The Texas Public Policy Foundation has issued a new report, "Reclaiming Texas Youth: Applying lessons from RECLAIM Ohio to Texas" (written by two academics from the Center for Criminal Justice Research at the University of Cincinnati), which a senate staffer tells me is "similar to our proposal on TYC and TJPC."
At first glance much of this looks quite reasonable, though I've not had a chance to read the document thoroughly. But my brief review also highlighted a nagging concern I've had about Texas' proposals: The success of shifting to local programs, measured in recidivism rates, said TPPF, depended entirely on the quality of programming offered to youth: "High quality programs had lower recidivism rates than programs of lesser quality."
So key to enacting such a transformation while protecting public safety would be eliminating pockets of "lesser quality" programming, ensuring adequate quality control at county youth programs and private facilities with which they contract. Right now in Texas, many county youth detention facilities - particularly those following "boot camp" models - don't even pretend to follow the types of best practices described in Ohio by the TPPF report.
It's also worth mentioning that Mike Ward at the Austin Statesman recently criticized Ohio's juvie program for "permitting children to be routinely shackled, mandating that children accused of certain crimes be charged as adults and by not ensuring that all children accused of crimes get lawyers.'” So Texas should definitely be selective about what policies it copies from Ohio, or anywhere else.
That said, the overall structure of the Ohio's financing mechanisms for local programming seem sound and generally applicable here, particularly if they're piloted by volunteers and phased in over several years where community resources are lacking, as was the case in the Buckeye State. Anyone with a stake in reforms at TYC and TJPC should definitely read this document, which I'm told is indicative of the general direction legislators would like to go, though not a written-in-stone blueprint.
RELATED: Looks like the TYC/TJPC Sunset bill is up next week in House Corrections; it's HB 3689 "Relating to abolishing the Texas Youth Commission and the Texas Juvenile Probation Commission and transferring the powers and duties of those agencies to the newly created Texas Juvenile Justice Department and to the functions of the independent ombudsman for the Texas Youth Commission."
IMO, what works in Ohio should stay in Ohio.
ReplyDeleteNo, you're wrong on this. Both TYC and TJPC have proven to be disasters and a good fix is now at hand. I am so disappointed in the leadership of TYC, or is the lack of leadership. A few programs, very few, are worth keeping, but most should be abolished by summer.
ReplyDeleteWant to see how TYC is failing still? http://www.chron.com/databases/texasstatesalaries
ReplyDeleteSee central office pay on link above. just look at first page. Time to stop the madness!! Folk who work with kids keep getting dissed!!!!! Why dont someone listen . . .
worse, when you sort by salary over $50,000, check who's making bucks for nothing
ReplyDeleteOMG. Doesn't even Whitmire care anymore?? Sad.
ReplyDeleteWow. I had a look at those salaries. I am blown away. Some (maybe many) of those who are making big bucks are doing zilch for these kids. I realize cost of living in Austin is higher, but...if you were actually advocating for these kids and making a difference, I wouldn't begrudge you that cashola. However, there are plenty of people working in the trenches who are making considerably less for many, many more hours of work. Mind you, some of those people in the trenches are degreed at a higher level than many CO employees who are sucking up a lot of the TYC budget, but those degreed people in the trenches have to put up with the ridiculous decisions made by the people making the big bucks. What a strange system. Whatever Ohio is doing, it can't be worse than what we have.
ReplyDeleteI know some of the wages on the web site are far less that what those folks are actually making. Guess what their updated pay is?? That would blow you away especially when so many don't work at all. Just take a look next time you come to the office and see what is really happening here. What a sham!!
ReplyDeleteHell fire all of the felons, that will fix everything at TYC.
ReplyDeleteYou field people just don't know when to stop bitching. We, some anyway, here in Austin keep you field people out of trouble. If you didn't have us here, to look after your screw-ups, many jobs would have been lost even faster than they have. Grow up, face the real world and stop the constant complaints about the folks protecting your jobs. If you knew how much we put up with in CO, you wouldn't be complaining.
ReplyDeletejust remember when your ragging on teachers salaries that they are NOT SET BY TYC, they are based on the school districts pay for the area that the TYC facility is located.
ReplyDeleteThis is an invasion of privacy and will only be used as it is used here on this blog. To gripe and goan about what someone is making. If you feel the need to tell me to find another job, save your time, I have found another one, but my salary will increase.
Here's an idea: GO TO COLLEGE for 4 years, then gripe about what teachers and/or other professionals make. It is not an easy task. College is hard work and it's VERY expensive...it is also available to anyone who feels like busting their butts for several years. Don't gripe about what others do, when you have no idea what kind of hard work and determination it takes to get there.
ReplyDelete10:44/3-27, Don't patronize the field people by saying you saved their jobs!! You greedy people got raises every six months. You don't want to go there. The field has always been underpaid and underrated by central office. You look at us like we are of no value and job protection is dependent on who it is! Let's not forget you all are the masters of covering up, which is the reason TYC is in such a disgrace!! The field continues to be downsized and soon you won't be able to justify all those jobs in central office!!
ReplyDeleteYou central office people need to remember that if it weren't for us field staff, even you wouldn't have a job. We know how much you have to put up with; and how much you make, but you don't have to work for cheats up there. Get a real job and make a difference. Then maybe you will know why "we" are working for those youth committed to TYC. By keeping on working up there, you are only serving to promote the continued imcompetence in CO. It should be severly cut or eliminated totally. Truth is spoken.
ReplyDeleteGee, first the Missouri model and now the Ohio!! No wonder TYC is in shambles. When will someone approve "a model" that will work for juvies in Texas? Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the youth are suffering for lack of a program and employees for lack of direction.
ReplyDeleteLack of programs might have been the reason the boy at Crockett State School committed suicide. So sad. What is the spin CO will put on that lack? Lack of their own oversight certainly.
ReplyDeleteThe Crockett incident can be blamed on Crockett employees, not CO. We weren't there...you were you were in charge of supervision. Some of us in CO are tired of making excuses for field staff, that allow abuse and mishaps all over the state. We provide direction and guidance, however, we can't get some field staff to practice what we preach. You can lead a dog to water...can't force them to drink. Get over it and start supporting CO, where the real world goes on.
