A U.S. district judge should overturn his ruling that the Texas Youth Commission improperly terminated two longtime employees after the agency's sexual abuse scandal, a federal magistrate has ruled.See earlier Grits coverage from when federal District Judge Orlando Garcia had ruled in favor of the fired employees.
Two weeks ago, Judge Orlando Garcia of San Antonio said the TYC erred when it forced Patricia Logterman and Corinne Alvarez-Sanders to resign or be terminated in mid-2007. The judge made the decision without input from the Texas Attorney General's office, which mistakenly failed to file briefs defending the TYC.
On Wednesday, U.S. Magistrate Judge Pamela Mathy said the court should reconsider the case in light of the state's belated argument. Mathy also said the women should be denied their request for summary judgment, meaning they'll have to take the case to a full trial. Judge Garcia is expected to sign off on the order.
"We are pleased with the magistrate's recommendation," TYC spokesman Jim Hurley said. "This case will now proceed and the merits will be heard."
Thursday, April 30, 2009
Federal judge may reverse ruling on TYC firings
According to Emily Ramshaw at the Dallas News:
Do we see this kind of consideration for indigent DP defendants who "forget" to file a brief?
ReplyDeleteImagine the howl from the right wing when the AG's office asks for calendar software.
ReplyDeleteOur government at its finest. I'm not surprised a bit!
ReplyDelete8:16,
ReplyDeleteor better yet for death row appeals which arrive 15 minutes late?
Heaven forbid a judge rely upon the laws on the books, instead of taking tactical advantage of issues unrelated to the merits of a case, such as health problems of the attorneys.
ReplyDeleteGrow up anonymous!!!!
It's disappointing to see Hurley's response. He will never be accepted by the TYC regulars if he keeps taking that position. I'm disappointed if that's Cherie's position.
ReplyDeleteHurley has to justify his huge salary to Whitmire. Why should he care about being accepted by TYC employees? He knows where his bread is buttered.
ReplyDeleteIf it goes to trial, I don't see how Corinne and Pat can lose. Let the jury see the facts of how they were summarilly dismissed even though they had absolutely nothing to do with the scandal. Let the jury see how well TYC is now functioning without them and without Resocialization. Gosh, what a mess these fools have made of things!
ReplyDeleteI notice that Whitmire's home-town rag, the Chronicle, has been strangely quiet throughout all this. Could it be they don't want to publish anything that might embarrass their Senator?
Judge Garcia said a 2007 reform measure that allowed the TYC to fire any employee at will was unconstitutional, because it was applied retroactively to workers who were hired as "for cause" employees.
ReplyDeleteHow can anything filed by the AG's office affect the unconstitutionality of what TYC did? These were "for cause" employees. The "merits of the case" don't matter if TYC simply walked in and fired them without cause.
Weren't the employees fired before the bill was passed? It looks like there are two things to look at, and those are how the employees were fired before the bill passed, and if they should continue to be "for cause" employees, even after the passage of the bill. These are two related, but different issues.
ReplyDeleteIf the employees are reinstated because the firing was wrong, it still has to be decided if they will be "for cause" or "at will."
" christopher richardson said...
ReplyDeleteHeaven forbid a judge rely upon the laws on the books, instead of taking tactical advantage of issues unrelated to the merits of a case, such as health problems of the attorneys."
This the Texas AG Office not some one man law office! The AG's Office has more than one lawyer, so no lame excuses please. Just another example of the absolute incompetence of Texas Agencies. As a tax payer I am once again angered!
I am also surprised a magistrate tells a Federal Judge how to rule. I guess the Federal Judge does not know the law as well as U.S. Magistrate Judge Pamela Mathy. It will be interesting to see how the Federal Judge takes being bitch slapped by Mathy.
I think the point that the commenter is making is that the Judge who signed the original order did not take an in depth look at Corrine's attorney's motion, but merely signed the order attached to the motion since the AG failed to respond timely, due to illness of the lead AG attorney. The order should never have been considered an actual comment on the law by the Judge. The AG filed a motion to reconsider. The magistrate was assigned to take a deeper look at the law and make a recommendation.
ReplyDeleteHang in there Corinne and Pat, ya'll have a good case, you will win in the end.
