Legal, stowed weapons okay in vehicle
Reacting to Texas prosecutors who'd continued to arrest legal gun owners in spite of the Legislature's intent in a bill from 2005, this year the Texas Legislature set in stone the rights of legal gun owners to carry a weapon in their vehicle without violating the law. (Regular readers may recall The New York Times profiled the bill and discussed a public policy report I wrote on the subject.) The new statute says an individual cannot be charged with unlawfully carrying a weapon (UCW) in their personal vehicle unless:
- the handgun is in plain view (not found as a result of a consent search),
- the person is engaged in criminal activity other than traffic violations,
- the person is legally disallowed from owning a weapon (e.g., past criminal convictions), or
- the person's name is in the state of Texas' criminal street gang database.
Changes to concealed carry statutes
Speaking of CCLs, holders of concealed handgun permits will only have to renew their permit every 10 years instead of five, as the law previously stood. In addition, the names of CCL permit holders will no longer be public records.
I'm fine with reducing the renewal requirement, but I think it may have been a strategic error for gun rights supporters to push for making CCL records closed. Having those lists public has allowed the media to doublecheck claims by gun rights opponents that concealed carry permit holders commit more gun crimes, and almost universally that's not the case. I've never heard of a burglar filing open records requests to identify targets - after all, that would leave a paper trail - but media analyses based on access to those records have helped assuage public fears over CCL carriers and paved the way for expanding Texas gun owners' rights. I'm not sure cloaking information about CCL holders in this case will assist the advance of liberty's cause.
Castle Doctrine
This bill changed less in Texas' statutes, which already protected homeowners who shot burglars and trespassers pretty strongly, than in other states where it has passed. San Marcos Police Chief Howard Williams said that even under the new law, a homeowner must "have an articulable fear for your safety.” That's still the case under the new statute.
Keep your gun in a a disaster
SB 112 actually took effect this spring, but it forbids law enforcement agencies from taking away people's guns in the aftermath of a natural disaster, reacting to police confiscation of weapons in post-Katrina New Orleans.
" the rights of legal gun owners to carry a weapon in their vehicle without violating the law."
ReplyDeleteI'm curious if that statement means that another person that is riding in your vehicle, isn't allowed to have a firearm in that vehicle for "protection?"
If there was 5 people riding in a car and each had a gun it would be wise for the "driver" of the vehicle to claim all 5 guns were his, if they were pulled over and the guns were found? In Texas it doesn't take any paper work to sell or give a "friend" a gun at any time.
As long as we have incompetent law makers is Texas, there will always be a loop holes in the law.
I'm not a lawyer and I was paraphrasing the bill language, but it's my understanding this also applies to passengers. The law doesn't say just the driver, and it's not a function of who owns the gun, as I understand it. The statute says it's okay to carry a gun "inside of or directly en route to a motor vehicle that is owned by the person or under the person's control." best,
ReplyDeleteAt least they learned something from Katrina. The government doesn't need to go around confiscating weapons (unless from an arrest) from citizens. I thought that was the dumbest move on their part.
ReplyDeleteI'm guessing Chuck Rosenthal here in Harris County helped prompt this revamp.
I for one am pleased to see the clarification of the "carry" rule. Having been a victim of assault when my handgun was in the trunk of the car has always made me question.
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Nurit - but the idea that a readily available gun in a car [that is not easily seen] will deter a violent criminal does not add up. Criminals have never announced their presence and intentions to me before robbing me - thus giving me time to locate and use a handgun. This has to be the biggest urban legend around! If I am close to a car and I have the opportunity to start the car or find a concealed handgun I'll take the former. This anecdotal evidence for the possession of handguns deterring crime is as good as the anecdotal evidence that Meth [and not the drug policy that drives up costs of addiction] causes violent behavior. Depicting the atypical as typical is lying.
ReplyDeleteJT, lots of folks who run businesses carry a gun in the car to make bank deposits, etc., and it's not always the case that a gun won't protect you. It doesn't "deter" violent criminals, it potentially gives you a way to react to them besides just being a victim.