ReplyDeleteDitto to 12:17... it gets old. Would you like a little cheese with that whine 10:54 a.m.? Lack of oversight... is that what you need, more oversight? I'm sure your Superintendent would love that, as if we don't already nick pick the hell out of those facilities already. But go tell your Superintendent you feel like you need more Central Office supervision. Run along now...
ReplyDeleteCO should be dismantled and placed out in the field among the peons who will not drink the murky water they are being led to.
ReplyDeleteLeave an office for executive commissioner and her immediate staff. Send purchasers, HR, finance, maintenance, accounting and all the other departments to the field. There is enough of them to place one in each department at all the facilities and then let the rest go on to better paying jobs.
CO employees have always thought they were without sin, thus the casting of stones at the field. However, downsizing is coming, it can't be helped the population and number of employees is decreasing as we speak, and the glass house will shatter!! They can't remain fat forever.
CO has been threatened with fat reduction for years, but wait and see....very little CO fat will take place. They are protected by some in the lege, even thought the lege grunts at them at times. The fools that stay in the field, rather than get into the gravy at CO, will continue to be the area to take blame and cuts; so grow up and get over it.
ReplyDeleteGrits,
ReplyDeleteI really do wish the majority of the TYC employees that post on this blog would go and create a Let's Bash TYC Blog somewhere else.
There are some real issues that need a place for discussion in regards to what may or may not occur this legislative session with TYC and TJPC. Unfortunately, that can't take place here because every time you post an article about that topic it quickly becomes a bitch session for TYC employees. Then you come in and shut down the discussion. It's a real shame.
I have a suggestion for you TYC employees that come to this blog and start pointing fingers, placing blame or try to call out specific facilities about how crappy they are running things. You really are showing exactly why TYC is failing and why it should be abolished and replaced with another system.
You are a horrible representation of exactly the kind of people that are running things both at CO and out in the field.
I'm sure the lege will appreciate your comment!
ReplyDeleteAmen 6:30.
ReplyDeleteI think all the CO people at TYC should have their offices moved out into the units. They need to see firsthand whether or not they are making good decisions. We've got Skype, Twitter, Instant Messenger, and web conferencing in just about any configuration you can imagine. It's time to drag TYC into the 21st century. Let's move them out of their ivory towers and into the units with the rest of the TYC employees. Just imagine all the overhead and office space the agency will save.
ReplyDelete6:30 pm, Thank you, I agree, you can not come here anymore and get information on anything. I have stopped reading this blog and only come over to see the topic that is posted on TYC to see what the leg is doing now.
ReplyDeleteI would want Grits to continue to keep us informed and not take that part away. I agree that the bashers are getting very old. The place sucks and we all know it, but there is something about going on and on about a bad topic that gets old real quick. After awhile it has no value at all to what is said.
3/28/2009 07:56:00 PM,
ReplyDeleteYou say you want to keep up with what's wrong with TYC. Here it is! The lege can do whatever it wants. But, the real problem lies with the incompetence in the CO and the units themselves. You have an agency full of people who can't or won't work with each other. Either because they don't want to, or they are lousy at their jobs. In my opinion, you don't have to like someone to work with them. But, they have to at least be competent, and not have some other agenda they are pursuing.
Let's look at the proposals. They do have some similiarities with Reclaim Ohio but applied to Texas. Local plans to keep kids from TYC are designed to do just that. Each program will develop ways to treat kids and rehabilitate them, not incarcerate. Legislative staffers asked for these plans and they received excellent pilot program proposals.
ReplyDeleteThe CO/Units argument will never die. It just really is not important here. I don't know what posting an old link to old salaries has to do with the topic. There are people in central office who make too much money. There are a people in the field that are dead weight and make too much money. The field does tend to get the short end of the stick. It is scary to read about central office staff "keeping you field staff out of trouble." I think way too much of that goes on. Isn't that what got TYC in the spotlight anyway? Isn't that why we have such a high Peter Principle in TYC?
ReplyDeleteThe Ohio model is old news. We had a bunch of Ohioans come in way back when. I think if you look at the consultants hired by TYC and the ledge back in 2007 you will see that many were from Ohio (None from Missouri by the way).
I think now that we are a legislative session removed we can refocus and understand that we are were we are because of the governors and the legislatures. They expanded TYC and then underfunded it. They demand reform and then want to cut the budget. Ohio makes a great point that there reforms were based on the quality of services provided. If high quality services were being provided in the counties then why do we have their kids in TYC? I am all for prevention but what programs are being put into place to ensure consistent programming? I am not sure I agree with previous posts about basing juvenile justice on grant based funding. All that really means is temporary shoe string programs that will never attract committed professionals because the well from which the funds are drawn continuously dries up, thanks to our state government.
At some point the citizens of the state will have to hold the legislators accountable. Quality of programming is directly related to funding. The legislators need to fund TYC to the point that you can keep highly qualified PROFESSIONAL staff to run the show. The correctional wing of TYC has a stronghold on the meaningful administrative positions in TYC. This needs to change.
The whole reason we are looking at Ohio is because they use a similar model as Texas. They use high school/GED level staff as JCO's. Missouri use Bachelor's degrees.
Look at Ohio. they committed almost 1500 youth to their version of TYC in 2006. 1500!!! They are half the population of Texas!
I'm disappointed in your comment Harry, but I understand.
ReplyDeletePlease inform me of this quote and how it applies today "The correctional wing of TYC has a stronghold on the meaningful administrative positions in TYC. This needs to change."
ReplyDeleteThe correctional wing created CoNEXTions and the current programming? I was under the impression that correctional staff would hold youth accountable is this taking place at your facility? There is no accountability and if we had just a little we would fair better that what we are currently doing. It appears to me that the professionals that were brought in from Maryland and Arizona to help run TYC have this boat lost at sea
They came here with issues hanging in their own states.
ReplyDeleteLets get Ray Brookins and John Paul Hernandez convincted NOW. Enough is Enough.
