Thursday, September 29, 2016

On white people's role in addressing race and police violence

A Dallas Morning News staff editorial last week touted blogger Awesomely Luvvie's platitudinous clickbait suggestions for what white people should do to address racism and police brutality in America. Part of her post I very much agreed with, but not particularly the parts they quoted. For example:
White people, I’m talking to you. THIS. IS. YOUR. PROBLEM. TO. FIX. Y’all got some work to do, because this system that y’all keep on privileging from, you’ve got to help us dismantle it. Because those of us who are Black and Brown. We have tried. You created this robot, and it is yours to deactivate. My skinfolk don’t have the passcode. This is your monster to slay.
Bingo! That's exactly right. We can't expect poor, disenfranchised people, the formerly incarcerated, the victims of systemic discrimination, to by themselves overturn a system based on discrimination against them unless we expect it to be done through violent revolution, a prospect which seems as unwise as its success seems unlikely.

This stuff only changes if white folks pitch in and do some heavy lifting, which is why I couldn't disagree more with the DMN's very first suggestion, paraphrasing Ms. Luvvie: "Hear how black people feel and do not debate it."

Really? Just, white people shut up?  How's that going to help, given that the only white folks who will comply with that demand are allies, not critics? It's certainly not reflective of a dialogue. And in fairness, that overstates what the blogger said by omitting the preceding sentence: "Take some time to listen to what Black people are saying. Hear how we feel, and do not debate it." She's not saying never engage in conversation, just that white folks should listen and think for "some time" before speaking. Another item references moments "When you don’t have the words to speak up," but that implies speaking up may still be appropriate when the words arrive.

Regardless, this suggestion brings to mind three contrarian thoughts. First, as far as I'm concerned, the most respectful sort of listening is active listening which engages the discussion as a participant. People generally don't learn as much from lectures by others as we do from conversations with them.

Second, if I'm being asked not to debate your "feelings," that's one thing. You're after all entitled to them. If you're sad, I can't convince you you're happy and it'd be pointless to try. But if your feelings stray into the public policy realm - for instance, on the question of "what's the best way to reduce police violence against unarmed citizens?" - what you say rightly may be debated, regardless of one's feelings. That's supposedly how the democratic system ferrets out error, which Thomas Jefferson said may be tolerated because reason remains free to combat it. Anyway, since when do newspapers call for less debate?!

Third, and perhaps most importantly, the main thing the blogger wants white people to hear about is black folks' fear: "Because there is a trauma that goes from your head to your toes that cannot be explained but it is there. We carry it with us everyday. The way our heart quickens when we see a cop, even if they’re just walking by us. The way it feels when we watch our men and boys leave the house, unsure of whether they will walk through that door at the end of the day."

I'm willing to listen to fearful folks but that doesn't mean their requests must be honored until their fears are resolved, just as a police officer's fears at a traffic stop can't be completely determinative. Indeed, it was crime victims' fear, including black crime victims, which drove mass incarceration, the drug war, militarization of police, and all of the tuff-on-crime policies the Black Lives Matter movement today decries. Grits sees few prospects for a long-term, stable outcome on these questions if the public is only ever offered competing fear-based ideologies with so little room for compromise, especially when they're presented as things which cannot be debated.

Yes, these are difficult problems. But they're not insoluble. And they're not so painful they cannot be discussed nor debated. In the end, to find solutions will require everyone involved to face their fears, not just reflexively seek to enshrine them into statute.

27 comments:

Phelps said...

The problem she's complaining about is white people fixing the problem instead of black people.

Black men are 7 times more likely than any other race to commit a murder in America. Black men are 8 times more likely to commit armed robbery. These rates do not go away by controlling for any socioeconomic factors. The most prominent correlation to crime in a location in America is the racial makeup of the inhabitants. That's fact.

There are two ways to deal with this fact. Black people can deal with it by removing the acceptance of criminality in black culture, or white people can deal with it by sending the cops to lock up the criminals.

If you want white people to deal with black people's problems, this is what that solution looks like.

