Yesterday's briefing on the proposed merger of the Texas Youth Commission and the Juvenile Probation Commission was adequately covered by the MSM, so I'll let others do the heavy lifting:
Today's House Corrections Committee hearing, which will be streamed online here starting at 2 pm, will undoubtedly flesh all this out more detail when they hear Chairman Madden's HB 1915.
Let Whitmire and Madden babysit these kids for a weekend and see what they are capable of doing !
ReplyDeleteVery constructive, 9:37. Perhaps you've spent too much time babysitting and have forgotten how to conduct yourself as an adult.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think of the merger?
Texas Buget Source stated that during a press briefing yesterday that "Whitmire said with the savings in juvenile justice he would like to pour it into diversion and treatment programs in the adult prison system."
ReplyDeleteIs that correct?
My own opinion is that a few, perhaps as few as 3 or 4 (there are 10 now), secure facilities will still be needed to house predominately sentenced offenders, youth with violent offenses, and youth who have violated probation and failed placement multiple times.
ReplyDeleteBut cutting down the number of secure facilities from 10 to 3 or 4 seems reasonable, given the reduced population in secure care.
For years I have been a big fan of combining/merging agencies with similar or overlapping responsibilities into one agency. I wonder, though, if this merger will actually achieve the smaller bureaucracy that is intended, or if both agencies will still end up with their top-level administrators reporting to a new TJJD director. If they do this correctly, it might be a great model for probation and parole in this state. I know other Grits readers have mentioned before that they do not like that idea, but it can (and will, if done so properly) save more administrative costs that can be used for treatment and diversion programs for adults. I just hope this TJJD works out.
ReplyDeleteI knew that advocacy groups would play a role; however, I had no idea they would be sitting front and center.
ReplyDeleteI guess that is one of the perks for writing reports that back Whitmire's agenda.
This will save a lot of money in the short term. Whitmire is right that this state is becoming more urban, which means higher concentrations of poverty and an eventual increase in crime. I don't think he was ever right about trying to maintain the facilities in urban areas. Property is difficult to find and NIMBY is a bigger issue. Having facilities closer to the cities won't stop abuse. It's naive to think so. I think it's all going to end in disaster further down the road. I hope I'm wrong.
ReplyDeleteI just wish the ledge would put more stock in what the people in the field had to say and not advocacy groups who have never and never will work directly with juveniles across Texas. It is a slap in the face of the hard working people in probation and juvenile corrections that our hands on expierences mean nothing but people sitting in glass houses in Austin can determine what is best for us.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it interesting that the legislatures who are wanting to do all these changes are the same who have been running the correction side of things all along? Whitmire has been all over TYC for the past couple of years. They (the governor and lege) blew through alot of money bringing in their own TDCJ people to run TYC. Talk about fiscal mismanagement.So now this merger is going to save money. I'm not sure how when he wants these kids in urban areas..which means they'll be rooming with their old gang members. The rural approach was to remove the kids from the environment they came from and try to give them a chance in rehabilitating them. Now with TYC being just a prison system I'm not sure how this is going to help. They are felony offenders. They are kids who have committed some of the most awful offenses you can think of. As for probation? I think TYC gave them enough kids when TYC let all the misdemeanor kids lose in our neighborhoods. Does Whitmire want these facilities in his backyard? NO. What community does. That's one reason TYC had them in rural areas. The property is hard to come by and the people don't want it in their backyard. He must have someone (in his pocket) who has a facility for the right price. I think these two agencies should be merged but I think the legislatures running the show need some new blood on the panels to have some different perspectives.
ReplyDeleteAnd let's hope that Mr Goodhair doesn't bring in his "friends" to get this all going.
