Friday, March 19, 2010
'Getting More for Less in Juvenile Justice'
Marc Levin of the Texas Public Policy Foundation just published a new 44-page public policy report (complete with 232 footnotes) with the pithy title "Getting More for Less in Juvenile Justice: Innovative and Cost-Effective Approaches to Reduce Crime, Restore Victims and Preserve Families" (pdf). I've not read it yet, but here's a taste from the Introduction: "Saving a youth from becoming a chronic offender results in $1.7 million to $2.3 million in avoided lifetime costs to taxpayers and victims. Consequently, all Texans have a large stake in cost-effective approaches to juvenile justice that result in more youths turning away from crime and towards a future as a productive citizen in which they are an asset, rather than a liability, to their fellow citizens."
Of course, locking them up made them worse criminals....the system failed them again. I feel so bad because I've been a juvenile probation officer for 15 years and if Levine had only told me this years ago I could have made so many kids into productive citizens, instead my ignorance caused their future criminality. Perhaps our Juvenile Probation Officer certification should also include a lesson from the Texas Public Policy Foundation since they seem to know how to reduce crime so effectively.
ReplyDeleteThe study is clearly flawed; however, I am sure the politicians will eat this up! WOW, we can have our cake and eat it too? Save money and reduce crime, it doesn't get any better.
ReplyDeleteI can't help think of the joke: a mathematician, an accountant and an economist apply for the same job. The interviewer calls in the mathematician and asks "What do two plus two equal?" The mathematician replies "Four." The interviewer asks "Four, exactly?" The mathematician looks at the interviewer incredulously and says "Yes, four, exactly."Then the interviewer calls in the accountant and asks the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The accountant says "On average, four - give or take ten percent, but on average, four."
ReplyDeleteThen the interviewer calls in the economist and poses the same question "What do two plus two equal?" The economist gets up, locks the door, closes the shade, sits down next to the interviewer and says, "What do you want it to equal"?
Since the report is well written and documented, I would think he could do his report without your help, Randy. Still, I have to admit you are good at finding ways to promote that book.
ReplyDeleteThis is a perfect example of how data can be used to pervert reality!
ReplyDeleteLots of data in this report.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that jumped off the page for me, though, was the very positive appraisal of juvie drug courts, which seems in contrast with the study Grits quoted in a recent post.
BB
How can anyone read Raped by the State. I'd have to get revert to my fist grade reading level to get any clue as to what that book was about.
ReplyDeleteI should add that on a very quick reading, I really like a lot of what I'm seeing in this report, esp what he has to say about school discipline policy and overall de-institutionalization.
ReplyDeleteBB
maybe you all should read the report before commenting. And i think a lesson from the TPPF for JPO certification is a great idea, because apparently your reading skills are limited.
ReplyDeletePlease explain how this review, not study, is flawed? and yes intensive treatment for juvenile offenders is sound conservative fiscal policy. have been saying it for years here now.
Maybe your joke should include a JPO, who would say, uh, let me check my fingers.
I am sure that the author did not consider that book you keep pimping on this blog in his report, otherwise he would have
referenced it. hmmm...great report writing, as not seen in that other book.
The only perversion is your inability to consider facts and opinions other than your own.
Thanks Bill for a meaningful comment. They seem to be amazingly rare on this blog's TYC-Juvenile justice strings.
Thanks grits for publishing this. There is some great information in here!
9:10, do you work in the corrections or probation field? My experience is over 15 years in juvenile probation. What's the solution for offenders that refuse to respond appropriately to therapeutic, diversion, or evidenced based programs? The system has been using these tools forever and most offenders, before they are locked up, are given opportunities to attend these programs. Many times the offenders are given many many chances before institutionalization. They refuse to change and therefore consequences must be applied or the system and the Judge's become worthless of their authority and community safety responsibility. In my experiences, I can tell you that more times than not, probationers change their behavior out of fear of consequence, not because they want to change or have to see a therapist. Therapists and counselors are only as good as the information their clients provide them and I can guarantee you that the offenders are not being honest in therapy. I am also disgusted by the lack of real supervision that takes place in both juvenile and adult probation. Too many chicken shits in this field who are scared of their clients or chief's and directors who hire social work minded people who think they can change everyone. There must be a balance in programming, supervision, and consequences in order for the system to make real change in offender's lives.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that jumped off the page for me, though, was the very positive appraisal of juvie drug courts, which seems in contrast with the study Grits quoted
ReplyDeletein a recent post.