Make your choice, black people.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Phelps. I've been thinking for some time that this whole police war against African Americans was a false media driven narrative that morphed into a power play by the BLM movement. Fighting crime is not unlike firefighting. You put the water where the fire is. For too long, the "fire" i.e, high crime rates, has been disproportionately in the African American community. One with any modicum of common sense would realize that because of this unfortunate circumstance most police attention and encounters with criminals will likely occur in these high crime areas. Unfortunately, sometimes you do have mistakes and poor judgment when it comes to escalation of force and it leads to tragic outcomes. But my suspicion is that the degree of the media frenzy occasioned by these recent police shooting incidents greatly over-exaggerates the real nature and extent of the problem. At the same time, the media frenzy does fuel a paranoid feeling in the minds of many black citizens that they are oppressed by the police (as evidenced by some of the comments quoted in this post by GFB) which is likely not justified based upon objective analysis. Nevertheless, the BLM movement has been all too quick to push for anarchy and a power vacuum which I'm sure they would be all too willing to step into if given the opportunity. At any rate, I think the black community may soon be approaching a time when tough decisions will have to be made on THEIR part. Do they want to reject police protection in their communities which will, in turn, increase the level of black on black crime to even greater levels? Or, as you put it, would they rather hold black criminals accountable for their actions and choices and work with law enforcement (instead of against them) in a effort to resolve the challenging task of reducing black on black crime and violence.

Anonymous said...

You two kill me...are you cops??? I think that what got the BLM movement going has been all do the videos of police clearly murdering unarmed African American citizens. And you think the black people are wrong for wanting to protest that? They aren't calling for the police to be disbanded. They want the police shooting of unarmed black men to stop. Is that too much to ask for is that an unarmed citizen to not be gunned down by the police????? If it was one of your children on video getting gunned down by a cop how would you really react? By the way I am white in case you are wondering.

Phelps said...

All of the videos that have actually caused riots showed nothing on the sort. On the videos that did show police misconduct, the response has been silence.

I don't know which two, but if you are talking about me and Grits, both of our blogs are full of posts of us being critical of police responses, including against black and white perps. (It should really be White Lives Matter, because white people get shot more often, incident per incident, than black people do.)

I tell you exactly how I would react if a cop shot my child -- I would go and burn down a Foot Locker, steal a television and some hair extensions, beat up a reporter or two, and then go randomly attack people based on their skin color. Is that the answer you are looking for?

Anonymous said...

What a real 'hands up, don't shoot' event looks like.

Ask yourself one question, what would be happening in the cities right now if Lavoy Finicum...

...was black.

http://freenorthcarolina.blogspot.com/2016/09/forensic-analysis-of-murder-of-lavoy.html

Anonymous said...

Lol..yeah Phelps..that is the exacly the white racist response I would have expected from someone like you. That you for coming through

Anonymous said...

Now Phelps...how about actually giving an intelligent response to my post. Is it too much to ask and expect that the police to not shoot unarmed African Americans in this country? And again..what would you do if the police gunned down you unarmed child in the street? Please...an intelligent response this time ......

Michael said...

I agree w/ Phelps and 2:40PM.

Anonymous said...

Have another sip of the koolaid Michael...

Gunny Thompson said...

Can we talk about solutions! In the words of My Dear Sister, Fannie Lou Hamer: I'm sick and Tired of Being Sick and Tired.)

There is a fixation against Black Folks having weapons. However, there doesn't seem to be a problem with non-Blacks with weapons exercising their Second Amendment rights, that are denied to the Black community. The narrative is that he had a weapon or he was unarmed when assassinated by Racist Government Brown Shirts, which means in code: It doesn't matter that he was armed or not, what matters is that a Fascist Government Brown Shirt felt threatened.

Because currently there are no official records are able to provide correct and unbiased reports that can determine if there are more non-Blacks assassinated by Brown Shirts than Blacks, whatever comments made on the matter is conjecture. In a recent report, the FBI has alleged that it is/will develop and maintain records of police related matters of encounters with citizens.

In this the 21st Gentry, why are we concerned with which community suffer most from a Fascist government? Our objective must be to fight for equal protection of the law. End para-military unions, enforce residency requirements that Brown Shirts must live in the jurisdiction of their employer Require that their terms of appointment be limited to three-two years terms, which, unless, they are entitled to promotion to the rank of sergeants. Eliminate the immunity of prosecutors, judges and Brown Shirts, and require that they are subjected to the Death Penalty in cases of assassinations of citizens.

Additionally, by removing puppets from our government. we, as a community can change this!! Just Saying!

JJ said...

Well, if this article said "Black people, listen up. This is your problem..." The outcry would be completely different.