I'd be interested in finding out how Legislature plans on mandating, ensuring and verifying juveniles who are identified as needing to be placed in a facility are committed to community based programs and secure facilities near their hometowns. Not all county-run or private-run secure facilities in each regional area have the specialized treatment programs that are needed, such as substance abuse, female specific, mental health issues and sex offenders. As it is now, juveniles are sent to facilities where the identified area of treatment is offered but these facilities may not be in their nearby community. In fact, these facilities may be 3-5 hours or more away. How is this merge going to seriously work towards that philosophy? County-run and private-run secure facilities are not currently required to have those specific treatment programs. Will it be pushed for each county to develop and implement programs such as substance abuse or sex offender in their facilities rather than contract out and send their juveniles off to facilities who are hours away?
ReplyDeleteSince TYC has never provided real treatment to troubled youth and their history is against them, any change offered by the lege is welcome. We just can't keep doing the same thing with the same old negative results which are excessively expensive.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteObviously it’s hard for me to be objective with tyc, and a lot more fun to rip tyc a new one. After reading the HB 1915 I thought it will add more bureaucracy and bloat. I actually surmised that it was on purpose mainly because this recent sex abuse scandal was too much to contain. As I colorfully wrote, its putting another old dress on the same old crazy monkey the vet should have put to sleep decades ago. However I’m a big fan of Jerry Madden and the Sunset report read smartly so I’m thinking it’s a good thing. It will be interesting to see how fast this bill gets craped through our legislative goose.
ReplyDeleteFolks as a former alumni I believe tyc will always be what it will be, whatever the name. The kids who get sent there are some mean spirited kids and the people who work with them have to respond in kind. Newton’s 3rd law, what can you do. I really didn’t see much difference in the random sampling of staff I have had the misfortune to encounter in today’s tyc compared to the staff back in the day. Sure there were one or two that were decent and lead me to believe they cared just like when I was a kid, but for the most part it was the same old tycBS. The us vs. them mentality coupled with a thick CYA attitude got in the way of anything meaningful. I actually think it’s worse today than before Morales vs. Turman.
Just as there are staff who are decent in spite of the culture I also believe there are a few kids in tyc who don’t belong there. And to those kids and those staff I wish you the best of luck. There is one staff who I believe is truly on a mission from Gd. Like Father Atwood, OBM, was a good man in spite of the duchebag staff, this man is truly there to nurture kids back to life. The facility he is at is better off for having him there.
You people who provide the arm chair psycho-analytics to my post, thanks for caring but you’re about 30 years too late. Think about, why in the hell would I take any advice from you people!
anyone know the link to watch today's hearing now that it's over?
ReplyDeleteTYC Pussies dislike any change. TYC Pussies are the problem in TYC. TYC Pussies will dislike anything the lege comes up with. TYC Pussies go to hell.TYC Pussies care for themselves and no one else. They are Pussies and most TYC employees know who the pussies are..
ReplyDeleteThe TYC inbreads, TB, DC, DB, BH, DH, DD, O, and the other cover-ups/sucks have come to the hatching block. Hope the lege gets all the crimials left in TYC-the youth pit of abuse.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.house.state.tx.us/video-audio/committee-broadcasts/committee-archives/player/?session=82&committee=200&ram=11030914200
ReplyDelete6:49 Cut and paste
Since most of the TYC scum has been filtered away...hopefully with this legislature the remainder of the scum from TYC will be washed away. Then a new agency for youth care...not TYC ingrates or leftovers..can get a handle on Texas youth care for real. Rot the old...in with anything new except the rot of TYC.
ReplyDeleteIt's scary here in the building. I need this job but all you hear is the over two years staff talking about how much they know and how to bring back the greatness of the agency. You are either one of them or a new, afraid to speak newcomer to this place. Is it true about the past? What have I gotten into? What is about to happen to this p-lace? New people are told to shut up and do as told..is this Texas?
ReplyDelete3/09/2011 10:26:00 PM
ReplyDeleteDon't look too closely at what's going on at TYC. That's the only way to survive. Central Office will do nothing to protect you.
Sooootrue.