ReplyDeleteMany who were properly fired from TYC are now hoping to regain some money; why not? Anyway, many deserved to be fired and need to just go away now and look elsewhere. TYC is now at its best, so be happy folks, with your firings.
ReplyDeleteWhat planet do you live on, 11:47? TYC is now at its best?? Surely you must have your tongue planted firmly in your cheek!
ReplyDeleteThis article does not tell me why the negligence of the AG is okay. Without a good justification for that, the magistrate's opinion on the validity of the AG's summary judgment argument is dicta. How does this magistrate justify the AG screwing up????
ReplyDeleteHoward A. Hickman
Don't confuse these two terminations with the batch related to criminal history.
ReplyDeleteThese two were straight up Pope retaliatory terminations.
Many of these people needed to be fired long ago. Most of you know which ones and surly agree. Don't get this mixed up with any revenge program. Please don't allow some of these misfits to retur; they were part of what brought TYC down.
ReplyDeleteneither of the two in this case had anything to do with bringing TYC down.
ReplyDeleteneither of the two in this case had anything to do with bringing TYC down.
ReplyDeleteGood ole boy's and girl's network still alive and kicking at TYC and the State Bureaucracies. Shame on the TAG’s office.
ReplyDeleteAcyually the truth be known; no one did anything wrong at TYC. It was all a misunderstanding and no youth were abused and no state money was misused, and TYC is really almost perfect.
ReplyDelete7:55,
ReplyDeleteYou are probably right, but some were wrongly terminated, and all that were hired prior to the signing of SB 103 had property interest in their jobs. Those for cause employees were stripped of their property interests in their jobs without due process. State government errored by not grandfathering in those employees that worked at TYC prior to the signing of SB103. SB103 was in part used to terminate employees that simply didn't fit in to the "TDCJ regime" at the time that was taking over TYC. Did some need to go, absolutely, but it was done wrong, and they violated the consitutional rights of those they terminated. TYC will not win this one, and unfortunately us taxpayers will be paying for the mistakes of the Governor and the Legislature. If anyone disagrees, I would really like to hear your opinions.
It is good to see that Jim Hurley likes to post here as well. It is plain to see that he posts twice in the string:
ReplyDelete"Many who were properly fired from TYC are now hoping to regain some money; why not? Anyway, many deserved to be fired and need to just go away now and look elsewhere. TYC is now at its best, so be happy folks, with your firings.
5/01/2009 11:47:00 AM
and...
Many of these people needed to be fired long ago. Most of you know which ones and surly agree. Don't get this mixed up with any revenge program. Please don't allow some of these misfits to retur; they were part of what brought TYC down.
5/01/2009 07:55:00 PM
Just a question for someone that might know: Does it make a difference that TYC had been placed under 'Conservatorship' at the time of the firings? It seems that all 'rules' are suspended when an agency is placed under Conservatorship.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. Those fired are out of luck. The governor knew what he was doing.
ReplyDeleteYou are correct. Those fired are out of luck. The governor knew what he was doing. Tough, but get along now.
ReplyDeleteNot so fast boys! Conservatorship guarantees only those directly responsible for the Conservatorship may be fired under the Administrative Code in force at the time. Also the Governor does not trump the US and Texas Constitutions or the Texas Administrative Code. Retroactive laws are not allow either. This is a rights violation case and it is clear cut on its face. All of the employees fired should have been grandfathered, even the ones who were honest about their criminal record at the time they were hired. Each one of them held a property interest in their jobs. Once again we are a nation of law and order. We don't follow the law when it is pleases someone, we follow it in all cases. There are many who would like to wish this case away but that is not going to happen. It does not matter what TYC, the Governor's little helpers, or the AG's Office tries to spin up on this blog they are in trouble. Typical politicians and political operatives doing their best to twist the truth. It would be refreshing to see some people take responsibility and admit they were wrong. No doubt they will blame the victims for all of their unlawful operation. TYC was always very good at blaming the victim or employee who tried to bring out wrong doing. They used character assassination and the false setup to get rid of the trouble makers who tried to do the right thing for the youth.
