933248450852013-04-11T17:12:54.415-05:002013-04-11T17:12:54.415-05:00Let's see, this post by Grits started out as a...Let's see, this post by Grits started out as a discussion about a bill filed by the a member of the legislature to protect the identity of grand jurors, and somehow it's evolved into some kind of obsessive anti-prosecutor rant. It's almost becoming comical on this blog how prosecutors are being blamed for every misfortune that falls upon the criminal element--as if the prosecutor was responsible for the irresponsible choices that criminals in our society make that cause them to be hauled into court to begin with. Newsflash: prosecutors are only one component of an adversarial criminal justice system along with the cops, judges, grand jurors, petit jurors, defense attorneys, appellate judges, etc.. Prosecutors don't typically investigate the crimes, nor or they typically involved in the decision to file charges or make an arrest. Whatever power and discretion prosecutors have is provided to them in the law which comes from "we the people." If you don't like it, change the law. In this instance, an elected legislator is trying to pass a law to protect grand jurors' identities. If his constituents don't like it, they can elect another legislator. If you don't like the fact that some prosecutors might support this bill, call your senator or representative and lobby against it. It continually amazes me how criminals want to blame someone else for the consequences of every stupid decision they make. Another news flash: prosecutors have absolutely no interest in convicting innocent people. There is no honor in that and it serves no useful purpose in the protection of the communities they serve. With that said, except in the case of major crimes and cases that go to trial, most prosecutors I know don't have a lot of time to spend on the cases they prosecute. They base their decisions on the evidence presented to them by the investigating law enforcement agency and they make a plea recommendation based upon that evidence and the law. You, as a criminal defendant, have two choices: either go to trial or enter a plea. NO PROSECUTOR CAN MAKE A DEFENDANT PLEAD GUILTY! A prosecutor can, using his discretion and the law, make the risks of going to trial potentially high. But at the end of the day, the choice is that of the defendant with the advice of his lawyer. And the fact that the potential risk of going to trial is not really the fault of the prosecutor either. That risk is based on two things: the evidence and the law. And the prosecutor didn't write the law. Another newsflash: for the prosecutor, it's not personal. The prosecutor doesn't hate you. He's not trying to ruin your life. To him, you're just another case. There were many before you and there will be many more after you. The fact that you were not happy with the job that your lawyer did for you is not the prosecutor's fault either. Whatever your lawyer told you how the prosecutor was being a jerk was probably not true. The prosecutor was just doing his job. Most prosecutors I know do not obsess over not guilty verdicts. There's no time to. It's not the end of the world. There's no reason to cheat. They have to pick up the next file and continue to do their jobs. <br /><br />On the other hand, if it makes you criminals to feel better about yourself and it helps your self-esteem to blame prosecutors for your own mistakes, I suppose that's natural. But at the end of the day, most prosecutors just wish you'd get your act together and become productive members of society. There will be plenty of new criminals to fill your shoes. Prosecutors, like plumbers, will never run out of work. And who knows, one of these days when you age out of your anti-social desires, you might become a victim yourself and need a prosecutor to be an advocate for you. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-45775123881703541502013-04-11T16:07:12.757-05:002013-04-11T16:07:12.757-05:00I just saw an article that said a new study found ...I just saw an article that said a new study found that daydreaming while driving is more dangerous than texting while driving. So, I assume, because prosecutors are so concerned about saving lives, they will now seek to make it a criminal offense to daydream while driving. <br /><br />Actually, if we really care about all these victims of careless driving, we should ban driving altogether. Anyone who doesn't agree is obviously a pro-careless driving, pro-negligenct homicide liberal wacko who doesn't care about all those poor innocent victims. <br /><br />(Again, to all the prosecutors out there: This is sarcasm). Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-89858749481818684922013-04-11T16:01:12.310-05:002013-04-11T16:01:12.310-05:00I find it mildly amusing, and somewhat disturbing ...I find it mildly amusing, and somewhat disturbing that prosecutors cannot have a discussion about something without resorting to name-calling and demonizing those they disagree with. When a person has to resort to this sort of behavior, it means they cannot adequately defend their position. We see it all the time in politics. Its just like those that say if you disagree with the Prez you're a racist. But, anyone with any commmon sense knows its possible to disagree with the Prez on legitimate grounds without being a racist. Likewise, anytime a person makes a stand for the Constititution, for transparency in government, or for reforming a badly broken criminal justice system, prosecutors start throwing out the pro-criminal labels. I'm sorry but it is just weak and the prosecutors that do that should be ashamed if that is the best argument they can muster. One would hope they can do better in court. Although, maybe that's why they want to keep the system so slanted in their favor - because they lack the ability to make good sound arguments in court - I don't know. From what we've seen here, these prosecutors need biased judges and juries if there comments here are any reflection on their abilities. The lack of insight that these people have is really astounding. But, I guess it is common today because we see it all the time in politics. They just can't seem to understand that someone can have a legitimate disagreement with them over an issue unless that person has some evil motive. When a person must resort this type of demonization, they simply have no credibility. <br /><br />One final note - it never ceases to disturb me how much prosecutors appear to hate the Constitution, open government, and, sometimes, even justice. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-54814065365888706642013-04-11T15:56:41.934-05:002013-04-11T15:56:41.934-05:00Anon 03:00,
