tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post4219254069480084017..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Debating tobacco prohibition for 18 year oldsGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger24125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-56328304690020777822009-04-07T13:08:00.000-05:002009-04-07T13:08:00.000-05:00I have to disagree with comparing the ability to b...I have to disagree with comparing the ability to be tried as an adult to smoking. I don't think that those decisions have anything to do with each other. Although I don't disagree with the whole arbitrary age argument, it does make sense to postpone as long as possible the decision to become addicted to cigarrettes. Personally I think they should extend the age limitations to the age when kids stop growing. Whether that be 18, 21, or 35 should be determined by a doctor not a legislator. The fact that irresponsible adults allow kids to start smoking underage is beside the point. The law is aimed at protecting as many people as possible. If we used the argument that some people get away with it so what is the point of the law, then we wouldn't have any laws on the books.Anthonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-29945856601912575382009-04-07T12:33:00.000-05:002009-04-07T12:33:00.000-05:00rev. kiker here17 yr olds can face charges as adul...rev. kiker here<BR/><BR/>17 yr olds can face charges as adults of minors in possession; make sense of that if you can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-36333258301247581012009-04-07T11:17:00.000-05:002009-04-07T11:17:00.000-05:00Bluesy: How is it over there in Egypt on Denial R...Bluesy: How is it over there in Egypt on Denial River? The law had it's genesis in the the Hildebran bill, which failed probably BECAUSE he said it was targeted. The fact that it was picked up and changed to pass muster doesn't change anything. Actually, what is frustrating is that you are not stupid, and you know this as well as I do, yet you persist. Grits is right, you are a one-man red herring factory AND a piece of work. <BR/>X4LIVIN: Let's just stop making them? I'm not making them and selling them. Are you? So, I guess we would have to pass a PROHIBITION law against making and selling them. Which worked so well with booze before and is working so well with drugs now.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902834245861000386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-57390076030504552812009-04-07T08:31:00.000-05:002009-04-07T08:31:00.000-05:00Lets just stop making and selling cigarettes. Pro...Lets just stop making and selling cigarettes. Problem solved and we have a healthier nation and healthcare costs plummet. (I realize despirate people will find something to smoke..let them..the majority of the nation just gets over it)x4livinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06904131897122610452noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-76224812486608695722009-04-07T07:54:00.000-05:002009-04-07T07:54:00.000-05:00"We don't need The State to tell kids how to act, ..."We don't need The State to tell kids how to act, we just need parents to do that...as they should have been doing, all along."<BR/><BR/>The federal government thinks so. The federal government is setting the example for state government.<BR/><BR/>I wander what they teach in high school civics as to what the role of government is suppose to be. Probably are far cry from what it's suppose to be and what it really is.<BR/><BR/>As time goes by, it's only going to becomee increasingly intrusive.<BR/><BR/>Support a local tea party on <BR/>April 15th.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-48386735529548110202009-04-07T07:40:00.000-05:002009-04-07T07:40:00.000-05:00When I was younger, it was my family that made sur...When I was younger, it was my family that made sure I understood the responsibilities of adulthood and the penalties for failing to live up to them. <BR/><BR/>For example, Da made it clear that anything the police did to me if I was stupid enough to be driving drunk would be <I>nothing</I> compared to what <I>he</I> (former combat Marine) would do to my sorry arse. <BR/><BR/>But he also told me that if I was going to experiment with alcohol, to do it at home. The bottles were easily accessed, and there were never any pencil marks on the labels to gauge usage. <BR/><BR/>But I never did. I never touched a drop all through jr. high, high school and college. Just never had any interest...<I>partly because he demystified it.</I> No 'forbidden fruit' to be snatched in secret. All out in the open. So none of us kids turned out to be drinkers. None of us got in trouble with the Law because of it.<BR/><BR/>The same with tobacco. It was there, because Mum smoked like a chimney for years (until pleurisy forced her to stop) and the understanding was that we might be curious, so when we were old enough, it was our choice. But like with the booze, we all said "No thanks." <BR/><BR/>We don't need The State to tell kids how to act, we just need parents to do that...<B>as they should have been doing, all along.</B>kaptinemonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79229241972290799552009-04-07T00:20:00.000-05:002009-04-07T00:20:00.000-05:00Kids can drive legally at 16, yet not have sex leg...Kids can drive legally at 16, yet not have sex legally outside marriage until they are 17. Which causes more deaths each year?sunray's wenchhttp://www.associatedcontent.com/user/443208/oldschool.