From the Beaumont Enterprise:
- What does it take to reform a reformatory?
- How offenders graduate from TYC
- Scenes from a juvenile detention center
From the Dallas News:
Wednesday, February 23, 2011
'What does it take to reform a reformatory?'
I noticed a few stories related to juvenile justice and the Texas Youth Commission that may interest Grits readers:
From the Beaumont Enterprise:
From the Dallas News:
From the Beaumont Enterprise:
From the Dallas News:
LOL. I love it, juveniles flashing gang signs as they pass each other in the hall.
ReplyDeleteAre you just blathering on to yourself, 4:10? There's nothing in any of those stories about "flashing gang signs." Maybe you should consider getting back on your meds?
ReplyDeleteMaybe you should look at the pictures attached to the article before you respond!! The juveniles are in fact flashing gang signs as they pass in the hall. In fact, the reporter mentions they are in violation of the rules!!
ReplyDeleteSettle down grits, it was simply an observation.
Those are gang signs Scott, sorry.
ReplyDeleteMy bad, you're right. I didn't realize there were more photos than just the thumbnails.
ReplyDeleteScott was RIGHT the first time but retracted with the wrong answer. Those are not gang signals (give me a break). If you look one is displaying a peace sign on each hand and the other person is giving the Hookem Horns (Longhorns)signal/sign. Nothing I see gang related about either one. I am old but I am not that far out of touch.
ReplyDeleteOh my gosh!!
ReplyDeleteYou just keep believing that!!
LOL
Anon 8:38 P:M....Go back and look at the pictures with an open mind. Not one looking for fault/wrongs in our youth. I am not going to share my credentials with someone mundane, but I am VERY familiar with street and prison gangs. You need to do some research or take you some educational classess before sharing your non-expertise with others.
ReplyDeleteI am not looking for fault in our youth; however, those particular are in TYC. If you think they are encouraging peace or representing their favorite team, so be it. Who knows, maybe they were representing their future alma mater.
ReplyDeleteMaybe TYC should change the rules so these juveniles can continue to spread peace and harmony throughout the facility.
You are naive if you think those youth were representing peace and 'hookem horns'.
Simply my opinion.
It is what it is and we neither can anticipate their motive. But gang signs it was NOT! Your condesending message of sending peace etc. was childish.
ReplyDeleteI am far from naive, I am a realist. They do have medications for paranoxia and maybe you should get a scrip.
Thank you for your opinion, you know what they say about those...like a@@ holes, everyone has one.
Maybe you should consider getting back on your meds?
ReplyDeletePeople who disagree with Grits are often accused of being mentally ill. Is that argument persuasive?
10:09, not people who disagree with me, that reaction is reserved for people who see things that aren't there.
ReplyDeletewow, dude. Those are gang signs.
ReplyDeleteOnce again, we have "swivel chair" TYC experts making commentary who have never even set foot in a unit. The PE teacher at Al Price taught the boys a song in sign language, and they performed it during graduation.
ReplyDeleteWhy don't some of you "experts" spend some of your swivel-chair time looking at the improvements that have occurred in that unit in the past year? They are quite impressive.
Gatesville State Rehab (song)
ReplyDeleteThere's a reform school in Texas,
And I know the tales that they tell are true.
'Cause I've been through it buddy,
And I wanna tell the truth to you.
Well, they'll knock you down and kick you
And they'll beat you till you're black and blue,
But as long as you are there,
Ain't nothing you can do.
Well, I got sent to Gatesville in June of 64.
I hadn't been there but five long days,
When I got beat to the floor.
And the man just stood there grinnin',
Thinkin' he was bad,
And the shape his soul was in
Would make a preacher sad.
Well they'll beat you up in Hackberry,
And they'll stomp you on the Hill.
They'll knock you down on the Riverside,
And kick you in the Valley still.
And the boys up on Terrace, they got spots of blue.
And God bless the boy, who can live through Mountain View.
I said, God be with you boy, don't let it happen to you.