ReplyDeleteThis bill filed is just a "shell bill". The real thing will be vetted soon in "workgroups" as proclaimed by Madden yesterday. From the probation side that hearing was all about feel good advocacy groups until Representative Cain started hitting the nail on the head, grilling Chief Martin from Jefferson County about standards. It is evident he did his homework and knows what the field is going through. Rep Cain, from a probation worker in the field 20+ years, please don't let up. You sir are right on target.
ReplyDeleteWhile watching the hearing on HB 1915 it struck me that no one took a position on it until the probation people hit the scene. I guess they think they will take over. Cain did shake things up and White made some good points. Are the probation standards gonna change with all this? Probably not but if Cain keeps at it maybe they will see some changes. Maybe he will start in on the unneccessary ones TYC workers have to deal with also. Our difference is we work for the state and probation departments are county with a state agency ramming it down their throats.
ReplyDelete2:15 PM Don't you know??? everyone in Austin and DC know what is best for all us hard working people out here. Even though they don't have a clue with first hands on experience they know what is best for us in the field. Just like the state agencies that think they know best.
ReplyDeleteNo one wants standards and no one wants oversight. There is no need for any state agency, just send us or money and leave us alone!
ReplyDeleteSomeone also tell the comptroller to get out of our business it's all about money so take your 10-15% cut and mail us our dang checks!
For TYC just keep 65% for central office and pass a few tokens out to the facilities. TJPC since you do at least pass most of the funds through to departments, you need to butt out of county business.
Really! Let's just let individual counties do what ever they want...local control! Let kids learn a trade buy helping the chief remodel his house. Or do community service work at the judges ranch, departments don't need any standard from Austin on what's best for any kid outside of Travis County!
Cann's line of questioning about the facilities hotline....wow that really wore departments out....bet the TYC folks wished they had a hotline like TJPCs. If they had been ahead of the game we wouldn't even be having this conversation!
This all appears to be just another dog and pony show, but on a grander scale. I have dealt with state agencies and oversight long enough to know that when it comes to self-policing, it's not about keeping your own house clean. It's about moving the dirt around so your house "appears" to be clean. Everyone thinks that TYC's ombudsman and OIG are such a great idea. Boy, were you folks fooled! A complaint with either of these offices doesn't get any action to correct a problem. All it does is give the Austin elite a heads-up that someone is looking at a pile of dirt that needs to be swept under the rug. If anything ever gets fixed, it is done at the unit level by conscientious unit personnel. And, Al Price appears to be doing just that. Heck, a couple weeks ago, they had to send their own OIG officer packing! That's why it is soooo important to hire good people at the units, and do everything to keep the good people and good units in place.
ReplyDeleteGood job house corrections. Just watched you guys in action. Cain and White did great in questioning, as did others. Mr. Madden thank you for your leadership.
ReplyDeleteThe reality is that the vast majority of kids who are in TYC now have already failed in community programs. The communities don't want these kids, hell most of their parents don't want these kids.
ReplyDeleteIf they are talking about community based facilities run by county government then good luck. There are way too many rules, regulations, and standards for that to be successful.
Perhaps that is what is needed. The current system of TYC has proven it does not work. Any change will be an improvement over TYC procedures.
ReplyDeleteIncluding the layoff of nearly 800 people?
ReplyDeleteAll state employees will be replaced by privatized services. Wait until the budget is finalized and then the agencies that can still hire will post jobs available. Transfer ASAP as of Septembe 2012 there will be no more TYC period. If you think this bill won't pass, you have your head in the sand.
ReplyDeleteMan am I ever confused! Just watched the hearings and cant really wrap my head around what I just heard.
ReplyDeleteTYC is messed up thats why we are all talking about it. TYC has a huge bureaucracy built during the Steve Robinson era. It went unnoticed until the sex scandle. A few administrators later there are huge reductions in commitments and facilities closing. All this time the current administration KEPT THE BUREAUCRACY IN PLACE! And Madden says he likes what hes seen from Ms. Townsands leadership. Keeping the 250 plus central office employees while closing down facilities and laying off detention officers...and Madden likes what he's seen!
