No MSM coverage yet, but here's the money quote from a ruling Monday by federal district Judge Orlando Garcia in San Antonio related to Texas Youth Commission employees who were fired in Spring 2007:
It is further ORDERED and DECLARED that Section 37 of Senate Bill 103, codified in Texas Human Resources Code Sec. 61.035 (Vernon Supp. 2008), that attempted to remove the "for cause" status of Texas Youth Commission employees before the effective date of Senate Bill 103, is unlawful pursuant to provisions of the Constitution of the State of Texas and the United States of America.The section of the bill Judge Garcia said was unconstitutional removed language that said employees could be fired "for cause" and substituted "at will" employment, including retrospectively.
It will be two years next month that dozens of employees at TYC were let go under the same provisions as the two plaintiffs in this court case, so there's still a window when more litigation may be filed now that this precedent has been set.
UPDATE: My first attempt to upload the pdf files to the web didn't work, so let's try this: Go here to download the judge's ruling and here for the plaintiffs' petition he granted. See if that works. Best I can do, apparently.
MORE: See initial coverage from the Dallas News.
Is my information correct when I say there were no reps or senators who voted no and that all voted yes concerning the passage of the bill?
ReplyDeleteDoes this open the door to those employees that were fired after the signing of SB103 that worked for TYC prior to the signing of SB103?
ReplyDeleteDo current employees that had their "for cause" status stripped from them by SB103 get it back or do they remain "at will" employees?
What about the felons that were fired?
Does Cherie have a migraine?
Shouldn't the AG and TYC settle this case quickly in hopes that nobody files before the statue of limitations runs out?
This sure does raise alot of questions.
Howard? Grits? Gritters? Any answers?
"unable to open docs", is what I get when I try the links to the Order and Motions.
ReplyDelete-----------
"Unconstitutional"? HOW? What provision of State and Federal Constitution has been violated?
Damn, Informed, I hoped that would work. I'll try to upgrade the links ASAP. What I've got are pdf docs.
ReplyDeleteInformed,
ReplyDeleteThat would be DUE PROCESS!
It's been my experience with government entities that they quite often make up the rules as they go along, or even manage to get unconstituional legislation sponsored. Let that be a lesson for all who watched this. Just because they are a government entity doesn't mean they are bullet-proof. If they do something wrong, go after them.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 4/15/2009 07:38:00 AM said:
ReplyDelete"Shouldn't the AG and TYC settle this case quickly in hopes that nobody files before the statue of limitations runs out?"
What they should do and what they will do are most likely two different things. It has been my personal experience that because government entities fight lawsuits with taxpayer money, they will go down swinging no matter how wrong they are. It's not THEIR money, so they don't care how big of a legal bill they run up in attorneys' fees, court costs, and damages they will have to pay.
Of course, violations of federal civil rights often allow for the individual themselves to be sued. But, they won't see it that way. I have sued government entities twice in my life, and both times they fought way beyond the point where they could have settled with me for a reasonable amount of money. Instead, they hung on and paid out big.
What? The Lege did something unconstitutional? And Perry signed it? I'm shocked! Shocked!
ReplyDeleteGrits said:
ReplyDelete"It will be two years next month that dozens of employees at TYC were let go under the same provisions as the two plaintiffs in this court case, so there's still a window when more litigation may be filed now that this precedent has been set."
Actually, that window may be much bigger than that. There is usually allowance in the statutes of limitiations that allow you a reasonable time to act once you discover that the opposing party violated the law. The clock may have only started to run once this ruling was made.
I am not a lawyer but have had some dealings with this issue. Hopefully Howard will jump in soon and correct me where I may be off base
ReplyDelete7:38 - if this ruling stands then yes, it should mean that people who were employees of TYC prior to the effective date of SB103, and still employed, should again have their "for cause" status.
And, those people employed prior to the effective date of SB103 who were terminated after this date and treated like "at will" employees (i.e. not provided the proper due process required for termination of a "for cause" employee) were treated improperly and may have a legal cause of action.
Informed citizen - my understanding is that "for cause" employment means you have a "property interest" in your job. The government cannot take a citizen's property (i.e. remove or demote you from your "for cause' government job) without a fairly high level of due process (such as opportunities to challenge, appeal, have a hearing, etc.). TYC changed their policies and cut a lot of this due process as soon as SB103 became effective. Apparently doing this was not legal.
Howard or any other attorneys out there - can you tell us what is considered the minimum due process that would be considered sufficient for the government to terminate a "for cause" employee? That might help people recognize if and how their due process might have been violated.
I just deleted an off topic rant. Stay on topic, please.
