More than 70 inmates at a Texas juvenile prison ran from their dorms and climbed into trees or on top of buildings before staff got them all back inside, Texas Youth Commission staff said Tuesday.
No injuries were reported in Monday's night's incident at the Giddings State School in Giddings, the agency said.
The incident started at about 8:30 p.m. when 74 inmates forced open fire exit doors and ran out of their dorms. Some of them climbed trees and others climbed to the roofs of buildings, said TYC spokesman Jim Hurley.
"There were no fights, no injuries. They just ran around like, well, kids," Hurley said.
The Giddings facility currently holds 375 inmates. Giddings police and the Lee County sheriff's office helped secure the perimeter to prevent escapes while TYC staff got the inmates back into their dorms. The final group of students climbed down from the gymnasium roof about 3:15 a.m.
"TYC works with a unique population juvenile offenders. You have to be prepared for offender behavior, but you can also expect juvenile behavior," said Tim Savoy, TYC communication director. "Fortunately, the youth in this situation were not attempting to assault staff or other youth, or cause major property damage."
A usually reliable reader, though, emailed yesterday to say the situation was more serious than that, that the kids had caused significant property damage. I've not confirmed this report with TYC administrators, but this reader says that
On May 6, 2008 48 youth were transferred from the Giddings Unit to the Mart Unit. Additional Giddings youth will be transferred to the Mart Unit to stabilize the Giddings facility. ... Mart 2 was near riot status within the past few days. It is only a matter of time before riots are common place due to staffing shortages.So which was it? As TYC PR man Tim Savoy put it, was this a "disturbance" in which "the youth ... were not attempting to assault staff or other youth, or cause major property damage"? Or was it a "riot" that threatened the safety of staff and students? I'd love to hear opinions of those who were there or have more information or background on the topic.
If those kids are organized enough to pull off a mass exodus from the dorms like that, the agency's darn lucky they didn't appear to have significantly malicious intent. As understaffed as TYC facilities are, if the kids really wanted to they could probably just take over with that kind of coordination!
TYC's Giddings facility is the flagship for the whole agency, so if their staffing problems are leading to mass disruptions, I wouldn't be surprised if other, even more understaffed facilities have similar problems soon. What are folks hearing about this episode?
RELATED: From Children and the Law Blog, Interpreting Ambiguities in Media Coverage of Youth Behavior.
There is no doubt in my mind that TYC PR folks are downplaying almost every incident in an effort to look as though TYC is running well. The truth of the matter is that TYC should have been put down long before Eight Belles. If a staff or youth is seriously hurt or killed, TYC PR will not be able to fix that up and present it in a nice and pretty package to the media, and I believe it is just a matter of time before that happens.
ReplyDeleteLast August, when I left TYC we had all been instructed not to use the term "riot" in public.
ReplyDeleteThis means the official line will always read "disturbance" instead of reality.
davidt500
I don't know anything about the incident at Giddings, but I do know that at WTSS we were put on alert for possible problems due to the Cinco de Mayo holiday. We didn't have any unusual problems with the youths, but we did have one dorm where only one staff showed up out of four assigned for the two shifts, and the case managers assigned to the dorm had to help cover the absences. This is an excellent way to lose licensed counselors that are desperately needed to implement the new program.
ReplyDeleteI do know that it is almost taboo to say the "R" word (riot) and that admin gets uneasy whenever you circle the "Participation in Riot" indicator on an incident report (3 or more youths acting together to cause a disturbance/ disruption of scheduled activities).
Anyone who has worked in this system for some time knows the difference in a "riot" and a "disturbance." Staff almost always calls incidents like this a "riot." If they've ever been involved in a real "riot," they'll understand the difference.
ReplyDeletePlato
Plato: What is your agency's definition of a riot? The post previous to yours defined a "Riot".
ReplyDeleteThe political correct statements are "minor disturbance" (No major damage or serious injuries); Distrubance (Some damage and some injuries). and a major disturbance (Media has photos of serious property damages and injuries are serious enough to be transported of the unit for treatment and/or a death resulted).
Seventy-Five "wards of the state" running around the facility being "kids" indicates to me that the "wards" are in fact in control of the facility, regardless of the agency's press spin.
TYC will have some major disturbances if the management doesn't establish control of the "kids".
I have to ask this question based on a previous TYC "disturbance" incident; Did the youth get cookies and /or ice cream as an enticement to return to the dorms?
Retired 2004
They did do a 911 call to every facility to send staff NOW.
ReplyDeleteHow many staff showed up from other facilities to help? I know some drove more than 2 hours to arrive.
Riot or disturbance? Whatever the difference, it is of real concern to those of us with kids in TYC facilities. The state has our kids, and yes, they are where they should be for making bad choices; however, as parents, we expect whom ever has taken on the responsibility of safeguarding them, to keep them safe. Not all kids at TYC just pass their time and get out. Some know they are there to change their way of thinking and behaving and want to get through the program so they CAN be better citizens. The good kids are lumped with the "ner do wells" and don't have the opportunity to separate themselves from those that are causing all the trouble as we do in the free world.
ReplyDeleteTYC can't be an easy place to make a living; however, they are what they are, a safe place to rehabilitate children, kids, young people. What will it take to make it a safe place for staff and kids? Obviously, they don't know either. One thing they could do is take the politics out of it, and do what is in the best interest of the kids.
I am and plan to remain active in my child's life. That is my responsibility. I also intend to keep holding those who have my child, responsible for his safety.
A concerned parent
Where is CPS and DFPS when you need them?
ReplyDeleteWhen I was a kid, we used to do the same thing to new school bus drivers.
ReplyDeleteWe called it a "Chinese fire drill". Everyone in the bus would bail out the back exit, and run up to the front to get back in.
The effect was to drive the driver crazy. It's all power games, only on a juvenile level.
I wonder who is in control at Giddings.
Bill
The Collin County Observer
About a year ago, the same thing was happening at the Al Price unit and the media was even called out because you could see the kids from the freeway on top of the roofs of the buildings. What happened you ask??? The dumb superintendent just stood there outside the building telling them to come down. How stupid is that?? Then she made staff stand guard outside in the heat watching these bad ass kids. By then Austin had been notified and the whole administration either got fired or demoted. YEAH!!! You talk about drama.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I have to admit, that was pretty well planned. Somehow, they were able to keep it quiet, or did they? Did anyone hear what was gonna go down? If they did, I'd bet they wouldn't admit it now. It's been my experience that these kids can't shut up and coordinate to well. But then again, they very well could have this time. Watch the copy cats, cuz we all know staff are gonna be talking about this in front of the other kids.
ReplyDeleteInteresting story. The reporting of these sorts of incidents can be difficult to interpret.
ReplyDeleteTYC's tone here is almost schizophrenic, especially the line about "juvenile" and "inmate" behavior. Typically the public has been told to fear inmates as incipient adult criminals.
Prior to the 1970s, inmate "riots" and mass escapes were often carefully orchestrated and/or encouraged by staff to coincide with public criticism, investigations, or court cases against the agency. The intention, often, was to remind people that the inmates were dangerous and that therefore TYC had to be left to its own devices without outside meddling.
Here, I have to say, the issues seem quite different. Not sure what to make of it.
Bill B.
You know even if they were at their mandated 1:12, they couldn't stop something like this from happening... this kind of thing is a right of passage for these kids. It's like a tradition. It's big time fun for them, but it's going to be big time fun in the big house for those sentenced offenders involved. Stupid is what Stupid does.
