tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post5472405981797952405..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Why can't the caged bird sing?Gritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-39209265226944631632007-09-11T19:11:00.000-05:002007-09-11T19:11:00.000-05:00Emily,I posted this on an older thread - contact S...Emily,<BR/>I posted this on an older thread - contact Steve Bercu for information on the Morales case. Steve runs the bookstore "Bookpeople," in Austin. He is the lawyer who brought the Morales case in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-67577076350120657712007-09-11T14:20:00.000-05:002007-09-11T14:20:00.000-05:00Actually, Emily, at one point at the end of the Cl...Actually, Emily, at one point at the end of the Clinton administration TYC got a six figure grant from USDOJ for art education, and <A HREF="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2007/04/tyc-youth-art.html" REL="nofollow">produced some neat stuff</A>. <BR/><BR/>Maybe they need to do some more grant writing, or maybe the Lege and admin just need to pony up.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-77912831034823531562007-09-11T13:04:00.000-05:002007-09-11T13:04:00.000-05:00Mart I and II have some murals on the walls, as I ...Mart I and II have some murals on the walls, as I recall, and there is some student artwork on display in the halls in Mart II. (Of course, the same display has been up for the last four or five months that I've been visiting...but somebody and some point did some art in Mart II.)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12916643458328253523noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-18659880702772133532007-09-10T22:17:00.000-05:002007-09-10T22:17:00.000-05:00We are funded in 08 to operate at 12:1, but I doub...We are funded in 08 to operate at 12:1, but I doubt we can hire all those people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44158917008823132422007-09-10T21:55:00.000-05:002007-09-10T21:55:00.000-05:008:26 - that is my point, exactly. Old Salty8:26 - that is my point, exactly. Old SaltyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-91658656548210040952007-09-10T20:26:00.000-05:002007-09-10T20:26:00.000-05:00If choirs, basketball or anything else is not incl...If choirs, basketball or anything else is not included in the school curiculum, there are no staff to do it. By running so short handed all the time, there are no extra staff to run Sally over to the gym to do a mural on the wall or wherever. You have to have extra staff to run kids to town to sing to the nursing home patients...MONEY, MONEY, MONEY. As long as Sen. Whitmire has doomed TYC to failure so that his contract cronies can eventually have all the kids, they will never appropriate enough money to adequately staff any facility.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-61299074385901275322007-09-10T20:10:00.000-05:002007-09-10T20:10:00.000-05:00In my opinion which doesn't count for much in TYC....In my opinion which doesn't count for much in TYC.<BR/><BR/>The first thing we have to fix is the unmet needs of the staff. Fix that get staff back on track with out the threat of closing facilities, loosing jobs, and beat down by all the overtime, where it is paid or comp time.<BR/><BR/>You can not fix kids if the staff is not fixed first. They are the leaders of these kids. They are the role models.<BR/><BR/>Once you fix the staff, then work on fixing the programs for the kids and all will come together like clock work.<BR/><BR/>Gang stuff, you have to stay on top of, no matter what kind of media it is put into. These kids most were born to a gang member family and those that were not, fell into their gangs for acceptance and someone to "care" about them. We all know that none of the acceptance and caring is what is really going on in gangs.<BR/><BR/>Mr.Henson you have wonderful ideas about taking the negative gang drawing and turning it into a positive and I believe it could work, but not in the enviroment these kids are in now. Its back to fixing the staff that work with these kids first. Right now everyone in TYC (I assume everyone who is not at the top of tyc)has unmet needs that needs to be met before they can succeed in turning kids around.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53826881120434528802007-09-10T12:24:00.000-05:002007-09-10T12:24:00.000-05:00Grits,Used to work at San Saba a while back. There...Grits,<BR/>Used to work at San Saba a while back. There was a choir program, a basketball team which left the facility to play away games, a garden, and we had so much artwork by students on the dorm bulletin boards they looked like the front of some peoples fridge.<BR/><BR/>No talking during meals was based on the fact that there were over 100 students at a time (sometimes more if a dorm filed in to eat a little early and had to wait for a dorm to leave to have a place to eat)and with that many students in one room from different dorms it was a prime time and place to pass communication about things that would affect safety. Assaults, fights and yes, riots, in the dining hall were guaranteed to produce serious injuries. Steel waist-high pipe seperating the chow line from the tables, table and chairs which were attached to the floor and so closely crowded together that responding to an incident was like running an obstacle course just to get to the other side of the room. The fact that in the dining hall students had hard trays they would throw or use as a club made any violence in that location very dangerous.