tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post4859157172188742872..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Abrogating Mexican murderer's rights puts Americans at risk abroadGritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44182615473953593872008-08-01T20:07:00.000-05:002008-08-01T20:07:00.000-05:00I think you mean Jacobite, TxBluesman:http://en.wi...I think you mean <B>Jacobite</B>, TxBluesman:<BR/><BR/>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobitism<BR/><BR/>The moniker <B>Jacobin</B> attaches to the radical republicans in the French Revolution of 1789, so called because they met at the Priory of St Jacques:<BR/><BR/>http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/jacobinT Kinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04007236905500441788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70222953812667706112008-08-01T17:40:00.000-05:002008-08-01T17:40:00.000-05:00Since you don't like facts, how about common sense...Since you don't like facts, how about common sense?<BR/><BR/>"First, let us be clear about applicant's claim. Born in Mexico, applicant was brought to the United States when he was three years old and, at the time he was arrested, had lived in this country for fifteen of his eighteen years. He spoke fluent English, but he never obtained, nor apparently ever sought, U.S. citizenship. So, at the time of his arrest and trial, he was legally a Mexican citizen. His claim is that no one informed him of his right to contact the Mexican consulate. This is true. It is also true that he was never denied access to the Mexican consulate. The problem is that he apparently never told any law enforcement or judicial official that he was a Mexican citizen until some four years after his conviction. Applicant never informed the arresting officers that he was a Mexican citizen. (1) He makes no claim that he informed any magistrate that he was a Mexican citizen. He points to no evidence that he informed the trial judge before or during his trial that he was a Mexican citizen. (2) We do not know what the arresting officers, the magistrate, or the trial judge would have done had any of them been informed that applicant was a citizen of Mexico. Perhaps they would have informed him of his right to contact his consulate for assistance. While Texas authorities clearly failed in their duty to inform this foreign national of his rights under the Vienna Convention, this foreign national equally failed in his duty to inform those authorities that he was a Mexican citizen. Although one would like to think that all Texas public officials are clairvoyant about the nationality of all who appear before them, they are not required to be, nor, when there is no reason to believe that a defendant is anything but a U.S. citizen, should they be."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-30244567373084703792008-08-01T09:31:00.000-05:002008-08-01T09:31:00.000-05:00Grits,Jacobian's weren't ever part of a mob, they ...Grits,<BR/><BR/>Jacobian's weren't ever part of a mob, they were patriots attempting to restore the throne to the rightful King of the Scots...<BR/><BR/>;)<BR/><BR/>A part of me that's not Native American is Scot, on my mom's side...<BR/><BR/>Fuimus!<BR/>Nemo me impune lacessit!TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-8094888407634309912008-07-31T19:12:00.000-05:002008-07-31T19:12:00.000-05:00My point is those so focused on bloodthirsty reven...My point is those so focused on bloodthirsty revenge ignore other important aspects of the debate that provide a counterweight. Again - this issue isn't about Medellin's crime, it's about the safety of US travelers. You can cite the heinousness of Medellin's crime all day long and it's irrelevant to the point at hand. It still doesn't outweigh putting Americans abroad at risk.<BR/><BR/>Re: jacobin, I'm referring to the comments on this string - "P.O.S.," "human garbage," "trash" - all the dehumanizaing language that allows people to justify killing in their small little minds. These aren't comments that respect or value "super due-process" - they're just anonymous bloodthirsty cowards willing to make outlandish statements when their name isn't attached to them. That analogy stands up just fine.<BR/><BR/>There are more thoughtful death penalty supporters in the world, and that characterization doesn't apply to all of them. But it certainly fits several commenters on this string.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-65472879448922977522008-07-31T17:24:00.000-05:002008-07-31T17:24:00.000-05:00A Jacobin mob? So you are comparing the pending e...A Jacobin mob? So you are comparing the pending execution of a convicted defendant who has been given super due-process in the courts of this state and country and who committed the following acts: "repeatedly and viciously raped two girls: the testimony at trial established that Medellin participated in the rape of both victims. Trial testimony established that Medellin helped strangle Elizabeth Pena with one of his shoestrings. In describing the attacks later, Medellin appeared "hyper, giggling and laughing" as he recounted his role. Medellin also bragged about deflowering one of the young girls. The only remorse Medellin showed was that he did not have a gun so that the killing would have been quicker."----with the victims of a revolutionary mob who were summarily executed without trial???<BR/><BR/>You need to rethink your analogy. It doesn't hold water. A blind man could see that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-5444924276616565712008-07-31T13:30:00.000-05:002008-07-31T13:30:00.000-05:00"How about Texas and the World Court have an agree..."How about Texas and the World Court have an agreement"?<BR/><BR/>If that agreement means Texans are less safe when traveling beyond US borders, it's a bad deal.