Knowing the state is having a budget crisis and passing out big raises to your inner circle...and Madden likes what he's seen!
And now after youve passed out thousands to your your friends Madden lets her come say how much she cant wait to work for the new agency!!! Texas cant afford her or her inner circle!
Most of us had hopes that Madden would be a voice of reason, honesty and move us out of the past...he just passed on the first chance to say things will be different, by "liking what hes seen" in the current TYC administration.
Please either give us a break or ask her to pass some money on down where the work takes place...but then it just might take 250 plus central office employees to keep this nightmare alive.
You're just mad that you have been cut from the suckup system of TYC. You did not suck up to the right people, or you would be in the protected class. TYC has always been an agency where knowing the right people and doing the right thing would get you ahead, right or wrong.
ReplyDelete2:51 your right, but your wrong! Yes, you have to suck to the right people and that has not changed even though I had hoped that it would. In fact over the last few years and most recently the people in the field have taken slap after slap, first from the kids that run the place. But the hardest slap though came listening to Administration defend handing out thousands of dollars to her inner circle.
ReplyDeleteSending us memo after memo about how its all going "well", thinking I guess that we are to stupid to watch hearings or read. Then the downsizing menos started and cuts are actually beeing made, not by evaluations but "go get one I dont care who you pick"! So the suck up program is in full swing. But the hardest part was hearing the raises justified by with the layoff they were being ask to do more with less!
There is 250 of you up in the ivory tower...doing more with less!
Have you been hit by a kid yet? Have been cursed at and warned its going to get worse? Has a kid laughed and told you exactly how many days he has and how you cant do anything about it? And you have to do more with less! What make your own appointment? Only three go to a meeting instead four?
No I'm a little ticked but I signed up help kids learn from thier mistakes and give them a chance for a better life. I knew I wasn't going to be a rich person by the normal standards used, but rich by giving a kid a chance at a life.
I'll keep praying for change, in the kids first and then the people in Austin running this place....but when I'm really really tired I might doze off before I get to the Austin folks!
In an ideal world, the Lege would create an integrated juvenile justice system that would provide true continuity of care and progressive sanctions from arrest, probation, community diversion programs, incarceration in a youth facility where necessary, step-downs and community re-entry and post-incarceration community supervision. In this same ideal world, there would be a small central administrative unit, and most of the resources directed towards service delivery. Unfortunately, we do not live in this ideal world. I predict our wonderful elected officials will create an even bigger bureaucratic monster with highly-paid administrators and low-paid service providers. The kids and society will be the losers. Such is life...
ReplyDeleteYou are talking about what TYC was supposed to be doing, but wasn't. We certainly don't need that type of mess again.
ReplyDeleteWhat I am saying is that they will do away with one bloated bureaucracy and replace it with another. The tooth to tail ratio in TYC is incredible. Over 250 employees in the central administration? The HR dept larger now than it was when TYC had over twice as many youth incarcerated? Huge raises to top administrators? What makes anyone think the new bureaucracy will be any different? Look at other state agencies - DHHS, DPS, MHMR etc. The same thing exists.
ReplyDeleteIf the lege has any bobsy twins, they will gut 85percent of this miserable agency. I'm already making plans to leave.
ReplyDeleteYou should have made plans to leave a long time ago.The agency would be better off without your bitterness.
ReplyDeleteThe bad thing is the agency is full of people like you,and the only way to clean the system is for all to reapply.That is the only way the Texas Juvenile Justice System will be successful. Get rid of the power hungry people that are selfish and dont want to change.The new administration is a Godsent for the agency and the State. I wish I would not have lost my job behind your foolishness, but in long term plan the agency will be better without people who cant get along with each other. Maybe your next job will be more realistic,and treat you like you treat others. I think then and only then will you appreciate how good you had it. I hope your happy. I know I will be happy not being around your negative vibes :)
ReplyDeleteIf the lege is cutting TDCJ's diversion program funding, what makes anyone think the same thing won't happen to TYC, TJPC or TJJD? No funds for community diversion programs; no secure facilities; where do we put the top 3% of the worst juvenile delinquents in the state?