Anonymous said...

The problem in Texas is too many guns..too many good ole boys ...too many rednecks..and the fact that most white people down here haven't figured out that the civil war is over and that they lost. Change is coming and you need to accept it

Anonymous said...

So, what happens when a black cop shoots a black person. Is that racist? Is that something white people have to fix?

9/29 @ 5:58PM, actually, factions of the BLM movement are in fact calling for the police to be disbanded claiming black communities can and will police themselves.

Anonymous said...

Amen 7:39

Anonymous said...

First we will have to define "fix." I'd like it if "fix" meant that there is only one race--the human race. I'd like it if we could move from color to character. Maybe then we could finally understand that excessive police force and brutality are NOT race problems--they are attitude problems. It's about respect not race. And here's how respect (and love) works: you give it, you get it--in that order.

Phelps said...

You can call me racist all you want -- that lost its sting ages ago, and just tell me that you are just another ignorant name caller with no interest but playing "group therapy" in the streets.

So, go ahead, call me racist. In the mean time, black people will still be living in the most crime ridden neighborhoods, be the most likely to be killed (almost certainly by another black person), the most likely to be robbed (by another black person) and have the lowest workforce participation rates.

But, you know, I have to put up with being called racist.

Do you think that is a fair trade? If you don't, you have to do something about it, because it's not my problem to fix.

Anonymous said...

Thanks, Grits, for challenging us to differentiate between "debate" and "dialogue" and the pros and cons of each in this matter. Thoughtful as usual.

Anonymous said...

Phelps...simple answer dude. NO unarmed American Citizen..black, hispanic or white..deserves to be gunned down by the police. Are you so hate driven that you can't even agree with a statement like that? Any racist can post garbage...but only a intelligent person can help solve problems.

Phelps said...

Are you so stupid that you can't see a situation where an unarmed person is still a lethal threat?

Michael Brown -- broke the skull of the cop he was hitting and tried to get the cop's gun (which would make him armed)

Keith Scott -- ARMED with a gun, which was in his hand, cocked, and the safety was off. The book story is bullshit, and you know it.

Alfred Olango -- used an ecig vape to simulate a gun barrel, pointing it at the cops like it was a gun (which looks like suicide by cop to me). How are the cops supposed to know if that metal tube pointing at them is a gun barrel or not?

Also, note the cases that did NOT cause riots that were bad shoots -- Walter Scott, shot in the back on video: BLM doesn't care. Terrence Crutcher in OKC -- BLM doesn't care. And what about white people who ARE shot with their hands up, on video, like LaVoy Finicum? BLM really means "White Lives Don't Matter".

Anonymous said...

You are indeed laugable...hate only sees what hate wants to. Good day!

Gunny Thompson said...

JJ @ 04:oo a.m.: To your post, it is a problem that affect Black Folks. No longer do we need others to speak for us.

Phelps @ 10:28 AM: No disrespect to you, but is it necessary to label bloggers as "Stupid." If we are going to address conditions that affect all communities at least we can be respectfully. If you were offended by someone calling you a racist, what did you do about it? If you know that you are not a racist, did you ask why that person why you were called an offensive term? An better understanding is the best thing in the world to resolving unnecessary conflicts.

Moreover, In forming your opinions, I hope you have not relied solely on Government controlled media without your independent research. If so, you will never get the complete and true facts.

Lastly, Phelps, where do you get your stats and what is your solution? Just Saying!!

Anonymous said...

Phelps is a lost cause...

Phelps said...

I'm not offended at being called racist anymore. It's an empty word that is only used by actual racists against white people. I don't care what the Black Klan has to say about me. I don't ask why they say it -- I know it is because they think that I am white and it will make me shut up and stop calling their stupid ideas stupid. It's the verbal "I win" button, and it doesn't work on me.

I don't need to rely on the media -- I grew up in black neighborhoods, and I've had black neighbors and white neighbors. I've seen the problem with my own eyes. As to the solution, the solution is to arm old black men and old black women with guns, and support them when they defend themselves from savages and thugs. We don't need fewer criminals being shot -- we need more criminals being shot by their victims rather than the police.

Anonymous said...

wow..what a true nutcase Phelps is...sad. He just avoids answering questions in a logical and intelligent manner.

Anonymous said...

I tend to agree w/ Phelps.

Anonymous said...

Good...another nutcase then

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