ReplyDeleteWhen all of this happened a couple of years ago we lost a lot of key people that improved the culture of our campus. Regardless of these peoples past they brought alot to the table in regards to corrections and treatment. Im not real sure but I have to lean towards if some of these people where still around some, not all, of the campus' who are struggling right now as we speak would be better off. There is always going to be an element of negative employees that NEED to go. And thank god some of those are now gone. But certain ones that we lost, and we are still suffering for those losses, where a valuable asset that have been lost due to poor decision making.
ReplyDeleteFor so long GNS was at the top of the heep when it came to a good facility, with good employees, doing exactly what the tax payers of texas flip the bill for. Now GNS is at a breaking point. During my time with TYC our S.T.A.R. team was sent to help countless facilities numerous times. Well what we have aided everyone with for so long is now at our door step. Leadership on campus is a joke. The treatment program that has been embraced has so far been a bust. JCO VI's are dropping like flies (4 so far). Staff are simply beaten down with no where to go. GNS is one major incident away from falling apart. The signs have been building for quite sometime but particularly the past week. Not a day goes buy that at least one staff has been injured. The campus is lost with no direction to go in except apply band aids where needed. Current leadership covers up these facts and puts on a great face for you guys but in all honesty its worse now than it ever has been. It seems as though the only way current leadership knows how to motivate and aid their employees is through intimidation, threats, and diverting the attention (blaming) away from them and onto people who don't have the voice to do anything. Right now students run GNS, not staff.
I hope that help is on the way and that some of these people that lost their CAREERS two years ago are not only doing better in their lives but have moved on to something that improves their quality of life......not destroys it.
Howard or any other attorneys out there - can you tell us what is considered the minimum due process that would be considered sufficient for the government to terminate a "for cause" employee? That might help people recognize if and how their due process might have been violated.The basics of procedural due process are that you are entitled to two things: notice and a hearing. You are entitled to know what the grounds are for your termination, and a fair hearing where you have the opportunity to present your side. Normally, this also means that you are entitled to have a lawyer represent you, if you choose. And to be clear, by "entitled," I don't mean that the government has to pay for you to have a lawyer, just that, if you have one who will do it for you, they can't prohibit you from having your lawyer assist you or advocate for you in your hearing.
ReplyDelete123txpublicdefender123,
ReplyDeleteShould you also be given the opportunity to cross examine witnesses, present witnesses on your behalf, and the other things that would go along with a "hearing"?
Informed said,
ReplyDelete"Unconstitutional"? HOW? What provision of State and Federal Constitution has been violated?
It is a violation of the Constitution to enact an ex post facto law.
It is entirely appropriate for the judge to make this ruling. Public employees have rights, which should not be infringed based on the political winds and political expediency.
TPD123:
Do you mean that you're shocked!?
Due Process was violated by not following current TYC Policy in the hearings. Retroactive rules changes that take a for cause employee's employment (property under the law) violated both the Federal and Texas Constitutions. Passing legislation to cover a past act does not pass muster with the law of the land. Because employment at TYC was in fact property based on prior TYC Policy, policy or laws cannot be passed to breach prior contract or ownership. It is a violation of civil rights more so under the Texas Constitution. Because this is a violation of civil rights case now, new options are open and state limits of liability may not attach. Point of discovery can extend filing deadlines in legal cases.
ReplyDeleteThere are other law suits pending arguing the same issues before various courts in this matter. Any negative life situations related to unlawful termination by TYC during this period could be cause for damages. Loss of medical coverage and income are only the first loss that comes to mind. Mental breakdown or need for counseling could be another cause since TYC recognized employees were eligible for free mental health counseling, thus admitting this possible result. If you are going to play then you need to be ready to pay! Your tax dollars at work fellow Texans. No doubt the AG's office will fight this to the end and run the bill up by 3 to 4 X.
President Obama, the entitlement management at tyc has created the need for a bail out, can you please help them?
ReplyDeleteCan current emplyees sue for stress related to this ongoing matter? It has been bad!
ReplyDeleteMight this also apply to employees who lost their positions due to a reduction in force (rif)?
ReplyDeleteDirty Harry at 8:09
ReplyDeleteThe only exception I know of regarding the fighting a bogus case until the last taxpayer dollar also involved TYC: When then AG Hill noted the conditions at Mountain View as well as the lack of treatment etc, he went to the plaintiffs and Judge Justice and asked for the opportunity to work on a reasonable settlement. The result was Morales v Turman, 13 years of fact-finding and a budget going from about $4million to $256m. Clearly, not all got fixed, including the good ol' boy network, but the changes that did occur included the first attempts at requiring a reason for a kid to go into TYC and treatment versus just punishment being the intent. Even 25 + years after meeting both Justice and Hill, I remain in awe of both as exemplary examples of public servants, something we are sorely in need of in leadership and legislative positions.
ouch...left off another important name in that Morales situation: Neal Nichols was working with Dallas Legal Aid, the legal force acting for Ms. Morales; Ron Jackson was so impressed with his work, he hired him to become TYC's General Counsel; his personal integrity and easy accessibility were among the reasons I returned to TYC after nearly a decade hiatus. I knew it was time to go when Whitmire abused him during those early hearings.
