Monday, February 23, 2009

Pyote facility will downsize, TYC population will 'flat-line'

A couple of recent Texas Youth Commission stories deserve Grits readers attention. First, administrators plan to downsize, but not close the West Texas State School in Pyote, AP reports:

The West Texas State School in Pyote will likely downsize and focus on treatment. About 70 percent of the students in the juvenile prison have chemical dependency problems, officials said.

The Sunset Advisory Committee, a state agency created to eliminate waste, duplication and inefficiency in government, had called last year for the Pyote facility to be closed, citing difficulty in keeping the prison staffed and saying the closing would save $9 million.

Jim Hurley, a TYC spokesman, said Thursday the school's focus would be as a "smaller, more intense treatment facility." He also said the facility will focus on youths from West Texas instead of throughout the state.

"It's the only facility in West Texas," he said for a story in Friday's editions of the Odessa American. "We need a presence out there."

He could not say how many students would be moved from Pyote or how many jobs might be cut.

The facility now houses 84 youths and has 144 employees, 81 of them juvenile corrections officer.

Monahans Mayor David Cutbirth said he liked the idea of focusing on West Texas youths but was disappointed in the planned cuts. He had wanted to see an expansion at the state school about 15 miles west of Monahans.

Cutbirth said one reason given for closing the facility was a lack of available labor.

Meanwhile, the Legislative Budget Board has revised projections from last fall for an increase in TYC's youth prison population. Now they're predicting their numbers will "flat-line," the Statesman's Mike Ward reports:

From a Legislative Budget Board report:

“The residential population is expected to bed much lower than the population in previous fiscal years . . . Based on 2008 intakes, it is assumed (the Texas Youth Commission) will receive 2,169 intakes per year for fiscal years 2009 through 2014.”

That’s down from 2,994 in 2007, and even more in the previous years.

The Youth Commission now holds roughly half of the youths that it did before a sweeping reform bill in 2007, in the aftermath of a scandal over sex-abuse and an official cover-up.

58 comments:

Anonymous said...

Local news from Pyote staff indicates there will only be 48 youth in three dorms. All of security staff were fired; the warehouse and some at maintenance were fired. Two of the three psychologists were let go and now only two are in administration support. About 75 employees were given rif letters to be effective last day of March 09.

Anonymous said...

Yes, they gave employee awards for years of service and then walking papers, as thanks for your service; and good ridance. Typical TYC policy and routine. Once they get their use out of you...they stick it to you, with pleasure.

Anonymous said...

They claim this will be a 48 bed facility. They still haven't been funded past August 09. Without a laundry staff i wonder who will do the sheets or is this a new vocational program for the youth.

Survivor (for now) said...

Get your facts straight before posting. All of Security staff were not fired. We are also JCO staff and some of us are still here. All of the JCO III's and down were pretty much let go. Most of the JCO VI's were demoted to JCO V's and one was demoted to a JCO IV.

Anonymous said...

How can they let the laundry staf, warehouse and security go? If youth will really stay there, how do they get supplied? Why were JCO V1's demoted? It would be nice to have reliable information about all this. The gates will be open at all times? What is a picket, of Cherie's notes? Plase someone, provide real, actual information for us pending survivors?

Anonymous said...

Was any of the school geeks let go also at Pyote? How can they need full teacher loads wih few students? Anyone left in administration? How about the clinic nurses?

diogenes said...

I do know they RiFed the Chaplain and the Youth Rights Specialist. I heard the Asst Supt got RiFed as well, but he may have gotten a pre-preemptive transfer as he was filling in at Evins for a while now already. The Volunteer Services Coordinator left earlier and probably beat Austin to the punch. I'm still trying to figure out what I missed while I was out house hunting. I was lucky and got a transfer after the first RiF. I have no idea how the few remaining will make everything happen. Best wishes to them.

The relevant quotes from the EC's e-mail:

"The most significant impact will be to the West Texas State School. We are reducing its capacity to 48 beds for youth committed to TYC from the West region. The appropriate staff size for that population is 69, which means we will be reducing staff by about 110 positions. Due to fewer vacant positions at West Texas, 67 employees will be losing their jobs.