NOW.
NO More EXCUSES.
whitsfoe said...
ReplyDelete"I'm disappointed in your comment Harry, but I understand."
Which comment? I thought the idea of dispersing central office personnel out into the units is a GREAT idea. Or perhaps, you don't agree with my comment regarding personnel not being able to work together. It's true! Just talk to these people. After a few years of getting to know them, you will soon realize that the well-being of the youth and the agency in general is low on their list of priorities. There were many good programs initiated at TYC. But, until you have the resources to impliment them, and people working together to make them work, they won't happen. The lege can pass all the legislation they want to. But, until you address this particular problem, nothing will improve.
D.Harry, I hate to admit it but your correct. From what I see everyday, we have Connextions but it is only on paper and only to say we are doing it. It is not happening on the student to staff side.
ReplyDeleteOnly a few are trying to work this program with the kids. The rest are either looking the other way, letting behaviors go, or ramping up kids to send them to security. Most attitudes are " afraid that if they do anything to a kid they will be walked off campus" so for fear of losing the job, the kid does what he wants.
Kids are in control of what ever situation at hand. Most staff will tell you, screw it not dealing with this today. Very few are actually trying to talk to kids to de escalte behaviors but are provoking them with yelling and mouthing back at them. Includes all staff not just JCO's.
Now, the kids are not working this program or trying to work it either. Of course they have no direction or a desire to have a directon. They will tell you what you have to do before you can send them to ISS or security. They are working the program to benifit them.
So your right, until you weed out all of those who are there to feed the family only, this program will never work. TYC needs to be closed and start it up all over with the right personal. That my friend is a pipe dream.
Very interesting report that mirrors what we've seen thus far in the Texas discussion. It's obvious the lege players have been drawing on the Ohio model in their thinking for some time.
ReplyDeleteWe get a lot of detail about cost savings, funding formulas, and outcomes for different offender populations.
However, my original response to the Texas county proposals still holds here. We get very little, if any, concrete description of the county programs themselves. Reading this report, I still have no idea what works for which populations in which settings.
Really the Texas Public Policy Forum should consider a follow-up publication that examines specific interventions / programs more closely.
As is, the entire discussion operates at a very abstract level with aggregate statistics standing in for needed details. What is here is good, don't get me wrong, but we need much more information to evaluate RECLAIM or its fitness accordingly.
Contrast with the Blue Ribbon report which does give some of this sort of information.
BB
To those disappointed in TYC employees posting on this blog.
ReplyDeleteThis is the only avenue that employees have to air what really ails TYC and give it the have a chance to be read by the powers that be. When the complaining starts to have actual names and/or insults, then it should be shut down. There is a common thread that resonates from these comments, there is no communication from CO to the field and if there is, it probably stops at someone's desk and employees are kept in the dark. They are obviously tired of the secrecy. The higher up you are on the food chain, the more they hang on to information, it gives them power over their staff and thus the determination that they are on a "need to know basis."
As for working to feed the family, that's the reason everyone works at any type of job. It bottoms down to $$. In defense of employees, TYC has some of the best in the field, in spite of all the negativity, they show up to work every day, at least at our facility. Don't dump them all in the same barrel, not a good thing for morale.
TYC has some GREAT employees. As a special ed advocate, I've noted their staff of diagnosticians has the best I have even seen in the state. There are also some great teachers, JCOs, and volunteers. And, some good CO personnel as well. From what I can tell, the person that came down from CO to Al Price to serve as a temp principal is worth her weight in gold. But, it only takes a few bad apples to spoil the barrel. And, no matter what program you impliment, or from what state you get it, it won't work without sufficient resources and people working together.
ReplyDeleteBut, some of these good people have been hanging in there for almost three years without a pay increase. Believe me, out in the real world, they could make more money with less work. The only thing that keeps them hanging on is so they can finish their retirement. But, some of these professionals have decided the grief just isn't worth it, and are leaving anyway.
Whatever "model" they decide to adopt needs to include a substantial pay increase for ALL PROFESSIONAL personnel, and it needs to be given time and resources to succeed.
All employees need a pay increase in TYC, not just JCO staff. Professionals, accounting clerks, maintenance staff, warehouse staff, etc, etc. The field never gets raises.
ReplyDeleteIt is curious to me that prior to the Brookins/Hernandez scandal, there apparently was not much complaint from TYC, TJPC, local probation department, TEA, ISD's or the courts about how dysfunctional the State's policies were for Texas Youth. Once the media got hold of Pyote allegations, followed by the Evins fiasco, the whole system became open for discussion and possible changes.
ReplyDeleteNow, we have advocates from various organizations who recognize that this fiasco has presented a tremendous opportunity for the Leg to replace the piecemeal Juvenile Justice system that has evolved over the years, with an interventionist philosophy that take a "cradle to grave" perspectiv. Why? Because now, there is a recognition that the Youths who enter the Juvenile Justice system had their behavioral, physical, educational, and mental health problems start long before they ever met a teacher, a social worker or a cop.
So now there is an attempt to encourage the Leg to replace this present disjointed system with one that realizes that money and targeted programs need to start flowing before youths are sent to TYC and TDCJ. (Mind, you, the new version of TYC under the new Juvenile Justice Department and TDCJ will still need large infusions of cash to find folks willing to work with the "worst of the worst" felons they will be charged with handling and build truly secure prisons capable of controlling the violence.)
Coming up with these solutions is a challenge logistically because we have a Legislature that only meets in off-years, and often has to deal with "crisis" issues reactively instead of planning "proactively".
In addittion, they have to deal with making changes to the Juvenile system in a difficult recession and now on the heals of the new scandal evolving out of the State's mental health institutions.
Of course the tight money situation makes the stakes higher for doing something that is not only cheaper in the short run but effective in the long run.
The models presented and the documentation, as BB points out, appear great, but there are few specifics on "how to".
Nor are there any specifics on how to train staff in the particular technologies required by these models.
Further I find nothing that shows the fiscal impact on the institutional side of the house with regard to how they can predict a budget or programs when the models proposed have the money following the kids.