Do you think it'll be a grand jur...Anon 03:00,<br /><br />Do you think it'll be a grand juror someone goes after or a petit juror? If both or just the latter, does that mean the petit jurors identity will now be a secret to the defendant? That's where your logic leads.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-27757245692246039652013-04-11T15:00:23.867-05:002013-04-11T15:00:23.867-05:00@9:48...If they're not criminals at the time o...@9:48...If they're not criminals at the time of the indictment, does that mean they're not dangerous? What are they at the time they commit the crime? They haven't been convicted of anything then either. Do you think the poor victim should just presume that nothing ever happened?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-77265952380402694932013-04-11T13:54:50.919-05:002013-04-11T13:54:50.919-05:00Regarding the issue at hand, if it passes, we shou...Regarding the issue at hand, if it passes, we should look forward to a bill seeking mandatory black tape for all name plates & nameless LEO badges. Can you imagine the momentum leading to color coded hoods with two holes being mandatory court appearal. <br /><br />Then of course a following bill will seek to blackout all names of arresting officers, adas, judges, trial jurors, court reporters, crime victims and defense attorney leaving only the defendant's name. Should this come to pass, Austin, Tx will be forever known as Russia, Tx. Goood day commrads?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-83980575443803205312013-04-11T13:41:53.328-05:002013-04-11T13:41:53.328-05:00Hopefully the very helpfull Anon at 1:05 PM will r...Hopefully the very helpfull Anon at 1:05 PM will return and verify.<br /> <br />In Texas, we have an Indictment & an Information documents. Whats the difference of the two and how are they used to obtain felony charges? Why or what Rule prevents the Defense from being present during GJ procedings?<br /><br /> <br /><br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-56029380404398831982013-04-11T09:48:04.645-05:002013-04-11T09:48:04.645-05:00@12:33 Your Statement "I might just have maj...@12:33 Your Statement "I might just have major reservations about having my name or personal information known to the criminals I was indicting" <br /><br />But they are not criminals at the time you indict them.. You, as a grand jury, are not convicting them, you are solely tasked with the job of looking at the evidence against the ACCUSED and making your best guess as to if this is enough to go forward to trial. That is all. At the Grand Jury level, there is no 'criminal' only the accused.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-10557934115228695212013-04-10T20:02:17.682-05:002013-04-10T20:02:17.682-05:00Why don't we just do away with all the pretens...Why don't we just do away with all the pretense. We don't need no stinking juries, or trial, or due process, or Constitutional rights. All that stuff is just a waste of taxpayer's money and resources. Every one of our law enforcement officers and prosecutors are always 100% honest and they get it right 100% of the time so we should trust them to make all these decisions without any interference from anyone.<br /><br />From now on, if the police arrest you, the prosecutor will determine your sentence and that is that. If you don't like it, you can just go to jail too. The only people that should have a problem with that are criminals and liberal wackos. <br /><br />(Note to prosecutors who might read this: This is sarcasm)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-55409876803756296542013-04-10T13:05:33.215-05:002013-04-10T13:05:33.215-05:00@ 12:33
I agree with your moral reasoning, but th...@ 12:33<br /><br />I agree with your moral reasoning, but the problem is that in Texas--especially in its largest counties--grand jurors are almost always not compelled to serve, but instead volunteer or are recruited via something called a "key man" system.<br /><br />Before a grand jury is scheduled to serve, a judge selects 4 or 5 so-called "key men" (although they can be women as well). These are often people the judge knows personally, through church, community groups, or political ties.<br /><br />Some judges make a sincere effort to be diverse in their selection of key men and reach outside law enforcement and their own personal comfort zone, into communities they are not a part of or don't normally socialize with.<br /><br />Others.... er, not so much.<br /><br />These 4-5 key men then each individually go about recruiting a group of other possible grand jurors. Again, the extent to which any of them chooses to diversify their select list varies widely.<br /><br />The potential for bias--intentional or systemic--is obvious.<br /><br />Read the Denton Record-Chronicle report.<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/DRCgrandjuryconflicts<br /><br />Read this Houston Chronicle analysis from 2004.<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/HCcommonties<br /><br />So long as Texas allows judges to exert a powerful influence over the composition of their grand juries, and individuals are allowed to serve multiple terms--often as part of clique they've served with in the past, and have ties to outside the grand jury room--the media and ultimately the public needs to be able to independently scrutinize these relationships.<br /><br />Unless, of course, you are willing to allow me to serve every other year as a grand juror--preferably as a "key man" or even the foreman--for the same judge with whom I have a close personal and political relationship, and trust me not to abuse that authority or the ability to shape other membership of others on the panel.<br /><br />In that case, I'm all in favor of keeping my identity and service a secret.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-35510102659631997442013-04-10T13:04:17.490-05:002013-04-10T13:04:17.490-05:00Many people are too shortsighted to see what is ha...Many people are too shortsighted to see what is happening in Texas. It is similar to what has happened in the nation since 911. The state is helping to escalate a war against certain groups (admittedly mostly very bad people). Police are being equipped and trained for war. As this conflict escalates, the government will use fear (as is being done by prosecutors here) to justify more restraints on liberty, more government secrecy, and more government power. This will happen gradually, but eventually, Texas will just be another totalitarian regime.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-77351634396010460772013-04-10T12:59:33.752-05:002013-04-10T12:59:33.752-05:00Let's use the prosecutor logic here:
I've...Let's use the prosecutor logic here:<br /><br />I've never heard of a grand juror being killed for their service. The likelihood of a person being killed for serving on a grand jury is less than the odds of winning the lottery. Therefore, this secrecy thing, which is being pushed with those with a political agenda, is ridiculous. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-32819924441258899642013-04-10T12:57:42.072-05:002013-04-10T12:57:42.072-05:00"It also reduces the likelihood that someone ..."It also reduces the likelihood that someone might attempt to improperly influence a grand juror during their term."<br /><br />Unless that someone is the prosecutor. How about this - as a trade off for the secrecy, we take grand juries out of the hands of both the judges and prosecutors. Have an independent official not affiliated with the DAs office in any way in charge of both selecting the grand jury and presenting the case to them. His job would be to present the case in an ubiased manner, presenting all relevant evidence. Wouldn't that be more fair than the current method where the DA only presents whats needed to get the indictment? <br /><br />As far as the "ham sandwich" thing, I had never heard the second part of that until a couple of years aqo - A prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich "for the murder of the pig." <br /><br />Why is it that power seeking government types always feel the need to resort to fear mongering to get more power. This has been done by the war on terror and is a routine practice for prosecutors. Seriously, has anyone ever declined to serve on a grand jury because they are afraid for their safety? I think such a thing would be extremely rare. How many grand jurors have been killed for their service? Come on people...unfortunately (and the power hungry fear mongering prosecutors know this) most of the gullible public will fall for it. <br /><br />What that quote about safety and liberty?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-27388361805291053112013-04-10T12:33:48.800-05:002013-04-10T12:33:48.800-05:00@10:47, The distinction between grand jurors and p...@10:47, The distinction between grand jurors and prosecutors, jailers, etc., is that grand jurors are SUMMONED to grand jury duty. They are private citizens who, unless they have an excuse, are compelled to participate. I'm sorry, but if I were compelled to become a participant in the criminal justice process not of my own choosing, I might just have major reservations about having my name or personal information known to the criminals I was indicting--especially if I lived in a county along the Mexican border. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-14924758330018992232013-04-10T11:57:36.853-05:002013-04-10T11:57:36.853-05:00Consider this extraordinary example of investigati...Consider this extraordinary example of investigative journalism performed by reporters with the Denton Record-Chronicle in 2011.<br /><br />http://tinyurl.com/DRCgrandjuryconflicts<br /><br />Should Senator Estes' bill pass, this type of independent scrutiny (and public exposure) of conflicts of interest among grand jurors would be impossible.<br /><br />If I were Harris County District Attorney Mike Anderson, I'd desperately want to prevent that as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-27679779125121735302013-04-10T10:58:29.763-05:002013-04-10T10:58:29.763-05:0010;49, unless I'm misreading it, the answer is...10;49, unless I'm misreading it, the answer is "forever." They're already secret while they're seated unless someone happened to be in the room when they're first sworn in.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-43774790446340965982013-04-10T10:57:10.381-05:002013-04-10T10:57:10.381-05:0010:24 writes, "if you don't think grand j...10:24 writes, "if you don't think grand juries will 'nullify' or override the recommendation of a prosecutor, then you're living in some alternative universe"<br /><br />Or you're just living in a universe where everything that happens in the grand jury room is secret and so no one is in a position to verify such claims. If what you say is true then the system would benefit from enhanced credibility if that were made public. The meme about grand juries indicting a ham sandwich is a widespread belief, not just my view: The only way to dispel it, if it's really a "myth," as you claim, is greater transparency.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-13466931599079236122013-04-10T10:49:16.746-05:002013-04-10T10:49:16.746-05:00Question, please. Does this bill limit the identi...Question, please. Does this bill limit the identification of Grand Jurors only while sitting or forever? Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-48005086179942276522013-04-10T10:47:57.410-05:002013-04-10T10:47:57.410-05:0010:24,
Really? By your justification, ALL juries...10:24,<br /><br />Really? By your justification, ALL juries should be secret as should DAs, arresting officers, jailers, etc. <br /><br />Sorry but that is EXACTLY the way social control works in dictatorships, etc.<br /><br />Grand jury and innocence? The prosecutor determines what the grand jury sees. Remember the Duke Lacrosse case?<br /><br />As for the rest of your comment, you are aware it was a judge who is quoted regarding the ham sandwich? After he was indicted, by the way.<br /><br />And it not that they ARE a star chamber but that they can easily be one under the likes of Nifong. :~) <br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com