Well a group of men from Austin, were sent to investigate.
But the evidence was hidden, and the men just couldn't wait.
So they left there a-thinkin'; everything was OK.
'Cause the boys there in Gatesville, were too afraid to say.
That they'll beat you up in Hackberry,
And they'll stomp you on the Hill.
They'll knock you down on the Riverside,
And kick you in the Valley still.
And the boys up on Terrace, they got spots of blue.
And God bless the boy, who can live through Mountain View.
I said, God be with you boy, don't let it happen to you.
Jack Olin Hotchkiss © 1968/2009
Some things never change with these state people.
Many people believe that education is the solution, it's not. In fact, some of America's most notorious criminals are highly educated.
ReplyDeleteIf TYC doesn't address the gang / criminal culture that these kids embrace, they will simply leave TYC a thug with improved math skills.
However, at the end of the day, no blame should be placed on TYC if these kids are not successful.
What is bunch of crap!
ReplyDeleteI like the articles. They're well-written and unbiased. I don't think it's a big surprise that the kids in a juvenile correctional facility have some anti-social issues, including gang affiliation. But, the articles show the very human condition...both of the kids and the people who work with them. I like the compassion of the principal. I like that effort's being made. I like that it seems to be working. We bash this facility for years and when something goes right, the only thing we can comment on is whether a peace sign is a gang sign?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 2/24/2011 10:34:00 AM said:
ReplyDelete"Many people believe that education is the solution, it's not. In fact, some of America's most notorious criminals are highly educated."
You have got to be kidding with this statement! Education is EVERYTHING when it comes to rehabilitating these kids. The problem with the TYC Austin crowd, it that they have been drinking the same kool-aid you have. Then one day, one of the TYC swivel-chair experts pulls their finger out of their butt and sticks it in the air and proclaims: "Duh hey, education isn't so important - let's make education a low priority, and instead, concentrate on keeping them locked up with nothing to do. That way, they will never have marketable skills or hold a job, and will continue to re-offend and get sent back here. That way, we will all still have these cushy jobs in Austin. Yuk yuk - ain't I smart?"
WOW, this is a sensitive crowd!!
ReplyDeleteMy post was not meant to minimze the importance of education. I completley agree that education is an essential component of any program. However, if you think that these youth are going to turn their backs on their criminal conduct just because they were educated, you are out of touch.
The education / criminal justice system did not fail these kids, their parents failed them.
And while getting them educated is important, it is ultimately not going to solve their problems or keep them out of trouble. These kids lack character, integrity and have an overall lack of respect for other people. Those issues must be addressed first. If there is no success in those areas, the fact that they score higher on the TAKS means absolutely nothing in the long run.
Those two boys are definitely throwing gang signs, but it disturbs me that the first poster only noticed that one aspect of the articles and the other pictures.
ReplyDeleteI saw gang signs but that doesn't mean I need to "get back on medication."
ReplyDeleteWhen I look at one of the pictures I see a pimp, 3 ho’s and a young man who appears to be pulling his pants up, most likely from being serviced in a dark classroom. We see what we want to see. I most likely will always see tyc staff, especially today’s tyc staff, as a bunch of bullies who would be scared to death to confront one of these kids in the free world like they would under the protection of the system. Even tyc kids in their 50’s and 60’s. lmao
ReplyDeleteWhat Amy is doing is really cool and would be a shame to take away from that. However I don’t understand because it should be a no brainer that if you treat these kids with respects most will respond positively. That’s how the staff back in the day was; if you were respectful they didn’t beat you. The tyc staff are supposed to be professionals at working with these types of kids yet the general consciences is they appear to carry themselves like pimps and ho’s.
The tyc staff sees the kids reflecting the staff attitude back to the staff yet the staff continually deflects this reality. It’s a vicious circle, one that’s a contributor to why pedophile staff get a walk in the tyc culture and what should be a “no brainer” is touted as something spectacular. You can’t fix this any more than you can fix stupid.