ReplyDeleteI would have to agree with the writer that it was probably down played. Now for the shift to Mart, as a mart employee, riots or disturbances happen daily. The staff and the Super are to scared to do anything about it. We got notice that if we speak about any of this - we were fired. Take a look at Mart in the next few weeks as Giddings high security transfer here.
ReplyDeleteNo folks, giddings is not the only SS to have this issue. Evins had it too. And do you know how they managed to get the kids down from the roofs?
ReplyDeleteYup, your right, Ice Cream and extra tray of dinner. A Reward for bad behavior. Seems to be a trend throughout TYC.
Since you destroyed the furnature little bobby, here is a ice cream. Just do not do it again.
I once questioned this logic and was told that "We do not want to bring focus on ourselves."
Instead of rewarding criminals to gain compliance, here is a novel idea, TYC gets the crimnals the help they are supposed to be getting, to become productive citizens and stop being a baby sitter service for the kids the parents do not want.
As for the staff shortage, it will continue to get worse as long as we are told to not do our jobs due to P.R reasons or unless the administration starts backing up the staff, starting with Austin.
Retired '04. My definition of a riot is when you call in all the staff, call the police and shiriff, Texas Rangers and DPS and have to retake the facility using tear gas. mace, night sticks, slappers etc. as was done at Brownwood State School back in the mid-90's Remember?
ReplyDeleteNow that's a riot.
Plato
understaffing,they won't let us do the job we know how to do.If the rug rat's want to climb a tree or get on the roof they are going to.There is nothing you can do about it.It does not sound like a riot to me,it sounds like fun day in the zoo.Next time they do this and they well give them banana's.I can see the staff yelling at these kids.Stop climbing up that tree,get down from roof.All we need know is a Big Top.lol
ReplyDeleteIt doesn't seem like anyone who works at Giddings is posting here. I'm wondering what really happened. What was the trigger for the event? Gang rivalries? Restriction of privileges? Normally there's a reason why inmates riot. A discussion about how or if the incident is being "spun" by TYC seems to me to be of limited usefulness. Clearly, understaffing is part of the problem, along with whatever specific trigger motivated the youth. The reality is that these youth could probably take over the facilities at any time, if they chose to.
ReplyDeleteNot only were 48 youth transferred to Mart TYC a few youth were transferred to TDCJ-ID that were sentenced offenders. The bottom line is if staff from other units were called in and better than 50 youth have been transferred then this is much more than youth acting like kids. Also local law enforcement was called in to help contain the youth and prevent a mass escape. There was extensive property destroyed at Giddings by the youth when they broke out of the so called secure buildings. I don’t see the mini police force in Mart, Texas being able to help much if there is a mass run. Mart is where a number of youth escaped in the recent past. The TYC youth are getting bolder with each incident. It appears they are testing response times and use of force. Media might want to open record photographic evidence of the damage done at Giddings because it exists. The damage was documented by administration. If TYC says the photos and documentation doesn’t exist they are flat out lying!
ReplyDeleteWhere is the pepper spray when you need it??
ReplyDeleteKids can do anything and receive nothing for doing it. They can destroy a classroom, hit someone, say F"" you in the hall and what ever they want. They will be back in the class or dorm in minutes after being referred to security or these useless Huddle ups and time outs.
ReplyDelete10-20 staff per KID, does not matter because NO one has any say so on what the kid is doing. There is no consequences for their actions and these kids know it. They tell you what you can do and not do to them.
This makes me sick to read the cover up bullshit that Hurly is spitting out.
In answer to the question of if the incident at Giddings was a disruption or a riot, under GAP 95.3 "Participation in a Riot - youth intentionally participates with two (2) or more persons in conduct that threatens imminent harm to persons or property and substantially obstructs the performance of facility operations or programs. Incident must take place in a TYC facility or contract program." Under TYC regulations there is no requirement that there has to be a threat of "major" damage or there has to be an assault on staff or an injury for there to be a "riot."
ReplyDeleteThe existence of a threat of iminent harm to people or property is all that is required. I would bet one of those 70+ youth threatened either injury to someone or property damage so the answer per TYC policy would be "riot" since there is no question that there was a substantial disruption of facility operations.
Howard A. Hickman
KWTX Channel 10 Waco just ran a lengthy segment on the Riot at the Giddings TYC Unit. Over 40 Giddings youth have been transferred to Mart 2 TYC Unit at Mart, Texas. Looks like it did happen after all. The news report said additional staff from other units was brought in as well as local police. TYC is sticking to their “Kids will be kids” explanation of the riot. The video of the News 10 report should be on line later tonight or in the morning. The is a headline story on line now but it lacks 90% of the 6:00 PM news story.
ReplyDeleteAlso the AMP Unit is now closed at the Mart 1 unit. The TYC AMP Unit violent youth were placed in general population to prey on more victims. The AMP Unit housed the most dangerous and violent youth in the entire TYC system and now they are free to do as they please with the kids who are trying to make it out of TYC unhurt. How bad can it get at TYC? What are the people in charge doing? I have seen nothing to date in the entire mess to make me believe anything has been made better. I can’t see that the new conservator has done much except fire a few hated administrators to keep staff from walking out with no real changes of substance. I cannot help to believe some of the TYC youth are being abused by the State of Texas to a much higher degree than the children at YFZ ranch by keeping them in TYC as it is today. We can trample the Constitutional rights of a religious group for the children’s safety but the state allows TYC to place the youth in their care in a much more dangerous position and no one seems to care. What is wrong with the elected officials in this state? I guess all we can expect in Texas is backward thinking from those who we elected to run the State of Texas into the ground.
TYC special ed personnel from all over the state are at Mart this week to help handle the intake of the Giddings students, and clear up a massive backlog of special ed paperwork resulting from a shortage of personnel at Mart. Al Price sent over their best diagnostician to help, but there is also a major shortage of personnel over at Al Price. They almost cancelled classes the past couple days due to personnel shortages. They have a temporary superintendent, and just hired a new principal. The new vice principal that came on board a few months ago is AWOL, and nobody can find her.
ReplyDeleteWow, I did not know that they closed AMP. What a waste of a valuable program that at one time was helping out the youth and the other facilities by being able to get the most dangerous youth out of their facilities. What next? Will CRTC be next on the hit list? It is an absolute shame that an Agency designed to help young people is slowly being flushed down the political toilet. The Lege, the Conservator, and Gov. Goodhair need to pull their heads out of their asses and do something in regards to this TYC mess.
ReplyDeleteSince leaving TYC (EVINS) in 2007 administrators always encouraged staff and case managers NEVER to use "RIOT" only disturbance. They advised over and over that the only reason and time to use "RIOT" is when the disturbance significantly stops, halts or interferes with facility activities/schedule and daily living activities. Which obviously this incident would of if it lasted from 8pm to 3am. that impedes on staff shift changes, lights out and what not. TYC has a good PR person that really does know how to downplay and spin the severity of these incidents. Some Grits readers should look into Evins. These types of "riots" um er.. disturbances happen often. staff are still being confirmed with cases of abuse on a daily basis. talk about shortages...
ReplyDeleteTo answer one question "is CRTC next", Yes it is on the hot seat and most feel it is going to go away.
ReplyDeleteI heard that there were numerous fights at Mart today and now the entire place is on Shut Down.
If the “Disturbance” was kids being kids why were a few of the kids transferred to the adult prison system due to the Giddings incident on May 5th? Does this mean TYC is transferring children into the adult prison system for child like behavior? The story from TYC Austin just does not add up. So much for the new open TYC and the new conservator! The conservator is just another Perry political hack and errand boy. If Perry appoints them they can’t be working for the public.