We are transforming the West Texas campus to a less restrictive, more treatment-oriented facility. Many of the buildings on campus will be closed, and we will operate only three dorms. There will be no pickets, security units, warehouse or gate. As a regional facility, the campus will focus on chemical dependency and abuse treatment since more than 70 percent of youth from the West region come to us with identified chemical dependency and/or abuse treatment needs. We will aggressively implement CoNEXTions and best treatment practices in this smaller setting and JCOs will become much more involved in the treatment of youth."

I don't know if this means they'll tear down the fence or just leave it hanging open.

The clinic is finally working on filling the nurse position that is supposed to coordinate information with everyone else involved in CoNextions, so I take that as a sign that what is left of WTSS will be safe for a while. Past history has shown that when the UTMB people start packing, its game over. When they settle in, things are safe for the next while.

I have no idea about what will happen with the school teachers, though I heard rumors some time back about some not getting contracts renewed.

Again, best wishes for everyone involved, survivors and RiFed. Hopefully the rest of the plan for WTSS will fall into place and this change will make sense.

Anonymous said...

Grits, thanks for the scoop on WTSS...have you heard any news about VFCA?

Anonymous said...

Please flush.

Anonymous said...

Where any of the Program Specialists Rif'd in Pyote?

Anonymous said...

Next Round of Cuts will be Friday on the 27th of Feb. They said it will be for Mart Complex the JCO Staff.It sounds like a Black Friday "not talking about race"Stay tuned for more RIF's

Jack Daniels said...

There was one Program Specialist that was demoted to a JCO VI. This was only a few days after he interviewed for the Director of Security position which he had been assigned the "Acting" role since last summer. Why in the hell would they even schedule interviews for a position that they knew would be eliminated?

Anonymous said...

Some of the typical TYC management schemes. Set up interviews, get folks hopes up really high, and then drop the bomb on them. Its a powerplay that most TYC administrators know how to play with great skill. Then they wonder why morale is always so low. Don't blame bad morale on the sex scandal....its management again...as always, really simple minded poor managers in TYC. And, sadly, its not over.

Anonymous said...

"We will also be eliminating another 15 positions from the Central Office. This move will involve at least two layoffs. Five additional positions from different areas of the agency will also be eliminated. All vacant positions are eliminated immediately. The reductions in force that affect current employees become effective March 31."


It's interesting that Cerie's announcement indicates that all vacant positions at Central office would be eliminated immediately, but there are still positions posted.

Anonymous said...

Mart has already been hit twice. Last Friday about 14 people got it. One trainer and the rest case managers if I'm not mistaken.
The way they go about handing out the bad news is particularly inhumane. A list is sent out and it is top secret until the last minute. Even some of the most rotten Ass. superintendents are uncomfortable with the way Austin is handling the RiFs.
It will be interesting to see what happens at WTSS. That facility was the only place to send kids from the far west Texas area. Obviously there will still be a need to committ youth to TYC. This will pose a problem for the parents of youth from the west Texas area, especially from El Paso. The majority are simply not able to make the 8 or more hour trip to the nearest facility. It seems like every decision management makes is short sighted and illogical. I've never seen such poor management. Their motto should be "the beatings will continue until morale improves" because that is how they operate. TYC has managed to run off or fire about every good employee they've ever had. TYC management is a model for how not to manage people.
With all of the firings taking place I have to wonder how much thought has been given to the future.
The fact remains that youth will still need to be sent to TYC and they will still need supervision, psychological services, group and school. In a few months, many of the youth on probation will re-offend and have to be sent somewhere. No one is going to want to committ them to the adult system and local facilities won't be equipped to handle serious offenders, and yes there will be serious offenders. I wonder how the five youth recently arrested for a beaing death in Houston will be tried. Maybe right now people want to keep all juvenile offenders in the community no matter what they do. That was already being done to a certain extent. In deed, the majority of youth sent to TYC had been given chance after chance after chance to succeed in he community. Many were given numerous extensions on their probation and some had had many charges refused and dismissed, all in an effort to keep them home. People don't seem to want to acknowledge that many of the reforms they've called for were standard practice at TYC.
Meanhile I am truly sorry for the employees at TYC. Admittedly there were some bad apples but the majority of them are just decent folks trying to make a living.

Anonymous said...

If all the facilities become treatment facilities what will be done with serious offenders? While it may be true that many juvenile offenders are arrested for proprty crimes it is also true that they are guilty of more serious crimes for which they have never been caught. Oh I forget, it doesn't matter, they still need to be out in the community.

