tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post5690195457577976373..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Should it be a felony to steal a $35 goat?Gritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-11448038441472777082013-07-16T06:50:00.421-05:002013-07-16T06:50:00.421-05:00Please notice, 8:37, the irony that increasing the...Please notice, 8:37, the irony that increasing the penalty did NOT deter the thief from stealing your son's goat. I get that you're angry. But that doesn't mean the law's rational and it might mean that you aren't being rational, either. Your comment seems emotional but ill-informed: I doubt you know the difference between felonies and misdemeanors or for that matter anything about this debate except the goat end of it.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-44093240879008168412013-07-14T20:57:40.209-05:002013-07-14T20:57:40.209-05:00My son raises goats. He recently had one stolen. I...My son raises goats. He recently had one stolen. If you people would raise you kids with morals and respect maybe you wouldn't' be crying about a felony rap. Would you rather find them in a pasture with a rope around their neck. Teach them to stay the Hell off other peoples property and you will not have to worry. If your family is starving let me try to help you. Or better yet go get a job and buy your own goat. Then you don't have to worry. My self I say we as citizens have the right to protect our property. So if your son gets shot so be it. I am sorry you did not teach him right from wrong. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79893610003510797982013-04-05T06:56:30.691-05:002013-04-05T06:56:30.691-05:00If it's still a problem after this law passed,...If it's still a problem after this law passed, then clearly jacking up the penalties didn't solve the problem, did it?<br /><br />There's nothing special about a goat that means it should be exempt from the monetary theft categories. Get over yourself. You're just not that special that your misdemeanor level loss is more important than thefts from "city boys."Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-14931395277294646232013-04-04T23:26:37.809-05:002013-04-04T23:26:37.809-05:00April 04, 2013
I know this is an old matter. ...April 04, 2013<br /> I know this is an old matter. But, it IS a VERY ongoing problem for farmers & ranchers here in Texas. <br /> We have raised goats for more than 30 years. When we started we could leave our goats safely alone in the pastures @ night. Not any longer! Now we must lock them up @ night & that's not always a perfect "fix" for this problem.<br /> $35.00 goats you say! LOL We raise a relatively new breed of goats in the U.S.A. These Kiko goats have a low end price of (a 3 month old kid)around $450.00 ea. & I have seen them sell for as much as +$5000.00 ea. These are NOT $35.00 goats people!<br /> But even if they were. We CHOOSE to go this for an income. Would YOU like someone to hack into your bank account & help themselves to YOUR paycheck? Actually when a goat is stolen that is just what they are doing to me.<br /> It's hard enough with the high price of grain & hay (not to mention the coyote & stray dog problems we must also deal with) to make this profitable anyway. Now figure in the cost of fencing, employees (IF you can even afford them) & all the other daily incidentals. <br /> Then we still must care for our livestock if it's raining, snowing with the windchill factor of -12, or summer temps of 112. We'll be there taking care of OUR investments no matter what. Are you that committed to your job?<br /> Can you "city boys" possibly understand what a theft like this can do to us? How about if it was your boat or what ever it is that you've worked to acheive? How then would you feel.<br /> This isn't a threat to anyone. BUT, people had better think twice before stealing from me. I don't play around any more. Here in Texas this is a serious offense to us. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-41901526402366854702009-05-04T08:49:00.000-05:002009-05-04T08:49:00.000-05:00Well hell, We used to tie the horse thieves up and...Well hell, We used to tie the horse thieves up and shoot them, or judges used to hand them, so why not now. Would not the castle law allow such use of force if theives were breaking into your 'domain'?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-67609710337357624562009-05-04T01:03:00.000-05:002009-05-04T01:03:00.000-05:00Yes,