ReplyDelete9:41
ReplyDeleteDon't ridicule the new conservator or put him in the same category as Perry. He has worked very hard and is trying to make changes necessary but remember that he can not do this by himself.
As far as the kids that may have been transfered to TDCJ after this incident, they had to have been sentenced offenders. The sentenced offenders have to work the program and demonstrate appropriate behavior in order to remain in TYC, otherwise they can be transferred to TDCJ. They may be awaiting transfer or were already scheduled to be transfered but it is unlikely that they have already gone to TDCJ in such a short period of time over this incident that occured
Unless TYC has changed policy and protocol, it's a pretty long and drawn-out process to transfer a youth from TYC to TDCJ-ID.
ReplyDeleteIt's highly unlikely, then, that youth have been transferred to TDCJ-ID based solely on what occurred this week.
Everyone please pray for our friends at the Mart facility, who continue to roll with the punches.
ReplyDeleteFrom someone on the inside, TYC is a sick agency that has only gotten worse during the past year. There is no accountablity anywhere that makes any sense. I think a kid or staff member will be dead before anything changes. I love those TYC kids and the dedicated people that are trying to help them... but it is not worth my life. The 'disturbance' is just one more symptom.
ReplyDeleteI have been told TYC makes the decision to transfer youth to the prison system now. They are not required to return to court. Also the youth may have been arrested on new charges as an adult and taken to the county jail. But who knows what is going on at TYC since they are so truthful and open.
ReplyDeleteI agree the new conservator has done little except make employees at TYC feel better. As a tax payer I want to see progress which is clearly not happening. He looks like another dud to me too. He has been there for many months and what do we have to show for his high paid time on the job. No programs are in place to meet the needs of the children and it is a much more dangerous place than ever. The conservator has not had time to even start to plan for a regional facility which was funded by the Legislature to the tune of $250 million for some reason. Yep he is a real go getter! I noticed on the news he still has Tim Spin-doctor. telling lies for TYC just like the old guard. Nothing has changed nor will it. Open and truthful are words that you use with TYC unless you are Tim Spin-doctor!
9:52,
ReplyDeleteYou must be Nedelkoff or his wife. You need to get real, the Conservator has done nothing, but send out a few feel good emails to the employees. As long as Perry is in office, nothing will change.
I agree, the current situation from the new conservator has been the Dr. Feelgood approach. Get rid of Dementia -- fire Bronco Billy -- but place a posting for Executive Director that he has no intention of filling because the state's plan is to sunset TYC.
ReplyDeleteUnderstaffing AND lack of leadership in TYC caused and will continue to cause disturbances/riots in TYC units.
ReplyDeleteAction should be taken NOW! (or for those that think action is to strong a word, change to read "decisions should be implemented"). the time for dialogue (only)is over!
A classification system is a must; especially when dealing with young offenders. Doing away with Anger Management Programs and other programs that separate the "trouble makers" from the "general population", without replacement programs, creates major problems!
The violator must understand for every action there will be a reaction. And for you "ice cream manager types"; a negative action calls for a negative reaction. Ice cream and an extra food tray would be a positive reinforcement for bad behavior. Do you understand my dialogue?
TYC will be receiving Youth that are management problems and the communities will be keeping the other youth. The youth that fail repeatedly in the communities will then be arriving at TYC (or straight to TDCJ). Adequate staff AND programs must be in place when this time line is reached. The only alternative is to send them straight to TDCJ.
Dr. N; you need to consolidate your staff and units. De-populate and/or shut down units to accomplish this. Re-evaluate your admin staff and put those that are being chiefs and have no indians, in the field (at the units). Get rid of those that are not doing their jobs, regardless of their presumed political connections. Quit vacillating and take some action!
Retired 2004
After working closely within the confines of TYC, it is apparent that they have a layer of upper-administration in Austin that will try to "wing it" whenever they make decisions or testify before the lege. At the same time, they still have some dead wood at the units that needs to go. The people who actually know what they are doing and make things work are caught in the middle. I don't see how they get enything done. It it starting to become obvious that they don't get much done, as a great deal of special ed services are either way out of timeline, or never get provided at all.
ReplyDeleteRight on 2004. Several units need to close. Evins should be 1st or
ReplyDelete2nd on the list. Abuse, neglect, corruption, graft and just downright waste is the soup du jour down here in the valley. NOTHING good happens here, ever. Those days are long gone. Flush the toilet already.
Whether you call it a riot or a disturbance, from what I am hearing happened at Giddings was simply due to the Cinco de Mayo holiday. It was not what one would think a typical uprising would be based on (conditions, treatment, lack of whatever the inmates want, etc). These were a small number of kids who wanted to celebrate the holiday in their own way and most likely brought in a few more kids with them. Running around campus is one thing, but breaking doors and property is another. They went too far in their playing around.
ReplyDeleteI wondered if it might just be a Cinco de Mayo prank!
ReplyDeleteIt's a good thing the kids weren't savvy enough to know May 5 is also Karl Marx's birthday! That celebration might have taken on a different tone (e.g., perhaps issuing a "manifesto") than commemorating Mexico's 1862 defeat of the French!
Even more ominous, May 5 is also Soren Kierkegaard's birthday. Now THAT celebration could cause a riot! Indeed, viewed from that perspective, perhaps students' relative ignorance of history and modern philosophy helped avert a mass suicide! ;)
This is what happens when the focus is entirely on rehabilitation and punishment is viewed as a dirty word!
ReplyDeleteAren't these kids going to be punished for what they did, 11:01? Why do yo think they won't?
ReplyDeleteA Cinco de Mayo prank? I don't think so. How many of those youth involved were Hispanic? Which youth planned this disturbance? How long ahead of time was it planned? Why didn't any students come forward and warn staff before it happened, or did they?
ReplyDeleteI am not saying they won't be punished for the incident that took place. I am saying that an atmosphere that is focused primarily on rehabilitation should expect these type problems. I am sure that the majority of those involved in this incident have been on probation and likely placed outside the home in a residential program prior to their commitment to TYC.
ReplyDeleteTYC is a prison for youth and should be operated accordingly. I am not suggesting that rehabilitation should be neglected; however, accountability, punishment, and public safety should be our number one objective when juvenile's conduct escalates to the point where incarceration is the only option.
I disagree that the new conservator is a dud, and I'm not his ex-wife. He's doing a good job trying to lead this agency out of the shithole, where it currently is. TYC is more dangerous than ever? According to who? Based on what? TYC staff have been complaining since 2006 about the dangerousness of the units. The Evins riot that led to the DOJ investigation happened in 2005.
ReplyDeleteThe comments on this post seem particularly subjective and uninformative to me. There's a lot of "everything sucks", "Gov. Perry is the worst", and "the new Conservator sucks too." Yet, there's never been any consensus on this blog about who was a good leader. Some folks line up behind the punishment/corrections oriented folks and others line up behind the treatment-oriented folks. I usually consider the comments on Grits' TYC posts to be a good way to get intelligence on what's really going on in TYC. But, this one doesn't seem to have produced much of anything useful. I still haven't seen any comments from someone who claims to have actually been at Giddings when the incident occurred.
Organized criminal activity is as it does.
ReplyDeleteGet your facts right 1:17. The riot at Evins that precipitated the DOJ messtigation happened October 30, 2004.