Maybe they will create budgets based on the minimum number of predicted referals and have some kind of budgetary expansion provision?
For sure, if only the worst of the worst come to the institutions, the current costs of the institutional programs will increase because the 1:12 ratio will need to change to 1-6.
Also, none of the proposed models really addressed what you do actually do with these worst kids that must be referred to the institutions. They imply treatment, but if the majority of the dollars stay at the local level to treat the least difficult kids, than one does the institution with the hard core kids get for State funding, left-overs?
I have also noticed that the smaller counties from OHIO and ILLINOIS seemed to have a greater tendency to just send their kids to the institutions instead of buying into RECLAIM or REDEPLOY. It's not clear if this is due to a lack of their resources or not, but it will need to be addressed in Texas as well.
Perhaps Dallas, Travis and Harris counties can develop some large transitional facilities that would let some of the smaller counties send some of their youth for services, and pay the larger couties from their allocated dollars. This would be an alternative to institutionalizion if the programs in Dallas, Harris, and Travis counties offered effective programing that turned these kids around and allowed the sentencing courts to discharge them from their sentence. It would also help standardize the treatment concepts across County Probation departments in the state.
The currently proposed pilot programs in Dallas, and Travis counties should be run for at least 2 years and evaluated carefully before any final legislation to merge TYC with TJJP is made. If they do have the impact that is projected, for lowering referals to TYC, then begin to re-model TYC into a more hardened institution.
The Legislature is relying on information from its' "trusted sources" to help them get a map of where they want the new Juvenile Justice Department to go. The biggest voice they hear now is from TPPF and Marc Levin.
I think Marc Levin has correctly advocated that the problems that ultimately lead to large adult prison populations start before our youth even get to school. He also recognized that our Texas Schools have inadvertently become the great source of referals to the Juvenile Justice System.
If the Schools are not made a critical part of the Juvenile Justice restructuring, then there will continue to be problems.
The question is, how do you get "buy-in"? The pool of money is relatively shallow. Federal, State, and County tax revenues will all have to be tapped.
Obtaining efficiencies and coordination between school, probation departments and institutions will require a lot of oversight with muscle attached to it.
I think a key provision to the success of any new program model that is implemented will be to involve line staff from County Probation (officers), TYC (JCO's and Caseworkers), and education (classroom teachers), as well as former TYC and former Probation youths who have successfully made a place for themselves as productive citizens. These are the people who will make the real difference in making any model succeed or fail. They are often left out because bureaucrats are intimidated by real world experience which soils their prstine and untested models.
As far as money goes, it's not just throwing an ungodly amount of money at Juvenile Justice that will make it work, it's leadership that is critical, both in the dugout and on the playing field.
Let us Pray...........
TYC employees have received pay raises, some more than other agencies. This needs to be an area where employees can speak out. Just watch what is posted, be nice but truthful. It doesn't hurt to air the problem areas, otherwise they will be ignored; I think Grits agrees with this. Don't use names and trash folks, keep to the problem areas that need resplving.
ReplyDelete12:00 This is not an area to write a book. If you want to vent for ever, write a book; don't post your book here.
ReplyDeleteBB here again.
ReplyDeleteHere's the problem in a nutshell: They are letting the cost dictate the programs, rather than vice versa.
The pilot counties should be presenting itemized budgets that show what programs they plan to offer, to how many youth, and how much they will cost.
Instead, we are getting dollar amounts within which programs will have to fit.
IMO that is exactly backwards, and it is symptomatic of everything that has gone wrong in the past.
BB
12:00 posted "on topic." How refreshing.
ReplyDeleteBill -
ReplyDeleteYour exactly right. They need to identify the strategy and the costs associated with it.
Also, no one has answered this: If state funds are going to be given to these probation departments, will they be required to follow SB 103 as TYC is? I don't care if they're county or not, or whether they follow TJPC standards. Those are state funds and thus SB103 should apply to any programs receiving these funds. Otherwise, they may just recreate the problems we had prior to SB103. I wish someone would answer that question.
To 12:05 and 12:40,
ReplyDeleteMy hope is that the legislators are listening to what you are saying....my DREAM is that you ARE the legislators.
I meant 12:55, not 12:05.
ReplyDelete12:00 SAID,
ReplyDeleteHEY 12:05, I GUESS IF MY POST WAS TOO LONG OR INAPPROPRIATE, GRITS WILL ERASE IT.
IF YOU THINK I SHOULD WRITE A BOOK, I'M FLATTERED.....THANKS
IF YOU WANT TO BE THE BLOG COP, NO THANKS.
TO 12:47
I WAS VERY TEMPTED TO GET OFF TOPIC AND ENTER THE SALARY DISCUSSION AND THE CENTRAL OFFICE VS. THE FIELD DISCUSSION. BUT, AS SOMEONE ALREADY NOTED, THOSE DISCUSSIONS GO NOWHERE AND DETRACT FROM ANY DISCUSSION OF BUILDING A BETTER MOUSETRAP.
Bill: will you please advise us county hayseeds of programs that work in secure facilities for substantial numbers of kids that are committed to said programs?
ReplyDeleteJust point the way to the programs that evidence exists to show successful outcomes two and three years out?
We'll all appreciate it.u
Bill,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you, but this is Texas, and with the exception of the Texas Highway Department, I can't recall the Legislature ever writing a blank check for any program. In fact, I don't know of many other states that write blank checks either.
In Texas, the current method of budgeting for agencies deliberately forces them to make choices between operation and program costs with mandated 10% givebacks during almost every budget cycle. Agency leadership is not given the option or luxury of getting to keep money from cycle to cycle for being good stuarts of the tax dollar they receive. If they were, we would probably see some innovation. When you know you had better spend every penny you get or lose it, often the decisions made are not good in the long run.
I have yet to determine what the Legislatures true priorites are for Juvenile Justice -- aside from the two they alway espouse for Criminal Justice in general, Public Safety and cheap.
I'm really surprised that we have not heard anyone mention the "benefits" of privatizine Juvenile Justice programs yet. Although Marc Levin from TPPF does indicate there is a place for privitization in some of his writing.