ReplyDeleteLet me clarify the judgment. We are talking about employees who were terminated before SB 103 took effect. The effect of SB 103 is not addressed in the order or employees terminated after SB 103 took effect. The order is saying employees such as Corinne and Pat were denied their property interest in their jobs. I believe the court is saying that you can not change the rules of the game when a statute says you can only be terminated for cause. What the order means as to any relief or monetary damages has yet to be addressed.
ReplyDeleteHoward A. Hickman
Howard, I think that employees that were suspended prior to the signing of SB103, and were subsequently terminated after the signing of SB103, and were not given a hearing may also have a case. What do you think?
ReplyDeleteI read the order, and it looks like TYC is in some deep crap. The saga continues, how much money will Texas have to shell out because of this screw up by the Governor's right hand man, Jay Kimbrough? If I recall correctly, when someone warned him of this very thing, he said something to the effect of will just let the lawyers handle it and and make the monetary settlements as they come. Well, here they come!
ReplyDeleteWhen will the relief or monetary damages be addressed? It appears that the taxpayers of Texas will probably be out some serious money because of this ruling. Will Ms. Pope have to pay anything out of her pocket or is she protected by some state statute? It seems to me that she should have asked a few questions of the tenured legal counsel of TYC before starting her reign of terror.
ReplyDeleteDallas Morning News has it posted and quotes Hurley as defending the firings. And I thought he had realized Kimbrough and Pope were more of a problem than a solution. Is he still one of them???
ReplyDeleteThe Dallas Morning News covered the story:
ReplyDelete"A federal judge’s ruling that the Texas Youth Commission improperly terminated two longtime employees could have implications for more than a hundred workers fired in the aftermath of the agency’s sexual abuse scandal, and many others still employed there.
San Antonio District Judge Orlando Garcia said the TYC erred when it forced Patricia Logterman and Corinne Alvarez-Sanders to resign or be terminated in mid-2007. The women, administrators who worked in the TYC's Austin headquarters, were swept out as part of an agency house-cleaning. A pending trial will determine if they win damages or their jobs back.
Judge Garcia also said a 2007 reform measure that allowed the TYC to fire any employee at will was unconstitutional, because it was applied retroactively to workers who were hired as "for cause" employees.
A Dallas Morning News review of TYC personnel records shows at least 150 people were fired in the months immediately after the abuse scandal broke – 40 of whom resigned in lieu of being terminated. Hundreds of others left the agency, but it’s unclear whether they were fired or left voluntarily.
"I’m just realizing how monumental this ruling is, what a tremendous bearing it has on our case," said Alvarez-Sanders, describing the humiliation she felt over her surprise termination after 14 years with the TYC. "I’m excited to be vindicated."
TYC officials said they can’t comment on the case because the agency still has motions before the judge. But they said the personnel actions taken in 2007 were to "correct the mismanagement" that sent the agency into crisis, and led to the abuse scandal.
"Difficult decisions were made in an effort to strengthen the agency, improve its leadership, and make it more responsive to the expectations of our state’s leadership and Texas taxpayers," spokesman Jim Hurley said.
In the months after media outlets reported widespread sexual and physical abuse inside youth lock-ups, state leaders struggled to take control of the situation. Lawmakers demanded a culture shift. Gov. Rick Perry appointed then-Conservator Jay Kimbrough to lead an agency shake-up.
Kimbrough started by ordering that TYC employees with felony convictions be fired, though many of them had been hired by managers who knew about the criminal records. By April 2007, newly appointed agency officials had forced high-level bureaucrats to resign or be fired, at one point terminating four people with 50 years in combined experience.
At the time, Senate Criminal Justice Committee Chairman John Whitmire, D-Houston, called the terminations a "positive step," and said, "this whole agency needs to be scrubbed."
Two months later, Perry signed into law a TYC reform bill that gave the agency the right to fire any employee at will. Until that point, agency employees could only be fired for cause – meaning they received due process, or notice and an appeals hearing.
Judge Garcia’s order indicates that workers hired as "for cause" before the agency reform bill passed can no longer be fired at will. Opponents of this "at will" firing system say the order raises serious questions about whether "for cause" employees were fired without due process in the months immediately following the abuse scandal.