ReplyDelete01:17 p.m.: What has he done to LEAD????????? TYC has not a leader in a long time (Hint:The leader was big).
ReplyDeleteRetired 2004
"...Has not had...
ReplyDeleteRetired 2004
1:17,
ReplyDeleteI never claimed the Conservator was a dud, just another political pawn that can't find his rear end with both hands.
Thanks for the correction, 1:36. Just proves my point.
ReplyDeleteSteve Robinson "led" TYC right into the mess it's in now by building up all these open-bay beds.
Yep, after eight years of nepotistic rule from Steve Robinson (Bob Bullock's ex-son-in-law) TYC got Dwight Harris and the TDCJ rejects and now the private company reject. Sunsetting is the only answer after this chaos.
ReplyDeleteYou crack me up!!!
ReplyDeleteA few months ago---AMP was a terrible place, how could we put a youth in solitary confinement like that???? It should be done away with!
Now that it is done away with, people are complaining that we have no where to send the dangerous youth.
Make up your mind!
Hey Grits, look at it like this...The Giddings State School had a total youth population of 375at the time of the incident, and multiple dorms were involved. No attempts to assault staff or other youth. The doors that were compromised were still left unsecure, so the other 301 could have very easily joined the chaos, but didn't. What does that tell you?
ReplyDeleteThe 74 or so that were involved were probably at the back end of the bell curve as far as intelligence goes, especially if they were sentenced offenders.
This was nothing short of a "Harass Staff Day." We hear about it from Trece' on Cinco de Mayo day, and from the Bloods and Crips around Juneteenth, so gear up fellas. And as always, Independence Day always comes in with a bang, year after year after year somewhere.
Riot?
I'm with Plato on this one. That was no riot but a bunch of dumbass youthful offenders showing their IQ. - Lata'
These 74 were not where they were supposed to be from about 8:30 p.m. until about 3:00 a.m. the next morning? May I ask what Staff did during this time frame? Obviously they (staff) didn't put them ( the 74) where they were supposed to be.
ReplyDeleteRetired 2004
Retired 2004
ReplyDeleteHow exactly do you expect the staff to put the kids where they were supposed to be? If the kids get on the roof, do you go up there and push them off, pepper spray them or restrain them? If staff go up there to get them at all they risk the chance of hurting themselves or the kids. You just have to wait it out.
prior to your retirement how was this type of situation handled.
Retired '04 is retired from TDCJ, not TYC.
ReplyDeleteYou want us to flash bang 'em retired? I mean your experience in TDC is noteworthy and appreciated, but we have very different rules to engage this type of activity than TDC. And to be honest with you, what I'm seeing that's coming out of TDC's Terrell Unit doesn't look any different than what happened at WTSS. Corrupt is Corrupt. Are you guys next? Are we going to sunset TDC thus let all of the counties "take care of their own?"
ReplyDeleteHey John Whitmire: Let's just do the whole village, shall we?
I guess Crockett is seeing kiddie behavior too when a "youth" got his handcuffs around the neck of a JCO and tried to choke him in an escape attempt. TYC is not safe for staff or kids. I guess we need more ice cream, TVs, and games. That should fix it.
ReplyDelete1:17pm - I was not at Giddings. Thank the Lord I got off the sinking ship a few months ago. What I can tell you is that what I witnessed at one facility over the past year was rarely reported correctly. Riots (by TYC policy definition) were called "unrest" or disturbance and were severely sugar-coated. TYC will never fix the problems (no matter who the leader is) until it knows what it is dealing with. Communication is still very poor on all levels. There are a lot of staff out there who want to do a good job and do their best but the Agency has set them all (staff and youth) up for failure. The public and the Lege would be shocked to know the truth about what goes on. You don't realize how bad things are until you distance yourself from the chaos for a while. It really is an unhealthy place to be, whether living there of working there.
ReplyDeleteTo Giddings staff who witnessed the "disturbance" on 5-5-08:
ReplyDeleteHas the cat got ALL of your tongues? I believe the purpose of this blog was to get your input.
61 comments later...we are still waiting!
Hey Whitmire, you jackass! Flush the damn toilet already. Or.. we'll begin to think you really don't have what it takes to represent us in Austin. Comprende?
ReplyDeleteGood point 9:49, it is time to get rid of this pile of crap called TYC.
ReplyDeletedoes anyone know who is left in HR I heard someone else left.
ReplyDeleteSome of the people on here just don't get it. TYC will try to cover up anything that they perceive will make them look bad and that's been a lot in the last year or so.
ReplyDeleteI feel the new conservator is actually trying to get us turned around. The problem is, he hasn't a clue just how deep this "good ole boy" agency is. Until he figures out that he can't trust many of those that are still in control especially at the local facility level, he won't really get anywhere. Until he decides that, as an agency, we're not going to sugar coat anything and we're actually going to tell things as they are "the truth for a change" we'll never get any better. Until he looks into these things himself and doesn't trust the "good ole boys" to do it for him and then fires those who try to deceive the public, we're going to continue to fail the taxpayers and the youth.
As far as being punished. You must be kidding. HOW? Take away the ice cream???? Understand this. They are going home no matter what they do (unless they assault staff and maybe even then too) at the end of their MLOS. And you'd better believe they know it. That's why they didn't actually hurt anyone. They get to have a good time at TYC's and the taxpayers' expense and nothing will even come of it. Oh, they may not get their phase, but that doesn't really matter anyway.
Did someone say "pepper spray"? Well, we've already been told that real soon, that will be done away with and will not be allowed to be used.
Did someone say punish (as in writing a 225). Funny joke that is. They will either get thrown out or come up missing just in time for phase assessment. They are aware of the problems with the 225's disappearing but simply will not initiate a system where it could be tracked as to who was the last one to have it in their possession. Why???? So they could disappear, that's why. They want it that way and they want the ability to say, "we don't know what might have happened to it". Never mind, we've been told that 225's are going away too.
Instead of punishing bad behavior, we're going to try the old trick that has failed every time it's been tried anywhere at any level. We're going to ignore the bad behavior and give them privileges, etc. for being good and magically, they will all decide to be good instead of doing anything bad. Are we idiots or what.
Let's see, they are going home anyway, they are not going to be punished, they can't be sprayed and heaven forbid you put your hands on them. What teenager wouldn't want to have that situation. Ignore any staff request, curse the living heck out of everyone who dares to try to correct their behavior, disrupt every activity any way they want to and not fear having to be sprayed, restrained, punished in any real way. I sure hope they don't tell all their "home boys". We might just have to build more facilities. This sounds like a fun place to be for many who have never had their own room, medical and dental attention, clean clothes, 3square meals, don't have to worry about being beaten up or shot and you can say anything to anyone you want and darn well had better be protected from harm. I don't know about the riot at Giddings, but this whole thing is a "riot" to the kids. (as in funny, that is). Someone had better get a clue real soon or we're down the toilet. I believe I can feel the water starting to swirl already.
While Giddings staffing numbers are higher than they have been for quite a while, there is still not an actual 12:1 ratio for youth on dorms during their evening routines. The population numbers were also much higher than they should have been. However, the situation at Giddings was not caused by understaffing, or with too much of a rehabilitative focus (Riots usually occur more frequently in more punative environments).
ReplyDeleteThe real problem belongs to the legislature and subsequent administrators. Other facilities saw the impact of the idiotic decisions made by legislators and other narcissists with motorcycles and tiffany paperweights (aka kimbrough and the pope) over the past year. The youth culture at Giddings, which has a very experienced staff base, was just slower to erode.
