I'm aware but I need some questions answered please.
How do you scientifically tell Mexican meth from U.S. made meth?
Is it because it's seized from Mexicans, seized near the border, or is there something in the ingredients that distinguishes it?
Superlab meth and non superlab meth. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ice is to meth as crack is to coke. Ice is the drug of choice in Hawaii and you need meth to make ice. Are Mexicans wading the Pacific Ocean with their superlab meth?
Meth according to the experts is a very addictive drug. More addictive than other drugs so if 80% of the meth comes from Mexico that means only 20% is domestically produced.
If those figures are correct then hypothetically, If I'm a meth addict in Tennessee and my addiction is bad that I'm willing to wait for some Mexican to make it, smuggle it, transport it over 1000 miles before I take a drug that I can make immediately at home with ingredients from Wal Mart. Right.
Mexican meth is purer and doesn't use the adulterated ingredients that cause "meth mouth" and other health problems (just like pharmaceutical meth given to soldiers and pilots doesn't cause those side effects). The reason bathtub-gin-style homemade meth causes side effects is the adulterated ingredients they use because of the "precursor" bans.
On the other hand the higher potency of the Superlab meth causes more overdoses and deaths, and the higher prices increase burglaries and other crimes by addicts.
I will say this about Hawaiian ice - so much trade is now happening between Mexico and the Pacific Rim, I'll bet there are plenty of opportunities for transporting drugs from Mexico to Hawaii.
On Mexican vs. domestic meth, pick your poison, basically: More overdoses, deaths, and petty crime, or more small-time meth labs in homes and neighborhoods, some of which occasionally explode. Until we treat addiction as well as go after supply, IMO you're right that meth math just doesn't add up.
According to your theory Grits, the only way to tell Mexican meth from U.S. meth is the user who has to use then experience the side effects.
How do you tell just from looking at it, testing it in a lab before it's used, when it's seized by the police.
I have a little background in chemistry and pharmaceutical meth has it's makeup changed so it's more amphetamine not methamphetamine (which is meth). Kinda like legal cocaine which is a topical anasthetic as opposed to cocain hydrochloride which is not.
I also know a little about making meth and red devil lye which can be used in superlabs or home labs has about 15 or 20 adequate substitutes, if one isn't available. The bath tub style of meth you're referring to is called the Nazi method and most of those ingredients except the pseudoephedrine are easily available.
Which leads me back to my original question. How can you tell scientifically in a crime lab that it's Mexican meth? Where did the term superlab come from? Who coined that phrase and what evidence other than DEA press releases is there that superlabs even exist.
Cocaine is produced from the Coca plant and the labs that produce cocaine aren't superlabs. They don't just exist in Colombia and if we couldn't destroy ordinary labs, so how do we destroy the super ones.
I'm getting confused because it sounds like DEA is saying we know that 80% of the meth comes from superlabs in Mexico. We also know just about 100% of the coke comes from labs (not super) in Colombia, Venezuela, and Bolivia. Gives us more money and more assets to go after the meth superlabs just like you did with the ordinary cocaine labs that still exist.
I have no trouble believing that cocaine is made near the coca plant. It has to be that way just like heroin is made close to the poppy. But meth is synthetic, no plant is involved, and the ingredients are available everywhere but the U.S.
"According to your theory Grits, the only way to tell Mexican meth from U.S. meth is the user who has to use then experience the side effects. How do you tell just from looking at it, testing it in a lab before it's used, when it's seized by the police?"
Actually, I think they can tell. It's my understanding that, because they have to use adulterated products (e.g., ground up cold pills with other additives instead of pure pseudoephedrine) plus other substituted products thanks to precursor laws, the purity of homemade meth is lower and distinguishable.
I'm not a chemist, but that's how it's been explained to me. The pure stuff they give fighter pilots, e.g., is no different in basic chemistry than skanky homemade meth made in the kitchen sink - it's just made in a pharmaceutical setting with less adulterated ingredients. Testing can tell the difference.
Also, the so-called Superlabs aren't just in Mexico. Supposedly there are several in California, too.
That said, much of that information on the testing (from my end) is second or third hand from talking to narcs and defense attorneys. If anybody has more specific first-hand knowledge, please chime in.
Does being a DEA Agent with 23 years of experience count?
Myths of Meth
Meth is a synthetically made drug. It's been around for years and it never went away. There are about 50 ways to make it and adulterants are used to dillute it's potency not make it.
There is no way to visually tell where the meth was made. Crime Labs have what's called "ballistics" tests to look for common chemicals and there's a signature test that can test for common ingredients but saying Meth is Mexican meth withoug some good science and statements from witnesses is like saying all heroin is Mexican heroin.
Purity: I've seen homemade meth using the Ephedrine Reduction technique that turned out to be 90% pure and I've seized meth made in Mexico at 19% pure. There is no purity relationship to where it's made and traffickers dillute it several times at different levels before it gets to the streets.