ReplyDeleteI certainly won't reapply. I have been doing the job of 2 to 3 people for over two years now, and Austin constantly promise me help, but it never comes. The only reason they would lay me off is to try and reduce my salary after I was sucker enough to believe they would get me some help. Or, maybe because I have blown the whistle on so many of their shenanigans over the years. Of course, they have already said they want to keep me and move me to another unit if they close the one I'm in. But, I'm not going for one dime less. If they try to cut my salary, they can just drown in their own mess when those annual audits come, because I won't be there to fix it. I have one of those positions that I can go work elsewhere besides TYC. There are kids all over the state that need my help. I am in demand, and I can find a job anywhere.
ReplyDeleteIf that was true, you would have left years ago...not stayed with a dying agency. You may need to wake from your dream world and return to reality. TYC does have a an effect of placing people in dream worlds.
ReplyDelete7:43...do they test employees at your unit?
ReplyDelete"I have been doing the job of 2 to 3 people for over two years now, and Austin constantly promise me help, but it never comes."
...so they lie to you for two years and you stay!
"Or, maybe because I have blown the whistle on so many of their shenanigans over the years. Of course, they have already said they want to keep me and move me to another unit if they close the one I'm in."
They lie to you AND you constantly "blow the whistle" on them...and you think they can hardly wait to keep and move your whinning complaining whistle blowing butt to another facility...I THINK NOT!
"But, I'm not going for one dime less. If they try to cut my salary, they can just drown in their own mess when those annual audits come, because I won't be there to fix it."
Lets see? A dime less or layed off with nothing, thats pretty bad math. "fix it" on audits sounds like you might better leave before the Texas Rangers ask about your "fix it" answers!
"I have one of those positions that I can go work elsewhere besides TYC. There are kids all over the state that need my help. I am in demand, and I can find a job anywhere."
Really, they lie to you, put up with you, and you seem to have an over estimated opinion of your skills. I'm betting you know it all and set on your butt telling everyone how smart you are all the time...or you would have already left for one of those many places dieing for an employee like you!
You've pretty much given us insight to some the problems TYC has had to deal with in changing the old culture at TYC. I'm sure your in demand....just not in the youth corrections field.
Did I ask you if they do drug testing?
3/17/2011 07:43:00 AM
Here's a very simple fact and I am very serious about what I think is a major part of this new agency if indeed that is where we go. I do not mean this comment to taken as anything but what I think is critical to the success of this new program for juvenile offenders.
ReplyDeleteThere are 159 juvenile probation departments across the state. Each has a different percent of thier total budgets coming from the state. Some departments could tell the state to move on since state funding is a small portion of the budget, others are totally dependent on state funds. With the state in a budget crisis it would seem wise to keep this successful cooperative agreement in place since Texas can't afford to pick up the tab and add 159 departments.
In any system I can imagine local juvenile departments and thier courts are the front door to the states juvenile lock-ups (TYC). With a few exceptions the local departments have a good working relation with the current TJPC and the leadership there. Any agency with legislative oversight of local programs will at times step on a toe here or there but overall it's has been a good working relationship. As of the last two years that relationship has even improved with the hard work of an advisory council.
Bottom line is this as the director of a large department
I have confidence that we can make a great system, a much improved system and one safer for kids and one that will actually move offenders toward becoming a productive member of the community. A big part of that confidence about the future is very connected to the 20 plus years of working with TJPC.
With the dedication and hard work of the field and continuing the successful cooperative relationship between the state and the local departments we can get this done. To have this new agency headed by the leadership of the troubled agency or even someone the field does not even know or has worked with... Well it's just a formula for failure. And that failure will come from several directions in increased commitments, constant issues between the counties and the state and that translates to problems with juvenile court judges and county commissioners. There us no reason to fight our way down this road.