Grits, the real question is what else would you expect? These youth are in an agency that had no clue what it was doing for several months. I think the conservator is making important changes. Unfortunately he came along after the other idiots spent 10 months trying to destroy the agency. These kids sense the weakness and confusion of the staff and administration and are acting accordingly. The kids need to know the rules and the consequences... right now in TYC, neither are especially clear.
While certainly not acting like angels (thousands of dollars of property damage and engaging behavior which could have seriously injured staff...throwing materials from the roof)TYC is fortunate the youth did not have more sinister intentions (escape or serious violence).
10:14 I do believe you work for TYC! Why? Because you just described what happens daily at TYC and the kids attitudes.
ReplyDeleteYour correct and if people believe these kids are going to react to privileges, god bless em. You have to take something away and have some rules first. We have no rules that apply to the kids and nothing to remove. They know the phase mess is going away and doing time is all they got and how ever they choose to do it.
I can not find one thing that has changed for the people who work there. Grivenaces do not work for the staff just like before, administrators have their favorites and still covering for their friends behavior and lord help us if administrators are not watching each others back.
Flush it and that is the feelings of allot of people who are still working. Sad part is Flush It, is coming from good season staff that are just wore out fighting the battle. You know I am one of those season staff that needs it to stay open to retire with full benefits and I say to hell with it. Flush it
If y'all are so unhappy with the changes in TYC - go on to TDCJ. Why be miserable? Quit whining and man up. Quit already and go bully the grown folks locked up in TDCJ! It's time to get back to the basics that were lost way back in '95 when the "corrections" folks started running off most of the staff who knew how to deal with kids without a whole lot of bravado and intimidation.
ReplyDeleteTYC is what you get with NO leadership, No focus, NO real support, A worthless Governor and pure lack of funding accountability to include the hiring of Stupid Ignorant People as administrators and staff. OTHERWISE, known as politics!
ReplyDeleteGiddings is funded for 300. The number during the riot was 375. Ask Whitmire why?
ReplyDeleteWhitmire doesn't know. Nor does the current TYC administration. The total failure of this agency is embedded in the internal politics and the governors office.
ReplyDeleteTYC must get back to fundementals by establishing a clear mandate, appropriate treatment programmming with competent staffing and pay, measurable goals and most of all an entirely new administration without any political ties. Only then will this agency be clear to begin the processes needed to turn around what has taken place.
In essence shut it down. Re-formulate, re-organize and re-build slowly. If not, then the state and TYC will continue to 360 around with no direction within a maze of confusion.
Whitsfoe: I just want you to make them obey the rules; which is a part of your (TYC's) mandate isn't it? You have rules but you didn't abide by them (ref. Howard Hickman's entry concerning the TYC rule defining a riot).
ReplyDeleteI have worked with juveniles when I was in law enforcement, probation and parole. When I was at Giddings and Gateville, years ago, the wards of the state did mind! Without discipline you cannot begin to rehabilitate/ treat offenders.
This thread is not about TDCJ (Lord knows they have more problems than TYC) and I am retired from that agency(One of three retirements). I do find it interesting that both are ruled by the same legislative committees.
Whitsfoe I do have empathy for the good employees of TYC. I firmly believe you are about to become extinct.
Retired 2004
There are severe staff problems and shortages at Giddings. What actually happened at Giddings was that several students got into the PA system and played the Monster Mash over the intercom. All hell broke loose after that.
ReplyDeleteThere were not enough staff to monitor that area.
One thing no one has mentioned about the Giddings Unit is that it is where the Capitol Offenders are located. There are many 1st degree felonies housed there as well. These are children who have committed murder, rape and robbery. My point being, these are not low level criminal youth. If TYC cannot control the serious offenders just how safe is the public? I am also curious why these serious offenders were taken to the Mart Unit to be mixed with general population youth. When one or more of these children escape to rape and kill again the problem and solution will get a lot clearer for us in the general public.
ReplyDeleteI think it is time to close TYC and rebuild the juvenile justice system in Texas. Shift the kids care back to the counties except for the serious offenders like the ones at Giddings which should be housed in a max security facility until they are transferred to adult prison at age 18. Build the regional facilities with medical and mental health care then slowly reopen the system with all new administration.
It is clear, no one seems able to clean up TYC regardless of how talented or experienced they may be. The current conservator seems to be a highly qualified administrator but he obviously finds himself in an impossible situation. Like an old car, if you can’t fix, junk it!
Can TYC be fixed? I wish I could answer "yes" to that question. We have had some replacements of key administrators, yet the system remains intact.
ReplyDeleteLook who sets and enforces the norms and expectations at each facility - yep, the same old faces with the same old attitudes. The same old network of friendships and inbred relationships - which translates to the same old practice of cover up, "let's stick together," and "watch my back and I'll watch yours."
Despite the best of intentions, Nedelkoff and the new administration seem to have little understanding of the nature of TYC and what caused us to go over the cliff. He seems to be wanting to forget all that talk of the past and form close and warm relationships with the same old parties. By doing so he is putting his stamp of approval on the same old culture of corruption. That blind eye makes a lot of friends, but....
Unless we have a clear analysis of the past and a true understanding of the nature of the current culture, we are building a new TYC on a foundation of sand. It will cave in fairly soon. TYC seems to be fated to live out its tragic script and seems determined to stay the course no matter what.
bjgicBlanche Quaterman left HR 10:10pm.
ReplyDelete9:24
ReplyDeleteNot sure if you are aware but most of the facilities have these same types of offenders although Giddings has more treatment programs to offer and has the majority of these more violent offenders at their facility. Probably all of the facilities have sex offenders as well as some other violent offenders, remember the goal now is to keep them closer to their homes even if that facility does not offer the treatment program that the youth should be in.
Hey Retired -04
ReplyDelete"Whitsfoe I do have empathy for the good employees of TYC. I firmly believe you are about to become extinct."
Not if I can prevent it. Those JCO's are so confused as to what is acceptable and what is not. You and I didn't have to worry about that much during our early years in the agency because it was once a competitive job. Aint no more.
The negative campaign amongst our so called leader on Congress hurt us, and the uncertainty of our future remains questionable. That makes it hard to attract the qualified, and I know you know what I mean.
But I do think it's getting better. Looks like the OIG is stepping up and holding those kids and staff accountable and we really needed that. Looks like we're getting smaller, and that'll lead to more attention to some of the most ridiculous behaviors, but in a better way than just shying down and ignoring it. In all honesty, it starting to look like (or the pattern), pre-Bush. Staying in TYC shorter and coming back on parole revocations. That was the issue back then when I came on.
Gee it makes you wonder what if they'd might consider short term intervention in a High Restiction TYC facility until certain criteria are met, where they don't have to meet their mlos before moving to a medium restriction/contracted care program close to their community. Good kids move. Bad kids don't.
Have a good weekend folks... the shad are running and its Bass Season! Wished I was Retired in 2004. - Your faithful - Whitsfoe
I tend to believe that this little incident was something more than "adolesent behavior" due to the fact that so many youth ended up being transferred and some even sent on to TDCJ. If you think conditions at Giddings are bad now, just wait until the brain trust at Central Office install Debra Harris as Superintendent there. Her claim to fame is being very tall and running off all the male JCO VI's and the PhD psycholgist at Sheffield. Another in the long line of inexperienced, unqualified appointees who are clueless about running a TYC facility. Some things never change. Keep an eye on Mart II. If this was just a boyish prank, nothing should happen with the kids they got from Giddings. It could happen...couldn't it?