Mike Gross, vice president of the Texas State Employees Union, said many dedicated, long-tenured TYC employees with great track records were fired with little or no recourse, in a way that was "grossly unfair and unjust." Though many terminations were deemed "resignations" by the agency, Gross said in reality they weren't voluntary. Employees were forced to quit or be fired.
Hurley, the TYC spokesman, said all employees fired by the agency were given termination hearings, as required by policy. Those who resigned didn't have termination hearings.
"TYC is going to have to reevaluate its employment relationship with probably hundreds of workers," said Dan Hargrove, an attorney for Logterman and Alvarez-Sanders. "If employees were forced to resign, they’re entitled to their job back with the state of Texas."
According to the story those hired before the bill went into effect can not be fired at will.
I think anyone earning a settlement ought to donate a portion to this blog site which has kept us very well informed. Thank you GFB.
ReplyDeleteI'm still a little confused on one issue: I was employed and signed on as a "for cause" employee. Does that mean I remain a "for cause employee," like a grandfather clause or am I "at will" still? The reason I ask is that I was employed many moons ago and got what we called then as "benefit replacement pay" and I still get that despite the law change in 1994(?). They said back then I was "grandfathered in." So anyone who can answer that with knowledge, I'd appreciate your comments.
In either case, I'm happy for some employees who didn't deserve to be let go and served this agency well for many years... Neil, Emily (I actually miss her the most even though she gave me the most grief, and a lot of it - but taught me well), Corrine, Pat, Don, Linda... their leadership is sorely missed. Those were some great minds.
But I still say, none of this would have happened if our former executive director hadn't folded under pressure, and resigned. Folks, I know some still admire him, and to some extent I still have a lot of respect, but that's the truth.
Finally, to John Whitemire:
John Whitmire, you said "I want heads to roll," pounded your fist, and they did. You also said "let the lawyers figure it out." They did. I have both your comments regarding this burned on a CD. I also have the former executive director of TYC making mention in a public hearing of what occurred at the WTSS where you clearly replied "brief us later." We did.
Knowing your history, you'll somehow point at others. For once in your life, admit you were wrong and I promise to change my name. Until then, I shall forever be your foe.
Whitmire and Kimbrough said "let the lawyers sort it out and go ahead and fire them all". Looks like lawyer sorting out time has arrived. How did these two guys pass the Bar Exam? Could these two lawyers be sanctioned for violating the civil rights of the many people fired. Being a civil rights violations, does this open Kimbrough and Whitmire up to paying damages? Oh I forgot, it is tax payer money so who cares! It is not like it is coming out of their pockets. They did grab some great headlines at the time though. The sound bite was priceless, literally!
ReplyDeleteThank you for posting that article. I have my answer. We posted pretty close at the same time. Thanks again.
ReplyDeleteAny bets if Mike Ward will write an article about it?
ReplyDeleteDo you buy the Statesman? I don't. I can't believe ANYTHING that comes out of that paper - mainly because of Mike Ward.
ReplyDeleteThe Dallas Morning News has far more credible reporting. Ward's in Whitmires back pocket feeling the warmth of the diarrhea emulating from this San Antonio news... would you want to touch that paper?
Hell no. Go to Dallasnews.com or chron.com to get your news. Mike Ward has issues, and so does the Statesman.
"If employees were forced to resign, they’re entitled to their job back with the state of Texas."
ReplyDeleteWould Corinne or Pat even want their jobs back? We could sure use them, but I can't imagine that's something either of them would consider, at this point.
This will go deep into the pockets of Texans.
ReplyDeleteWe shall build a documentary of ole "WHIT" with his write the law as you go attitude and run over his re-election for the people of Texas.
Ready Whisfoe?
Wow the poor little 120 year old agency managing our state’s prison preparatory school has sure mismanaged itself, with the help of our elected officials, into a real mess this time. Sounds like many former tyc employees who were “raped by the state” will be returning the favor.
ReplyDeletePerhaps I’m judging unfavorable why would such an agency like tyc have disgruntle employees let alone disgruntle ex employees. I suppose my previous recommendations for tyc to reinstitute vocations such as agribusiness, building trades, grounds keeping, and sewing, ie clothing production, to reduce operational expense would only be a drop in the bucket to bail out our poor little agency. Perhaps we should all feel empathetic for tyc mismanagement like we would feel empathetic towards a invalid who just can’t help craping on themselves. And I guess there goes any money for a CRM system to help keep the poor little agency in line with their dynamically changing business processes. Sad day for the tax payers of this great state of Texas.
OK here is a new recommendation from your favorite state boy.
