tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post7298682708798561071..comments2024-03-25T20:06:39.794-05:00Comments on Grits for Breakfast: Excited delirium: Cause or excuse for deaths in custody?Gritsforbreakfasthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-70166907552123233682016-05-25T09:10:20.816-05:002016-05-25T09:10:20.816-05:00I recall that at one time the insurance industry c...I recall that at one time the insurance industry classed diabetes as a 'mental' condition for no other reason than it was a very effective means of denying liability. <br /><br />I should note that more recently the same approach was used for Lyme Disease and other medical problems.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-51208013386313718362016-05-25T06:37:43.244-05:002016-05-25T06:37:43.244-05:00Good to know, thank you!Good to know, thank you!Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-16818833794285320442016-05-24T13:06:09.467-05:002016-05-24T13:06:09.467-05:00De-escalation should be a no-brainer when dealing ...De-escalation should be a no-brainer when dealing with folks in mental health crisis, and the MH peace officer course actually emphasizes that. The course I took also recommended steps to take should the decision to go "hands on" be made and covered what to look for with someone experiencing excited delirium. Death in those situations is often caused by "positional asphyxia," not the delirium itself (which is often brought on by substance abuse and/or mental health issues). The course even listed several behaviors too look for to identify someone who might be in that temporary state so that dealing with them can be more effective.<br /><br />I would recommend contacting Ofc. Frank Webb and Ofc. Rebecca Skillern with the Houston PD Mental Health Division. They conducted the training I went through and are a great resource. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-10877269522133785672016-05-24T05:55:22.780-05:002016-05-24T05:55:22.780-05:00Wow, so the MH peace officer course specifically t...Wow, so the MH peace officer course specifically trains on it! Are there any other preventives besides sitting them up? Do they discuss de-escalation in that context?<br /><br />BTW, I just watched another video of a man who died in restraints at an HEB in Austin last year which would fall within this nexus of circumstances. As you suggest, they had him laying on his back instead of sitting up; he began vomiting then died in transit. I wonder if sitting him up would have saved the guy's life?Gritsforbreakfasthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10152152869466958902noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-45661608609337951752016-05-23T08:33:50.323-05:002016-05-23T08:33:50.323-05:00When I took the Texas mental health peace officer ...When I took the Texas mental health peace officer course, there was discussion about excited delirium as a cause of death while in custody. The lesson was that, when someone was in a state of mental health crisis (whatever the cause), their breathing and heart rate change. When taking someone into custody, it's important to recognize this physical state, get the offender restrained, and then immediately sit them up so they can breathe. I've seen many videos online of arrests in which the suspect is clearly in a state of excited delirium, but the officers don't immediately sit them up once restrained. The offender complains about not being able to breathe, gets more agitated, and the officers continue to hold the offender face and chest down on the ground. In this whole talk of excited delirium, I think the first place to start is train officers to get the arrested person into a seated position to limit that risk. BTW, great post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-2050499005257345002016-05-22T14:59:41.213-05:002016-05-22T14:59:41.213-05:00Maybe we should make up some term to describe when...Maybe we should make up some term to describe when a cop gets killed? Perhaps Concitatus Mortem Autem Malum. Not as catchy as Excited Delirium to be sure, but an accurate description nonetheless. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8597101.post-86018020879751044412016-05-21T14:43:02.229-05:002016-05-21T14:43:02.229-05:00Scott, that's a good summary of the pros and c...Scott, that's a good summary of the pros and cons.<br /><br />There's one more thing to add. Suppose, hypothetically, that there are people who combine adrenaline and drugs to such an extent that they were dying already before the police got to them. Is it evidence against that hypothesis that the same people aren't dying in mental hospitals?<br /><br />Not necessarily, because in a hospital a sedative is minutes or even seconds away. That, by itself, might account for the difference.<br /><br />That line of thought leads to the desirability of psychiatric ambulances staffed with people with reassuring voices and beta blockers.<br /><br />-FredUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11628478698219061504noreply@blogger.com