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79110104662995995122007-09-10T07:37:00.000-05:002007-09-10T07:37:00.000-05:00I get it, but self expression is different from cr...I get it, but self expression is different from crime or violence. In fact, artistic expression can be an outlet for antisocial attitudes or dealing with a painful personal history that's psychologically healthy. By contrast, from what I can tell little about the TYC experience is psychologically healthy - it's just prison.<BR/><BR/>Not every TYC kid is a gang member by a long shot, and even gang members aren't throwaway kids. It's easy enough to set rules and make participation dependent on following them. But to not offer arts or music options at all or even let kids draw or sing for fear they'll sing or draw something gang related (or in the case of an earlier commenter, just "crap" you don't like) makes no sense at all.<BR/><BR/>Also, I've had TDCJ and TYC people try to tell me everything under the sun is a gang sign. One emailer a while back said a piece of graff I'd posted had a gang sign, and a quick Google found the same image was really a Mexican religious icon used in dozens of paintings going back nearly to the Spanish conquest. This is an overhyped problem. It's an excuse, not a reason.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-75096065245143473512007-09-10T07:01:00.000-05:002007-09-10T07:01:00.000-05:00To Grits at 6:22 a.m. "Besides, if the kid wants ...To Grits at 6:22 a.m. "Besides, if the kid wants to draw a Latin Kings crown, the image and idea are running through his head anyway, even if he says or draws nothing. Self expression gives a chance to see what the kid's thinking." Scott, you are smarter than that! You get it, I know you do.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51143328005524628002007-09-10T06:22:00.000-05:002007-09-10T06:22:00.000-05:00@9:08 - that's just an argument for having structu...@9:08 - that's just an argument for having structured arts as part of the curriculum. The kids in the TYC glee clubs Salty mentioned weren't singing inappropriate songs. And art instruction could have them drawing models or all sorts of things besides gang signs.<BR/><BR/>Plus even if they "slip in" a gang sign (and I've heard a LOT of people from TYC and TDCJ obviously overinterpret what constitutes a gang sign as basically anything they've ever seen on a tattoo), the truth is there has been no harm done. Maybe it's a chance to talk to the kid about what they drew and why, a learning experience instead of only an opportunity for punishment. <BR/><BR/>Besides, if the kid wants to draw a Latin Kings crown, the image and idea are running through his head anyway, even if he says or draws nothing. Self expression gives a chance to see what the kid's thinking. Also, maybe exposing them to other cool images and stuff to draw in a structured setting might inspire some to think differently. <BR/><BR/>BTW, I've got a poster of Byzanine art on my office wall that depicts a crown - you don't think ...?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-28393771501660650272007-09-09T22:22:00.000-05:002007-09-09T22:22:00.000-05:00Scott,With regard to my earlier post, those puniti...Scott,<BR/>With regard to my earlier post, those punitive measures were demanded by the legislators. They were not generated from within TYC. Old SaltyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-19427545046047352402007-09-09T21:08:00.000-05:002007-09-09T21:08:00.000-05:00Grits @ 3:39: "As for what they would sing, or pa...Grits @ 3:39: "As for what they would sing, or paint, etc., why do you care?" One reason we cared is that many TYC kids -- girls and boys -- are involved in gangs. Some of their "songs" and "art" is really communication with other gang members. We ran a contest at the facility I worked in to design a t-shirt to be used in a food drive, and the winning design contained a crown in the design (Latin Kings? I'm no gang expert), which ended up on the printed shirts. I never wore mine. Another contest we ran for the students was to design the cover of a folder for students' school work. Again, it was discovered that the "winner" had slipped in a gang symbol, so the design could not be used. No one ever fought over a Johnny Cash song, but the gang-involved students will fight over any perceived disrespect of their own gang.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-59002118774043416582007-09-09T19:29:00.000-05:002007-09-09T19:29:00.000-05:00Salty, this is a sad commentary, "We used to have ...Salty, this is a sad commentary, <BR/><BR/>"We used to have art programs, we used to have glee clubs and we used to send youth off-campus to sing at rest homes for the old folks. We rarely do those things any more. Why? Because we do not have the resources."