That leads me to an important point. The flagship of DEA is it's state and local programs; they're task force programs. They're stuck in the multiple arrests, roundup mentality but a press release that reads something like this: "47 people were arrested today in a multi-state, multi-jurisdictional 14 month investigation that targeted large scale meth traffickers with strong links to Mexican organized crime. The entire organization was dismantled and the public is now more safer than they were before. The investigation is continuing and more arrests are expected. There were 25 different local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies that contributed to this effort."
Then you find out that all 47 were arrested. They're locals and 40 of them have one or two arrests. The drugs are 20 to 30% pure and the overtime and drug costs were worth more than the seized drugs. The press release was just a little creative writing assignment and the DEA Agent's who creatively write the best are now leading the Agency.
DEA is just taking advantage of the hype surrounding the Mexican border, illegal immigration, terrorism, and they know if they connect the hype to these issues they could get more people, more money, and more attention. They didn't get a budget increase and my friends in the Agency sense doom.
The Drug Exaggeration Administration is finally reaping what they sow. They haven't targeted the right people for ten years and they are rightfully now the targets.
EXCELLENT!!! Well done by all, good information and open discussion! 800 pound gorilla, YOU ROCK! Right on target!!!
Before 1914 there were NO illegal drugs in this country. The government said 1.3 % of the population is addicted to drugs, so they justified the Harrison drug act! 56 years later when the drug war was started the government justification was, 1.3% of our population is addicted to drugs! Today a " TRILLION " dollars later, thousands of lives ruined, 1.6 million Americans locked up every year! And your government will again justify this failed policy with "" 1.3% "" of our population is addicted to drugs????
EXCELLENT!!! Well done by all, good information and open discussion! 800 pound gorilla, YOU ROCK! Right on target!!!
Before 1914 there were NO illegal drugs in this country. The government said 1.3 % of the population is addicted to drugs, so they justified the Harrison drug act! 56 years later when the drug war was started the government justification was, 1.3% of our population is addicted to drugs! Today a " TRILLION " dollars later, thousands of lives ruined, 1.6 million Americans locked up every year! And your government will again justify this failed policy with "" 1.3% "" of our population is addicted to drugs????
I'm aware but I need some questions answered please.
ReplyDeleteHow do you scientifically tell Mexican meth from U.S. made meth?
Is it because it's seized from Mexicans, seized near the border, or is there something in the ingredients that distinguishes it?
Superlab meth and non superlab meth. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Ice is to meth as crack is to coke. Ice is the drug of choice in Hawaii and you need meth to make ice. Are Mexicans wading the Pacific Ocean with their superlab meth?
Meth according to the experts is a very addictive drug. More addictive than other drugs so if 80% of the meth comes from Mexico that means only 20% is domestically produced.
If those figures are correct then hypothetically, If I'm a meth addict in Tennessee and my addiction is bad that I'm willing to wait for some Mexican to make it, smuggle it, transport it over 1000 miles before I take a drug that I can make immediately at home with ingredients from Wal Mart. Right.
I'm aware but the meth math don't add up.
Mexican meth is purer and doesn't use the adulterated ingredients that cause "meth mouth" and other health problems (just like pharmaceutical meth given to soldiers and pilots doesn't cause those side effects). The reason bathtub-gin-style homemade meth causes side effects is the adulterated ingredients they use because of the "precursor" bans.
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand the higher potency of the Superlab meth causes more overdoses and deaths, and the higher prices increase burglaries and other crimes by addicts.
I will say this about Hawaiian ice - so much trade is now happening between Mexico and the Pacific Rim, I'll bet there are plenty of opportunities for transporting drugs from Mexico to Hawaii.
On Mexican vs. domestic meth, pick your poison, basically: More overdoses, deaths, and petty crime, or more small-time meth labs in homes and neighborhoods, some of which occasionally explode. Until we treat addiction as well as go after supply, IMO you're right that meth math just doesn't add up.
According to your theory Grits, the only way to tell Mexican meth from U.S. meth is the user who has to use then experience the side effects.
ReplyDeleteHow do you tell just from looking at it, testing it in a lab before it's used, when it's seized by the police.
I have a little background in chemistry and pharmaceutical meth has it's makeup changed so it's more amphetamine not methamphetamine (which is meth).
Kinda like legal cocaine which is a topical anasthetic as opposed to cocain hydrochloride which is not.
I also know a little about making meth and red devil lye which can be used in superlabs or home labs has about 15 or 20 adequate substitutes, if one isn't available. The bath tub style of meth you're referring to is called the Nazi method and most of those ingredients except the pseudoephedrine are easily available.
Which leads me back to my original question. How can you tell scientifically in a crime lab that it's Mexican meth? Where did the term superlab come from? Who coined that phrase and what evidence other than DEA press releases is there that superlabs even exist.
Cocaine is produced from the Coca plant and the labs that produce cocaine aren't superlabs. They don't just exist in Colombia and if we couldn't destroy ordinary labs, so how do we destroy the super ones.