--
I may be mistaken about this, but if your recollection is about some substance abuse programs having a worse than doing nothing outcome I don't think that was referring to drug court programs. I am all but certain the negative outcome programs were only among those already incarcerated. My understanding of drug courts is that they try to keep people from being incarcerated to begin with.
9:10, the data is not flawed; however, the interpretation of the data and the conclussions derived from that data are flawed.
ReplyDeleteI have no doubt that juveniles placed in education programs are less likely to reoffend than say a juvenile placed in an ISP program or boot camp facility. However, you must consider the juvenile, not the program. Juveniles placed in more restrictive programs are more likely to reoffend based on the fact that they are at higher risk going into the program. Many times, juveniles in boot camps and intensive programs have previously had the benefit of less intensive alternatives without success.
"Research has indicated that out-of-school suspension actually
ReplyDeleteaccelerates delinquency, as these students often lack proper
parental supervision, particularly when there is only one parent
who is working, and frequently wind up getting into trouble on
the street."
This about summed it up for me. Proper parental supervision. That has become a novel concept today, something we had as a child growing up in the mid 50's and
60's.
"Particularly when there is only one parent who is working" you say? Again, both parents did not have to work in the 50-60's leaving one parent at home to supervise the kids. What an ideal situation we had then that we don't have today.
And one last thought. All this concern about how to redirect bad behavior. It's called discipline in our homes,in our schools and back to the home. In other words, you get in trouble at school and the discipline imposed by the school is reinforced in the home.
Course in today's society way of thinking, we do not want to harm the esteem of our children.
Get back in touch with me when you figure out how to ask God to rejoin in and get family values back in place.
Child of the 50's
With almost 30 years in adult and juvenile probation one thing is certain. Supervision IS NOT effective if done within the confines of the JPO/CSO offices. I agree that judges MUST hold the offender accountable and in the cases where the whole family is on some type supervision, there needs to be a cooperative effort from CSCD and Juvenile. We used to have Project Spotlight in Bexar County that paired a CSO, JPO and sheriff's deputy. Constantly being in the offenders life was very effective in obtaing chang. We were almost a part of the neighborhood and involved everyone in our attempt to gain change. But, with all GOOD programs the lege dumped it.
ReplyDeleteThe bottom line is this: when a probationer reoffends, the community doesn't go to the counselor and ask "why didn't you fix him" or to the treatment provider demanding answers. They want to know who was supervising him and how we failed to anticipate his potential risk.
ReplyDelete8:13, you are wrong!
ReplyDeleteSupervision is successful when done within the confines of the office. If you stay in your office, you are less likely to uncover violations of probation. If the offender doesn't receive violations of probation, they are less likely to be revoked. If the offender is not revoked, they successfully complete probation.
........sarcasm................
This business is not about success, it is about the appearance of success.
The biggest flaw with the report is that Mr. Levin is suggesting that changes made in 2007 have had an impact on present day crime statistics. It is the same flaw in logic that suggests that there won't be long term negative consequences when juvenile offenders come to realize that the worst thing that's going happen to them when they offend is a year in a program that's been reduced to a summer camp. It's way too early to be claiming success or failure.
ReplyDeleteSpeaking of simple economics, the people who live in the rural areas where the facilities are being closed and jobs being taken away are all going to realize that they are paying taxes on programs that are only existing in urban areas, because the highest crime rates are in urban areas. The majority of the state is small town and rural and when these people ultimately realize they are getting screwed by the megaplexes they will unite and revolt. We should do it now.
anon 7:38
ReplyDeleteGuess you grew up in a different 50/60s era than I did. Single parent household - father went through 4 wives (and kids) before he finally stuck it out with the 5th and (two more kids - she waited quite a few years before giving birth to their first). He had been given up for adoption by his own unwed mother at birth. But hey, those were the virtuous days of America. Right. :~)
There are oddities everywhere -17; your family was rather odd, it appears.
ReplyDelete9:59
ReplyDeleteI do just about anything I can to help my probationers change their behavior, NOT just complete probation. But, I also require that they be held accountable for following the rules/conditions of probation. And NO, I won't sit in my office and PRETEND that everyone is complying with the court's orders like the Chief's, Administrators and the Lege does.