ReplyDeleteWhoever said TYC was good now is most likely a TYC spin doctor. No programs, heavy cuts in case managers, and psychologist tells it all. After talking to some of the case managers at the Mart Unit of TYC I learned they are doing the job of 3 to 4 people which means the delivery of service in pure crap these days. I know Mr. Hurley would never misrepresent the facts....... I understand he was salesman of the month several months out of the year at the tote the note used car lot where he worked before state employment.
Still no convictions or additional arrests in the TYC sex scandal and cover-up. Protect the guilty and punish the innocent is the TYC way. How about an update on the criminal prosecution Mr. Hurley? I am sure there are many of Grit's readers who would like to know where the wheels of justice are on the current cases. Also it would be nice to hear your version of how decreasing mental health staff while holding the correctional staff up best you can is not turning TYC into nothing more than a juvenile prison system similar to TDCJ.
Turning TYC into a juvenile TDCJ is exactly the point. Don't you get it? This has been Whitmire's agenda for years. The pedaphiles at WTSS and the malfeasance of some top administrators only served to give him the excuse to do what he has intended all along. If you doubt that statement, go back and review the archives of the Senate hearings in 2003 and 2005. Hurley and that guy at the Statesman are his shills.
ReplyDeleteThis case is about whether Corinne and Pat were treated fairly. Simple, no matter what you think of them or of TYC, they were not treated fairly, or in accordance with the law. Simple. Spin that Mr. Hurley.
Thank you, Howard. It seems like a lot of things "slip" through the AG's office -- knowledge of the Pyote scandal for one. I just really can't see what bearing the AG's failure to file their briefs has on this case. The bottom line is that these two women were unconstitutionally fired and I cannot see how TYC can justify their actions in this.
ReplyDeleteGrits what can you tell us about the next plan of action in the Lege for TYC, The house had action on the bill today (Saturday May 2), but I am confused by what happens next... and when we will all know what's going on.
ReplyDelete09:37 said:
ReplyDeleteStill no convictions or additional arrests in the TYC sex scandal and cover-up.
How about an update on the criminal prosecution Mr. Hurley?
Yes, how about an update from anyone who has that information. Who dropped this case? Was it the AGs office, TYC or locals? That's the big story. Maybe Mike Ward can find out and tell us.
After all the good things that we have done for you employees, I am amazed that many of you still complain and continue to disrupt our chosen and proven system of youth care. We have improved TYC with many necessary, hard, yet necessary changes. I need your support to complete our goal of re-sizing and further improving our services to youth and the public. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteTroll Alert ! ! !
ReplyDelete9:37, don't you usually sign your posts?
ReplyDeleteXTYC
12:55pm said "I need your support to complete our goal of re-sizing and further improving our services to youth and the public. Thanks."
ReplyDeleteWhy not sign your name if you're asking your staff to support you? Signing as "Anonymous" gives the perception that you're trying to intimidate them to stop posting their comments or complaints because "we" are watching.
You said "After all the good things that we have done for you employees, I am amazed that many of you still complain and continue to disrupt our chosen and proven system of youth care." Proven system of care? Proven to who? Obviously your staff hasn't bought into it so how has it been proven? Why not address their concerns that they're posting instead of being amazed. I can be amazed because I don't supervise them, but you should be "concerned" that you don't have staff buy-in of you're "chosen system of care". That's a management issue that you need to address and it's called "team building".
I am not one of your employees; however, maybe you'd gain more respect from your staff if you stopped asking for "their" support and starting showing them that they have "your" support. They (some) obviously don't feel it. Trust goes both ways but it seems that you've either lost theirs or never earned it in the first place.
Remember, with all of the responsibilities that TYC has, management needs their staff a lot more than the staff needs you. Staff can make or break an administration (review the last 5 yrs of TYC administrations). The faces always change in CO but stay the same where the real work occurs - with the kids.
Attitude reflects leadership.
Please, 7:04. 12:55 is a cynical troll, not a TYC administrator. You must be new here.
ReplyDeleteXTYC
No one here denies abuse happened in TYC. I am not sure why anyone is surprised. Show me a prison where abuse doesn't happen. That is the unfortunate nature of the beast.
ReplyDeleteBut back on post or at least closer. The agency continues to shoot itself in the foot with hiring and retaining professional field staff.
