Thursday, December 20, 2007

Third time a charm? New TYC conservator appointed

The Governor's first choices turned him down, but the Texas Youth Commission finally has a new conservator, Richard Nedelkoff, the third to hold the position since the agency was placed under conservatorship last March.

Welcome aboard, sir, y buena suerte! You've got a tough job ahead of you, and you're going to need all the luck, and help, you can get.

On the upside, it's not like you've got big shoes to fill. The Governor inexplicably declared in an AP story announcing the decision ("Former Bush aide chosen to lead TYC," Dec. 19) that:
"Impeccable leadership by conservators of TYC has helped Texas make great strides in righting a very troubled agency," said Perry. "Richard's experience and expertise in juvenile and criminal justice make him the right person to finish the job at TYC."
Uh, excuse me? "Impeccable"? Do the the Governor's PR people own a dictionary? The last two conservators took a broken agency and transformed it into a crippled one. TYC has been so mismanaged since March that the New York Times editorialized Texas should "raze" the agency and "start over"! That ignominious record, I'd suggest, cannot be wiped away with a pat on the back and a press release declaring "Heckuva job, Brownie!"

On the other hand, other experts in the juvenile justice arena suggested that Nedelkoff may be, as UNLV Professor Bill Bush declared in Grits' comments, an:
Interesting choice, and extremely well qualified for the job. Someone who knows a lot about juvenile justice and probation, knows how to handle budgets, and, it appears, an experienced fundraiser who may be able to attract some much needed federal and private funds to TYC.

The place he was working until today, Eckerd Youth Alternatives, is pretty highly respected nonprofit in Florida, which ran highly touted youth programs, and its founders were opponents of the get tough philosophy.
"I view this as a real game-changer," concluded Bush, "and it will be interesting to see what he does. At least Gov Perry has given us someone who can be taken seriously." Similarly, Dr. Barry Krisberg, president of the National Council on Crime and Delinquency, told the Dallas News ("New conservator brings long-term outlook for Texas Youth Commission," Dec. 20) that "this is great news ... He's a tough-minded guy. He's played in a few bureaucracies."

It sounds like Nedelkoff may plan to revive the "Blue Ribbon Panel" report that the last conservator round-filed immediately upon receipt. He told the Austin Statesman ("Governor appoints juvenile justice veteran as youth agency conservator," Dec. 20) he intends:
to moderate and participate in a high-stakes political debate over whether the state's most serious youth offenders and delinquents can ever be properly dealt with in the current system of far-flung prisons.

The system, which has had the support of the Legislature for more than a decade before scandal broke in March, has been criticized as untenable by some criminal justice experts.

"It's an appropriate debate that needs to be held to discuss a variety of options," Nedelkoff said Wednesday after Gov. Rick Perry announced that he was appointing Nedelkoff to the position, effective immediately. "There is the ideal world of having as many of these kids in communities as close as possible to where their families live, and there is the reality of the current facilities."
He also sounds much less antagonistic toward the idea of rehabilitation than the current TYC crew. According to Austin's KXAN-TV:
With 28 years of criminal justice experience, Nedelkoff said his first step is to organize the agency in a way to help the kids, not just detain them.

"Making sure that a kid who leaves a TYC program or facility is better than when they walked in," Nedelkoff said.
A former director of the Governor's Criminal Justice Division under both Bush and Perry, Nedelkoff ran the Bureau of Justice Assistance under President Bush for a while, giving him a perhaps unique background to assist soliciting federal funds. Indeed, at the end of the day if everything turns out as well as it possibly could, that experience may be the most important asset Mr. Needelkoff brings to the table.

After leaving the Bush Administration, he was for a while President of the Riga Solutions Group, a management consulting firm for criminal justice and human services operations at government agencies - though I've seen the name around occasionally, I don't know anything about that firm.

In addition, though I couldn't figure out a time frame for this slot in his resume', according to a press release announcing Nedelkoff's hiring at Eckerd:
In Florida , he was the Executive Director of the Florida Network of Youth and Family Services, which is a statewide coalition of over 30 non-profit and governmental organizations that provide services to truant, runaway and troubled children in 100 sites across Florida . He was also appointed by the Florida Secretary of Juvenile Justice to manage the largest juvenile justice service district in Florida .
Since May, Nedelkoff has been "chief operating officer for Eckerd Youth Alternatives in Clearwater, Fla., a private not-for-profit organization that serves at-risk youths through residential and community-based programs in 10 states." Like Ed Owens before him, Nedelkoff considers "conservator" a part-time job; he will stay on at Florida-based Eckerd as COO and draw a paycheck while he is TYC conservator.