Sorry but you're wrong. Many of us do the job and do it well, regardless of the talking heads ideas of success!!!
I grew up in a "normal" white middle-class family, exposed to only one channel on television, and a mother who stayed home and "kept house." I wasn't exposed to life on the other side of the tracks, because of segregation. All that "normality" was an illusion created by the economic boom as a result of the soldiers returning home from the war with Army back pay. The illusion disappeared when we began to see on the evening news the inequities of the treatment of people on the other side. Morally things are much better now, because we are seeing through the illusions. "Leave it to Beaver" only existed on television.
ReplyDeletePeople will always try to justify their own short-comings. Most anyway. Life is pretty much what you make of it and the answer is not to blame everyone else for your problems. We simply can't give everything to everyone; some have to work and make life go on. Join us and get off your butts and follow the law, like most of us do. We're tired of carrying so many misfits of society.
ReplyDelete11:49
ReplyDeleteyou clearly missed the sarcasm in my post. My post was not a jab at the officers working tirelessly with youth day in and day out. It was directed at the foundations, administrators, TJPC, and the lege that are far removed from the day to day issues dealing with probationers however consider themselves experts on juvenile crime.
Well said 9:59. Getting away from the desk and supervising within the community is too rare in this state!! Supervision leads to an increase in violations,recidivism increases, and then the legislature concludes that probation is not doing their job!? Based on TJPC's state mandated standards, paperwork is the priority in Juvenile Probation in Texas, not compliance,supervision, or community protection. They see a majority of probationers as victims of poor circumstance not offenders. Here is the bottom line .... offenders are a product of their home environment and screwed up moral compass. No system will be able to fix that; however so many professionals in this field continue to make excuses for them and pretend that we are able to come up with a system that will fix them. The system didn't cause the problems and the system won't be able to fix them either. I have hope for all that we serve; however it is my opinion that our client is the community, not the offender. Let's stop blaming ourselves when the offenders don't change.
ReplyDeleteanon 11:28,
ReplyDeleteGuess as odd as 12.5 percent of the American families in 1960 or as odd as the 3 out of 10 non-traditional households in 1940.
If playing the odd game makes you feel better....you must be a probationer or work at headquarters where excuses are developed. Take fewer drugs get with real time.
ReplyDelete"I wasn't exposed to life on the other side of the tracks, because of segregation."
ReplyDelete11:55 I was fortunate that I was exposed to life on the other side of the tracks and was in a classroom with other races before segregation became about.
"Morally things are much better now, because we are seeing through the illusions."
You can't be serious.
12:25 you are right on point!
How fast can a man run from his children?
ReplyDeleteAnon 9:57,
ReplyDeleteI'd ask my old man as he managed to run from quite a few (at least 4) but he died a few years ago! :~)
12:25.........you sound like someone from either Wichita Falls (gun toters) or Levelland. If you want to be in law enforcement, resign from your probation job and go to work as a street cop.
ReplyDeleteI hate to break the news to you hard working POs and other LE types, but most juveniles will not go to TYC/prison/adult probation. Lock up should only be for felony offenders. Just like it should be for adults. Too many are locked up because PO/Judge feelings are hurt that probationers have not obeyed the "rules". As with adults, we cannot put our morals on other people. I love paying for it though.
ReplyDeleteGot a hangover there this morning 6:43?
ReplyDelete6:43
ReplyDeleteWhen you get a chance, you might want to take a look at the Juvenile Jutice Code. Our mandate goes beyond rehabilitive efforts.
When probationers reoffend while on supervision, nobody demands answers from the counselor as to why they were not successful in rehabilitation, they want to know who was supervising the individual. Community safety is just as important as rehabilitative efforts.
6:43, i'm not from wichita falls but perhaps i should contact them because the post you are referring to makes sense. JPO's are not law enforcement but couldn't we argue that it is court order enforcement. Supervision is the key component in proving that offenders are abiding by their probation. If you were to ask the community what a probation officer's job description is, they would tell you that we make sure probationers are following the rules of the Court....SUPERVISION!! Therapy and , it is also very important. You mentioned guns and I say why not allow them the opportunity to protect themselves if they feel it's needed. Besides, aren't adult probation and parole officer's given the same statutory right? Never heard of one incident involving someone being shot....could that be because they are trained professionals!? We supervise unpredictable and dangerous people not to mention their families who are usually on supervision as well. Wisen up, every probation department's clientale is different and pose different challenges....not to mention the requirements of their Juvenile Boards. Good luck with your Maysi and case plans!
