tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post6134686925771501196..comments2024-03-15T05:45:01.402-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Why so few DWIs in Berlin? Public transportGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-77851350092839267462010-09-13T07:54:17.870-05:002010-09-13T07:54:17.870-05:00I think there are cultural issues at work here as ...I think there are cultural issues at work here as well. <br /><br />I live in Ireland where DWI or DUI or simply "drink driving" has been a major problem. The Road Safety Authority has placed a major emphasis on campaigns that leave the public in no doubt as to how immoral and criminal DUI is... and this has been part of the reason behind a significant drop in RTA deaths. Better infrastructure, better cars, higher safety design in cars and less idiotic driving have all helped in this regard...<br /><br />Germans in particular are very law abiding, for example they will not cross a road at a pedestrian crossing unless the lights tell them to do so, even if there is no traffic at all. They will wait for the light to go green before walking across the road. This, needless to say, would not happen in Ireland where jaywalking (your term) is one of the traditional hazards in urban driving!<br /><br />FWIW<br /><br />Kieran<br /><br />BTW, if anyone can help me with a bit of research into current - and I stress current - Mexican police force structures and processes, I would be eternally grateful! ;0)Kieran Hanrahanhttp://www.tknlgy.eunoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-20693283278360982502010-09-08T00:22:38.622-05:002010-09-08T00:22:38.622-05:00Perhaps we should ask Scott, as he is our man on t...Perhaps we should ask Scott, as he is our man on the ground at the moment?<br /><br />Does Germany look clean, well run and prosperous (lots of construction work and few empty shops)? I wont ask if the Germans look happy, because they rarely do, but do they look healthy?sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1730441-crime-human-rightsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-69738883533619646902010-09-07T20:35:59.326-05:002010-09-07T20:35:59.326-05:00Wench- Yea, I noticed the wall came down (Thanks t...Wench- Yea, I noticed the wall came down (Thanks to Ronald Reagan). <br />I also noticed that every former communist county survives because of capitalism and taxes.<br />Google "East Tax" "Germany".....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-13664963024635232282010-09-07T11:33:47.831-05:002010-09-07T11:33:47.831-05:00Pirate ~ GDP is the nation as a whole. A high stan...Pirate ~ GDP is the nation as a whole. A high standard of living is subjective. Healthcare, employment (or risk of unemployment) the ability to attain the things individual value - those are what I would use to measure whether a country had a better standard of living than another. <br /><br />Of course, many people in America will dismiss the whole debate as academic, simply because they see every European country as a Socialist state and close their eyes and ears to anything positive that may come from them.sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1770057-riding-a-bicycle-to-worknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-18698965980574660002010-09-07T02:54:44.611-05:002010-09-07T02:54:44.611-05:00Sunray, per capita GDP is higher in the US than in...Sunray, per capita GDP is higher in the US than in Germany, in every measurement I've ever seen. <br /><br /><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita" rel="nofollow">here</a>PirateFriedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14490889950268741305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-30143918996623790252010-09-06T23:17:38.187-05:002010-09-06T23:17:38.187-05:00I lived in an inner ring suburb of Cleveland where...I lived in an inner ring suburb of Cleveland where the whole town had been built before 1930, and it really did seem like there was a bar on every corner. And people did walk from their houses to go drink. <br /><br />The Milwaukee Sentinel did an article in 2008 as part of a series on drinking and drunk driving in WI, and discussed a town's efforts at using a shuttle bus to curb drunk driving. You can read it <a href="http://www.jsonline.com/news/30565984.html" rel="nofollow"> here</a>.Kerryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07382434220023284946noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-1302960552215338182010-09-06T12:02:36.915-05:002010-09-06T12:02:36.915-05:00anon @ 9.11 - it may have escaped your attention, ...anon @ 9.11 - it may have escaped your attention, but the wall came down 20 years ago. They are a unified Germany, probably with a better standard of living that most citizens of Texas. <br /><br />It's not paradise, but it's one of the most efficient countries in Europe, and their secret is that most German citizens don't have credit cards. If they want something, they work longer hours to pay for it. They also don't purchase property as a rule, they rent. Only the UK and Ireland are different to the rest of Europe in that respect.sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1641834-living-unconventional-lifestylesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-68630257801705892572010-09-06T10:22:14.593-05:002010-09-06T10:22:14.593-05:00Also, here's (an admittedly anecdotal) view on...Also, here's (an admittedly anecdotal) view on DUI in Germany, http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/expat2.html<br /><br />So even without a threat of prison it's not like the charge is a cakewalk.<br /><br />I also found some links that indicate driving without a license in Germany is an offense that makes the Texas driver responsibility program look downright misery. 3-5k EUR fine, minimum 5 year loss of driving priviledge (and even then no guarantee that they'll let you have it). Along with the fact, of course, that Germany has much tougher standards for getting a license to begin with.Soronel Haetirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11639906179427371695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53256252245808271772010-09-06T09:11:07.125-05:002010-09-06T09:11:07.125-05:00Public transportation won't make it without a ...Public transportation won't make it without a large taxi cab network.