I read everything you write. Maybe I'm just s...Yes,<br />I read everything you write. Maybe I'm just slow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-83592748410627873922009-05-01T17:23:00.000-05:002009-05-01T17:23:00.000-05:005:16 - it's as though you've never read a single t...5:16 - it's as though you've never read a single thing I've written. You're railing against some stereotype you carry around in your head, not anything I've said.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-91484927957040287052009-05-01T17:16:00.000-05:002009-05-01T17:16:00.000-05:00Oh Grits, you are being silly. Because a crime car...Oh Grits, you are being silly. Because a crime carries a state jail felony doesn't mean that a person is going to jail, you know that. I don't think there are too many people out the doing hard time for stealing 35.00. Anyway, we all have a right to complain about whatever we want based on what we believe. You seem to think it is the governments responsibility to reform all criminals and drug addicts and to make people become good parents. You support supporting them and providing for all of their needs. Billions of dollars are already being poured into programs even when there is no real evidence that they are effective. I'm all for giving people every opportunity to change but they still need to have consequences and they shouldn't be lax. Most people, if you look at their records, were given chance, after chance, after chance before they finally got in trouble. I am not a fan of big government and I certainly don't believe that a bunch of career politicians are qualified to do much of anything accept be career politicians. I think they have the ability to really screw things up and usually do. I believe that we already enough laws on the books to deal with criminals if we use them effectively. Treatment, therapy probation and other alternatives sometimes work and sometimes don't. Some people never learn, no matter what the penalty. That is on them and they still need to suffer the consequences of their actions. If you just keep letting people off or cutting them a break you are not doing them any favors. Individual accountability is a good thing. We all have different opinions and ideas and I think that is a good thing. I encourage everyone to continue to keep their yaps open. Freedom of speech is a wonderful right as long as we remember to respect the rights of others in the process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-88148106820097404932009-05-01T16:07:00.000-05:002009-05-01T16:07:00.000-05:00Your are right D. Harry, it's eco 101. That's how ...Your are right D. Harry, it's eco 101. That's how we determine the value of just about everything. It doesn't matter whether it's goats, cars, boats, planes, dogs, acres, yards, flower beds, horses, cows, vegetables, vineyards, orchards, etc..What about our own children our homes, our communities? We make alot of investments during the course of our lives that involve our money, our time and our emotions. What's to argue about here? The folks to be upset with are the ones who mean us harm. Those who have absolutely no respect for us or our property. I'm prejudiced against people who fit that description. I don't like to feel vulnerable, violated and insecure and that's how you feel when you are the victim of a criminal act. <br />If a person steals and keeps on stealing they are going to keep on getting in trouble. It is up to that individual to decide to change, some will, some won't. I think we give them plenty chances to do it. We give criminals the opportunity to change, it is up to them to make that change. I try to live in areas where people have respect for each other and their property and crime rates are low. I love visiting my aunt in Tanglewood in Houston. We walk at night and stop and talk to the neighbors and it's nice. I love to stay at my friend's in westlake hill's. We often sit out on the dock until 3:00 or 4:00 in the morning. Not everyone can afford to live in those kinds of areas and those are the people I worry about. There are so many people who's neighborhoods were nice and safe, but are now high crime areas and they can't afford to move. How mny of you think about those people when you are safely tucked away in your gated community, or upscale neighborhood. It is easy to be soft on crime and criminals when you are there.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-62985941782330269692009-05-01T10:46:00.000-05:002009-05-01T10:46:00.000-05:00Then all I can say is keep your yap shut about hav...Then all I can say is keep your yap shut about having your taxes raised if you think it's worth taxpayers spending $18,000 per year to incarcerate somebody stealing something worth $35.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-18823079188743182962009-05-01T10:33:00.000-05:002009-05-01T10:33:00.000-05:00Gritsforbreakfast said...
