tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post3458242534874860346..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Against Despair: Is it time for a 21st-century reinvention of the WPA?Gritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87001825475157561342008-03-03T17:46:00.000-06:002008-03-03T17:46:00.000-06:00WPA was not a solution to the Depression. Public w...WPA was not a solution to the Depression. Public works (menial jobs) is not the answer to economic woes or solving criminal behavior. It is a waste of money better spent on treatment. Any criminal can get a menial job. They can go out to the fields or dig ditches and compete with those illegal aliens that are so indespensible that they can't be deported. The point is public works are not needed for economic or for hiring criminals. There are jobs out there; they just are currently being filled with illegal aliens.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-6152493856859967652008-03-03T10:35:00.000-06:002008-03-03T10:35:00.000-06:00Milton was a friend of mine and that is what he sa...<I>Milton was a friend of mine and that is what he said. You need to re-read his books.</I><BR/><BR/>The poster to whom you were responding did not say it, however. That was my point. You're rebutting an argument made by a poster here, with a counter-point to an argument that the poster here didn't make.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-91240008787464895012008-03-03T06:16:00.000-06:002008-03-03T06:16:00.000-06:00Work programs are never a bad idea. Unfortunately...Work programs are never a bad idea. Unfortunately Texas is the only state in the union that has legalized institutional slavery. I have touted the idea that giving offenders jobs, on the job training etc would be a partial answer to recidivism. However the sad truth is that although inmates are coerced into working in prison "industries", on the hope it will look good for parole(we know how bad the BPP is, there is no monetary or "good time" recompense for 10-12 hour day labor in unskilled jobs. Granted most inmates leap at the opportunity to work to escape the crushing boredom of life in a cell, this system does not provide any real life skills for reintegration into society. Add to that the fact that in <BR/>Tx it is legal to dicriminate against a felon and you are branded with that label for the rest of your life,finding work and staying out of jail is difficult for the disinfranchised. Work programs are grat, but this system needs an overhaul before they can be implemented.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-83609075942642172172008-03-02T22:13:00.000-06:002008-03-02T22:13:00.000-06:00What we really need to do is get the "illegals" on...What we really need to do is get the "illegals" on the tax rolls so we can fund Grits program.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-48681625195748518892008-03-02T21:24:00.000-06:002008-03-02T21:24:00.000-06:00wolf said..."the paltry money inmates earn is a di...wolf said...<BR/><BR/>"the paltry money inmates earn is a disgrace".<BR/><BR/>I can tell he ain't from texas. They don't pay inmates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-61565622612718227322008-03-02T18:50:00.000-06:002008-03-02T18:50:00.000-06:00Thanks everybody for the good discussion. I'd add ...Thanks everybody for the good discussion. <BR/><BR/>I'd add that whether Friedman thought the WPA ended the Depression is irrelevant - my point is that this should be done for the public safety benefit, starting in the criminal justice context.<BR/><BR/>Wolf - your idea is a good one, especially if it's possible to get jobs in the prisons that have transferrable skills.<BR/><BR/>Bill's thought that this could devolve into a "chain gang" phenomenon is an important caution to ONLY doing it through the justice system, though - good point.<BR/><BR/>Proximo, Judge Kent's day reporting center results (and other data) makes me think some of the cultural barriers you describe are overblown. With training and oppportunity, I think it's not an insurmountable barrier.<BR/><BR/>Finally to those who say "just expel the illegals," even if it were practically possible (it's not), it won't solve problems with barriers to employment for felons - both legal barriers and lack of skills, training, transportation, etc. Just because that's your personal bailiwick doesn't mean it's an universal answer to every economic problem.<BR/><BR/>Best to all,Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-35484094959403800312008-03-02T17:52:00.000-06:002008-03-02T17:52:00.000-06:00Rage,Milton was a friend of mine and that is what ...Rage,<BR/><BR/>Milton was a friend of mine and that is what he said. You need to re-read his books.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-64945959251599034392008-03-02T14:45:00.000-06:002008-03-02T14:45:00.000-06:00if you go back and read Friedman you would know th...<I>if you go back and read Friedman you would know that he said the WPA did not do anything to end the depression,</I><BR/><BR/>That's not what he said. But whereas we gave people picks and shovels during the depression and fed them in exchange for work, other countries gave them rifles and sponsored shifts toward socialism and communism when their countries were hit by similar hard times. Sometimes just helping a little is enough to get things on the right track.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11875912366615803412008-03-02T14:39:00.000-06:002008-03-02T14:39:00.000-06:00We have come a long way from our shared valuesThis...<I>We have come a long way from our shared values</I><BR/><BR/>This is a red herring, and a fallacy at that. You think immorality didn't exist 100 years ago? Laziness?<BR/><BR/>I've been saying for years (to anyone who will listen) that a modern WPA would be a great idea. And I imagine that it would fill to capacity immediately despite what people view as "different values." <BR/><BR/>The WPA made sure that America didn't go completely socialist like other countries during the depression and earlier. Another thing during that era that made America what it is today was the GI Bill, which educated Americans to an extent that would never have been possible without government support.