I think that part of the answer lies in the fact that the Legislature has to come to a place where they trust and believe that the people who are Juvenile and Criminal Justice experts are capable of filling in the programaatic blanks expected of their agencies if the Legislature tells them the priorities, funds them fairly and let's them keep the change at the end of the budget year. Unfortunately that is a very unlikely change in direction.
Localized treatment appears to be nothing more than a return to how it was in my day. There was the Dallas County Boys Home that kept most kids from going to gatesville, the old pea farm in Hutchins. Its now a prison same as gatesville. Everything was centralized in gatesville, purchasing, warehouse, hr, everything. Agribusiness offset the cost of running the institution. There were an assortment of trades a kid could learn. I did upholstery shop at Live Oak school in the old colored dorm as it was called then. Dr Bush has a picture of it in his first paper when it really was the colored dorm, dusky hall. I still have the footstool I made my first trip to gatesville in my office. If that footstool could talk, LOL.
ReplyDeleteThe gatesville of the pre MvT was a brutal place thanks to the ignorance and cruellaty of the hillbilly red necks of Coryell county. Although the facility was cost effective. The solution that I think would produce the best ROI, that's return on investment for you tyc people, centralized corrections, a program to civilize the kid and temper the justice with mercy, their children for Gds sakes. It was a different time back then and if we as a society have learned anything I think the real professionals in the juvenile justice field could make it work today and be effective. Does good ROI violate state policy?
I've been saying tyc is about corrections and that you tyc people are trying to be something you cant be, a youth rehab. Look at what you people accept for pay, again, the state sponsored child abuse agency is also the state employment agency for unemployable people. For all the good you tyc people are doing educating and rehabbing these kids its nothing more than a pissin contest between unqualified emps where the real losers are the tax payers and the kids in your custody. But for what we pay you tyc people its amazing you people accept the job at all. I can only imagine the since of entitlement you must have, some of you people would do better to continue the generational welfare than work for tyc. You tyc co people sound like the biggest losers of all, you bust your buts in college and cant get beyond 6 figures, you people are more pathetic than the cover ups you say you hide for the facilities rats. I spent 6 years in college and make more than the top 1% according to the dataset returned at the above url. The tyc education prepared me for prison not college that's why it took me 6 years to get that BSEE. Perhaps if your were going to college and busting your buts, as my engineering professors would tell us, get a useful degree. Medical Law Engineering.
12:05 must be a tyc teacher, burn the books and break out the crossword puzzles. What the heck the kids next ConNection is prison anyway. JTP makes good since, but you need to dumb it down and shorten it for the tyc people to comprehend.
Its sad to see the old kid committed suicide trick still in play. That was always a good way for staff to get their jolly's push a kid to death. That breaks my heart you people still do that. BTW, why do you people think the old facility's were turned over to tdc, untouchable, no trespassing, no digging, no finding lost children.
And the brookin and hernandez punks, they will never be prosecuted, for what being a tyc emp.
I'm almost 50 years old and still to this day I cant comprehend what it is about you people, your retarded little agency that I was supposed to respect. I just don't get it, what is it about tyc I should have any respect for? This was supposed to be fixed in the 80's.
your favorite tyc alumni
Sheldon tyc #47333 II c/s
Hey Sheldon, honestly, have you ever been charged and convicted of a felony after you were released from TYC?
ReplyDeleteYou know he's a felon, but most of what he says is true, like it or not. TYC has changed little and the underworld of TYC culture only gets worse. The sad truth of Sheldon's comments should haunt all of us TYC employees, present and past. We have been and still are part of the dirt that TYC is and will remain, until it is abolished and started completely over with all new people. Sad, but true.
ReplyDeleteMY BET WAS SHELDON NEVER GOT CHARGED W/A FELONY AFTER TYC. LIKE IT OR NOT, MANY DON'T.
ReplyDeleteSO SHELDON?
I think Sheldon is probably ate-up with the dumb-a..! If he makes as much as he says, he would not take the time to post constantly on this blog. He has some complaints, but he has misused his past w/TYC and probably is a present day failure. He can make all sorts of claims of success, but he wouldn't be sharing here if that was true. He always needed and still needs attention, from anyone, even TYC posters, which he is really in envy of..
ReplyDeleteA flunkee... how many felonies post TYC? What school for the double E? Do share felon-sheldon.
ReplyDeleteI do like stirring things up and I like being the center of attention in most social situations. Who wouldn't if they have the social skills to do that. This is a great forum because I can give back to tyc in a small way what they gave me. LOL I went to college to put up a front to my po to keep from going to prison. So yes further judication, but that was a long time ago. I made a conscious decision to join society and stop the childish outlaw crap. Its a shame some never do but its not like you tyc people give them the tools. I ended up with a BSEE from UT. I have to consult and I average right at the top 1% of what that data set returned for tyc salary's, but that's just because I'm lazy or do a ton of volunteer work. So to some I could be a failure. The salary pretty much stayed the same for the last 10 years. My chosen profession lets me walk on water sort of speak with my clients. And I did attend the finest high school in the world to learn the art of manipulation.
ReplyDeleteI was supposed to go to the coed Gainesville school at the time for three months of riding mini bikes and state girls but I failed to have sex with the goat raper case worker who decided where a kid would go from Brownwood reception center. I had escapes on my record so I was referred to Mountain View. Once in gatesville I was reclassified to Terrace, because they needed more white kids. In May of 1975 gatesville was closing and the only kids that were getting sent to gatesville from Brownwood reception center at the time were the black ones, so they needed some whitys. Mountain View was being moved to Hackberry in June of that year and downsizing its population. That same summer more kids came in and they reopened Valley school and talked about reopening Riverside. My gosh what would you poor jco do with a 40 to 1 ratio, wet your pants.
As a tyc alumni I like bragging about my accomplishment to today's tyc staff and talking about how it was back in the day, as well as offering critiques and input about today's kinder gentler tyc. Its like some of the guys on the board at my kids private school who went to the school when they were kids. Its to bad you tyc clowns don't appreciate that. We have a site on the classmates dot com and I am piddling around with a gatesville state school for boys blog. I just wrote about a float trip on the Leon river that some of us state boys took in the summer of 1975.
your favorite alumni
Sheldon tys 47333 II C\S
This blog post is not about Sheldon. Stay on topic or I shut the string down.