ReplyDeleteAnd Jason - Rosenthal, unfortunately, lobbied pretty consistently against gun owners rights since I've been going up to the Lege. I don't know what he did on the disaster bill, but if he supported it it would be out of character.
ReplyDeleteRosenthal with any luck and if people of Harris County will take notice of the way he thinks he has a crown on his head, will be defeated in the next election.
ReplyDeleteI don't know where he thinks his power comes from, but he thinks he can do anything he choses. If ever someone needed to find another job, he would be the man!!
As the bill reads, it does not allow a passenger to carry a weapon unless the passenger is the owner of the vehicle.
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, under this new law, you can carry a club or knife without any requirement that it be concealed.
Thanks, Ken, for the clarification. So in your opinion if the driver knew about the weapon and it met the other requirements but belonged to a passenger, it wouldn't meet the exception?
ReplyDeleteI can see where under the "person's control" could be read to mean only the driver, but I wonder if a passenger bringing a weapon with the driver's consent (e.g., I just bought a gun from you and you give me a ride home), might not meet the qualifications? best,
I am 71 years of age and have to drive to doctors appointments once a month. Our cars are in my husband's name. Would I be considered as an owner also or would I have to have my name on the title? Also, we have a second home in Houston where my son lives. Since the house is in our name, would my son be liable if he had a gun in his truck and was walking from his truck into the house? I was told by a police office, keep the gun concealed; if you are stopped inform the officer you have one; legal only if you are leaving your auto and entering your residence and vice versa. All other situations are illegals. Is this correct?
ReplyDeleteCurious
JT,
ReplyDeleteYou may change your mind should you ever be confronted by a knife weilding crack addict approaching the window of your vehicle while stuck behind other traffic at a traffic light. It happened to me in Houston. Who knows what may have happened had I not had my handgun with me?
Don't forget that a knife over 5 1/2 inches is considered illegal.
ReplyDeleteI was confronted in a fast food driveup window lane by a man demanding my money. I rolled up the window and used my cell phone to call the police as he stood outside my window banging on my windows screaming at me that he was going to kill me. If he had a gun he could have easily killed me. If I had a gun I could have easily "deterred" him with it's presence, even if I didn't have to use it. This experience scared me so badly that I never use drive-up windows that provide no escape, so it changed my life. I'm glad now to have the freedom to mind my own business and protect myself if need be.
ReplyDeleteIf all this hoopla is supposed to have the intent of enhanceing security to a person, and if the law requires that the gun be somewhere other than plain sight or within easy acccess, Then for all it intents and purposes any possibility of protecting ones self is nullified as the very inaccessibility of the weapon makes it impossible to actually use it when needed.
ReplyDeleteSimplified, If the gun has to be locked up or in the trunk or anywhere that makes it difficult to reach,, then whats the point of having it in the car. By the time you retrieve it and load it, Then it will most often be to late. You have already been victimized and the criminal is probably well into his getaway.
I think you are confused.. it doesn't say anything about being locked up and unloaded...
ReplyDeleteYou may carry a loaded gun tucked in your pants, in a holster under your jacket or where ever you like while in your car as long as it can not be seen in plain view without having to have a CCL permit.
So it can be very readily available for self defense, it just can't be lying in plain view in the passenger set, or on the dash board to "deter" crime.
If I were a criminal do you think I'd give a damned about a law stating I can't carry a gun?
ReplyDeleteSo why are requiring lawful citizens to register and give up personal privacy just to have the right to defend ourselves with equal force that a criminal will use illegally?
Yes I have CHL. I don't think it is right to have to register but it beats becoming a criminal just to be able to defend myself from a criminal!
I wonder why this bill didn't retroactively free folks serving prison and restore their rights as well? I know of one guy who lost everything and served time....now what he did is legal.
ReplyDeleteJust speculating. I would never anticipate the Gov being just or rational.
As far as being unable to reach your gun in your vehicle. It simply needs to be put under your front seat, or in my case between the driver seat and the console, provided it is not plainly visible.
ReplyDeleteYes it does deter some crimes. If a criminal is going to shoot, he will more than likely not warn you that he is intending to do so. Instead, he will shoot and take what he was after.