Anonymous said...

I would like to be able to say that I have empathy for the TYC staff that are being RIF'd, but I believe that there was numerous warning signs via Grits and the newspapers that all of this was going to happen. In fact, I remember when all of this started a couple of years ago, and they talked about downsizing. Folks, I am sorry to say it, but you should have got the hell out of TYC long ago. Ray Charles can see the writing on the wall. For those of you waiting on your letter, GET OUT on your own terms, instead of being treated inhumane and being embarrased, for all the hard work you have done trying to rehabilitate the most difficult population of youth in the State of Texas. And don't forget to remember this when the polls open and you have to make a decision on who the next Governor will be.

Anonymous said...

If they are making Pyote a drug treatment facility that serves West Texas (read Amarillo-Lubbock-Midland,Odessa-El Paso-Abilene-San Angelo)it won't work out the way they envision. This area of the stte commits about 100 kids a year. I'll bet there's not 48 whose primary diagnosis is for said treatment. Plus, where do they get the professional personnel with drug treatment skills and expertise?

The "jobs program" in Pyote is on life support. Hang a "DNR" sign on the front door.

Anonymous said...

Its pretty obvious that this is TYC's way of downsizing, until the final doors close at Pyote. Again, fool the folks, employees and local citizes for awhile, then slam home that final nail in the coffin. At least they did get rid of some of the dead weight employees. Anyone who stays at West Texas-Pyote much longer is living in a dream world. Better make plans for another job soon

Anonymous said...

Is there a trainer left at Pyote?

Anonymous said...

Yes....Randy Foster survived John Garza was a staff who was given a RIF letter

Anonymous said...

Did the crippled lady in security also lose her job? Hope not.

Anonymous said...

insensitive are we?

West Texas Staff said...

The fact is that not one person who posts on these blogs knows for sure which facilities are closing and when. The same goes for our lovely media. By the way, I still haven't seen anything in the media about an escape that occurred last weekend where a youth was out for 12 hrs after the staff did a physical headcount and reported that all youth were accounted for. The youth was spotted around 2 am near Wal Mart by two employees who reported it to the ODS and he didn't take appropriate action. It wasn't until wake up call when the youth was discovered missing. If that had happened at West Texas, HEADLINE NEWS BABY! But back to my original point. Most of us at West Texas have been hanging in there knowing that there is a very good chance our facility will be closed. That's been the rumor for over two years now. There is also a chance that we may keep the facility open. None of you know for sure what our fate is so quit trying to bring our morale down. That's been done already by our own agency leaders. I can honestly say that our facility is the best facility in the agency and we do not have as many problems as other facilities do. Hell, Chuy Hinojosa never mentioned closing ERJC yet that facility has had more problems than lil ol West Texas has had in the past five years. Ask some of the youth, they'll tell you about how easy it is to get cocaine, marijuana and just about anything you need at Evins. We've never had a drug problem at West Texas nor were we ever investigated by the Justice Department. A couple of years ago, the members of the joint committee were invited to West Texas so they could see for themselves how well our facility is run yet none of them made the trip. I even offered to be Whitmire's designated driver so he could drink as much as he wanted without being cut off. Here's what I think about them, FTP! I apologize for ranting on and on but I had to get some of this off of my chest. West Texas is the best and most of us will be there until the end if there is one. Most of you don't have that type of dedication and you run at the first sign of trouble.

Anonymous said...

Sorry 12:19 I am a WTSS staff, and the morale has been bad for a long time and yea the drug problem, remember a few months ago when the smell of marijuana was around and some of the youth were drug tested. Come on!!!! What dedication? Staff go to work when the want, most of them late on a daily basis.

Anonymous said...

Good try 1219...but you're only fooling yourself. There are a few of us others at WTSS, who know the truth and don't duck our heads in the sand. We, at Pyote have had terrible problems and much was covered up with locals help. How can you truthfully hold your head up and be so dishonest, unless you are smoking something. Pretty much everyone now knows about Pyote and the real abusive history which continues on. Smoke on and enjoy your guillible self.

West Texas Staff said...