It’s very sad the first response about a very positive tyc program, using a tried and true technique of dealing with these types of kids, is to point out some negative aspect. I think it’s just the habitual deflecting of the tyc staff culture. The parolees I work with from tyc are great kids; I treat them with respect and have high expectations.
The kids are going to act like animals if you treat them like animals. The tyc culture is a social experiment in how animals treat each other. Be it staff on staff or staff on student or student on student. Amy is “breaking norms” and should be commended.
As far as gang signs, the kids are representing their towns, a ritual that goes as far back as tyc itself. My guess is one kid is from Houstone and one from Orejones. I can see where a staff would use "flashing a gang sign" to call out a kid just to be duchebags and/or to hold pressure over him for favors, and we know what that leads to, an acquittal for tyc staff. GD pedophiles.
The day to day tyc world is controlled and perpetuate by the line staff, the kids get to leave, and some are even repairable. That world survives because of the gullibility of the general public, state leadership turning a blind eye, reputation of the students, and the sick and twisted brains of those who make their mark for employment at tyc.
Sheldon tyc#47333 c/s
Dallas, Big-D, D-town, 214 to the core
MVSSB, GSSB, Ftyc
I agree with some of that, most of all the part about Ms. Lopez breaking norms. She does treat the kids with respect, and she asks the staff to do the same. She also has been instrumental in cutting dead weight, flushing out people who've needed to go for a long time. Too bad she's not running the facility. I have to say the difference in the kids' behavior is remarkable since she's been there. There are still some clucks among the staff, because she doesn't have authority over the correctional officers, but she's motivated and encouraged good behavior in the adults as well as the students. Respect breeds respect, I agree, and she acts like she loves being there every day, and that's contagious.
ReplyDeleteAdolescents identify with gangs to establish a sense of individuality from the weak adults in their life. At some point their mirror neurons will help them learn the acceptable adult behavior for society, or they will live the rest of their lives in and out of institutions. Fortunately, that restricts their abilities to procreate. Evolution will eventually weed out the weak ones. Already abortion has eliminated a significant number of unwanted children that would fill our juvenile institutions. I just wish more future Texas legilators could meet the same fate.
ReplyDeleteYou are an idiot. 95% All of these TYC youth will be released to the community and will procreate before they are picked up on adult charges. Please. Give me a break.
ReplyDeleteJust because they are in class does not mean they are doing work. Those are clearly gang signs and anyone who sees peace signs and surfs up signals is an absolute complete idiot. Sheldon, your anger continues to consume you and prevents you from moving towards productive social involvement. Peace and hang ten!
ReplyDeleteAw. Another disgruntled TYC employee. Outta work I bet. Watch out. Your bitterness is showing.
ReplyDeleteJulie, get back on your meds. Please
ReplyDeleteThe same answer for anyone that disagrees with you! Lose yourself.
ReplyDelete"The tyc staff sees the kids reflecting the staff attitude back to the staff yet the staff continually deflects this reality."
ReplyDeleteSheldon that spirituality stuff may be a little much for this TYC bunch. It was good talking to you dude, I can kind of see your points.
Obviously you guys haven't been in a public school much lately. I used to teach in a rural elementary school and the housing project across street hang gang graphitti and we had first graders that flashed gang signs and whose parents had gang affiliations. I also worked with kids who had kids. Those gang signs are very real. Stop arguing.
ReplyDeleteReform? At TYC, just about everybody with a decent paying position has been bought off in one way or another. I'm not talking about a suitcase full of greenbacks but about performance appraisals, promotions and a dozen other perks. Some will condone anything so as to prove their loyalty to the privileged insiders.
ReplyDeleteWhat were we talking about? Oh yeah. Something positive going on at Al Price.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I have read about this agency, you people have nothing to offer but problems. State's in trouble...dump this worthless piece of crap.
ReplyDeleteconvokAs an outside observer, I had an opportunity to visit the Al Price educational unit and found it to be very efficient. The students were polite and the teachers were enthused about their challenge of teaching. The principal, Amy Lopez, has done a fantastic job of creating an excellent environment for learning. Congratulations to Amy and her Staff for a job well done.