What about motorcyclist? Can they carry it on their persons instead of under the rear seat? what is the law on that?
ReplyDeleteYhis law is only following our Constitutional right to bear arms.
ReplyDeleteAlthough cliche' if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Decent citizens should have the right to protect themselves.
Yhis law is only following our Constitutional right to bear arms.
ReplyDeleteAlthough cliche' if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns. Decent citizens should have the right to protect themselves.
I just bought a handgun the other day (about to take the CHL class in a month or 2) and only now did I start reading up only Texas gun laws and such. After reading about all the changes, I would like to say that I am proud to be a Texan and very glad I live in a state that allows us law-abiding citizens to protect ourselves, our property, and our loved ones.
ReplyDeleteThere used to be a waiting period for handguns, but when I went to buy it, I walked out with it in about 30 minutes. I just had to fill out some paperwork which wasn't all that bad either. Good stuff. Next I want to get a rifle and a shotgun. Those are just as easy to acquire and has even less restrictions! God bless America...
JT Barrie Wrote, “ every time I have been robed, a hand gun wouldn’t have helped me”!
ReplyDeleteMr. Barrie, I guess you haven’t had even the very basic of awareness training!! Neither I nor any of my associates have ever been robed! Why? Not because I have a heightened spidy sense, but because my eyes and ears never stop moving and surveying my surroundings.
I pray you are never robbed again, but be thank full the robber now has a choice to make, either me with my concealed hand gun staring him down or you walking with your head in the clouds!! LOL you crack me up!!
I have a CHL. I carry large amounts of cash frequently. Against my better judgement but part of my job. My weapon is loaded and in the center console of my truck.
ReplyDeleteI was approached on a Dallas intersection by a guy that wanted my vehicle. I think. We didn't have much of a conversation about it.
He showed me the pistol tucked in his pants.
I reached into the console and brought out my weapon and let him get a barrel-end look at it.
He decided to go find an easier mark. I called the DPD and let them know what happened. Don't know if they ever ran across the guy.
I was not a victim.
I ride a motorcycle and there is no real defined answer for me on wether or not i can carry my gun while riding my motorcycle. I do not have a concealed hand gun lisence.
ReplyDeleteGet a CHL and ride in safty!
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that most of the comments left anonymously are from people that oppose the current laws. I suspect that these people would change their views if they were car-jacked (as has so often happened to drivers left without defense due to previous laws). The bottom line is that you just never know. Nobody ever gets up in the morning thinking, "Hmmm. I'm going to have some coffee and then go get car-jacked on my way to work."
ReplyDeleteI don't carry a gun (licensed, in my vehicle, or otherwise) because I think it WILL happen to me, but because I know that nobody ever thinks it's going to happen to them when it does. I am a Marine. I've been in gunfights. Staying alert can save your life. More importantly, it can save the life of your wife, son, daughter, nephew, niece, grandson, mother, father, brother, sister, or perfect stranger working the wrong cash register at the wrong time of day or night.
I don't have a problem laying down my life in defense of innocent bystanders, but I'll be daggummed if I don't have the means to defend them and choose not to use it by ignoring good old fashioned TEXAS LAW.
So the law now says you can have the gun on your person in your vehicle but what about motorcycle riders? Does the same still apply since the rider really isn't "in" the bike but "on" it? Anyone know?
ReplyDeleteIn North Texas the Castle Doctrine does not apply.
ReplyDeleteI clerk at a convenient store and Bro. Smith is my constant companion. I deal w/alot of money and my weopon is in my holster out of sight. Here in the hood a druggie killed a young 18 year old clerk for a carton of cigs. By being alert and the grace of God noone is going to decide for me if I get to go home at night.
ReplyDeleteI've recently moved to Houston from Virginia. I have a VA CHL. My question is do I have to take the Texas CHL class or can my VA CHL be transfered?
ReplyDeleteI've moved to Houston from Virginia. I have my CHL form Virginia. Does anyone know if I must take the Texas CHL test or can I transfer my VA CHL?