Colonel Sanders the tyc agency, just flush the whole dirty, filthy, rotten, perverted, retched, stinking thing down the drain and be done with it, preferably before any deadlines. Go back to the original 1850’s plan for youthful offenders and have the department of corrections turn one of their units, like Clemens in Brazoria county or one more centrally located, into a youth facility for the worst of the worst. Then give the remaining budget dollars to the local county probation departments who still have a fighting chance to actually save the lives of some of our teenagers. This would accomplish the original goal of separately housing child felons from adult felons while managing operations under a relatively better suited system. Local county PO’s are much better suited today than 100 years ago at managing referrals to the state juvenile facility. Things got out of hand in the early stages when people thought they could just drop a kid off at Gatesville or Gainesville and Crocket without due process. Throughout the agency’s years of abuse, mismanagement, and faulty legislation we get what we got today. Most of the bloggers here know the history of this failed agency, the expense of the continued fronts its attempted to maintained for its legitimacy over its historical periods of foolishness. MvT wasn’t enough? When will enough is enough!
We just need the right people that could railroad this through the politico process and make this a reality by summer. Just think of those kids some of you tyc people talk about on this blog, the worst of the worst, who play the exabitionest in your little tyc group therapy and your little tyc classrooms, working in the fields down in Brazoria county this summer. That should motivate you to parole as many as you can, send the rest on down for summer camp in Brazoria county. Then sell off your facility’s to pay your debt for your folly.
Right off the bat, here are two issues I see with this recommendation, its way to logical for a state agency like tyc let alone our legislators to buy into. The biggest problem is it just may turn the lives of more of our teenagers around. It could be more of a deterrent to kids from going and those that would go wouldn’t want to go back. Therefore it goes against today’s tyc underlying agenda of cultivating and feeding the prison business. The second issue with this recommendation is there is the reduced waste of tax payers money. That is not going to fly with an agency like tyc let alone elected officials. Besides the governor would veto anything logical and doesn’t waste money.
I keep forgetting to sign my work
ReplyDeleteSheldon tyc#47333 II C/S
BTW I hope you guys prevent what seems to be a selfserving Whitmire from re-election. Good Luck tyc in your new line of work.
whitsfoe-
ReplyDeleteto answer your question I would assert that you in fact are grandfathered into your for cause statuts and that only employees who were hired after the sb passed would be at will. Hopes this helps.
FYI
ReplyDeleteBlu Nickolson has a similar suit pending in the Eastern District of Texas. Is anyone else aware of any other lawsuits?
Don't forget Jay Kimbrough changed policy and fired people who had nothing to do with the purpose of the Conservatorship of TYC. This was illegal under the law when it occurred. Also don't forget Jay Kimbrough changed the due process hearing system for TYC. He cut the time to file an objection to your wrongful termination from 10 down to 3 days. It was labeled the Fast Track System which is another way of saying we are going to further violate your due process rights. The fast track was only for the employees with prior criminal records. Treating one class of employees differently than all of the rest of your employees is illegal and attorney Jay Kimbrough knew it. Jay Kimbrough violated the law at every opportunity when it served his goals. I can only think Jay Kimbrough is a common criminal and he is totally responsible for this entire mess which the taxpayers will pay dearly for.
ReplyDeleteSomeone needs to call Bill Fitzgerald in Bexar.... he did the same thing and took away the employees just cause.
ReplyDeleteGrits...this ruling should bring back Paul K. from Bexar Adult Probation.
Paul was under good cause but was fired on at will.
It's encouraging news to find out that there is still some justice in the world and that there is at leat one judge who believes in due process of the law. Our elected representatives who supported 103 need to be held accountable their folly. Their reckless decision harmed many lives that day. Those staff were escorted out of the building in front of the kids. One of TYC's major goals was to teach the kids that there was hope after incarceration and that they could go on and be successful with a clean slate. What a way to show support, not to mention the humiliation and dejection felt by the staff. They do nothing but screw things up as far as I can see.
ReplyDelete4/16; 4:44 p.m. Amen, goes to show that what comes around goes around.
ReplyDeleteSorry, I meant what goes around comes around. My oops!
ReplyDeleteYou guys should have seen the high fives in CO today. This is one lawsuit that many secretly wanted to lose for our friends who were done wrong. You see, the decision to terminate or force people to resign were made by the occupiers, not TYC. I hope each and every one of you people who were wrongfully terminated get the maximum for the BS you endured.
ReplyDeleteThanks to Corrine and Pat, many of us have our "for cause" status restored. A BIG THANK YOU TO PAT, CORRINE, NEIL AND KAREN (HR) FOR EXHIBITS A,B,C, AND D. I READ IT ALL AND LOVED IT.