ReplyDeleteI find these posts most interesting, and sad. Since many of you are into LE, PO, or corrections, it makes sense that you constantly complain about daily life. Why not get a real job and stop the complaints? If you are unhappy in your line of employment, join the corp of foreign volunteers and mess up their life for awhile. We here are tired of the constant complaining and sobbing in your beer losers.
ReplyDelete6:43.. Characterizing Wichita Falls as 'gun toters' is an unfair assessment considering compliance related work is only a small fraction of what we do (although an important part).
ReplyDeleteYou failed to mention many of our therapeutic and rehabilitive programs. You made no reference to our individual counseling, family preservation or parental services. You didn't comment on our various partnerships throughout the community including MHMR with whom we work hand in hand everyday. There was no discussion of our partnership with the Children's Home where juveniles may be removed temporarily from their home while remaining in their community as we work through family issues with the overall goal of reuniting the family as quickly as possible. Your mischaracterization of our department is an insult to the staff that enthusiastically come to work everyday with the hopes of changing a child's life.
SB 1237, which allows certain probation officers to carry a firearm on duty with the consent of the Chief and proper training, was birthed in Wichita County with the support of many departments across the State. Our department has a handful of officers that are not assigned a caseload. Rather, their responsiblity is to work late evenings and weekends in the community ensuring juveniles on supervision comply with the conditions of probation. The firearm is merely a defensive measure, not a tool for arrest.
We work closely with the local police department as the safety of our officers is our number one priority.
If you are going to 'call out' a specific individual or department, at least have the courage not to do so anonymously.
Brian Waddell
Deputy Chief, Wichita County
Not sure how guns help you be a more effective probation department?
ReplyDeleteBeing 'not sure' indicates you are an idiot! Excuse yourself and go to another site.
ReplyDeleteNo where in my post did I say or imply that guns make probation more effective; that was never our argument. We simply wanted to provide the option for certain officers that work primarily in the field.
ReplyDeleteBW
A problem that just doesn't go away:
ReplyDeleteA Justice Department study shows that female staff are more often implicated than their male counterparts in prison sexual misconduct.
Experts say there is a culture of silence in the prisons that makes it difficult for female guards to come forward with problems before they spin out of control.
Supervision is successful when done within the confines of the office. If you stay in your office, you are less likely to uncover violations of probation. If the offender doesn't receive violations of probation, they are less likely to be revoked. If the offender is not revoked, they successfully complete probation.
ReplyDeleteI realize this is considered sarcasm, but it’s so true. This is the secret to skating out a crazy probation. If it went for this I would have died in prison long ago. I went to college as a front to keep off the PO radar. I did it long enough to earn a BSEE from UT. Learned chemistry and beat those lame ass drug test. Hay after a few years in tyc on the med wagon I had to self medicate to study, Electrical Engineering at UT is hard unlike cop or guard school at Sam Houston. I have four awesome kids and a great wife. All of this is thanks to the policy of over loading PO case loads in an industry filled with people who are too lazy to get a real college degree and had to settle for something in criminal justice.
This is not sarcasm its fact, it’s how to skate out a probation/parole. Here in lies the twist so listen up you CJ people, being in college changed my lifestyle, I was in a not outlaw environment. Change in lifestyle meant change in life. What started out as just another game to beat the man resulted in a lifestyle change that generated a wonderful future for me. That the trick lifestyle change or as I like to say break norms.
So you people keep sniping at each other it keeps you ineffective and gives people a chance to skate. However I wonder how many skate like I did. And remember according to tyc thinking if you have a problem with the material in Raped by the State, you must be guilty of perpetrating that material.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
http://www.beaumontenterprise.com/news/local/missing_tyc_inmate_found.html
ReplyDeleteMissing TYC inmate found
ReplyDeleteWHY do the TYC people feel they are above the laws of the land and continue to show how many morons work at that agency? They help kids? Damn the bunch of freeloaders employed there.