ReplyDeleteI can't say enough times that it doesn't matter what the program is, or where it came from. Unless you have the staff on board that can/will make it happen, it won't happen. TYC will first have to cure it's internal employment problems. As it is, there are a handful of people at each unit that get the job done while many are just along for the ride.
ReplyDeleteThe more things change, the more they stay the same. They have no real plan and much of what they do mention is nothing new, just maybe packaged a little differently.
ReplyDeleteUsing the term "evidence based" is the new pc catch phrase to use when you want to repackage and sell an old idea or ideas. The lege is jumping on that band wagon without having any real idea what they are talking about. They can talk about this model and that model, and a million other ideas but no model is effective if it cannot be properly implemented. They've not done their homework, they are just looking at theories and models implemented elsewhere. That means nothing. They only thing the lege did was thoughtlessly attempt to destroy the entire agency and management at TYC allowed it to happen. Their reaction was cowardly. Instead of supporting their people, they used them as scapegoats. In doing so they assisted in their own destruction. The majority of the employees were innocent.
TYC has an auto-immune disease, it attacks itself as you all can see. No organization can function like that. It is obvious how detached management is from the field, and how they despise their employees. It is interesting that they continue to send employees in the field, namely PA's, to week long workshops that advocate a supportive, open management style. Meanwhile, more and more employees are losing their jobs. It's a real tragedy. Who really cares about those kids? Stop and let people who actually know what they are doing do what they do best. The only proven disasters are consistently hiring poor managers and appointing people that are not experts in the field of juvenile justice as experts in the field of juvenile justice.
The more I hear about TYC, the more sick I become. It is obvious that the situation in the agency is beyond repair....much like GM; the entire commission needs overhauling. Most of the employees need to look for new jobs, along with management; then replace all those with new people. Even if they are not juvenie justice people, they can't do any worse than those that have controlled the agency for the past ten years. We have seen what so called experts can do to an agency...rip it to pieces; the heart and morale of youth and employees. Start fresh and regain the public confidence.
ReplyDeleteI'm not talking about those experts. There are many people out in the trenches that really are good and once upon a time, there were some people in management that weren't so bad. I was fortunate enough to work under Jack Patton when he was an assistant superintendent. He was a mentor. From him I learned about juvenile corrections, how to manage people and how to relax at the end of the day. He was forced out by Alan Steen and others which was a shame. I think Alan was Jealous of Jack in every way. Alan was a snake eyed devil and for some reason that is the type of management those good ole boys always prefer. I have to say though, that as bad as he was, I'd take him and Steve Robinson back any day over the current situation. I never thought I would make such a statement.
ReplyDeleteThe biggest problem w/Steve, he allowed Dwight to get in the mix, and ruin the agency, for his power trips.
ReplyDeleteRelating to HB.3689 a.k.a the Merger Bill.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I like about the idea of merging TYC with TJPC is the possibility of utilizing facilities in the state and the counties to meet particular needs for every juvenile. I think it'll expand our overall resources to meet specialized needs.
I see three tiers of supervision. First, there would be county probation, the lowest tier. Continue to screw up, fail to redirect, and you're placed a level up to a second tier.
Second Tier is a medium restriction program such as the counties have now that would allow for more supervision in an out-of- home setting, but still allows for community access, weekend home visits and so forth; all earned. Successful completion of this program takes you back to home supervision, or the first tier.
Third tier is placement in a high restriction TYC facility. You should be placed here if you failed the second tier, even if you are a multiple misdemeanor commitment because we all know how difficult that group is.
The thing about it is no one has to do ALL their time in a high restriction TYC program if initially placed there unless you carry a determinant sentence. Too many TYC kids come in, quickly earn a high phase or stage by the middle of their mlos, only to sit there and earn privileges that aren't all that rewarding as compared to getting closer to home. Many times they deteriorate given the negative peer culture that surrounds them. Also, stabilized kids would probably do much better in specialized treatment that's more close to home. Stabilize in TYC, transition back to medium tier, start your specialized treatment, and finish it in the first tier - at home. Stepping up and down based on supervision and treatment needs seems logical. So?
OK let the attack begin.
If familar with TYC, the "fake it to make it" kid would be bouncing back and forth into the system.
ReplyDeleteBut I like your plan.
I'm waiting on "Chuey's" response but he's lost again I see. lol. Come on Chuey, lets banter!
ReplyDeleteWhitsfoe, that's how it was in the 70's, but once in tyc you were there. Fake it to make it would get you sent you home, that's how you got sent home, but you would come back to tyc not the local county home or private facility like a boys ranch. During my time a kid could come to tyc the first time and be out in 3 to 4 months. Second return 4 to 6 months. A three timer would have to stay at least 6 months. And believe it or not there were four timers, that's right 4 tear drops. I knew a guy from The Valley who was at Valley school for 6 months, Hackberry 9 months and Terrace twice for about 9 months each when I was there.
ReplyDeleteI guess in the 80's when the state restricted the hiring of red nicks and started bringing in the sexual deviant team playa culture they liked to keep the boys a little longer. We all know what that's about. According to some state girls the molestation of the females was business as usual that started in Gainesville and just spread to Brownwood. I hear they still play those games with the boys in Gainesville. Must be a Cook county thing being so close to Oklahoma and all.
I think tyc should learn their own history and perhaps they would quit making the same mistakes over and over and over and over ....
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
I'll be glad to meet you Sheldon.
ReplyDeleteI'll be there. Tell me where. I actually have family that live in the D/FW area. I can meet you. I'd love to hear this first hand, and I promise, I'll be cool. I have no problem w/you.
We'll hit it off Sheldon. But bring your Harley knowledge because I'm about to buy one!
I'd be be glad to meet you Sheldon.