I haven't felt that good since one of my colleagues sent an e-mail with the Wizard of Oz song "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" that was sent to several of us the day Nedlekoff fired Pope. We all played that song all day in CO - I'll never forget that day! Now, we need a theme song for this situation! Queen's "We will rock you" comes to mind.
To 4/16 @5:20 a.m.
ReplyDeleteI'm more than ready. It's pretty sad when you watch a Prima Donna like John Whitmire get elected time and time again.
This guy has been investigated by the FBI and others, but since that's not "on-topic," I can't go there on this string. I respect the rules, unlike Elmer who obviously doesn't understand the law and needs a Federal Judge to pull the reins on he and his cohorts regarding SB103 as it relates to employment laws in Texas.
And I'm not being partisan. I'm being real. With that, I'll say I am just as disgusted with Rick Perry and believe change is needed. If you agree, vote. If not, vote.
JUST VOTE.
And TYC employees, get involved in a UNION, esp. you JCO's. I believe our host made that suggestion two years ago - and I can see why now. I spoke with a union leader recently (for autos) and I was amazed at their strength. It was good advise then, and it is now.
Are Corinne and Pat suing Pope and Kimbrough personally? Wouldn't that be sweet!
ReplyDeleteWhitsfoe.....send the union business to the Steelworkers. They have spent over $150,000 in Bexar on Adult Probation lawsuits. The Bexar Probation Director is a cad and has 6 lawsuits pending and is getting more soon.
ReplyDeleteUntil us little people join ranks we will continue to have politicians take rights away from us.
Congrats to the two TYC employees!
Hope you get the max you can have.
Whitsfoe.....send the union business to the Steelworkers. They have spent over $150,000 in Bexar on Adult Probation lawsuits. The Bexar Probation Director is a cad and has 6 lawsuits pending and is getting more soon.
ReplyDeleteUntil us little people join ranks we will continue to have politicians take rights away from us.
Congrats to the two TYC employees!
Hope you get the max you can have.
Whitsfoe.....send the union business to the Steelworkers. They have spent over $150,000 in Bexar on Adult Probation lawsuits. The Bexar Probation Director is a cad and has 6 lawsuits pending and is getting more soon.
ReplyDeleteUntil us little people join ranks we will continue to have politicians take rights away from us.
Congrats to the two TYC employees!
Hope you get the max you can have.
Whitsfoe.....send the union business to the Steelworkers. They have spent over $150,000 in Bexar on Adult Probation lawsuits. The Bexar Probation Director is a cad and has 6 lawsuits pending and is getting more soon.
ReplyDeleteUntil us little people join ranks we will continue to have politicians take rights away from us.
Congrats to the two TYC employees!
Hope you get the max you can have.
If what is being said here is true, then should not the incompetents promoted by TYC's "Axis of Evil" be scrutiized and dealt with apropriately?
ReplyDeleteAnd Jesus looked out over the masses, smiled and said, "A white woman with a Phd shall lead my people out of bondage."
The Jesus reference is a little over the top. If I know Corinne, she is probably thankful her attorney is intellgent and brave enough to take on big government.
ReplyDeleteTO: 4/17/2009 11:10:00 AM
ReplyDeleteI am thankful to God above all. Our attorneys are good ethical professionals and yes, I am thankful to them both and to all of you who remain in TYC, working still to do the mission of rehabilitating our youth. You are fondly remembered. Thank you to all of you who remain committed to the mission. You are in my prayers. I will not be blogging again, but I do appreciate all of you. Thank you for the calls, emails and kind words--you all mean alot to me.
Corinne Alvarez-Sanders
Good luck w/ the lawsuits, for those who were fired illegally. However, there were also many who were let go, fired, forced to resign, etc,. that badly needed to leave TYC. I know many whose leaving will greatly benefit the agency. Too bad some good staf were also caught up in the giant mess, created by their own monstor.
ReplyDeleteThere were many of us who were wrongfully terminated and not involved in any of the crap that lead to conservatorship. Not all of us got termination hearings as stated by Jim Hurley. I was fast illegally tracked out.Jim Hurley either lies or is misinformed. It's sad, sad, sad either way.
ReplyDeleteMake that illegally fast tracked. Pardon the typo.
ReplyDeleteThank you Lord, Corinne, your legal counsel and our justice system. Patience is a virtue. So if you are one of those exemplary tenure staff that was fired for no cause with no recourse after the "hearing"; What is the next step? Those staff with problems in the past were monumental in their ability to help the troubled youth understand that their lives could be turned around. They were the living examples of rehabilitation and that it does work. Each was discarded without any consideration of their TYC employment history prior to SB103.
ReplyDeleteCongrats to Corinne and Pat! We sure could use you two back!
ReplyDeleteI noticed that the Houston Chronicle has said not a word about this. Has Whitmire got them in his back pocket, too?