<BR/><BR/>The issue at hand simply isn't about the crime Medellin committed so it doesn't matter how many people want to "push the plunger." The same people would be equally complaining about US sovereignty when they tell some Mexican cop "I'm an American, I want to speak to the consulate," and they're told "Shut the F up" and <A HREF="http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/laplaza/2008/07/mexican-police.html" REL="nofollow">bury their head in a hole full of rats and feces</A>. Sadly, it will likely be someone else who pays for such parochial arrogance, not the anonymous, blog commenters clamoring for executions like some jacobin mob.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-4978359363066795702008-07-31T13:07:00.000-05:002008-07-31T13:07:00.000-05:00Ok, I'll have to stop going to Mexico if they kill...Ok, I'll have to stop going to Mexico if they kill this killer. Seems like a fair tradeoff to me, especially considering the drug wars that are likely to bring Mexico to an end.<BR/><BR/>There are probably several hundred thousand Houstonians who would push the plunger on this guy, folks who remember his horrible crime.<BR/><BR/>How about Texas and the World Court have an agreement. They don't tell us how to run our state and we won't tell them how to run the World Court.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-88004168373829871352008-07-31T06:34:00.000-05:002008-07-31T06:34:00.000-05:00Okay, I'm a little slow...What does STFU stand for...Okay, I'm a little slow...What does STFU stand for?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-65530159209854950972008-07-30T22:15:00.000-05:002008-07-30T22:15:00.000-05:00No more stays for this piece of shit human garbage...No more stays for this piece of shit human garbage. Execute the bastard and do it when scheduled. Rid the Earth of this trash.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70641710398591761782008-07-30T21:55:00.000-05:002008-07-30T21:55:00.000-05:00This matter was settled when SCOTUS sided with Tex...This matter was settled when SCOTUS sided with Texas. The ICJ's interference is nothing more then the undermining of our sovereignty at this point, and Texas' soverignty under the auspices of State's Rights. Until Congress takes action on this treaty; SCOTUS' ruling is the law of the land. <BR/><BR/>That said I hope Perry allows this POS to be put down.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-61527512961060506322008-07-30T13:01:00.000-05:002008-07-30T13:01:00.000-05:00"Do justice, though the heavens may fall." And ju..."Do justice, though the heavens may fall." And justice in this case is giving this p.o.s. the juice!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44870680167421819612008-07-30T11:53:00.000-05:002008-07-30T11:53:00.000-05:00No one will give a damn about this one week after ...No one will give a damn about this one week after he's executed. Bottom line: the ICJ screwed up its ruling--treaties don't usually give enforceable rights and Medellin had ample opportunity to raise this when he appealed.<BR/><BR/>Time to execute this POS. And I hope it hurts too.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-218079314595433522008-07-30T11:15:00.000-05:002008-07-30T11:15:00.000-05:00I'm sort of ambivalent over this.On the one hand, ...I'm sort of ambivalent over this.<BR/><BR/>On the one hand, "If you ain't Texan, I ain't got time for you" as regards to how we do things in the justice system.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, I like to travel...TxBluesManhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15008395777633969757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-33064352397315771942008-07-30T09:12:00.000-05:002008-07-30T09:12:00.000-05:00AHCL, as I wrote in the post I'll be surprised if ...AHCL, as I wrote in the post I'll be surprised if it happens, but it could.<BR/><BR/>As for not finding the reciprocal treatment argument compelling, you must not travel much yourself. Indeed, I think that's why this issue has become confused to the point where it's basically impossible to hold a conversation about consular notification. Pro-death penalty advocates who've probably never left the country think Medellin is purely a death penalty debate - ignoring the risk to Americans abroad because it doesn't affect them - and just scream, "He's a murderer, he should die," as though that's the end of the subject.<BR/><BR/>Most Americans never travel abroad, but for the minority who do the notification issue is a really big deal (including, e.g., corporate CEOs and other monied interests who may be held criminally liable for their companies' actions). Because of Perry's ties to the Bilderberg Group, multinational Texas oil interests, etc., I would not be surprised if he's receiving significant behind the scenes pressure to issue Medellin a stay. I'd personally put the odds at 2-1 he won't do it, but it's not out of the realm of possibility.<BR/><BR/>I think Perry should stay the execution - not for Medellin's sake but for the safety of every American who travels abroad.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-33276394571261203842008-07-29T21:55:00.000-05:002008-07-29T21:55:00.000-05:00I'm not going to enter into the debate over whethe...I'm not going to enter into the debate over whether or not Perry SHOULD grant a stay. I will state for the record that I hope he doesn't. I was actually in the courtroom when Medellin received his new death date, and it was quite a circus. I didn't fine the "reciprocal treatment" argument to be all that compelling.<BR/><BR/>My question, Grits, is do you think Perry WILL grant a stay?Murray Newmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00662196272138109874noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-74344736125016101572008-07-29T19:48:00.000-05:002008-07-29T19:48:00.000-05:00The thing that these editorials overlook is that t...The thing that these editorials overlook is that this issue has already been litigated in each of these cases involving foreign nationals.