"There is no difference...Gritsforbreakfast said... <br />"There is no difference. If they're only worth $35, it should be a Class C theft, whether we're talking about a car or a goat."<br /><br />The difference is that unauthorized use of a motor vehicle is a state jail felony. If they are both "worth" $35 to the original owners, then the penalty for stealing them or destroying them should be the same. Personally, I'm in favor of a state jail felony for both.dirty harrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-19057144459439838512009-05-01T06:06:00.000-05:002009-05-01T06:06:00.000-05:00"Please tell me the difference in stealing a $35 g..."Please tell me the difference in stealing a $35 goat as opposed to a $35 car."<br /><br />There is no difference. If they're only worth $35, it should be a Class C theft, whether we're talking about a car or a goat.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-24742342447057738752009-05-01T05:06:00.000-05:002009-05-01T05:06:00.000-05:00It should be a felony to be unreasonable when you ...It should be a felony to be unreasonable when you elected officials, know or should have reasonably known that your constituency would find your unreasonable behavior offensive and irrational.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-15776043950375696822009-04-30T23:40:00.000-05:002009-04-30T23:40:00.000-05:00Gritsforbreakfast said...
"yeah dirty, everybody ...Gritsforbreakfast said... <br />"yeah dirty, everybody knows the rural life in Texas is a pastoral wonderland and that's why those areas of the state are depopulating in droves. Puleeze."<br /><br />I don't know what rag youre getting your info from Grits, but the population in my county is growing in leaps and bounds. The housing shortage here is such where we only had two motels on the loop, we now have five. And, an awful lot of them are coming from Austin, Dallas, and Houston. (It must be the jobs and drop in crime rate drawing them.)<br /><br />Also, I still contend there is no such thing as a $35 dollar goat any more than there is a $35 dog once all the bills are paid. It's a misrepresentation of investment by the owner to say this. Please tell me the difference in stealing a $35 goat as opposed to a $35 car.dirty harrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-67407721209306754002009-04-30T20:58:00.000-05:002009-04-30T20:58:00.000-05:00This bill solves nothing. We seem to have an idio...This bill solves nothing. We seem to have an idiocy-perpetuating cycle the Texas lege. What can we do to break it?<br /><br />Could some artfully-filed cases that end up in the Supreme Court make a dent?<br /><br />How many of these 'felonies' would hold up as legal if they made it to the supreme court?<br /><br />What we have in Texas so much of the time in the Criminal courts is pin the tail on the statute (such as the recent case where Crawford protestors were charged with blocking a roadway when they weren't in the roadway). Each one of these ridiculous laws makes it easier for bad DAs to win at pin the tail on the statute.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-82567747524535678732009-04-30T16:17:00.000-05:002009-04-30T16:17:00.000-05:00So if they've got that many investigators out hunt...So if they've got that many investigators out hunting for bad guys an they're only able to bust 19 per year (most of whom get probation because they're probably petty goat theft), how will increasing penalties help?<br /><br />Seriously, I'm trying to understand the reasoning. Five people went to prison last year. This bill would lengthen their sentences, nothing more. How does that solve anything?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-54202899250249052202009-04-30T16:10:00.000-05:002009-04-30T16:10:00.000-05:00I have to comment on one final thing regarding the...I have to comment on one final thing regarding the correction. The Texas and Southwestern Cattle Raisers Association already has 29 Special Rangers (not the Texas Rangers) commisisoned by DPS to investigate agriculture theft, which includes livestock theft. They assist local law enforcement agents with a number of different issues, and they are not paid for by taxpayers. <br /><br />Here is the AP story, http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gC4umuMFTBCdQCdexHCv2ddnyIZwAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-87757811110340793222009-04-30T15:56:00.000-05:002009-04-30T15:56:00.000-05:00You are right, 3:07, I was wrong, and I just corre...You are right, 3:07, I was wrong, and I just corrected the text with strikeouts and added a Correction/update at the end of the post.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-1593867161516349102009-04-30T15:07:00.000-05:002009-04-30T15:07:00.000-05:00Just for everyone's information. It is already a ...Just for everyone's information. It is already a state jail felony to steal a $35 goat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-43585491821947860602009-04-30T14:38:00.000-05:002009-04-30T14:38:00.000-05:00yeah dirty, everybody knows the rural life in Texa...yeah dirty, everybody knows the rural life in Texas is a pastoral wonderland and that's why those areas of the state are depopulating in droves. Puleeze.