ReplyDeletemakes you wonder how he escaped-- if he didn't go over or under the fence--hmmm-- sounds like possibly he had some help-- if the public knew what went on at Al Price- they would be appalled- the youth run the facility-
ReplyDeleteWhy does TJPC feel the need to be "gun toters" and "Law Enforcement"?
ReplyDeleteI hope our county allows us to carry. Parts of Houston are SCARY especially for a young white female going to make a home visit.
I have stated before, too many people trying to run other people's county department. Starts from TJPC who has no clue what occurs in a county department to the people from Casey Foundation to chief in 1 county trying to ramrod departments all over with his ideas.
ReplyDeleteWe have all lost our identity and purpose in the world of Juvenile Probation. FIX THE KIDS, not each other.
I am glad someone takes probation enforcement seriously. WF county and Bexar County along with a few others I heard about have strict probation enforcement programs and everyone should use them as models.
ReplyDeleteI won't arm my staff in my small county but if I was in a medium to large size I certainley would.
HOw did all this get off track. The report is very flawed in certain areas but on the other hand some new programs are brought up. The drug court concept is great. I have heard about it but this is the first indepth description I have seen.
ReplyDeleteSheldon, you would have never "skated" under my supervision. I'd nail your ass and all the little punk-thugs like you who try to skate around my supervision. You just lucked out with whoever supervised your ass. Consider yourself lucky, but your line of thinking tells me you'll re-offend again, if not already.
ReplyDeleteWOW 12:13....way to build up a guys character and self esteem. YOU are in the wrong business....you don't help...you make the situation worse. Resign now, you red-neck Ist degree idiot.
ReplyDeleteI love the picture on the cover of the report. Looks alot like the picture on the TJPC website.
ReplyDeleteHey Mark, for your next report, I have some pictures of actual juveniles taken from their myspace page. They include drugs, gang related poses, and of course, guns! If your going to be an expert on juvenile justice in Texas, maybe you should familiarize yourself with actual delinquents.
The picture of the bed with a teddy bear is a nice touch.
I do love how people who sit on the throne believe they know what is good for the juvenile departments across the state. First TJPC with their lack of experience now this guy who has no clue what happens within a department. Foundations who have bleeding hearts trying to set policy for us in the trenches. Well HEAR ME...... walk a mile in my shoes and YOU TOO will have blisters. Put on your work jeans, not your suits get your hands dirty and see how the real world works. I have heard several chiefs make the offer to TJPC for them to go to their departments and work their standards, which hasn't happened. I challenge Levine to go to a working department and get his hands dirty. If I had a detention center I would offer mine. Marc, go to any medium size county to small county and see how it is to work with kids when you have no money or resources. Budget cuts are demanded by the state legislature. Why has TJPC and TYC not cut their staff and money and leave the money funnelled to the children of the state alone.
ReplyDeleteMarc Levine, get out of Austin and work in a facility for a week or a month.
makes you wonder how the kid escaped from Al Price last Friday -- the public's safety was jeopardized for about 6 hours- i guess it will take an innocent person to get victimized before TYC makes some changes- someone needs to shut down the agency and let someone else run it who specializes in corrections- the bleeding hearts need to go
ReplyDeleteTexas juveniles would be better off and the public also, if there was no TDCJ, Probation/parole or TYC!
ReplyDeleteTYC is a failed organization. It is on life support and the machine needs to be disconnected. Change has only made the system more rotten and supervision has deteriorated to its lowest point. Even shock treatment can not save this bastard outlaw pool. Turn out the lights; the party is over.
ReplyDeleteIt’s all good 3/22/2010 1:28, I was hoping a stereotype would chime in because 12:13 is an almost perfect example of the kind of PO who makes it easy to skate. You play to their arrogance, it’s a manipulative trick I learned in tyc. I was able to import so much contraband and get away with so much crap by simply playing to the arrogance of the redneck boss’ in tyc and with the red nick PO’s in the free. Once I was switched to a female PO but I had something for that as well. But, by far the arrogant PO’s and boss’ were my favorite because they are so caught up in their own self its really a no brainer to get over on them. So for me if I were to be in a position to be supervised, I would want someone with SPS, small penis syndrome, like anonymous 12:13 to be my PO. But I’m not like that anymore and am truly remorseful for anyone who had the misfortune of having to supervise me back in the day. Although realizing that how I dealt with the PO’s led to the success I have today.