I'm getting confused because it sounds like DEA is saying we know that 80% of the meth comes from superlabs in Mexico. We also know just about 100% of the coke comes from labs (not super) in Colombia, Venezuela, and Bolivia. Gives us more money and more assets to go after the meth superlabs just like you did with the ordinary cocaine labs that still exist.
I have no trouble believing that cocaine is made near the coca plant. It has to be that way just like heroin is made close to the poppy. But meth is synthetic, no plant is involved, and the ingredients are available everywhere but the U.S.
"According to your theory Grits, the only way to tell Mexican meth from U.S. meth is the user who has to use then experience the side effects. How do you tell just from looking at it, testing it in a lab before it's used, when it's seized by the police?"
ReplyDeleteActually, I think they can tell. It's my understanding that, because they have to use adulterated products (e.g., ground up cold pills with other additives instead of pure pseudoephedrine) plus other substituted products thanks to precursor laws, the purity of homemade meth is lower and distinguishable.
I'm not a chemist, but that's how it's been explained to me. The pure stuff they give fighter pilots, e.g., is no different in basic chemistry than skanky homemade meth made in the kitchen sink - it's just made in a pharmaceutical setting with less adulterated ingredients. Testing can tell the difference.
Also, the so-called Superlabs aren't just in Mexico. Supposedly there are several in California, too.
That said, much of that information on the testing (from my end) is second or third hand from talking to narcs and defense attorneys. If anybody has more specific first-hand knowledge, please chime in.
Does being a DEA Agent with 23 years of experience count?
ReplyDeleteMyths of Meth
Meth is a synthetically made drug. It's been around for years and it never went away. There are about 50 ways to make it and adulterants are used to dillute it's potency not make it.
There is no way to visually tell where the meth was made. Crime Labs have what's called "ballistics" tests to look for common chemicals and there's a signature test that can test for common ingredients but saying Meth is Mexican meth withoug some good science and statements from witnesses is like saying all heroin is Mexican heroin.
Purity: I've seen homemade meth using the Ephedrine Reduction technique that turned out to be 90% pure and I've seized meth made in Mexico at 19% pure. There is no purity relationship to where it's made and traffickers dillute it several times at different levels before it gets to the streets.
That leads me to an important point. The flagship of DEA is it's state and local programs; they're task force programs. They're stuck in the multiple arrests, roundup mentality but a press release that reads something like this: "47 people were arrested today in a multi-state, multi-jurisdictional 14 month investigation that targeted large scale meth traffickers with strong links to Mexican organized crime. The entire organization was dismantled and the public is now more safer than they were before. The investigation is continuing and more arrests are expected. There were 25 different local, state, and federal law enforcement agencies that contributed to this effort."
Then you find out that all 47 were arrested. They're locals and 40 of them have one or two arrests. The drugs are 20 to 30% pure and the overtime and drug costs were worth more than the seized drugs. The press release was just a little creative writing assignment and the DEA Agent's who creatively write the best are now leading the Agency.
DEA is just taking advantage of the hype surrounding the Mexican border, illegal immigration, terrorism, and they know if they connect the hype to these issues they could get more people, more money, and more attention. They didn't get a budget increase and my friends in the Agency sense doom.
The Drug Exaggeration Administration is finally reaping what they sow. They haven't targeted the right people for ten years and they are rightfully now the targets.
Well there you have it. Thanks for the info!
ReplyDeleteEXCELLENT!!! Well done by all, good information and open discussion! 800 pound gorilla, YOU ROCK! Right on target!!!
ReplyDeleteBefore 1914 there were NO illegal drugs in this country. The government said 1.3 % of the population is addicted to drugs, so they justified the Harrison drug act! 56 years later when the drug war was started the government justification was, 1.3% of our population is addicted to drugs! Today a " TRILLION " dollars later, thousands of lives ruined, 1.6 million Americans locked up every year! And your government will again justify this failed policy with "" 1.3% "" of our population is addicted to drugs????
There Has To Be A Better Way!
Rusty White
Speaker www.leap.cc
EXCELLENT!!! Well done by all, good information and open discussion! 800 pound gorilla, YOU ROCK! Right on target!!!
ReplyDeleteBefore 1914 there were NO illegal drugs in this country. The government said 1.3 % of the population is addicted to drugs, so they justified the Harrison drug act! 56 years later when the drug war was started the government justification was, 1.3% of our population is addicted to drugs! Today a " TRILLION " dollars later, thousands of lives ruined, 1.6 million Americans locked up every year! And your government will again justify this failed policy with "" 1.3% "" of our population is addicted to drugs????
There Has To Be A Better Way!
Rusty White
Speaker www.leap.cc
For your Immediate Attention Grits;
ReplyDeleteConvicted Meth makers now must register.
Border problems, terrorism, illegal immigration, and now attaching drug problems to things like child abuse, pedophiles, and sex offenses.
When you have people who know how to manipulate your mind, they do it, and they do it like this, I am horrified.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15971396/