ReplyDeleteNo, gremlins caused it!
ReplyDeleteMaybe Ms. Harris can screw up a campus the way Bluebell screwed up Crockett and then she can get a letter of thanks and a cubicle job for the same money. We just keep on rewarding bad behavior don't we. Some "leadership".
ReplyDeleteWhile all this politics is going on, the JCOs and the kids continue to pay the price.
9:24:
ReplyDeleteWhy would we keep the serious young offenders in TYC if only to transfer them to TDCJ at age 18? There is no point. In your model the serious juvenile offenders really should just be tried as adults and sent to TDCJ. The youth would not bother even thinking about engaging the treatment process. There is a point to treatment. Several intensive programs, including in TYC, have demonstrated success in rehabilitating youth. The cost of not attempting to rehabilitate is enormous. The paradox in Texas is that intensive treatment for juvenile offenders is really the most fiscally conservative option, but Texans who are fiscally conservative don't believe in rehabilitating these kids. Stupid really.
Also 9:24, none of the youth involved have been transferred to TDCJ. TYC does not have the authority to transfer a youth to prison. TYC can only make a recommendation to the committing court for transfer. The committing court decides as to whether a youth should be transferred to TDCJ. This is a very formal and extended process. Certainly has not happened since Monday.
Also, none of the youth from Giddings are in general population at Mart.
As far as the different types of offenders at different facilities, it is true there are serious violent and high risk sex offenders at all facilities. As mentioned previously by others, Giddings just happens to offer three specialized treatment programs (targeting the highest risk kids) so the population there is a bit more concentrated. However, many youth with indeterminate sentences are very high risk. The difference between these youth is largely not the function of the youth's characteristics. Rather the committing county, quality of defense attorney, and chance that the youth did/did not get caught make the difference, in many cases, somewhat arbitrary.
Finally to reiterate, the problem really has not to do with facility characteristics or youth characteristics. The problem is a combination of inconsistency in adminstration and really stupid decisions regarding the development and implementation of a new treatment program, use of force policies, and generally just running of many excellent employees. It seems administration is stabilizing some with the new conservator. i think the people he has brought in will ultimately do a good job in changing the culture. it will take time to iron things out and then mold the new programs and it will definitely require more money.
Lets not forget Senator Whitmire's highlighting the enormous size of central office positions. Streamlining the administrative organization, and reassigning these financial resources to institutions, and staff salaries, will go a long way in securing stable staffing patterns. Which will ultimately have a huge impact on the quality of treatment.
Whitsfoe - I would love to share some information about OIG and their handling of a few cases that I know of and I think your view might change a little. Maybe one day.....
ReplyDeleteThey may do some good work somewhere, but they're all not so shiny and well, ethical.
One really serious problem at the time is the rumor mill of closing of facilities and the possible Sunset of TYC.
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to step up to the plate and let staff know who is on the hot seat and when. I know alot of attitudes are "what the hell, they are going to shut us down anyway"!
Most believe they are just snowballing to keep people from bailing out before they are ready to send us packing. Leaving you with out a job to feed your family and no insurance! That kind of thinking leads to bad attitudes and problems. Once again staff needs some honest answers on this topic.
You can't heal or fix an agency that the people believe is in the toilet waiting for Austin or the Leg to flush!
A year and a half later little has changed at TYC in the way of improvements. In fact it is more dysfunctional than ever. There are no real treatment programs in place today and staff shortages are common place. Classification of the inmates in TYC must be nonexistent based on the posts saying the serious offenders are now in general population at all units. Medical and psychological treatment is subpar to nonexistent. The reason for the failures at TYC is irrelevant to the tax payer. What matters to the tax payer is that their tax dollars are being wasted. In the real world only positive performance matters and excuses are not acceptable. It matters not who is to blame; a failure is still a failure. My personal expectation is that as many of the youth in TYC are given the required services to change their life style as possible. From what I read TYC is an out of control holding pen for juvenile offenders that has no positive value and even promotes antisocial behavior in the youth. It is time to try something new in Texas juvenile justice that gets the job done. No more excuses!
ReplyDeleteLook @ TDCJ budget and the bang you get for your buck there if you want to get mad about something as a taxpayer.
ReplyDeleteLook @ the education system in Texas with hundreds of billions being spent and a drop out rate of near 50% if you want to get mad as a taxpayer.
ReplyDeleteThe point @ the ones in charge...our elected officials or per say self serving Public Servants
look at your legislatures and the mess they created of this situation instead of helping to fix the problem in TYC
ReplyDeleteI like how all the replies to the comment calling for "no excuses" are just excuses.
ReplyDelete10:02 they were using a thinking error! Shift the focus off of the real problem would fit the responses. Let don’t talk about TYC right now, let’s talk about all of the other problems before we talk about TYC so maybe you will forget about the topic at hand. No wonder TYC is such a mess.
ReplyDeleteDon’t forget blaming the problem on someone else. They were using multiple thinking errors!
ReplyDeleteYou can't say THINKING ERRORS in TYC - That's RESOCIALIZATION AKA the R word. Shame on you! hahaha
ReplyDeleteSeveral things contributed to the Giddings events . . . the fact that they don't have a supt. and an asst. supt. with little to no management experience who, word has it, had information that there would be a Cinco de May uprising (as there is every year),but took leave anyway. So, no supt, no asst supt, and no business manager (who is usually 3rd in charge) because he's a regional guy now . . . let's see - who does that leave in charge? The DOCS - nope, out for some conference or court or something . . . the principal???
ReplyDeleteTreatment: What treatment? The debate continues between CONnections (sounds a bit drug laden to me) and Transitional Treatment Plan (the "R" program without the umph). What defines program completion now - for sex offenders who have not gotten into specialized treatment, for CD kids (apparently CD has it's own program separate from the others), and the Capital Offender kids - where is John Huebner when you need him; he could probably provide some direction on how to do group.
Consequences - AKA; BMP/AMP - gone. Apparently, assaults are expected and as long as no one is seriously injured or maimed, these "kids being kids" will be released. The OIG isn't going to touch them; the local DAs don't want to mess with them; Staff aren't supported in their attempts to press charges . . .
Finally, we have developed what all those ignorant people have said TYC was . . . an agency for kids who were making meaningful changes has finally come to be nothing more than a school of learning; of learning new ways to victimize others; new ways to break rules and not get caught; new ways to make excuses in CO for their lack of direction, commitment, and support.
Actually, the ACA requires sanctions for major rule violations. Chip Walters and the Ombudsman are putting together the action plan for that. It should be out sometime this week.
ReplyDeleteThe main problem is that reforms were delayed for a year. Madame Pope fiddled while TYC burned.
What can you expect wnen this agency has been without a behavior management program and a treatment program.The agency has a specialist in every area but behavior management.This program was done away with and replaced with nothing.You have to teach a child how to behave before you begin treatment.Their behavior pattern has to be interrupted.
ReplyDeleteBack in the day 1970s we called it a Geronimo. Some kids gang fought, some broke state property both inmates guards and material items, some just wondered around and smoked weed. Rangers were called, county sheriff as well as the schools elite security team. Hay we were just being kids we thought, letting off some steam. The red necks in charge of us kicked our ass, got us under control, doped us up 4 times a day on malarial. Once we thought we were going to march on Austin, what a joke.