<BR/><BR/>The Courts have routinely found that, even if the Vienna Consular Convention has been violated, the defendant suffered no harm from these "violations".<BR/><BR/>This is just one more delay tactic for the anti-death penalty people to use.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-61876288807840861482008-07-29T17:12:00.000-05:002008-07-29T17:12:00.000-05:00But Mexico violates their extradition treaty with ...But Mexico violates their extradition treaty with us when they refuse to send anybody back if they face the death penalty.Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13385442821977669208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-16719855130682189342008-07-29T16:53:00.000-05:002008-07-29T16:53:00.000-05:00Blogger Gritsforbreakfast said... Pro Tip: "Do...<I>Blogger Gritsforbreakfast said...<BR/><BR/> Pro Tip: "Don't break the law."<BR/><BR/> Super Pro Tip: Don't be falsely accused.<BR/><BR/> Bonus Tip: Don't be an asshole.</I><BR/><BR/>Sheesh Grits, I almost spit coke out of my nose... heh...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-58427223910748658472008-07-29T15:50:00.000-05:002008-07-29T15:50:00.000-05:00The SCOTUS affirmed his conviction and death sente...The SCOTUS affirmed his conviction and death sentence. He's guilty--morally and legally. Based on the facts submitted at trial and the verdict of the jury composed of citizens of Texas and the UNITED STATES and the affirmation of the courts of this country, the only courts with jurisdiction and authority over this case, the sentence must be enforced.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-32726335018611896032008-07-29T12:47:00.000-05:002008-07-29T12:47:00.000-05:00The only reason Bush and company care about this p...The only reason Bush and company care about this particular treaty is they fear for their own skin... They couldn't care less about you or me or the reputation of the good old USA. <BR/><BR/>They'll be out of office in a few months and vacationing on an island. They don't want to be arrested in Bali and put to the firing squad for war crimes or insults against Islam.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-88873915850946055662008-07-29T12:22:00.000-05:002008-07-29T12:22:00.000-05:00Just saying it doesn't make it true, and again I d...Just saying it doesn't make it true, and again I don't consider President Bush et. al., anti-death penalty and can't understand why you do.<BR/><BR/>This is the case where SCOTUS ruled on the Vienna Convention issue, not some different one with a more sympathetic defendant. For all the reasons you're citing I wish the case where they ruled on consular notification WAS a nonviolent misdemeanor. It would have avoided absurd comments like yours confusing the issue with your gut-level loathing for death penalty abolitionists. But we don't always get to choose the terrain such battles are fought on.<BR/><BR/>Mexico pushed the Medellin case because of IT's opposition to the death penalty, I'll give you that, and that's why it went to the World Court before the other 50 similar pending cases. But once he made it that far and on to SCOTUS, Medellin became the test case on consular notification for ALL offenses, independent of the crime he committed.<BR/><BR/>You seem to imply you'd be more sympathetic to consular notification requirements for lesser offenses, but the treaty doesn't allow us to pick or choose like that; we either comply for everybody or we're out of compliance. And if we're out of compliance, other nations then aren't obligated to extend those rights to our citizens.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11601227098444219162008-07-29T11:50:00.000-05:002008-07-29T11:50:00.000-05:00If the criminal charge against Medellin was a misd...If the criminal charge against Medellin was a misdemeanor committed 15 years ago nobody would even care. Mexico would have never complained and it would be a non-issue. The only reason this is an issue is the death penalty. <BR/><BR/>Death penalty opponents have hitched their wagon to a guy who confessed to gang rape and murder of two little girls. It makes you look silly. There are people on death row more deserving of your attention than this human turd.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44775248635115996482008-07-29T11:42:00.000-05:002008-07-29T11:42:00.000-05:00Pro Tip: "Don't break the law."Super Pro Tip: Don'...Pro Tip: "Don't break the law."<BR/><BR/>Super Pro Tip: Don't be falsely accused.<BR/><BR/>Bonus Tip: Don't be an asshole.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-84357342552880673612008-07-29T11:32:00.000-05:002008-07-29T11:32:00.000-05:00"the big waaaah waaaah crybabies are worried about..."the big waaaah waaaah crybabies are worried about the rights of the confessed killers"<BR/><BR/>You're either a fool or just not paying attention. The reason the debate is centered around Medellin is that that's the case where the Vienna Convention issue was addressed through the courts. If SCOTUS and the CCA were hearing a different case, the consular rights debate wouldn't implicate the death penalty, and as far as I'm concerned doesn't in this instance.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-12950080812390579172008-07-29T11:31:00.000-05:002008-07-29T11:31:00.000-05:00I've traveled a lot in Mexico and Turkey over the ...<I> I've traveled a lot in Mexico and Turkey over the years, for example, and both are places where I'd be pretty darn scared to be arrested without access to the American consulate.</I><BR/><BR/><B>Pro Tip</B>: Don't break the law.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com