ReplyDeleteMr.Williams you must take the Texas test. as you can see everyone talking about the rights in Texas. Most states are not going to be the same as far as whats legal and illegal sure the government makes the rules but if say a mayor or Governor doesn't want something in there city or state they can more than likely get it taken away like in New York try and carry a hand gun they have a gun free state
ReplyDeleteOutstanding. It's about time law-abiding-citizens were allowed to protect themselves as it is their right to do so. I do and have carried a pistol in my vehicle when traveling and was always in fear of being stopped by police. I am a law-abiding-citizen and feel that if I am driving across the vast expanses of Texas, I need to have protection for myself and my familty. The new has clarified that I now can do so without fear of being treated like a criminal in case a police officer stops me for a traffic violation.
ReplyDeleteTexas is on the right track but some folks will never get it. They are the weak minded sorts that believe something they overheard at the gym or had passed down to them like some old wives tale. Case in point...the post stating that "in North Texas the castle doctrine does not apply" from 11/2008.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if anyone else has heard anything about the "open carry" law that is supposedly being talked about in the Texas Legislation. I haven't heard anything about it for awhile now and was wondering if it had been passed or not.
ReplyDeleteThanks,
Mike from Texas
Yeah Ive heard about it. Its called the 2nd amendment. "Right to keep and BEAR arms"
ReplyDeleteAny other law is a violation of the constitution and the sheeple have willingly allowed states to make these laws and then abide by them. I can bear arms according to the constitution and you people seem to think we need some kind of special law or permit to do so. No wonder we are losing our country. No one has the balls to stand up and claim their rights. How aboout aq gun in at the state capital with everyone open carrying? Make a stand before they legislate you to death. Any law they pass has 0 impact on somebody intending harm. The laws are nothing more than to keep the common man defenseless against tyranny.
I ride a motorcycle and it is one of my personal vehicle's so I say it applies. The statute doesn't say it only applies to cars. I also have a permanent convertible top street buggy and a pickup truck and those aren't specifically mentioned either.
ReplyDeleteThe only factor for consideration is if you've been carrying a gun in your jacket and you need to stop and you don't have a CCL. You have to be able to move the gun to storage on your bike without being seen by prying eyes. That would require pulling over or moving to a private location before moving the gun.
The open carry law, last time I checked, was still stuck in a committee and has not been put into a bill form for the legislature to consider. Now that the Obaminator is president it may never get to bill form. They'll just wait for him and his posse to ban everything including koolaid.
iv been doing alot of reading on texas' gun laws, and it states that you may have a firearm in the vehicle if the vehicle is yours or in your control.. there are different stipulations to this, i wouls suggest going to www.texas-on-line.com/gun. really informative
ReplyDeleteA co-worker of mine was telling me that necause of this new bill I could carry my handgun loaded in my truck with the barrel stuck down inbetween the seats. Im not super confidant that it counts as being in "plane sight" or not. What do you guys think?
ReplyDelete"quote: Im not super confidant that it counts as being in "plane sight" or not. What do you guys think?"
ReplyDeleteI think you are pushing you luck with simply sliding the gun between the seats pointed down. The rear of the gun may end up being visible after driving around and moving around in the seat. You'll probably be asked to step out of the vehicle and if warranted, an officer may poke around the cabin. Looking straight down now, he'll see the weapon. Kind of grey area there on that one. I consider plain view as seen from a normal persons position outside the car and the amount of car interior that can be seen in these positions. Try wrapping it in a shop cloth or one of those terrycloth wipedown 3 packs sold in auto parts stores.
And this gets to the one major point I'd like to make with you all. Each and every officer is as different as each traffic stop.
My foremost observation applies to all persons. Ignorance of the Law!
You would be surprised how many officers are really not that adept in remembering details, verbage or intent behind many laws and are subject to his/her interpretation.
As the saying goes, tell it to the judge. Or, you may beat the rap but you won't beat the ride.
Ignorance of the law, especially in citizen ownership is often below par in my opinion. And not just guns. I'm always amazed at the complete lack of general knowledge people tend to have on many important subjects. Especially if it determines weather or not you you go to jail.