Look, I never said we didn't have our share of problems at WTSS. I was just pointing out that we do not have as many problems as some of our other facilities yet they have never been targeted for closure. The incident with the marijuana that happened several months ago? Come on!! That was one incident in a matter of how many months or years? I never stated that WTSS was perfect. Yes, we do have some staff that really don't give a damn, but most of us do and we come to work as needed and when needed. If you know the truth, then why don't you say something? If there is still abuse going on at WTSS, call this number, 1-866-477-8354. You should be abe to find it posted all over campus. Ask one of the kids, they'll give you the nuber as well. I am not being dishonest, you have your opinion and I have mine. I will hold my head up high because I know we have one of the best facilities in the agency. If you don't believe me, ask Wallace or Maria to send you down to Evins for about a week or two. You'll be begging to come home.

Anonymous said...

Take what crumbs they have left you, and be happy. All is well in TYC.

Big Ed said...

CAN'T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG? I heard a rumor that Cherie Townsend is going to send out an email on April 1, 2009 that says April Fools! You all still have jobs! Sorry guys, just wishful thinking.

Anonymous said...

Perhaps this is tyc attempt to do local community treatment, but if its managed by tyc it has a very high potential for failure. The tyc doing treatment, like real treatment, wouldn’t that be considered “breaking norms” for you people running tyc? I discovered a web site where photo’s of west texas state school’s most prominent team playas are featured, Brookins and Hernandez, they look like punks, to use a state boy term. These guys just look like the type that would love to get their hands on young boys who can’t say no. This is what you tyc Human Resource people hire? What is the criteria to be a team playa manager at tyc, I’m guessing a bachelors degree in something useless, no skill sets, and a deep desire to molest and abuse children? The management issues of this 120 year old child abuse state agency is born out of the good ol boys of Coryell county and their protectors in Austin. Hernandez looks like the white protestant priest in gatesville 1975 that would molest boys until he was replaced by a black protestant priest who only molested the black boys. With all the alleged black on white racism in tyc today, one could wonder if Brookins only molested black boys or was he an equal opportunity pedophile and went for white boys and Spanish boys as well? I suppose you would have to be a team playa to know that answer.



I can rationalize that child molesters are sick human beings even in light of some cultures thinking it’s perfectly ok to act out in this way. Perhaps these Hernandez and Bookins people are from cultures, similar to the red neck culture of Coryell county, that believe its normal for adults to abuse and molest children. Yet, I still to this day can’t understand the mentality that goes into protecting these child molesters, these extreme low life’s, the team playas, who cover for these people who rape the children in their custody. The Austin tyc people and the politicians and their supporters like this group of presumed pedophile protectors in a previous post that call themselves the Dallas initiative. What is it that these protectors of pedophiles are thinking? Is it as simple as just covering up for their good buddy or could they be child molesters themselves and feel obligated to protect their fellow child molesters? What’s up with the politicians supporting the free for all pedophilia that tyc offers its team playas. It has always, 34 years, seemed to me that you tyc people act like it’s a job benefit like health insurance, 401k, and free for all acts of pedophilia and child abuse on the throw away children of Texas. I just don’t get it, perhaps you Dallas initiative people could explain to me what motivates you people to protect pedophiles.



I would really like to know what is it about you team playas, your culture, your upbringing, your family tree, that makes you people, abuse and molest children and cover for each other. I think any human being that has ever had to deal with you people, especially the helpless children locked up in YOUR CARE, you people owe us an explanation for the atrocities you pos's perpetrated on us. I would also like to know why our politicians in Austin continue to provide state sponsored employment based on a management style that is conducive in attracting these pedophiles.





Stop feeding/funding the tyc monster.

Start feeding/funding the community based programs.

Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s

Anonymous said...

Sheldon, I can always tell it's you within the first 4 lines of text. Get over the past dude.

Management does still take care of it's own at TYC. At the WTSS rif, one Program Administrator position was eliminated. However he was demoted / offered a JCO 6 position and a JCO 6 was rif'ed instead. I can't find in policy where you can bump people in other positions during a rif and save yourself by taking their job.

Anonymous said...

Surely you must know that the WTSS-Pyote management team is part of the old'sex abuse days management team. No, they are not all gone, as some would pretend. And yes, they will manipulate as always to cover for and promote their team players, even if good staff must be sacrificed to protect the main, but sorry structure. Same old TYC, some different faces, more of the same SOS.

Anonymous said...