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-39145486585047967772009-04-06T22:20:00.000-05:002009-04-06T22:20:00.000-05:00Ah yes, the 70's. Our teen lives were much simple...Ah yes, the 70's. Our teen lives were much simpler then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-37885829402574662672009-04-06T22:04:00.000-05:002009-04-06T22:04:00.000-05:00Ha Ha thats so funny,, I graduated from Borger Hig...Ha Ha thats so funny,, I graduated from Borger High School in 1977 and they had designated smoking areas for the Students,,, Now thats something I guess im gettin old.. I wish someone would sponsor a Bill that would test the Legislatures for Drugs and Alchol?? Now that would be funny!!!Oh well im 50 years old and really got a laugh out of that one,, Man in the troubled times maybe one of the Cowboys could start thinking of something useful to put out there!!!<BR/>I think im right on the Drug testing and alchol testing yearly of all politicians,,,,,, Now lets see who would get that passed????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-26122507369973245642009-04-06T21:47:00.000-05:002009-04-06T21:47:00.000-05:00Do you charge both?Do you charge both?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-62007399527728466482009-04-06T21:35:00.000-05:002009-04-06T21:35:00.000-05:00"So are you saying that if two 16 year olds decide..."So are you saying that if two 16 year olds decide to get it on that it's illegal and they can be charged with a crime?"<BR/><BR/>Actually yes, as of this moment, it IS illegal for two 16's to 'get it on'. Unless the bills in the lege pass this year it always will be..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-91962270526911282722009-04-06T20:55:00.000-05:002009-04-06T20:55:00.000-05:00"Texas youth can drive and get married at 16 with ..."Texas youth can drive and get married at 16 with parental consent, but can't legally have sex outside of marriage until they're 17."<BR/><BR/>So are you saying that if two 16 year olds decide to get it on that it's illegal and they can be charged with a crime? If they can't be charged with a crime, it looks perfectly legal, huh?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44206021077291374412009-04-06T17:43:00.000-05:002009-04-06T17:43:00.000-05:00Don, if you are talking about Hilderbran, his bill...Don, if you are talking about Hilderbran, his bill (HB 3006) didn't make it off the House floor, much less pass.<BR/><BR/>The change was in SB 6 (Nelson), which dealt with a comprehensive change for CPS and offenses against children.<BR/><BR/>While Hilderbran has claimed credit for the bill, that's just a politician talking, since his bill failed.<BR/><BR/>Second, the law applies to everyone, and meets the constitutional test set out by SCOTUS.<BR/><BR/><BR/>Grits,<BR/><BR/>Do a bill search for HB 3006 in 2005. It doesn't matter what the purpose was for that bill - it didn't pass. It even states that in the article you linked to.<BR/><BR/>Second, you need to actually look at the SCOTUS opinion in <I>Church of Lukumi Babalu Aye v. City of Hialeah</I>, 508 U.S. 520 (1993), which is the leading opinion on this issue. It stated:<BR/><BR/>"...adverse impact will not always lead to a finding of impermissible targeting. For example, a social harm may have been a legitimate concern of government for reasons quite apart from discrimination.", <I>Lukumi</I>, at 535, citing <I>Reynolds v. United States</I>, 98 U.S. 145 (1879) and <I>Davis v. Beason</I>, 133 U.S. 333 (1890). <BR/><BR/>Note that both cases cited involved the prohibition of polygamy, and claimed to be targeted at the Mormons.<BR/><BR/>Second, SCOTUS noted:<BR/><BR/>"We turn next to a second requirement of the Free Exercise Clause, the rule that laws burdening religious practice must be of general applicability. All laws are selective to some extent, but categories of selection are of paramount concern when a law has the incidental effect of burdening religious practice. The Free Exercise Clause "protect[s] religious observers against unequal treatment," and inequality results when a legislature decides that the governmental interests it seeks to advance are worthy of being pursued only against conduct with a religious motivation." <I>Lukumi</I>, at 542-543 (citations omitted).<BR/><BR/>All bigamists in Texas face the same punishment, and the State has prosecuted others for the same offense without a religious motivation.<BR/><BR/>The Bigamy law in Texas is clearly constitutional. Your claim that it is not, like your earlier claims that the search was illegal, is not based on substantial case law, but on your own desires.TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-32666348499948783662009-04-06T16:15:00.000-05:002009-04-06T16:15:00.000-05:00We either endorse 'full majority' at a certain age...We either endorse 'full majority' at a certain age or we slip and slide through this ridiculous charade of 'you're adult for this but not for that'...<BR/><BR/>Full majority @ 18 seems reasonable, and cut the crap about teen brains still so undeveloped as to be unable to take decisions!