<BR/><BR/>Of course, both of those ideas share a common, and fundamental principle that would make it unworkable today because of modern Republicans--the notion that helping people is a good thing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-32911952780624843702008-03-02T13:16:00.000-06:002008-03-02T13:16:00.000-06:00Given this state's attitude towards rehabilitation...Given this state's attitude towards rehabilitation, I foresee your well-intentioned suggestion morphing into a post-sentence chain gang.<BR/><BR/>BillAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70509931023426901662008-03-02T13:01:00.000-06:002008-03-02T13:01:00.000-06:00"expelling the illegals"Yeah, that's never been tr..."expelling the illegals"<BR/><BR/>Yeah, that's never been tried before. Good luck with that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-90269850063160035262008-03-02T12:48:00.000-06:002008-03-02T12:48:00.000-06:0010:22, if you go back and read Friedman you would ...10:22, if you go back and read Friedman you would know that he said the WPA did not do anything to end the depression, only World War II did that. You would also know that unlike the deflationary Depression of the 30's, we are facing an inflationary depression. More feficit spending doesn't solve an inflationary depression, it only makes it worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-4888070683803082722008-03-02T12:43:00.000-06:002008-03-02T12:43:00.000-06:00The WPA produced a bunch of minimum wage jobs. We ...The WPA produced a bunch of minimum wage jobs. We can do that without the WPA by expelling the illegals just as 10:05 stated. Most WPA jobs were those "Americans won't do" - digging ditches, chopping weeds, building roads by hand, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-42121730825974275172008-03-02T10:22:00.000-06:002008-03-02T10:22:00.000-06:00It happpens that yesterday I walking into an NAACP...It happpens that yesterday I walking into an NAACP sponsored forum for the candidates for our elected Police Chief (a perversion I could fill several columns with) and I noticed on the corner curbing a brand on the cement declaring it to be a WPA product.<BR/><BR/>I am old enough to have been told by Depression-era relatives their personal experiences with WPA/CCC. With that background, I pay attention when it shows up. You are spot on, 60, 70 years later there are still working benefits of these projects. Park trails, sidewalks, libraries, they sponsored authors to write on books, usually of local interest, works of art that still hang in museums.<BR/><BR/>proximo, one can quibble over administrative details, but from this disciple of Freidman, if this be socialism, we could use a bit of it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-40987222809640982042008-03-02T10:12:00.000-06:002008-03-02T10:12:00.000-06:00Your idea definitely has possibilities, and someth...Your idea definitely has possibilities, and something has to be done about people released from prison with so many strikes against them. My take on this is that prisons need to reconfigured so that those "serving time" are actually doing something with their time. Texas law requires that all inmates , if able, have work to do. Actually about 50% have employment of some kind while doing time. Too many prison jobs do not prepare inmates for work in the "world". In addition, the paltry money inmates earn is a disgrace. <BR/>I suggest it is time to follow Texas law and create real life jobs for those in prison. Not only would they practice the habit of working like the rest of us, they should also earn at least minimum wage ( tax breaks for companies that participate in developing prison industries), with opportunity for advancement. Under such a system prison life would more closely reflect life on the outside. Ideally there could be a public-private partnership to create real jobs in prison and theoretically prisons could be financially self supporting with inmates paying for their own room and board, just like they'll have to do once paroled. The money saved by such an arrangement could be put into the front end of crime prevention and thereby impact the entire system. This way, parolees, upon release will be accustomed to the demands of real life and will be much better prepared to meet the challenges we all face.wolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04404872282466049296noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-12348750108033430482008-03-02T10:05:00.000-06:002008-03-02T10:05:00.000-06:00Actually if job creation is what you are after, th...Actually if job creation is what you are after, then the answer is sending the illegals aliens back where they belong. This will open up those jobs they took at cheap wages, provide addition jobs for the border fence and deportation, and make the country more secure against terrorists and drug dealers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87439569677794043752008-03-02T09:33:00.000-06:002008-03-02T09:33:00.000-06:00Yet another million dollar idea you are giving awa...Yet another million dollar idea you are giving away for free. Just happens this idea is a good 'un.<BR/><BR/>PlatoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-27142021050552680722008-03-02T09:29:00.000-06:002008-03-02T09:29:00.000-06:00Scott,You and I probably grew up in an era when yo...Scott,<BR/><BR/>You and I probably grew up in an era when you couldn't go to a park or take a bike ride through town without coming in contact with a WPA and CCC project. I do think there is some merit to your proposal but I'd rather see it administered locally in a public-private partnership. <BR/><BR/>It's hard to predict how a WPA-like program would work today. The WPA labor pool in the 30's did not consist primarily of a criminal element; it actually included out-of-work white collar types (I don't have any stats on this but maybe another reader knows more about it). Pulling property offenders out of the crowded jailhouse and putting them to work is an idea I'd hope most folks would embrace. <BR/><BR/>We have come a long way from our shared values of the early 20th century and we now contend with a fractured tribal culture with far too many who don't value family, education and honest work. These are moral failings that will require a robust response from the local community-NGO's and faith based groups are best equipped to tackle these challenges. I just don't see them as involved with inmate populations as they should be.<BR/><BR/>Well, keep thinking outside the box. That's why I like dropping by :-)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com