ReplyDeleteRight, sucker. Don't you know they practice and set-up for people like you? Its not everyday living in TYC that you seen. Sorry to burst your bubble but you seem somewhat ignorant of the truth. Did Cherry send you out?
ReplyDeleteIt reads like outside observer reports have read throughout the history of Texas reform school movement. One there were some outside observers who spent a few days in a TYC facility, sleeping in the dorms. They said it was real nice the first day but after that everyone got back to business as usual. Go spend some real time in that cesspool the staff love to wallow in and you will right a different report.
ReplyDeleteBut even if you did this and wrote your report the professional at TYC would deflect your truths.
The reporter and photographer were there more than once, more than twice, more than one week, more than an hour or two. The hatefulness that consumes some of you is just sad. I know you'll have some snappy comeback. Your IQ is evident in your writing.
ReplyDeleteOriginal posts on Grits are great and worth discussing, but the average blogger here can't seem to discuss anything of worth. Just same old garbage that stinks of bitterness.
Hats off to Al Price education, including the JCO staff working there. You've made very positive changes.
When you only know dirt and worthless, you accept it as OK. Sorry for your misfortune, but you are wrong...good attitude but mislead by the TYC culture. Go get a good job...forget TYC and its sad abuse and misfortune.
ReplyDeleteWhere is the love? Al Price is clearly doing things right. Right for the youth and right for the people of the State of Texas who employ us. The wanta be people who throw rocks are clearly not happy with themselves, and wanta be back at work.(not) I for one am happy the way things are going and wish you were happy too ,but I know you cannot make everyone happy and once a butt,always a butt. Take some time for yourself and be happy,maybe find yourself a Bible based church that teaches kindness and maybe throw you a Zen saying or two. Most of all forget the past and move on with your life. Amen
ReplyDeleteLive,Laugh,and Love
I wonder how many of the people throwing dirt here actually read the article? It appears that there are two groups of posters who come on every string that mentions TYC to regurgitate their lines. One group trashes anything positive the kids might do (pissed off employees, or ex-employees, maybe?) and the other group trashes TYC and TYC employees (just plain hateful people, or Sheldon's peers?) Both groups need to get over themselves.
ReplyDeleteI wonder how many of the people throwing dirt here actually read the article? It appears that there are two groups of posters who come on every string that mentions TYC to regurgitate their lines. One group trashes anything positive the kids might do (pissed off employees, or ex-employees, maybe?) and the other group trashes TYC and TYC employees (just plain hateful people, or Sheldon's peers?) Both groups need to get over themselves.
ReplyDeleteI like the articles. They're well-written and unbiased. I don't think it's a big surprise that the kids in a juvenile correctional facility or the youth in free world schools are just kids being kids. But, the articles show the very human condition...both of the kids and the people who work with them. I like the compassion of the principal. I like that effort's being made. I like that it is working. Clearly this principal should be running the agency.She is not just bold in her actions,but she is also brainy and that scares some people.If people would get out of the way things used to be and move forward with the mission at hand there would be no blog. We were clearly at a crossroads and Lopez has some great ideas. I don't believe her mission is close to being complete. I think it was Mr.Obama that said change is coming. Guess what its here, embrace it and make it your own,because its here to stay. Thats all I'm going to say about this subject.
ReplyDeleteWhat the h--- are you talking about. Did you read the whole article. The article was kind of bias in the way it presented the principal as a goddess who came down to save the AL. I don't buy it for a second. That this person and her followers are trying to make this facility better than it was.Whats wrong with her? Does she think that Al Price is worth saving? Were we complacent,stagnant,or just stupid to think that no one would care to change the norm. That it is what it is,and we aint going to change. Did we not expect the spark that set the woods on fire? The truth is we needed someone like Lopez to shake up the popcorn so that we all get to popping.