First thing ANY gun owner should ever do is read the Federal, State and Local laws. All laws and regulations can be found on the internet. Go to NRA website as they make it easy to find your areas without having to browse through everything else.
I'll make another point citizens can look into. You can "legally" be armed most of the time, in many places in Texas. For example, you can already have a long gun, rifle/shotgun in your cabin with you in Texas. The interesting point about this is, it has to be in view. Hence the rifle racks seen in trucks. Downside is truck break-ins. Contrary to this new law, which must remain concealed, mostly so it does not alarm other citizens. Remember, many times average citizens are easily alarmed and don't even know you can buy a gun in Texas. Amazing but true, usually older women. They will call the police in a panic.
Basically it will come down to interpretations in your area. Local prosecuting attorney Chuck Rosenthal here in Harris County has a bad attitude about this and defies intent of this law, he said prosecute as always.
Actually why I'm here today. To see what, if any new news is on this subject. I saw a blog of other prosecuting attorneys asking each other if this has come up yet for them. None had a good opinion how best to handle this at the time, they were are all looking for someone who has had a case for a "go-by" for their use.
Best thing you folks can do is know the law. Second, be smart. Go ahead and get a spare duffle bag with a couple change of clothes you don't really wear anymore. Get a ziplock bag and put an old toothbrush and a hotel bar of soap in it, place those in the duffle bag. Throw that in the backseat with a Texas road map and you'll be good to go. Figure out your story now, so you can repeat it over and over as you're being questioned. Where'd you say you were going again? Who'd you say you're going to visit? They'll mix these type questions up and ask repeatedly trying to get you to slip up. Have a place and a friend and a reason, why you are traveling. They will try to use jedi mind tricks and get you to slip. Don't slip!
Why is it that just about every other person with a CHL from other states are allowed to carry in Tx, and we in Tx with CHL are not allowed to carry in thier states?
ReplyDeleteGod Bless Texas legislature! I agree with the supporters of the gun law. Anyone sensible human being should be able to comprehend that having a gun in arms reach WILL provide them an opportunity to protect themselves in potentially dangerous situations. For all of those people that dont support this law - wait until you and your childrens lives are put at risk and see if you dont see the light.
ReplyDeletetwo posts ago the question was why are other states allowed to carry in texas but not the other way around.
ReplyDeleteSimple answer, Because texas state legislature says they can but the dumbass liberal states or the stupid states don't want to fight the federal gov't over the issue.
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ReplyDeleteI recently bought 2 hanguns and have not had a chance to take get my CHL yet. I manage 20 rental properties for my uncle that are in very dangerous locations with a high rate of crime. Do i have the right by law to carry my hangun to these houses while picking up rent?
ReplyDeleteIf you think there is high crime rate in a particular state then it is definitely necessary to have a gun. But people should not misuse. It is good to allow the guns only inside the house and the vehicles while traveling.
ReplyDeleteFlorida driving school
It depends on the crime zones. Its safe to have a hand gun for self protection to defend. Proper training and guidance should be given before issuing them the weapons.
ReplyDeleteDrug and alcohol test for Florida permit
Guns should be given only to those people where the crime rate is high. If these go into wrong hands then it create more harm to the society.
ReplyDeleteFlorida Internet Traffic schools
Hopelessly outnumbered
ReplyDeleteThe main point of carrying a weapon is to detter attack. How can this be done if the weapon is concealed? If you are visably armed the bad guy will go elsewhere. I have rarely heard of a armed officer being mugged but I have often heard of CCL holders being forced to draw thier weapons.
"If I were a criminal do you think I'd give a damned about a law stating I can't carry a gun?
ReplyDeleteSo why are requiring lawful citizens to register and give up personal privacy just to have the right to defend ourselves with equal force that a criminal will use illegally?"
I realize this comment is way past due. But in response to the preceding comment and others like it, the laws are there to allow prosecutors to prosecute criminals or would-be criminals in possession of firearms. In the eye of the law, it cannot be distinguished who criminals might be. Hence, we have laws. Whether or not they are good laws is questionable, but if you don't obey them, you become a criminal.