<br />Taxis in Texas all want the big fair, they don't want to drive someone a few miles to their home.<br />There are not taxis on every street corner either.<br /><br />Most people in East Germany don't own cars. That's why no DWI.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53682702040912392302010-09-05T17:14:56.161-05:002010-09-05T17:14:56.161-05:00The big question is how many lives would be saved ...The big question is how many lives would be saved and how much money would be spent on public transportation to get those results. Not sure most Americans would support the trade-off if they saw it.PirateFriedmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14490889950268741305noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-46024704494248165672010-09-05T07:43:49.120-05:002010-09-05T07:43:49.120-05:00Grits, it looks like you picked up a spammer, chu...Grits, it looks like you picked up a spammer, chunxue.JohnTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-38700020397187887152010-09-05T01:51:06.583-05:002010-09-05T01:51:06.583-05:00the biggest problem with fixing almost anything in...the biggest problem with fixing almost anything in this country is the first thing you would have to do is get the politicians to both THINK about the public AND get them to stop giving away the public funds to the world and STEALING THE REST.rodsmithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-78411722126242903432010-09-03T21:30:15.954-05:002010-09-03T21:30:15.954-05:00I think the letter I sent you about my community L...I think the letter I sent you about my community Law enforcement that endagers the lives of everybody.And encourages neighbor's to snitch on neighbor's shows were are values are about handling this problem.In the toilet!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-69753413916239813602010-09-03T18:15:38.137-05:002010-09-03T18:15:38.137-05:00I would again say it comes down to population dens...I would again say it comes down to population density. Everything I've ever read about public transport indicates that it is a far more important factor than total population served.<br /><br />And here Berlin leaves Austin (and most U.S. cities for that matter) far behind.<br /><br />From Wikipedia:<br /><br />Austin:<br />Population (2008) 786,382 <br />Area: 251.5 sq mi <br />Average density: 3,126.6/sq mi<br /><br />Berlin:<br />Population (2009) 3,439,100 <br />Area: 344.3 sq mi<br />Average density: 9,987.7/sq mi<br /><br /><br />I tried doing a search to come up with more than just average density looking for density distribution but couldn't find anything my screen reader could deal with. I would suspect that not only is Berlin more dense as demonstrated from the raw numbers above but that the actual density is higher still, with more people in more concentrated areas, while Austin would be closer to matching the average density across much of its area.<br /><br />This would have to make me question even neighborhood bars as a solution. I suspect density plays into success for such a market as well, though perhaps the requirements aren't as high as that needed for mass transit.Soronel Haetirhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11639906179427371695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-63658416681698106852010-09-03T05:19:02.838-05:002010-09-03T05:19:02.838-05:00With all the bshitz that flows throughout all of A...With all the bshitz that flows throughout all of Austin, I'm certain the "utility tunnel" isn't too big.<br /><br />PlatoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-64857178351159169472010-09-03T00:53:43.982-05:002010-09-03T00:53:43.982-05:00Thanks Sunray, I of course meant the size of the p...Thanks Sunray, I of course meant the size of the population.<br /><br />Jeff, fwiw Houston leads the country in DWI fatality rates, and had more than 10,000 DWI arrests last year compared to 1/5 that in Berlin, which is roughly the same size. See <a href="http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6467773.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>.<br /><br />Doran, I'm not against water and utility tunnels per se, but the one from Lake Travis a) goes under environmentally sensitive land with endangered cave species, b) costs three times what building a plant with the same capacity would on Lady Bird Lake or at Decker Lake, and c) is unnecessary since peak use this summer has hovered around 100 million gallons below capacity and we won't need more for 20 years or more.<br /><br />9:48, I make no claim at having researched it thoroughly, I was just reacting to a conversation with a cop while on vacation. <a href="http://www.ehow.com/list_6555469_german-drunk-driving-laws.html" rel="nofollow">This source</a> seems to corroborate the fine amounts but adds that Germany also suspends drivers licenses for the offense. (See <a href="http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/pub/dwiothercountries/dwiothercountries.html" rel="nofollow">here</a> for more detail.) We suspend licenses here, too, of course, if folks don't pay the surcharges, but that hasn't proved to be much of a deterrent.<br /><br />Good comments, folks.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-49232170960070851532010-09-03T00:51:12.008-05:002010-09-03T00:51:12.008-05:00Wow! too far with that 50 miles...Wow! too far with that 50 miles...escalante bloggerhttp://www.escalantebloggers.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-86998304423455419122010-09-03T00:20:49.874-05:002010-09-03T00:20:49.874-05:00"I'd mentioned last month on Grits that E..."I'd mentioned last month on Grits that England, too, has surprisingly low DWI death rates for a country nearly three times the size of Texas, and I can't help but think that public transport in the major cities is the big reason."