Each case at TYC needs to be handled on a individual basis. Many people were wrongfully terminated and many who needed to be terminated are still there. Those who were fired because they had records and served their time really have a good argument. That was collateral punishment for them. I thought many of you were all for giving people with records who had done their time a chance.
ReplyDeleteTYC has good and bad just like every other place does. They also still have a good old boy system in place. Tell me a place that doesn't. TDCJ is awful. You can find many of the their lawsuits online. Why can't anybody just be reasonable? Why do you have to call each other trolls and all that silly business?
12:59, the goodest of the "old boys" is Jay Kimbrough. He's responsible for the felons being fired. Like so much of what he has done over the years to more than one state agency, that wasn't meant to be constructive. It was meant to make a splash and fool the public into thinking something was being fixed. All he really knows how to do is break things. Kimbrough is now the Governor's Chief of Staff. Everyone remember that when election day comes. If we lose Perry, we lose Kimbrough. That would be a great thing for the great state of Texas.
ReplyDeleteXTYC
Part of TYC's biggest problems, has been the so called 'professionals', that leads the agency. The JCOs are the real back bone and many professionals just get in the way with proper management of youth. Perhaps the Austin elites have finally realized this and are helping professionals to find their way to the exit doors.
ReplyDeleteI have said this before, what a great time for the hard core juvenile delinquents in Texas to be incarnated in tyc. Management needing buy in for faulty programs. Disgruntle staff on the dorms. What a great time to be an inmate in tyc.
ReplyDeleteYou people don’t forget who’s running your units, they sleep in your dorms, no I’m not talking about your role model jco’s. Keep on fighting amongst yourselves, let central office keep their head in the psychological juvenile delinquent program clouds and the politicians laps, let the AG keep their heads in the kitty litter, it’s all good for the kids, helps them build their skill sets in manipulation therapy. You know the program tyc has run since before the name change to tyc.
There is nothing new under the sun with managing the state of Texas’ most hard core juvenile delinquents.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Why isn't any information been given on the resignation of Marty Martin,Director of Training TYC? Hang in there Pat and Corrine.
ReplyDeleteYeh, they ran off Robert Holder also. They can make the job so difficult that even the most devoted will throw in the towel. Way to go Stan and the others responsible for the downfall of TYC. WHY are so many positions open at Giddings? It tells the whole story. How about Rios from El Paso and Martinez from Edinburg...they all got the axe.
ReplyDeleteMartinez just could not handle the job. Rios was burned out and Holder finally had enough, also. And, you wonder where TYC is going? DOWN.
ReplyDeleteMartinez knew better than to continue handling that job. He let go before he got handled.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many open positions at Giddings because they don't pay people enough money to keep them there. Morale is low, pay is low, caseloads are high and rising.
Speaking of Jay Kimbrough, he was out on his Harley Davidson motorcycle the other night in Austin. He was spotted at one of the local leather bars where the other biker boys hang out wearing their cow skin outfits. I guess they go there and brag about their Harleys. They must have one of those mechanical bulls because the guy that was telling me about it said something about Kimbrough riding bare back. I thought Kimbrough was supposed to be Mr. Clean and here he is frequenting a beer joint doing God knows what!
ReplyDeleteI did not post at 10:52, because I stay away from rumor and don't care about Kimbrough's personal life. But copy and paste this link into your internet browser for a handy timeline on Mr. Kimbrough's work for Governor Perry. See how much taxpayer money Kimbrough has received and reasons he was not a good choice as TYC's conservator. Kimbrough was possibly in a position to see that the alleged perpetrators at Pyote were turned in as early as 2005. Who knows why he didn't, but I think he and Perry have been protecting each other by persecuting others who are not culpable. And as always, follow the money. By now, Kimbrough is into the taxpayers of Texas for well over a million dollars.
ReplyDeletehttp://capitolannex.com/2007/03/28/tyc-scandal-why-jay-kimbrough-is-the-wrong-person-for-the-conservators-job/
XTYC
I wonder if Kimbrough is going to get red and blue lights on the cycle of his?
ReplyDeleteThe bell tolls and the AG needs to settle with the employees that were wrongfully terminated.
ReplyDeleteMore to come...
ReplyDeleteDo tell...
ReplyDelete