I doubt any ex-employees that may or may not have a case against TYC are looking to walk back into TYC because of this ruling. Correct me if I am wrong.
ReplyDeleteSome may actually go back to TYC, just to prove a point. But, many will never go back, since they deserved to be fired and they know many employees know they should have been fired long ago.
ReplyDeleteSince the braininess Senator out of the Houston area condoned this will he be held responsible?
ReplyDeleteI would say NO, and this is a shame since he is an elected official who by his actions or inaction's will cost the state of Texas a lot of money, and this seems to be an issue with him here lately (cost to house a youth in TYC).
Can we have a hearing to see who was culpable for this waste of taxpayers money?
Okay would anyone really go back to prove a point? Wouldn't any ex-employee be foolish to go back simply because they could be Rif'd with no recourse. Think about it...
ReplyDeleteThats been the problem in TYC, there was no thinking about what was going on. Some dups will always be in TYC. Some simply are there, waiting for a reason to sue anything.
ReplyDeleteActually, we could use a few folks like Corinne, Pat and Don who knew what the h&ll they were doing. I doubt any of them will be coming back, tho'. Too bad.
ReplyDeleteAs the old saying goes, "You can't un-ring the bell." For me there is way too much in the way of bad memories for me to ever return to TYC. After trying to recovering from the psychological trauma of getting fired without cause by Jay Kimbrough, I am much too happy to abuse myself by going back to TYC. The things my family and I suffered due to the actions of Jay Kimbrough's lawless action have forever turned me against working for the State of Texas. I will however be more than happy to take the money due me for the illegal act perpetrated against me and my family by Jay Kimbrough and the State of Texas. My lawyer filed suit over a year ago on the same grounds and the Federal Ruling should grease the skids for my case. Go back to TYC; Hell No!
ReplyDeletePlease don't reach a non-disclosure settlement.
ReplyDeleteWe need open records for Ole Whit's reelection campaign.
The State probably won't settle, and this foolish mistake will end up costing taxpayers millions!
ReplyDeleteProbably to be paid out of the TYC Budget, what little there will be after this session.
ReplyDeleteThey better call Obama for some bailout money, these lawyers are about to take TYC to the bank.
ReplyDeleteSo, we are letting the rats back in. It seems to me we have too many of the old rats still running things at TYC.
ReplyDelete“So, we are letting the rats back in. It seems to me we have too many of the old rats still running things at TYC.”
ReplyDeleteDon’t bet on it. No sane person would want to come back to what is now called TYC once they have had a taste of freedom from the abuse many employees suffered. If anyone believes TYC is a better place today than it was 2006 then you are sadly mistaken. No real program for the youth and staff morale in the dumper is something we long for as ex-employees – NOT!
The bottom line is that Jay Kimbrough and Senator John Whitmire violated the law and now the state has to pay the cost of its wrong doing. It doesn’t matter if all or none are “Rats” as you put it, the law was broken. Don’t be angry with the people who were illegally fired, instead turn your anger to those who are responsible for the unlawful action that will cost Texas taxpayers dearly.
Amen, 5:11! Unfortunately, Whitmire is made of Teflon.
ReplyDeleteYes, it may cost millions, but the previous employees actions, or inactions, also cost the state millions; let alone gutting every program in TYC, good or bad. Many of these fired/what ever employees needed to go. There are some still entrenched that need cut loose also.
ReplyDeleteBy no means would any sane person think or say that all of the remaining employees of TYC are bad. At the urging of legislators, TYC made big HR mistakes in the past. There are good professionals still standing the line and manning up every day across the state. But, you can also most certainly state that there are a few complete idiots still inside the fence. One only looks to the southern sky and think of Edinburg. The facility down here (unfortunately for the state) is staffed by persons unemployable any where else. There are persons still here who are unable to handle positions when promoted and still get to stay employed by getting demoyed, there are people still here who are unable to pass state educator certifications yet get to keep a paycheck, and there are disturbances almost every day because staff refuse to do their jobs. Staff jokingly state that the manager that can effectively run this facility has not even been born yet. What few good staff are gone, both long ago and recent, and the one or two remaining good staff are bogged down by all of the corruption. Wow, it is amazing.
ReplyDeleteAll the crap at TYC came about because the actions of a few. Unfortunately people who had done a good job considering the work conditions got sacked along with the bad. As posted above the law was broken and there are no excuses for that. I saw the video where Harris tried to tell John Whitmire about the situation at West Texas but Whitmire didn't have time for it. Two years plus down the road the truth of what happened starts to get fuzzy for many which will go a long way toward protecting the people who are ultimately responsible for the sex scandal at TYC. I noticed there are still no convictions or additional arrests in the case. The truly guilty go free while the innocent pay the price. Once again the Texas Legislature will operate on the cheap with TYC and they are part of the problems for TYC.