ReplyDeleteTYC has its hands tied when it comes to animal control and they are obviously to ignorant when it comes to segregating and rehabilitating. Segregating the hard ass’s from the how did I get hear and what can I do to get out. But, it’s still a great place for a kid to gain the skill sets to "get over".
Sheldon,
TYC#47333
what facility are you at where you are supposedly not doing the transitional treatment program? Are you not assessing behavior phases? If not what are you doing? maybe more importantly why not?
ReplyDelete5/10 8:21,
ReplyDeleteYou can't believe everything you read. There are many youth receiving treatment, doing well, making changes. Not all of TYC has gone to hell.
The true problem still lies at the top rank. No one in their position knows what they are supposed to be doing. There has not been any clear assignment with duties assigned in the top ranks. They are flying by the seat of their pants trying to do what seems right but it is not working for one reason or the other. Mainly budget reasons. Chip is trying his hardest to make things happen but cannot get clear understanding with his followers. Al Price is going through total hell right now due to micro-management thru Chip's law and order.
ReplyDeleteI hope that Richard will step up soon and see the real picture before things start snowballing to other campuses.
Purchasing is another big issue, Chris Burton has got things so screwed up its become plum funny! Hub this and Hub that...go back to the old way..you are not saving anybody any money!!!
You guys in CO need to take a break from the Big City and get out in the field and see how things are really done !!!!!!!!!!
Please explain;
ReplyDelete"Chip is trying his hardest to make things happen but cannot get clear understanding with his followers. Al Price is going through total hell right now due to micro-management thru Chip's law and order".
In one breath you pat him on the back and in the other you criticize!! Are you saying the leadership at Al Price is not doing their job and Chip has to manage?
Let's all be honest about Al Price, it's never been a good facility no matter who you put in place and never will. Lets give this place away and please the legislators who state they want more closures.
Wait a minute - Al Price is not in a rural setting. Quit criticizing it - we want to close the rural institutions, not the one closest to an urban area. Your criticisms of Al Price do nothing to forward that agenda. Please stop criticizing Al Price. It is the centerpiece of our new strategy of placing institutions near urban areas. Everyone knows that it is the rural red-necks who screwed up TYC. We need more institutions just like Al Price.
ReplyDeleteWe need more institutions like Al Price? ROFLMAO! Your nuts!
ReplyDelete5/21: Certainly you haven't been paying attention! Al Price is the centerpiece of the New TYC. It doesn't matter what that upstart from Florida wants. He has no real power. TYC will be what the legislature wants it to be. The rural facilities must go.
ReplyDeletenot sure what your beef is with AL Price but things seem to be going better there. You must be one of those that got fired or one that has no intentions of being part of the new program.
ReplyDeleteAl Price was one of the better facilities at one time and has gone through some turmoil but is getting back on track.
Currently AL Price does not appear to be going through any hell that MR. Walters is putting them through in fact, when he has been at the facility, he has been nothing but nice and very supportive--I see no micro management going on there
"no excuses"
ReplyDeleteexemplifies the general lack of interest-attitude in Texas towards juvenile justice issues.
There are explanations for the current problems and they include TYC administrations, the legislature, and current and previous governors.
The real problem is that TYC does not pay its employees enough money to keep and attract enough highly qualified staff (in all departments).
Read the new lately...TYC has to hire state hospital rejects.
There are numerous vacancies, in all departments, which directly impact the quantity/quality of treatment.
How can you effectively run a facility with numerous caseworker, program administrator, and psychologist vacancies?
These are the positions that drive treatment.
Why doesn't TYC pay competitive salaries to attract highly qualified staff? In the end it saves money...Significantly increase salaries and raise the level of education for juvenile corrections officers.
Because politicians need to get re-elected. They don't get re-elected based upon long-term results. Sad, but true, and certainly not just with TYC.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, voters don't like taxes, and they don't want their politicians spending their tax money on anything for which they cannot see an immediate gain. AND... the average taxpayer does not give a damn about reforming delinquent adolescents. In the popular view, they are criminals by definition because they committed criminal acts, and all they deserve is punishment.
ReplyDeletethey are being punished but need treatment. Providing intensive substantive treatment, provided by highly qualified professionals, serves to reduce recidivism. Reducing recidivism reduces crime, court cases, jail cells in counties and juvenile detention facilities. The effects can be seen quickly if implemented correctly, which includes administrative personnel who know what they are doing and field personnel who know how to implement and do it well. TYC cannot sustain a fully staffed AND highly qualified treatment workforce at the current pay scale. Thus, whatever they try to do will not succeed. It will only be futile efforts to implement "evidence based programs" which by default will not be evidenced based in TYC due to staff (caseworker}/student ratios. This has been made clear by the consultants hired to train TYC employees in the new treatment program components.
ReplyDeletei have to say more. make it more clear. research shows that providing treatment, delivered by quality staff, with intensive programs, and low staff to student ratios, serves to not only reduce recidivism, but also lengths of incarceration. WE SPEND LESS MONEY. Maybe someday someone will be able to market the idea that treating juvenile delinquents is FISCALLY CONSERVATIVE POLICY.
ReplyDeletethe other thing, people think that "treatment" is somehow soft or easy or less punitive than more "punitive" or "correctional." This is clearly ignorant.
ReplyDeleteAsk any kid in TYC if they would like to be transferred to a facility where they have NO privileges but are able to just "do their time" and don't have to participate in treatment groups and go to school, and be held accountable for their behavior, they would do anything to be able to go to that facility.
Making youth examine their lives, decisions, past behavior, current behavior, and future goals is not easy. it is difficult.
yall don't know what the fukk yall are talkkin bout but its interesting to read the things yall think about it. look reality is tyc should be shut down!! theres so much shit the public doesnt no about the facilities!! the drugs, the sex,(with female staff) i aint gay so dont get it twisted,shit staff even help with providing tattoing material, or other contraband like porno pikks for those sex offenders, amd they also provide security for permission fights. but any way if yall really want to do something about it get at me thru my e-mail chukkdogg@yahoo.com i am a witness as well as a victim of tyc crimes cause it is a crime to have sexual relations with a 16 year old male if u are already a 26 year old and older female rite?? well those are sum words from a former inmate at al price of 2007
ReplyDeleteWe did it because we were so tired of the staff power struggling because they know us at Giddibgs were all doing years for felonies and we can be transfered to prison so Giddings has a lot more structure and staff abusing power cause they see a kid who used to be a killer or robber and now is try a be good
ReplyDeleteI was there. It was fun. It was a lot more than was reported, as it always is. The spokes people of TYC (TJJD now)always make it seem as though nothing major happens, because they don't want the population to feal fear.
ReplyDeleteWe used to have a supervisor there, Mr. Degerolami (I think that's spelled right) who ran the state school very well, until his higher ups told him that he was becoming too strict. After they forced him to, practically, not punish anything, the whole place went downhill. Fights, riots, attempted escapes (which were not all REALLY attempted escapes), and overall disrespect towards staff was very common after that. Mr. D tried to expose some cover up by his higher ups (or at least that was the rumor), so they fired him. Mr. Smith, his former boss came in to replace him, and ran the school just as badly as he forced Mr. D to.
Not that Mr. Smith is all bad. He also helped relax dress codes and stupid restrictions that were in place as layovers from 2007 and before. He also helped give the kids a college program via Navarro College.
Of course, the commissioners who got fired because of there cover up years ago became the group that creates all TJJD's rules and procedures. They say stupid stuff like "the security forms on dorm 4b are on the top file drawer, but on 10a, they're on the bottom. That's inconsistent filing. We should reprimand the staff for that."