<br /><br />Only five Texans went to prison in 2008 for stealing livestock. That's a de minimus number and it's absurd for all of you here to claim that increasing the prison terms of those five people would make any difference whatsoever. <br /><br />I see lots of emotion in these comments (and plenty of snide defensiveness from rural folks) but no actual argument about why boosting penalties will reduce livestock theft when it only affects five crooks per year.<br /><br />Cattle and horses are worth much more and it doesn't take many of them to get to a felony level just on value. But it's ridiculous to not have a misdemeanor charge available for stealing a $35 goat, and nothing said here convinces me otherwise.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79468975175338097562009-04-30T11:57:00.000-05:002009-04-30T11:57:00.000-05:00Here's the thing, Grits. I don't think there is a...Here's the thing, Grits. I don't think there is any such thing as a $35 goat, unless he comes with free feed, and free vet care.<br /><br />And, as far as severe penalties go, I'm a firm believer. I'm happy to live in a podunk backwoods county where everyone is most likely "packing" in one form or another. I can leave my truck in Walmart parking lot with the keys in the ignition and the windows rolled down, and a bed full of building supplies. When I come back, it will all be there. I haven't locked my house since I moved into it. Hell, I don't even know where my front door key is! We have a joke around here that if you lock your door, you must be expecting relatives from out of town. Yes, I believe in severe punishment. It seems to work in my part of the country. A thief better think hard in my kneck of the woods, because theft could get you shot on sight. I definitely call this a penalty enhancement. Oh sure, theft happens. But, it's rare. And, they usually get caught.dirty harrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70828706510632403432009-04-30T09:37:00.000-05:002009-04-30T09:37:00.000-05:00How did the comments here get so far off track fro...How did the comments here get so far off track from "are penalty enhancements effective at reducing theft" to "The Code of the West" and "tales of yesteryear down on the farm?" There is no particular expertise required in the item stolen to comment on penal code enhancements.Mark#1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-37896310869787084182009-04-30T07:21:00.000-05:002009-04-30T07:21:00.000-05:00Wow, some interesting (and defensive) comments on ...Wow, some interesting (and defensive) comments on this string.<br /><br />First, this isn't an anti-rural stance. I grew up raising horses out in East Texas (my father still does so) and I understand how country folk view livestock, which is why I think it's absurd to make it a felony to steal a $35 goat. A $2,000 horse, that's a different matter.<br /><br />Second, no one is defending theft. I'm just saying the punishment should fit the crime, and shoplifting a candy bar at the store shouldn't get the same penalty as stealing a Mercedes off the lot - this post expresses the same idea.<br /><br />As for hanging keeping recidivism down, there was quite a bit of livestock theft back when hanging was the punishment for cattle rustling. It also provided an excellent incentive for thieves to murder any witnesses they ran across. I'm sure you enjoyed making the rhetorical flourish, but is that really something you want to promote to protect a $35 goat?<br /><br />Finally, I oppose needless penalty enhancements in all venues, not just those proposed by the livestock industry. E.g, plenty of city folks tell me I don't "get it" because I <A HREF="http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2009/03/kids-do-less-art-in-school-more-in.html" REL="nofollow">oppose graffiti enhancements</A>. I get it though, I just think boosting penalties won't help nearly as much as better enforcing the laws on the books, which are already plenty tuff.Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-53654485098134237402009-04-30T05:57:00.000-05:002009-04-30T05:57:00.000-05:00Anonymous 4/30/2009 12:52:00 AM said...
"I hear t...Anonymous 4/30/2009 12:52:00 AM said... <br />"I hear that hanging keeps the livestock theft recidivism rate way down. As for other penalty ranges, it all depends on whose ox is getting gored, doesn't it?"<br /><br />From what my gradndparents told me, it definitely kept the incidence of livestock theft down.dirty harrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-79453519766920836012009-04-30T00:52:00.000-05:002009-04-30T00:52:00.000-05:00I hear that hanging keeps the livestock theft reci...I hear that hanging keeps the livestock theft recidivism rate way down. As for other penalty ranges, it all depends on whose ox is getting gored, doesn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com