<BR/><BR/>That's also pathetic about filling in the pool when the Red Cross certification program generated demonstrable results. That's exactly the kind of counterproductive, punitive mentality I think TYC has to find some way to get past. best,Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87375009574399105762007-09-09T18:36:00.000-05:002007-09-09T18:36:00.000-05:00@4:07, You'd be surprised what other people might ...@4:07, You'd be surprised what other people might know. Even some who don't have your job.<BR/><BR/>Also, TYC should be about rehabilitating youth. You seem to be about punishing them on behalf of the victims. I think that mindset is a big part of why TYC has high recidivism rates and does little to improve youth behavior - too many people there think it should be run like an adult prison, but that's a recipe for having youth re-offend as adults and remain a burden on the taxpayers. It's time for a new approach, if y'all only had the leaders to implement it.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-77093954992313323322007-09-09T18:25:00.000-05:002007-09-09T18:25:00.000-05:00There is an old axiom that you cannot have treatme...There is an old axiom that you cannot have treatment without control. The problem has been that with all the cuts that were made over the years by our friends in the legislature, TYC has been struggling just to have some semblance of control. When you cut money from the budget, while increasing the population of the kids served, what programs do you think are the first ones cut? We used to have art programs, we used to have glee clubs and we used to send youth off-campus to sing at rest homes for the old folks. We rarely do those things any more. Why? Because we do not have the resources. I remember in years past when legislators, especially Sen Whitmire complained about the cost per student at TYC as opposed to the cost per inmate at TDCJ. When Al Price was originally designed, it was supposed to have a swimming pool. Legislators raise hell about that and the pool was cancelled. Crockett used to have a pool, and it got filled in. Strangely enough, youth who went through Red Cross water safety training at Crockett had a much lower recidivism rate than those who had not. And they didn't all go out and get jobs as lifeguards. I think it was that intangible thing that comes with these kids having accomplished something that gives them the confidence that they might, just might be able to do something other than crime. One program that has continued in some places and has been very successful is the welding certification programs. Again, kids who pass their certification not only have excellent opportunities for employment, they have a sense of accomplishment. The same could happen with art and music. Old SaltyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-83361038892628337242007-09-09T16:07:00.000-05:002007-09-09T16:07:00.000-05:00If Johnny Cash was the CRAP of the day that might ...If Johnny Cash was the CRAP of the day that might insight violence on the dorm..then no it doesn't need to be sung. My comments were more to say Girls shouldn't get any different treatment that the boys. I'm sure their victims didn't get any special treatment from the girls. Like I said...go spend an hour or two on the dorms and then make comments..Nobody knows until they've been there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-85430339448944989852007-09-09T15:39:00.000-05:002007-09-09T15:39:00.000-05:00If the schedule is "structured," i.e., completely ...If the schedule is "structured," i.e., completely under the control of the agency, why wouldn't there be time for the arts? I think that means TYC has made a decision to exclude the arts from the structure of the day. The goal is to prep them for the real world, not to turn TYC into a TDCJ prep school.<BR/><BR/>That said, at least I'm glad someone has the guts to confirm that singing is actually a forbidden activity and the report wasn't inaccurate.<BR/><BR/>As for <I>what</I> they would sing, or paint, etc., why do you care? If it were C&W (think Johnny Cash) instead of rap there would still be violence and sex in music, since there's violence and sex in life, for good or ill, and therefore, inevitably, in the arts. <BR/><BR/>Finally, I disagree strongly that the lesson the state needs taught to TYC girls is "life is rough out there and ... NO one will hand them a beautiful, artistic life in the real world." To read your views, TYC should just tell them they're worthless, to shut up and take orders, and figure that's all they need to know. <BR/><BR/>Well never worry. Clearly TYC is providing that lesson. You can take credit for creating a great system. Mission accomplished, I guess, huh?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11470689625160360182007-09-09T13:18:00.000-05:002007-09-09T13:18:00.000-05:00The reason that the kids are not allowed to go off...The reason that the kids are not allowed to go off and sing and blow off steam is because.