Let leadership that has respected this complex balance for years and can lead the state in this new direction take the lead in what we are doing now. It not only is the sensible thing to do, it's common sense and even the smart thing to do. Only fix what's broken .... And it was not TJPC that brought shame on the Texas juvenile justice program!
OR if current TYC leadership really is going to finish off one agency and then just smile and " work together" to lead this new agency ..... Can you make directors state employees so we can work our way into her inner circle and get in line for big raises while the state us broke.
Ah, more twisted logic from the Austin crowd. 04:44:00 PM asks:
ReplyDelete"7:43...do they test employees at your unit?"
I get tested everytime I walk through the gate. It makes for quite a porn show. I should charge admission.
"...so they lie to you for two years and you stay!"
I have been with TYC longer than two years. I would like to collect the retirement I've rightfully earned. That requires me to stay a few years longer.
"They lie to you AND you constantly "blow the whistle" on them...and you think they can hardly wait to keep and move your whinning complaining whistle blowing butt to another facility...I THINK NOT!"
Think all you want, but not many people are stupid enough to retaliate against an employee and risk a civil rights lawsuit. Besides, every now and then when the audits come around, they figure out quick who can get the job done, and who can't.
"Lets see? A dime less or layed off with nothing, thats pretty bad math. "fix it" on audits sounds like you might better leave before the Texas Rangers ask about your "fix it" answers!"
I don't break the law. I also never stay unemployed very long. I am in demand, even in this economy.
"Really, they lie to you, put up with you, and you seem to have an over estimated opinion of your skills. I'm betting you know it all and set on your butt telling everyone how smart you are all the time...or you would have already left for one of those many places dieing for an employee like you!"
Not me. I know how to do my job. And, I'm damn good at it. Besides, what the hell would you know about my job? As I said before though, I would like to stay long enough to collect my rightfully-earned retirement.
"You've pretty much given us insight to some the problems TYC has had to deal with in changing the old culture at TYC. I'm sure your in demand....just not in the youth corrections field."
I'm in demand everywhere there are school-age children. You, on the other hand, appear to know nothing about TYC.
"Did I ask you if they do drug testing?"
You know, that stuff your smoking is affecting your short term memory.
Mr "in demand" you are the person that said they have lied to you for two years..... I didn't even say retaliate but in alot of instances the know all employee that always is right and can always leave and get a better job... Well most of the time he's not right and really can't get past the first interview anywhere else... In short he expertly works his way to the top of the layoff list should a reduction happen.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure your in demand and know all there is to know about how to do you job!
Odds are I've worked with you .... Or at least have had to deal with some of your expertise when it was decided NOT to do it your way!
3/18/2011 02:37:00 PM said:
ReplyDelete"Odds are I've worked with you .... Or at least have had to deal with some of your expertise when it was decided NOT to do it your way!"
So, your just another piece of dead wood they were finally able to unload? No wonder you're so bitter towards people who do a good job.
Shut it down grits.
ReplyDeleteNothing but personal BS lately
Oh no. Don't shut it down. I think everyone needs to see the kind of air-headed commentary that people make regarding the situation at TYC, even though they know absolutely nothing about TYC, or the people who work there.
ReplyDeleteYou want it shut down because you don't like the truth coming out about TYC. The entire state knows about TYC. You, like other TYC diehards, wants to fool the public that TYC has made changes for the better but we all know different. Stop the lies and pretending TYC is better and different. Don't shut this line down...shut TYC completely down! If you dislike the truth about TYC...go else where.
ReplyDelete"If you dislike the truth about TYC...go else where."
ReplyDelete3/19/2011 11:31:00 AM
You should follow your own advice.
The funny part is...old timers cover to the max...those in the middle are easily moved about and new comers are frustrated about the whole scum TYC is about. Old timers will hold, lawful or not for their retirements, while the others are left in the scum created by the old timers. TYC has not changed, just adapted to cover more for present day self created problems.
ReplyDeleteThis is an unfortunate situation that could have been avoided. TYC will eventually cease to exist. Karma is a bitch!
ReplyDelete