Well I suppose that this may or may not be on the news but... That boy that killed himself at the Crockett Facility. He did not commit suicide. He died accidentally of auto erotic-asphyxiation. That would be classified as an accidental death. That is the truth behind budget cuts and what TYC is facing.
ReplyDeleteGrits or anyone else that doesn't believe, check into it and find out for yourself.
That sounds great Whitsfoe, I'm not really the ass I try to be, like I said I like stirring up stuff, because its been my experience that's how really hard issues people don't want to deal with get resolved. Shoot me an email at oldschool@ironguardiansnt.org with your contact info. I will make my self available.
ReplyDeletePerhaps if more "alumni" would take an interest and management were open who knows what kind of synergy the old juvenile prison prep school could generate to the good. I will defiantly address this issue when the gatesville state school for boys former student reunion takes place. Did you people know there is an exhibit in the town of Gatesville at their museum dedicated to the old reform school. How about that, I wonder if there is any pictures of children hand cuffed to the wall being beaten by several security red necks.
Not sure how I can help with the Harley stuff, I'm some what old school on that.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Hope you both have a great time at your revendous; try to not spread too many std's. The Crockett death is another example of how TYC continues to hide and cover what really happens. You never really know the truth when TYC is involved.
ReplyDeleteHey Sheldon, my understanding was that youth back then were committed to TYC officially for a minimum of one year, but that they often got out much sooner (as you note, sometimes as brief as 3 months) due to overcrowding.
ReplyDeleteIn the 60s, even TYC officials admitted that they were releasing inmates based on the number of new admits per day - literally a "revolving door" - as a form of population control - does that sound accurate to you? Just curious.
BB
Yes, true, basically what has happened the past seven years, also.
ReplyDelete7:40 - Many people within TYC have been advocating for a tiered system for years. It has always fallen on deaf ears. Maybe a merger, or at least mandated closer cooperation between the counties and TYC may be a way to make that happen. Unfortunately, under the present system, once a kid is committed to TYC, the county probation depts have nothing more to do with them (except in those counties where the probation dept. has a parole contract with TYC). Kids should be able to earn their way into higher restriction through bad behavior, and, conversely earn their way to lower restriction, back towards community-based programs by their good behavior and accomplishment of treatment objectives. "One size fits all" has never worked anywhere. Old Salty
ReplyDeleteYes, Salty - you've been around a long time to see what I'm seeing. We need step down facilities. I think it'd help transition kids home faster. I do recognize though that some will "fake it to make it" but then again, some won't and that'd be my target. Their are many who don't get revoked. I'm guessing about half (or better) that have been released from high restriction don't come back now on revocation, but I'm not sure. It's the ones who don't get revoked and sent back to TYC high restriction programs that need this tier system, and hey, if I'm close to right, that's half? Why bring down the good half because of the bad half?
ReplyDeleteDid I ever tell you about when my brother broke wind in church, and lied about who done it when my dad asked? Since he lied, we both got it. Now was that fair? Wasn't then, isn't now.
Man, that analogy really stinks to high heaven!! I forgot your whole point.......
ReplyDeleteThey're both half baked; don't try to understand. A fresh start, replace all the management and present employees and get a new program, tough, but non-abusive and effective.
ReplyDeleteI'm just curious. Has there ever been a residential facility (juvenile or adult) which has not had some kind of abuse?
ReplyDeleteDr Bush, during my time the commitments were until we turned 18. We were stuck with them and they were stuck with us. I think when I came back for round 2 the staff were wishing I could have gone somewhere else. I was going to go to Sycamore but they wouldn’t take me and at Terrace none of the dorm staff wanted me back on their dorm. I ran the first night back and spent the next 2 months in lock up while the case workers drew straws. LOL
ReplyDeleteSharing STDs that’s funny anon 3/30/2009 11:09:00 PM
In gatesville there did not appear to be as much of the staff on student sex going on the way you people enjoy it now like an employee benefit. You have to remember in that red nick culture of that gatesville staff, homosexuality was frowned upon, BIG TIME. The homosexuals were separated into what was called punk dorms. We did have a white protestant preacher in 1975 when I got there who was molesting boys with consent, paid them a few cigarettes under the guise of cleaning the chapel, but he was replaced that summer with a black protestant preacher who only molested the black boys and predominantly the ones at Sycamore school. Not being protestant or black I really had nothing to worry about. The catholic priest, Father Atwood may he rest in peace, was a mench. He would come daily to visit boys in lock up but you never saw that other guy.
Actually from info I have gathered from speaking with post gatesville period tyc boys the male staff on male student molestation didn’t really seem to become prevalent until the 90’s and in almost all cases that guys told me about it was non white staff. One could deduce that the sexual deviant culture of staff on students were predominated by the similar cultures of brookins and hernandaze. I would think that you tyc people would know better how accurate that is especially with facility’s closer to larger cities where emp pools are closer to white homosexual communities. Now with the gainesville girls, staff on student molestation was business as usual, apparently from its inception. I can’t wait to blog on what went on at Crockett before it was desegregated and coed, but that is very x rated. My childhood maid could tell some stories about that place, may she rest in peace.
Therefore I don’t think Whitofoe has anything to worry about with a face to face from me because I’m a hard core lesbian and very experienced at defending myself if he isn’t a lesbian. You on the other hand anon 3/30/2009 11:09:00 PM , are creepy with that remark . And before ignorance takes over and someone cries my commits are racial I just want to say I’m only being descriptive and telling about how it was, is, by whom. During my 2 and a half years at the Gatesville State School for Boys the creepy sexual deviants who wanted to molest other students were almost always black. The old-timers would say they used to keep that homo crap on the other side of the hi way before the feds stuck their noses into their business.
Sheldon 47333 II C/s thats me above its early
ReplyDeleteWhen you start itching and scratching, you'll know if they were spread...enjoy.
ReplyDeleteWhat can we realistically expect from any program? How do we define what 'works'? What is a 'good fix'? What programs should be kept and what should be abolished and why?