ReplyDeleteLet me repeat for those of you with sps, it’s the lifestyle change that led to the charmed life I have today. Not doing what came natural for a state boy like getting over on some poor sob with sps. FIX THE KID. It’s no wonder engineers and scientist think the word science should be removed from the phrase social science. These problems we have with juvi justice seem so easy to engineer a fix but there seems to be this culture where their so busy covering their ass and criticizing anyone who offers an idea that could lead to a solution.
And at this point in my life I would pity the PO who had to supervise me, even if my attorneys and political connections allowed any foolishness to get that far. I certainly don’t fit the demographics of today’s so called offenders who are sadly used to feed the societal failure we loosely call the criminal justice system in Texas. I respect LE but loath how in Texas it especially attracts so many ignorant people who suffer with sps it gives the whole profession in Texas a bad reputation.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Sheldon, I think your insight is helpful. I agree with your comment that it takes a lifestyle change, which most offenders don't know how to accomplish. So, what was it for you that caused the lifestyle change and does a probation officer have much of a chance to help cause the change while holding offenders accountable to the Court?
ReplyDeleteThe lifestyle on a college campus is somewhat different than the outlaw lifestyle. It’s like language emersion. What relatively little Spanish I learned in tyc or Hebrew I learned in Hebrew school was ok, but I wasn’t fluent. After an immersion in Mexican culture and Israeli culture for a month or so I was fairly fluent. This metamorphic change occurs as a natural progression. One day you wake up and realize that your dreaming in a language other than your native Texan. Same with the college lifestyle, one day you wake up and realize how foolish your old outlaw buddies are and you avoid them until one day they are no longer part of your world.
ReplyDeleteThe Probation/Parole officer is limited in that change process because of state oversight of their job coupled with budget constraints. However back in the late 70’s early 80’s there wasn’t this crazy layer of tax payer expense to oversee county Probation/Parole officers but there were still the budget constraints thereby causing enormous caseloads. Because offenders need attention and like to act a fool the easiest thing an offender could do is get revoked. To the PO, especially one with SPS, it’s one less ass wipe on the case load never mind the judge has 10 more to replace them. In actually due to the constraints placed on the Probation/Parole officer, they hinder the change process.
I tell offenders to stay under the radar, a political correct way of saying don’t get caught. People are amazed when I tell them I was in Gatesville, not just now but ever since about my junior year of college. The old saying if you quack like a duck you must be a duck applies. But if you are under supervision of the state for being a duck you had better not quack, at least don’t quack around the wrong people. Same for offenders, it’s natural for them to act a fool, so don’t act a fool around the wrong people. When I say act a fool I mean victimless crimes that have been criminalize during the last several decades of moving our society towards a police state. I certainly don’t advocate victimizing people.
Probation is like making a hotel reservation, it’s up to the offender if they want to keep it, Probation/Parole officers just do the paperwork. And today, lots a damn paperwork.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Thanks for answering my question Sheldon......TYC and probation did not create your lifestyle change, you did!! You made my point for me, lifestyle changes are not made by probation officers, nor is it our role. These so-called juvenile justice experts who are merely philosophical ignorants have concluded that the system can fix the dysfunctional lifestyles of our offenders. My department has offered many juveniles the opportunity to change their lifestyle and to be placed in a residential facility on a long term basis but none of them accept the offer....they don't want change! I commend you for taking responsibility for your life and not relying on the government to give you happiness. The more our country relies on government to make their lives happy, the more we will be disappointed.
ReplyDeleteI am sure Sheldon did rely on government, he was in college...from one institution to the next. It is unfortunate Sheldon that you did not have the same mindframe in TYC that you did in college. There are many youth that experience the exact same thing that you described during your college years, while in TYC. Guess it takes some longer than others to take advantage of the opportunities placed before them.
ReplyDeleteIn other words, you are a dumbass and irregardles, TYC will blame you for their failures; even though they actually failed you and millions of other youth. Just be glag that you are free of TYC and that mindless state agency in a loss state.
ReplyDeleteTYC, millions of youth? you are shameless.
ReplyDelete