ReplyDeleteThanks to Dr.Carpenter that saw the potential. That he recognized the education department needed a leader. That he interviewed and chose a person skilled in educational rules and people skills. Something we were lacking at the Al in the past.
Anyone that would refer to Obama chang, as good...is an idiot. Look what he has done to the country. He is taking us down a deep hole to being a third rate country. Go bow to him!
ReplyDeleteWell if you feel that way about it then go find you another country. Oh thats right you wont because there is no better country in the world,and you would rather bitch than support growth. Go babysit the Dixie Chicks airhead.
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't noticed the debt he has us in, or how he refuses to prosecute blacks that injure whites, you are an idiot. The dixie chicks could be better at running the country. YOU LEAVE...you dumb ass and take him with you.
ReplyDeleteI dont want any problems. You are clearly over-educated for this blog.
ReplyDeleteCalm down N---,Please
ReplyDeleteMy only fear is that Gov.Perry will not be hard enough on the agency. There is a lot of waste in the agency, and the only quick fix I see is to vote ourselves a 10 percent raise. By September 1st we could have a rainy day fund of our own and ride the next 2 years before he gives us our jobs back. Back to you Ollie.
ReplyDeleteI think we have lost track of the original post. The greatness of the people of (your facility here)to do great things for the kids, families,and the people of Texas. Our pros clearly out wiegh our cons. Our staff is truly resilient. The work we put into making our facility outstanding (WIP). From community relations,mentors,administration,training,family workshops.family involvement,rec.staff,maintenance,JCO,education,infirmary,security,cafeteria,warehouse,RIO-Y,and religious services. Reminds me of a pledge "One State under God Indivisable". You would have to be crazy to not want to be part of something this good. No matter how low we have been,or what some folks say,we accept and move on. We have nothing to prove.Like the kids we serve,we are the people who live next door to you. It doesnt get any better than this folks,not while you are in this world.In the words of Garth Brooks "I wouldnt have missed the dance"
ReplyDeleteIs this the only job you ever had? Sounds like you need to move on, you're fixed in a state job, however worthless; yet afraid to move where actual work may become necessary. You need special help to let it go and move forward. Think about it.
ReplyDeleteSTFU Ranty - we all know it's you... red headed dumbass
ReplyDeleteIs this the only blog you ever been on. You must not be happy at anything you do.Do everyone a favor quit your job,quit your nagging.and quit sucking up my air with your bullshit......
ReplyDeleteCan someone have the TYC treatment team check out the last two posters? They appear to be stressed to a point that blood vessels may give way and solve their stress issues soon. I'm sure help is available, please rescue these folks in dire consequence. The end justifies the means, generally.
ReplyDeleteOh I'm sure CoNextions will fix that. Contact TYC Central Office? Right...... like contacting a sinking ship for help, That makes a lot of sence.
ReplyDeleteBack to the original post...Lopez at least tries to make a difference. The facility administration spends their days with their heads up their butts. Always an "action plan" but never any action. Staff want to work in education because at least you get to work for a boss that cares and believes in good. And the more successful her department is, the more shots are taken at it and her. And she smiles and keeps trying. Gotta love that.
ReplyDeleteShe smiles and keeps sucking...like you other TYC suckups. Grow a mind and some bals.
ReplyDeleteLearn to spell balls
ReplyDeletelol! Speaking of growing a mind...
ReplyDeleteYou are as ignorant as a goat...........
ReplyDeleteYou mother's goat.
ReplyDeletethat is gang sign any of you "juvenile experts" heard of MS-13?
ReplyDeleteFull circle. Time to end this blog. Nobody wants to go back to the gang sign convo. Give it a rest.
ReplyDeleteSo if it's not TYC, what is the solution, then? I work for TYC. There's a lot of people on here that seem to suggest the TYC kids didn't really doing anything that merited incarceration. Give me a break! We have murderers and sex offenders who have committed heinous crimes. We can't just say "it's ok, go home now." What should we do with those kids?
ReplyDelete