ReplyDeleteThere are no guarantees in life. The majority of us go about each day trying to do the best that we can. We accept that life is not always fair and that sometimes we will fail. We try to raise our children right but sometimes things still go wrong. Does that mean that as parents we are terrible failures? Should the government take our children away when they get in trouble? Of course not. Not unless we have caused them great harm by abusing and neglecting them. Most us would be outraged if such a thing happened. We would defend ourselves and point out what good parents we had been. We would point out how we had loved them, taught them right from wrong, and done everything within our power to ensure their success. Our outrage would be justified, at some point individual accountability comes into play. Sometimes people just screw up.
Knowing how hard it is to be parents and raise children, why on earth do any of us believe that the government, the schools, teachers, counselors etc.. can do what we as parents couldn't. That doesn't make any sense. We know of course, that many incarcerated juveniles did not have it so good but it is still unreasonable to believe that a government program can work miracles. All they can do is help. It is still up to the individual as to what he or she will become in life.
Certainly no program can be successful that is not allowed to create and maintain an orderly environment. No therapy or learning can take place in chaotic environments. Right now, teachers cannot maintain order in their classrooms without explaining and answering to an inquisition. TYC employees are scared to death to anything that might place them under investigation. So who is in power, the kids. This over kill is causing damage to children. Yes there are bad teachers, caseworkers, staff etc. but that doesn't mean that we need to punish all of those out their trying their best to help our children.
We are all such hypocrits. No wonder things are so screwed up. No, there is not a facility that has not had some kind of abuse. I can guarantee it. It is unfortunate, but that doesn't mean that every one of them needs to be closed or destroyed. Look, sometimes children end up getting in trouble for breaking the law to the point that they cannot be in the community anyomore. The best we can do offer them a chance to start over and give them as many tools as possible to help them start back on the right path. Sometimes they just don't. They choose. Everyone must learn to assume responsibility for their behavior. That is life. We can choose to blame everyone and everything and wallow in bitterness and self pity or we can choose to accept responsibility, take advantage of opportunites and move on.
ReplyDeleteJust look at the trash on this post from TYC/ Exes, live, etc...how can anyone have any confidence and look forward; queers on the posting from way back and the current queers want to meet them! And you wonder why TYC has problems? You cant't get rid of the trash, wanna-bees, druggies-employees; who feel for the youth; and slush that TYC has become in the past ten years. Gee, someone provide some sensib;e guidance for us all!!!!!
ReplyDeleteWhat about the new scandall.TYC TRAINING DEPARTMENT FIRES 35 YEAR TYC LEEGEND FOR SUPPOSEIVELY FAILING A 15 MINUTE FIRST AID & CPR PRESENTATION DURING AN INSTRUCTOR CERTIFICATION CLASS.WHAT GRATITUDE!SOME EMPLYOYEES GET RIFFED SOME ARE GOTTEN RID OF.HIP HIP HURRAY FOR MARTY MARTIN AND HIS FIREING SQUAD.
ReplyDeleteThe empyoyee was David Davis.
ReplyDeleteComments on this post have gone throught the drain and are now floating in the sewer. Everyone has a right to express their opinions. Why is it so hard for people to exchange thoughts and ideas without resorting to name calling?
ReplyDeleteIs there a senate hearing today?
ReplyDeleteAnon 4/01/2009 05:46:00 PM imo you make good since.
ReplyDeleteAnon 4/01/2009 08:56:00 PM imo that’s the altitude that got and will keep tyc where it is, useless, dysfunctional, and a great place for people to work who can’t work somewhere else who especially enjoy the emp benefit of abusing and molesting children. By queer do you mean people who might could help the agency? No probably not.
IMO you the agency tyc should bring in professionals as consultants to help you people get your stuff together and salvage what’s left of that garbage you call an agency? It may possibly do some good for the children whom the pubic schools have thrown away. As a consultant it’s been my experience that organizations who TRUELY want to succeed, bring in professionals, industry experts to help them. Not necessarily, because you tyc managerial people don’t have the in house expertise, but to augment the in house expertise for the overall good of the organization. The overall good of the agency. Unfortunately, it has also been my experience that the major, possibly the only obstacle to this being successful is when you have people in the organization, stumbling blocks to success, who will use arrogance to hide their ignorance. If an organization is deeply rooted with individuals who use this technique, arrogance to hid ignorance, and the plague has gone unchecked for a long period of time then there really is nothing left to do but flush the management team, bring in a new team with the one goal of restoring the trust between staff emps and managerial emps. Your tyc management team may very well be so far gone that something like this would never work or has been tired with the stumbling blocks I speak of. If so, you tyc managerial people could very well be responsible for the biggest failure in the history of Juvenile justice. To that I say at least you first in something.
Hell, if you tyc managerial people could drop the attitude perhaps you could tap into some of the alumni, those of us who “broke tyc norms” who are captains of industry and the what not. Perhaps we would be willing to help but you would have to drop the attitude because most of us do not think very highly of your so called agency. And, sorry to disappoint some of you like anon 4/01/2009 08:56:00 PM but not all of us follow the tyc program and graduate on to tdc. I suppose I can thank tyc for the nurturing environment that provided me my cynical attitude towards dumb ass authority figures, with their triple talk and make work, but it was ultimately MY Choice to break tyc norms. Thank Gd I did.
I think it’s a shame to the people of Texas it appears some of you tyc people have a type of attitude towards tyc alumni who happen to be somewhat successful similar to the type of attitude a clansman would have towards a black man who would be successful.
More trash flowing into the sewer from your favorite state boy, or maybe not.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Sheldon, we have former TYC youth on campus regularly. Could it be something about you that is interfering?
ReplyDeleteClearly, based on your posts here on TYC, you are not as adept at navigating the system as you think you are.
Actually, replacing the top management with so-called "experts" is exactly what happened. I can tell how much better off TYC kids are as a result!
ReplyDeleteIf you didn't think that the old-TYC management needed to be replaced, you must have been part of them, or were simply blind to what was happening in TYC on a daily basis. It was great that most of the top levels were dismissed. Something had to happen, it was far beyong time or repair of the terrible conditions. The kid issue is only part of the 'big picture'.
ReplyDeleteYep, it is obvious how much better run TYC is now!
ReplyDelete