#1- they are in a structured schedule and no one is allowed to go off by themselves to blow off steam and #2-the CRAP they would want to sing and do constantly rap and sing is gang songs, violence insiting verses and start upheaval. I wish that some of these people that want all this crap would come on a dorm for a couple of hours...a couple of hours is all they could take. These kids are constantly banging on walls rhytms and rapping. If they are asked to be quite, it lasts for about 2 minutes..mostly because alot of these kids are ADHD that are NOT at Corsicana. Pity the poor girls...balony..I'm a mom, grandma, aunt and great aunt to girls, but I don't believe that the girls need different, less structured activity. They all need to know that life is rough out there and be taught that NO one will hand them a beautiful, artistic life in the real world.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11631832828324932182007-09-09T10:57:00.000-05:002007-09-09T10:57:00.000-05:00One thing about tyc and how we deal with this popu...One thing about tyc and how we deal with this population of law breaker that has stuck in my mind for a long time is this.<BR/><BR/>Do we want to make TYC a nice easy place to be for these kids? Don't we want to have rules that are enforced to the T, so that these kids never want to be locked up again.<BR/><BR/>Should we show them what "TDCJ" is really like if they continue the life of crime?<BR/><BR/>Some kids will tell you this is a day care and there is nothing to being in TYC.<BR/><BR/>Are we failing them by not being "tuff" on them so that they will NEVER want to return to a jail setting again?<BR/><BR/>Can we not be tuff and nuture at the same time for change in these kids?<BR/><BR/>If we make it an easy ride does that not say , do it again, it an't so bad being locked up if I get caught? I think this is the way most of these young kids think about TYC at this point. I know I have had many, many, kids with that attitude or making that statement about TYC.<BR/><BR/> If we are tuff on the kids, then some say that is abuse. Well isn't it abuse if we teach them that jail is OK?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79869643723614725612007-09-09T10:46:00.000-05:002007-09-09T10:46:00.000-05:00IMO, they don't realize what they can do with this...IMO, they don't realize what they can do with this talent in a positve way. They have never been told or taught that they have talent. No one has helped them explore all of the oppertuntities there really are for them even before they were locked up.<BR/> I think that is where TYC is failing these talented kids. I don't think it has to do with respect or value on their part, if they have never been praised and led down the road to success. All they know is tagging and art as a way of release for them. Job oppertunties has never been brought up on the home front for many of the kids. In some of these home situations earning money is only by working at a low paying job or by breaking the law. Remember I said SOME of the homes. <BR/> They don't know about graphic design jobs, mural paintings,and so forth. We just need to try and make them understand that they can use this talent in a positive way and earn a good living. There are alot of the kids who are college material if they would straighten out their lives and see where crime does not pay.<BR/> Maybe I am just a dreamer on this, but if we get one saved that is one more that will be a productive citizen in this world we live in.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-86793435055675087722007-09-09T00:29:00.000-05:002007-09-09T00:29:00.000-05:00There are murals on the wall of the cafeteria at M...There are murals on the wall of the cafeteria at Mart I done by a student. I'd say that qualifies as art.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51518258734234349082007-09-08T16:55:00.000-05:002007-09-08T16:55:00.000-05:00"Responses so far indicate the availability of art..."Responses so far indicate the availability of art and music is extremely sparse."<BR/><BR/>OTOH, all indications are every unit has plenty of pepper spray! :-/<BR/><BR/>"so much more is out there for a truly good artist. Sad they don't get it."<BR/><BR/>Hmmmm. Does anyone think there's a relation between the "extremely sparse" arts and music availability at TYC and the fact that the kids there don't respect and value their own artistic skills?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53374886081600255842007-09-08T15:13:00.000-05:002007-09-08T15:13:00.000-05:00The talent some of these kids have in ART is amazi...The talent some of these kids have in ART is amazing! If only they could figure out that this talent with some formal training(some do not even need that)could make them a hell of a living in lots of areas in the workforce. People who paint murals make megga bucks,designs on cars and bikes,signs and so much more is out there for a truly good artist. Sad they don't get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-54774621343474562712007-09-08T09:59:00.000-05:002007-09-08T09:59:00.000-05:00I'd like to know the source who told the ACLU memb...I'd like to know the source who told the ACLU member that girls can't sing. That's trumped up bullshit. Hell they sing in that shower and on that toliet.<BR/><BR/>Art? Hell give a kid a pen in security and you'll see the art.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com