One just transferred to CPS and acted as though she tried to stop the abuses. She was part of the cover-up and she hired ex-sex-offenders. WAKE UP. She finally got the axe, after creating many problems at WT.

Anonymous said...

0157...Did you see the local paper(disaster itself), about her? She stated WTSS was closed because there was no treatment; then she stated justing 'warehousing youth' WAS TREATMENT at West Texas! That is about correct. Thats is what management thought treatment was....warehousing...and abuse. More abusers gone. Thanks. Shes gone. Thanks even more.

Anonymous said...

12:19am - Similar situation at our favorite East Texas unit. Staff finally figured out that 3 youth were unaccounted for and a staff member called 911. I bet that person gets the axe for involving law enforcement in the TYC chaos.

Anonymous said...

Glad she's one. She appeared on TV three times during the scandal and cried for the public's sympathy. "Gee, we all work so hard at West Texas and no one abuses kids. Its all made up." When the truth finally came out, she was forced to leave, tears and all!

Anonymous said...

I am appalled at the comments about the lady from West Texas. I personally think that whoever is writing these must have a big axe to grind. This woman did everything she could for West Texas and its employees. She contacted Senators and Representatives on a daily basis. She cared for the youth and the staff. Her heart broke for these people. She left TYC on her own. She was not forced out at the time, but probably would have been riffed if she had stayed. So many others were.

Opinions are just that. I really wish you would not use this blog to criticize people. That is not its intent and it hurts innocent people.

Anonymous said...

Randy Chance, quit acting like you are multiple bloggers - those of us who know you know better. It makes me sick when I see your posts and you're trying to make yourself look like some kind of TYC hero or something. Those of us who know the REAL you know that you wrote your so-called book on state time when you should have been investigating alleged mistreatment cases. You don't need to worry about WTSS anymore so why do you insist on continuing to try and hurt innocent people? Did you just not get enough attention when you worked (or whatever it was you did) here?

Anonymous said...

526...I was under the impression that full names were not allowed on these posts, however, since you appear to have been exposed by the author and feel a need to express yourself, allow me to say this. I know from personal experience that the author was highly recommended by his bosses in Austin. I also know he was a thorn in the side of West Texas management - which was verified that he should have been. He brought badly needed attention to WT's management problems, and the sex abuse scandal probably would not have occured, had he remained at WT for a few more months. Aftet he retired, things at WT really exploded, some by management. I also know he was asked to come back to his position, after retirement, by his Austin boss; even though the local administration did not want his job position filled. I wonder why? You need to check your facts, before you start your lying, or simply being misinformed.

Anonymous said...

8:04, You are wrong, he did write the book on state time! He could never be found on campus, but anyone working there at that time, knew his favorite lunch time parking space for his favorite cold beverage and we all knew it wasn't tea! He was never there for the youth, he was too busy getting his wife and family to a shelter during a tornadon season, forget the poor youth and he was DOS. He should have been let go then. If his Austin boss had ever kept tabs on him, instead of giving his version of accounts any validation, he/she would have known why management and employees did not care for him. He was the joke of the campus! Still has no respect of those working back then! Doesn't speak well of Austin bosses, IMO.

Anonymous said...

WOW 1056? Hey, I also knew Randy and worked with him for several years. I think I and many other employees can truthfully say your post is untruthful. Not sure what your motive is here, but I do know that you just posted a bunch of lies about one of the few employees that ever really helped youth at West Texas State School.

Anonymous said...

Well, some of you need to attend church more, obviously. I have mused these posts and I, also served the youth of the Pyote facility for a few years. 1056 /I think I have figured who you are. I remember from your attitude and past comments about 'throwing stuff on our returning Vietnam veterans', and bragging about your hippy years; yes...you should have stayed in California. Texas does not need you, nor does the youth. You are and were a poor example for youth or any real American. Take your arrogance and deception and crawl back to your hole. I hope each time your fingers touched a key as you made up false posts, you thought about the Ten Commandments.

Anonymous said...

I didn't like the timing of the release of Randy's book, but, I must admit it was mostly accurate. I was there and well aware that most of what he reported was indeed correct. Some may wish to discredit his book, but be sincere with yourself - it was the right thing to do; and it apparantly accomplished Randy's goal...it caused the reform of TYC.

Anonymous said...