<br /><br /><br />Scott, England is not nearly 3 times the size of Texas. Geographically it's the other way round. We have 3 times as many people here though:<br /><br />population of TX - around 25 million<br />population of UK - around 65 million<br /><br />The UK did have a big problem with drunk driving in the 1970s and before. It has taken a long but successful shift in attitutdes and some very hard-hitting publicity campaigns that are probably too graphic for many Americans to allow on TV let alone in their schools to turn people's behaviour. It has worked though.sunray's wenchhttp://www.helium.com/items/1730441-crime-human-rightsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70186412208596163022010-09-02T18:20:25.059-05:002010-09-02T18:20:25.059-05:00How do the DWI rates in the major Texas cities sta...How do the DWI rates in the major Texas cities stack up against cities like New York, D.C. and San Francisco that good (for the US) public transportation systems?Jeffhttp://jeffkramerlaw.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-10336792416245957852010-09-02T18:17:44.882-05:002010-09-02T18:17:44.882-05:00DWI's are a great source of revenue for law en...DWI's are a great source of revenue for law enforcement along with asset forfeiture and, of course, the comparatively lame speeding tickets so there is no amount of logic that will make this change which is unfortunate. One thing to consider in this scenario is the lack of gangs to claim a stretch of a route as theirs or create fear from their activities in Europe as they do here in America. Personally, I feel the latter is a result of the police being obsessed with catching drunks instead of chasing real criminals, the one's that kill! The list of our short comings grows larger as time goes on and the "M.A.D.D.s" and "D.A.R.E.s" are part of the problem, second only to religion, and not the solution. A good start would be to remove corporate sponsorship from the candidates that seek votes by courting organized groups. More down to the issue at hand, get rid of the religiously driven yet outrageously stupid wet/dry area concept and remove draconian zoning restrictions just because it's near a school or how about removing the damn school since all of these ridiculous laws and nonsensical rules are only driving us all to drink!<br /><br />-GregAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-35226859123194901862010-09-02T09:48:24.461-05:002010-09-02T09:48:24.461-05:00I don't know about the accuracy of the info pr...I don't know about the accuracy of the info presented in the article. DWI in Germany and other parts of Europe bring swift, sure, and staggering punishments. It's been quite awhile, but as I seem to recall, you could lose your driving privileges for life in Germany. Maybe that's changed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-26173828922609118562010-09-02T09:43:38.361-05:002010-09-02T09:43:38.361-05:00We need to put about 50 miles of subway under Dall...We need to put about 50 miles of subway under Dallas.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-76856375289002434482010-09-02T09:28:46.596-05:002010-09-02T09:28:46.596-05:00This post and the comments are bereft of logical t...This post and the comments are bereft of logical thinking.<br /><br />First of all, anyone who has lived in Europe or Latin America notices that there are far fewer cops poking their noses in people's business than here in the USA. In any case, the number of arrests for DWI is proof of nothing.<br /><br />In Texas, you have to get in your car on Saturday night and go out to buy a sixpack so as to have a beer on Sunday morning. In Berlin, on Sunday morning, you can have a beer in a Biergarten while the women and the children they force to go with them occupy a few seats in the government-supported churches. Fair enough.<br /><br />In parts of Texas, you have to drive over a hundred miles to get a drink. In Brazil, Munich and Berlin, there's a pub on almost every corner.<br /><br />In Texas, where only Bud, Miller and Coors are for sale (think West Texas), you have to drink 12 beers to get a modicum of taste. In Munich, in contrast, one beer is a tasty meal in itself!<br /><br />In Germany, you can skip that church and drink beer as an adult along with you parents in that Biergarten on Sunday morning at age 14. Amerikans, in contrast, are able to extend their childhood until age 21.<br /><br />I wish we could send the Mad Mothers off to Germany. Until then we need to treat them as a domestic terrorist organization! In any case, I'd like to get ahold of one of those Arson Licenses that JohnT mentioned in his comment.jimbinohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03416364723697446318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-69624087548412457132010-09-02T08:29:57.375-05:002010-09-02T08:29:57.375-05:00Another factor that may be at play is the rate of ...Another factor that may be at play is the rate of alcoholism in various ethnic groups. In some countries (France, Germany, Italy) where drinking has been culturally institutionalized for milennia the rate of alcholism is comparatively low, while in others it is high.<br /><br />It's no accident that African Americans and Native American Indians, who were only recently exposed to spirits have high rates of alcohol abuse.<br /><br />As the greatest melting pot in the world it's not as all surprising Amercans have alot of "problem drinkers."<br /><br />Or, in laymens' terms; some people just can't handle their booze. <br /><br />Great post, Scott. Now, quit working and get back to loafing.Zeetynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-84832268793582648972010-09-02T08:26:40.254-05:002010-09-02T08:26:40.254-05:00As a Texas JP I've really enjoyed your comment...As a Texas JP I've really enjoyed your comments on the Driver Responsibility Program. I doubt Germany has changed much since I spent three years there in the late 70s. Check out how they handle uninsured motorist, driving while license invalid, etc..<br />As another commenter mentioned, the certainty of the sanctions is what dictated my fellow military peers followed the laws in Germany.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com