ReplyDeleteThe spin doctors may confuse many but there will always be a few who keep their eye on the real problem and its causes.
You continue to pretend to know all about TYC, and there were only two involved in the entire mess, that started all the problems. Pull your head out, again. There were many who also knew about that problem and others across the state, yet chose to be blind followers. Now you all pay and whine for getting caught. Pack up if you haven't already. You're not mad about the situation, you're mad because your gravy cart was overturned.
ReplyDeleteTalk about the gravy boat being upright and sailing along, 8:32 left off the one about the political pork skin that owes her way of life to no other one than Chewy himself. Most think she intellectually challenged. For her, communicating in any form is an exercise that she needs both Friday and Monday off to recover from. We laugh every time she strings together more than 3 words.
ReplyDeleteDon't know about other individual suits, but there is a huge CAL in the making.
ReplyDeleteFor us non-attorneys, what is a CAL?
ReplyDeleteNevermind, I get it it, class action lawsuit, duh.
ReplyDeleteJust curious for you attorney gritters, what do you think Corinne and Pat stand to get out of this as far as damages go? If it goes to court? If it is settled out of Court?
ReplyDeleteIts tough to watch you buzzards hoping to see TYC re-invented, over the false firings. Perhaps two or three were fired improperly, but most were in line for firings many months ago; just protected by the in-house idiots that were running TYC. Hope all you want...TYC is finished; any good riddance to most of you hang-oners and blind abusers. who think you are really youth saviors. You go to bed thinking "I saved a young person today", all along knowing you probably sold one out for your own benefit.
ReplyDelete4/16 @ 6:58PM
ReplyDeleteWhat/where are articles A, B, C & D? Scott, can you put a link to this?
Some of the posts up here make me believe that old Elmer, or members of his staff are posting regularly here. Note the responses any time someone brings up the fact that DH tried to tell old Elmer about WT and he gavelled him quiet, saying tell us about it later.
ReplyDeleteObfuscate by branding all TYC employees as worthless gravy train robbers. Go Elmer!
Does anyone have any idea if Brookins and Hernandez have trial dates?
ReplyDeleteThey both will get simple assault charges, then dropped from time restraints and lack of witnesses. Done, dissolve TYC.
ReplyDeleteThis matter will never settle. It has become a cause celeb' for TYC administration and the AG. How can you ever admit that your legal advice was incorrect or that your state agency was in error? Never!
ReplyDeleteBasicly, as a result of the judicial ruling the AG will fight and whine about the judge, fight and mske counter allegations regarding the ethics of the opposing attorneys, fight and spend lots of taxpayer money to justify their existance, till at the very end when they ultimately get a judgment against the state. They will then appeal all the way to the supreme court and finally, 10 to 20 years later, after all the legal wrangling is done TYC will wind up paying about a couple hundred thousand dollars and several millions in attorneys fees.
This is what happens with you get a state agecy with free attorneys (the ag) but no money to settle lawsuits.
4/22 2:01 - tell us about the CAL.
ReplyDelete4/22 - 3:55 - they shouldn't settle for less than a quater of a million plus attoney fees. If this goes to Court, they stand to get a judgement for at least one million plus attorney fees.
A lawfirm in San Antonio and Austin are in the discovery phase of the CALS and have the list of potential plaintiffs. It's been in the works for months.
ReplyDeleteFrom the pleadings posted in this matter it appears that the CALS attorney might be
ReplyDeleteDan Hargrove
210 223 9700
although he is in San Antonio
DALLAS MORNING NEWS
ReplyDeleteA U.S. district judge should overturn his ruling that the Texas Youth Commission improperly terminated two longtime employees after the agency's sexual abuse scandal, a federal magistrate has ruled.
Two weeks ago, Judge Orlando Garcia of San Antonio said the TYC erred when it forced Patricia Logterman and Corinne Alvarez-Sanders to resign or be terminated in mid-2007. The judge made the decision without input from the Texas Attorney General's office, which mistakenly failed to file briefs defending the TYC.
On Wednesday, U.S. Magistrate Judge Pamela Mathy said the court should reconsider the case in light of the state's belated argument. Mathy also said the women should be denied their request for summary judgment, meaning they'll have to take the case to a full trial. Judge Garcia is expected to sign off on the order.
"We are pleased with the magistrate's recommendation," TYC spokesman Jim Hurley said. "This case will now proceed and the merits will be heard."
The last thing TYC wants is for the merits to be heard.
ReplyDeleteI sure wish ole Hurley would go back to selling used cars!
ReplyDelete