12:00 and 12:49, I posted nothing but the truth and I personally witnessed what I stated. I don't know who either of you are but I will not back down from my statements. Get a life, no one is perfect, including the person who wrote the book. If you had worked with him, you would know it's fact!

Anonymous said...

Hey 1056...If I remember right, and I do, YOU were the joke of the campus; and now I can truthfully state...no one should believed anything you post. Your lies are just piling up on you. So sad, I had a higher picture of you before you started this line of lies and deception to other posters. California is better off with you out of their hair. You may need counselling!

Anonymous said...

00655// - I agree with you , the book was fact. It documented much that is just now being exposed by other sources.

Anonymous said...

2:41, so we can credit the "reform" of TYC to Randy's book? I was wondering who would get the credit for what TYC is today. Lo and behold, it's Randy!!

I doubt that Randy was in the right place at the right time to really make a difference here, but if he was, he failed. Either way, his book is probably inconsequential.

XTYC

Anonymous said...

XTYC...It appears that you liked it under the 'old TYC - Harris' w/all its coruption. Were you part of the problem also? Abuse any youth? How many? Good your an EX.

Anonymous said...

Those of you defending the author of raped by the state, please dignify your defense by responding to why he never reported the abuse at WTSS while he was gainfully employed by TYC?

Could it be that he waited to insure his retirement checks hit his bank monthly and on time?

It's my understanding that people who were gainfully employed were the ones that reported the abuse, not him! He didn't have the gumption to step up to the plate, IMO.

The reform was a result of the sexual scandal by the two dispicable administrators at WTSS and the alleged coverup by the powers in Austin. It sent the agency spinning into depths that were unknown to most, POLITICS. This is the reason the two are still out there in the free, shouldn't that be more of a concern than defending a disgruntled retiree or giving him the honor of being TYC's savior?

Anonymous said...

//1014// - Get the facts straight. The book was released in 2004, I believe. The sex scandal acted as the 'spark' that brought the book to the Dallas News and Texas Monthly, and their exposes. Ask Senator Hinosoja and the ACLU why they used the book and even brought it to the senate floor, using some quotes, I believe. The abuses were known TYC wide far before the sex scandal...just kept quiet by TYC administration. Check the on-line Dallas News reports about the time line of the entire venture, if you want. I followed the time line and it appears to be accurate iaw-Dallas Reporters.

Anonymous said...

You will do and say anything to promote your book. Have at it, you were always a legend in your own mind anyway!!!

Anonymous said...

Folks, I ran into Randy by chance today! He was looking extra good, happy, in a great mood, didn't know what posting was about on this blog, and was the perfect example of 'life after TYC'. He is on his third book now and stated "What is TYC?' I thought that was rather funny. Good luck to him and geeeee....I hope TYC turns out OK. He seemed far past his involvment with the commission and happy as a lark. He's into horses now and his grandchildren and hopes all ex/present-TYC'ers are doing good. Hail America...best to you all;.. Go Randy.

Anonymous said...

Wow, 9:12. I don't think I deserved that.

Just because media outlets and politicians used that book to help pile on TYC doesn't mean the book brought the "reform" of TYC. You want to prove the book by media reports, then prove media reports by the book, and you can't do it.

I have always been surprised Randy wants to admit that as the unit's Inspector General he was unable or unwilling to stop all of the abuse he alleges he was aware of. There was no excuse for not getting something done about it. Every IG knew how to go up and out if he/she needed to.

XTYC

Anonymous said...

Up and out??? Do you not understand the governor's office, att'y generals office, TYC board and US Attny Gen's office is above and beyond? Do you have a learning disability?

Anonymous said...

It also doesn't mean that "all" in that book was truth!

Anonymous said...

As of yesterday there is NO security people at WTSS at all....period. Is that even legal? Someone is going to get hurt. I hope to God it's not my husband....he gives a damn. The author of this blog used to work with my husband in Kyle TX....so you know he is a damn good, caring employee. We are pulling out of Pecos after 3 years (come May).
MDP

Anonymous said...

There are currently 42 students housed in 2 dorms.
Iraan ISD is doing a horrible job with the education Dept....don't even get me started....and hopes were so high when they took over the Ed. Dept....it's sad.
MDP

Anonymous said...

What? People are suprised? Come on, Ms. Harris down in Sheffield did the same thing.