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-58347770064491106262009-04-06T16:11:00.000-05:002009-04-06T16:11:00.000-05:00Bluesy, you're a piece of work. Even the bill auth...Bluesy, you're a piece of work. Even the bill author on raising the marriage age (Harvey Hildebran) said it was <A HREF="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/content/mobile/1,5620,700231012,00.html?printView=true" REL="nofollow">intended to target FLDS</A>, what's your source for denying it?<BR/><BR/>As for your examples of running for Governor and President, those are quite different from the examples related to vice crimes, aren't they? For starters, they're constitutional while the other ages change near constantly depending on public mores. Plus, those constitutional examples practically will affect very few people, while drinking/smoking ages, etc., affects the broad masses.<BR/><BR/>You're just like a one-man red herring factory, aren't you?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-74762403888192377592009-04-06T13:49:00.000-05:002009-04-06T13:49:00.000-05:00Oh come one Bluesy. Even the idiot who sponsored ...Oh come one Bluesy. Even the idiot who sponsored the bill admitted it was for FLDS. And that makes it unconstitutional.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902834245861000386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-58190159584996723292009-04-06T13:24:00.000-05:002009-04-06T13:24:00.000-05:00Anon 12:53,The age is defined.They can agreed to a...Anon 12:53,<BR/><BR/>The age is defined.<BR/><BR/>They can agreed to a plea bargain as an adult at age 17.<BR/><BR/>They can get married without consent at age 17.<BR/><BR/>They are no longer a child per the Family Code at age 18.<BR/><BR/>They can vote and buy cigarettes at 18 as well as enter into contracts and buy houses.<BR/><BR/>They can drink at 21.<BR/><BR/>They can run for Gov at age 30.<BR/><BR/>They can run for Pres at age 35.TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-34811123711161756892009-04-06T12:53:00.000-05:002009-04-06T12:53:00.000-05:00I agree with the idea of picking an age for "adult...I agree with the idea of picking an age for "adult" responsibility" and sticking with it.<BR/><BR/>At what age can a child enter into a binding contract for example buy a house - agree to a plea bargain - defend this country?<BR/><BR/>Legislators were elected to represent the people. Surely they can think about something that isn't directly related to getting re-elected!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-80137393454293055602009-04-06T12:52:00.000-05:002009-04-06T12:52:00.000-05:00The age of consent law was not targeted at the FLD...The age of consent law was not targeted at the FLDS, and in any case is not illegal.TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-31492073000517503332009-04-06T12:41:00.000-05:002009-04-06T12:41:00.000-05:00If the Legislature wants to keep cigarettes out of...If the Legislature wants to keep cigarettes out of high schools, why don't they simply pass a bill to keep cigarettes out of high schools? Seems to work (most of the time) for guns and sex offenders.<BR/><BR/>I love this bill only because it's the kind of ridiculous bill that will prompt a ridiculous debate that will gridlock the Legislature from messing up twelve other things.<BR/><BR/>I smoked my first cigarette when I was about twelve, and began smoking in earnest when I was fifteen. Pretty sure it was illegal then, too.Don Dicksonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15297382689845965952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-78115741957427795282009-04-06T12:17:00.000-05:002009-04-06T12:17:00.000-05:00You're making my head hurt! Stop making sense!You're making my head hurt! Stop making sense!Robert Langhamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16497658569363397644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-38516421074172829252009-04-06T11:41:00.000-05:002009-04-06T11:41:00.000-05:00I mean, aren't there oyster crimes that need enhan...I mean, aren't there oyster crimes that need enhancing? Some of them aren't even felonies yet.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902834245861000386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-52248038798311049322009-04-06T11:39:00.000-05:002009-04-06T11:39:00.000-05:00And don't forget, the marriage with consent of par...And don't forget, the marriage with consent of parents age was 14 before it was changed to illegally target the FLDS. The Texas Lege doesn't have to be rational. Raising smoking age to 19 doesn't make any more sense than most stuff they do. They say they want to keep tobacco out of high schools. Say whut? There aren't 19 year olds in high schools? Besides, they don't sell cigarettes in high schools anyway, do they? The younger kids got them before, they'll get them now if they want them. These people have some frickin' WORK they could be doing, seems to me.Donhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16902834245861000386noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-76344446892077246522009-04-06T11:01:00.000-05:002009-04-06T11:01:00.000-05:00There must be an echo in here; could have sworn I ...There must be an echo in here; could have sworn I made the same points at the bottom of your 'Romeo and Juliet' post a couple of days ago!sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1310875-help-and-advice-for-relatives-of-prisonersnoreply@blogger.com