They also created the 'compliance officer,' which sounds like someone from G. Orwell's 1984, and they should be.
Well, I guess that concludes my rant for now.
I was there. It was fun, honestly, and had a purpose. The kids were tired of the staff feeling that they had to prove their power like butt-hurt policemen. They should just do it like some of the staff who've been their a while and know how to get respect: Be cool, but don't take disrespect.
ReplyDeleteIt was also a lot more than was reported, as it always is. The spokes people of TYC (TJJD now)always make it seem as though nothing major happens, because they don't want the population to feal fear.
We used to have a supervisor there, Mr. Degerolami (I think that's spelled right) who ran the state school very well, until his higher ups told him that he was becoming too strict. After they forced him to, practically, not punish anything, the whole place went downhill. Fights, riots, attempted escapes (which were not all REALLY attempted escapes), and overall disrespect towards staff was very common after that. Mr. D tried to expose some cover up by his higher ups (or at least that was the rumor), so they fired him. Mr. Smith, his former boss came in to replace him, and ran the school just as badly as he forced Mr. D to.
Not that Mr. Smith is all bad. He also helped relax dress codes and stupid restrictions that were in place as layovers from 2007 and before. He also helped give the kids a college program via Navarro College.
Of course, the commissioners who got fired because of there cover up years ago became the group that creates all TJJD's rules and procedures. They say stupid stuff like "the security forms on dorm 4b are on the top file drawer, but on 10a, they're on the bottom. That's inconsistent filing. We should reprimand the staff for that."
They also created the 'compliance officer,' which sounds like someone from G. Orwell's 1984, and they should be.
Well, I guess that concludes my rant for now.
Okay, I posted earlier starting with: I was there, it was fun. At least I guess I posted earlier. I'm posting again, before my earlier one has been okayed.
ReplyDeleteI'm seeing a lot of comments from people who really know what they're saying, and a few that think they do, not to insult anyone.
TJJD has excellent treatment programs. The amount of kids that recommit on capital and sex offences is incredibly low (something like 2%).
When I first got to Giddings, there was a lot of respect between staff and students. Near the end of my stay, they closed several state schools: the male side of Ron Jackson, Al Price, and Crockett. This moved a lot of kids to Giddings. These new kids didn't have the same kind of mindset as those of us who had been there at Giddings for a while. To us, you only fought when necessary, you gave respect to staff who didn't try to force their power, and most importantly YOU DID NOT SHOW YOUR DICK TO THE FEMALE STAFF. We believed in treating women with respect, and the people who did do it were treated like complete idiots.
When the kids from the other state schools came, suddenly it was cool to 'wang off' to the staff, as they called it. It wasn't just accepted, it was promoted. They'd have one of the crash dummies 'hit her up' first, what they call a 'grooming ritual' in sex offender treatment, and if she didn't refer him to security, then the other kids would join in (not all of us, of course).
Mr. D said that he was going to file charges against people who did that, but the board fired him before he got around to it. And it wasn't just the sex offenders who did that either, they didn't start it. The murderers and robbers didn't start it, the kids who actually had to serve time didn't start it. It was the 'general offenders,' the kids that were transferred over from other schools, that started it. They knew that at 19 (or 21 depending), they'd get out regardless, no matter what (short of repeated assault on staff charges). Others of us had sentences that lasted past when we were adults (mine lasts until I'm 32). We were the well behaved ones. All of us felt sorry for our crimes and didn't want to commit another. We did our treatment, and got out. TYC/TJJD was a lifesaver for us. TJJD should not be shut down, in my opinion. I believe it should be reformed. Bring Mr. D back! Do something, other than worry about if us kids have enough movies to watch, or what kind of cable we have. You can fight, beat a kid to bits, and get out of security the next day? There's not enough room in security for all those kids? I hear Dorm 1 is still unoccupied, what about throwing them in there? It has cells.
Okay, I have to separate this into three posts, because it was too long.
ReplyDeleteI also knew a kid who got raped, I won't say his name, but if anyone was there when I was, they'd know who I'm talking about. He reported it, it was never proven, because it happened in a cell, and there are no cameras in the cells. Open bay has been good for most of the kids. Keep open bay, also. Open bay makes it easier for the staff to supervise the dorm. The two kids who raped this guy (again, no names) both went to halfway houses and got out, and never had to do parole or probation. When they turned 19, their crime was sealed in a juvinile record. They also fought habitually, disrespected staff continuously, exposed their private parts to female staff often, and participated in almost every riot (I was there for 3, in 3 years and they were in all but the last one).
The kid who got raped never got any counseling, no sympathy from the staff. He started misbehaving (really, just disrespecting staff verbally)and then he was transferred to adult prison, where he probably still is. The two who raped him were very into gangs, bragged about their crimes, and were extremely likely to re-offend, while the kid who was raped was not in a gang, was quiet, shy, and used to cry every time he had to tell his crime in treatment, because he was so sorry he did it.
This is really just another inconsistency in justice in the TJJD, or at least at GSS.
One thing that Mr. D did on a regular basis, was have a meeting with all the students on campus (split into two groups, because the chapel can't hold all of them at once). He'd ask them how the campus could be improved. Of course some kids said 'fire so and so' or 'better food' (duh), however some of them had actual, beneficial answers, such as the buying of better shoes (the ones we used were horrible: after a week, you'd have holes; after a month, there'd be no heel at all), or the improvement of the texts we use in treatment. The texts we used (and sadly, never changed) only told us that we were bad people and that we should never re-offend, because we were worthless. The treatment itself was different, because the caseworkers are better at people skills than the Asperger's victims that wrote the books.
Then, after his meeting with the students, Mr. D would have a meeting with the staff to see what they thought.
Another problem is the high carb, low everything else diet that they serve you there. High carb diets often result in increased depression, which leads to increased kids on suicide watch (which is NEVER treated seriously or with any ounce of sympathy).
Also, the compliance officers, that I mentioned before are a rediculous installment. WHO CARES if the document on one dorm is a file behind the one in another? WHO CARES if one dorm has extra blankets in storage? WHO CARES if the shadows in the shadow board are filled in or just outlined? And if they used black or gray paint to do it with? Who cares if the tools in one vocational class are black, and the others are blue? if the LK's and the crips couldn't have cared less, then I'm sure they could've too. At least they should.
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ReplyDeleteAlso, you don't make racist &#**'s into JCO 5's, who gives one of the rapists mentioned above a bag of chips every week, while she sends white people to security for singing a hymn on Sunday. You also don't make physically incapable people the HEAD of SECURITY! That's what we call retarded. Actually, that's pretty average for GSS.
Okay, I'm getting a little excited here.
Just an off-thought of my ADHD/Asperger's brain, there's a microwave here with a sign that says 'For service or damage requests call ***-****.'
You can request damage? Awesome! JJK. I guess whoever does these posts can edit that train of thought out if they want to.
Back to the topic. TJJD is a poorly run institution, run by liars and the like. However, it has good benefits, and has helped thousands of kids, like myself, to recognize why they committed their crimes, what they can do to prevent it from happening again, how to cooperate in a setting where the guy sitting next to you has a completely different view on life. It has also helped me have victory (for the most part) over my Asperger's Disorder.
I see TJJD as a beneficial institution, just in need of a better brain, if that makes sense to anyone other than me.
Wow, Sheldon! 004****? I was a 112****. Talk about a time lapse! The kids thought I was an old school, because they were up in the 122****'s by the time I left!
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