You have to wonder if this mess can actually be fixed on a part-time basis? Perhaps the last two, short-timers who held the conservator's slot whispered into Nedelkoff's ear, "Don't quit your day job." Certainly nobody's lasted too long in that gig so far.

One potential conflict of interest not reported in initial press accounts: Eckerd is one of the private contractors competing to take over TYC's role housing young offenders (10-13 year olds), and Nedelkoff personally was involved this summer in soliciting the Texas contract, which would have been the company's first in the state.

For that reason, I really question whether it's appropriate for Mr. Nedelkoff to stay on at Eckerd while he does this job unless the nonprofit intends to withdraw its bid to house Texas youth. If Eckerd is competing for contracts, at a minimum it creates an overwhelming appearance of conflict.

If I had to offer one piece of advice to the new conservator, it would be that the major lesson of the last two conservators is how severely they undervalued their employees. Jay Kimbrough came in and fired dozens of people who had nothing to do with the agency's scandals, then under Ed Owens TDCJ cronies filled high-paying management jobs and newly created bureaucratic positions, while front-line employees worked double shifts and suffered retaliation for complaining about unsafe work conditions. I've never seen nor heard of a government agency that's so alienated its staff, who are now leaving the agency in droves: In the last fiscal year, TYC lost half again as many old employees as it has hired new ones.

The best way to change the anti-employee culture in TYC management would be to appoint a competent, permanent commissioner as soon as possible next year. Acting executive director Dimitria Pope has been the enthusiastic instrument of misguided policies under Kimbrough and Owens, and within the agency has almost become like a brand name identified with the Governor's two failed conservator appointments. Find her a soft place to land (perhaps a job in another state with Eckerd?), then get somebody in that slot who's independent and competent with experience in juvenile justice, and you'll go a long way toward restoring confidence in the agency among its employees. From a management perspective, that must be your first concern.

RELATED RECENT GRITS POSTS:

210 comments:

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Anonymous said...

Grits,
I hadn't realized Nedelkoff was staying on at Eckerd. Could be, as you say, a potential conflict of interest, esp if Eckerd gets a contract from TYC.

But his initial statements only add to my guarded optimism overall.

BB

Anonymous said...

From your comments, we know where this guy has been and where he is now.

I wonder what he has done!

Perry is probably lucky to find anyone willing to take on the TYC job. This guy doesn't look too promising to me. He will be in my spotlight and everyone else's until Ms. Pope leaves.

Anonymous said...

He is not as "talented" as Perry wants him to be. He is a puppet and "fundraiser" man - that's all. There will be no changes at TYC because these kids have dollars over there heads. They are profit...and yet the agency has no money? Well, we do know they don't invest the money in quality hiring of the staff that work with the kids, JCO's and we do no they don't invest it in hiring investigators to invest the fraudenlent 225's, and we do no its not invested in maintenance or clothes for the kids and we do know its not invested well at all. Especially since I do KNOW that parents are court ordered to pay child support so they get all of this money and get all of these kids and yet nothing reflects it being used in the TYC system, staff or kids. So, he is no built up hero to me and the comment "impeccable" only gives assuarance that hell is wrapped up in that guy too.

Anonymous said...

Well, we know how her holiness feels about middle age white women. I wonder how she will do with a middle age white man. I wonder if this is just a figure head position or will he have power over the agency. I just hope he means what he was quoted as saying and will try to make the kids better coming out of TYC than there are now.....

Anonymous said...

I think we all need to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, though pessimism is understandable. I for one feel very confident.

This man is endorsed by national JJ experts, many of whom were on the Blue Ribbon Task Force. His quotes in the media have thus far demonstrate a modern vision for JJ and have been very encouraging.

He also seems to be a no-nonsense manager who understands the nature of bureacracies. TYC needs that.

I believe there is light at the end of this tunnel and it's not a train.

Anonymous said...

Unless Pope goes the experience employees will continue to leave and TYC's youth will suffer the consequences. Yesterday, another central office director with 19 years experience in TYC, announced her departure. The sad thing is that the TDCJ's "rejects" continue to bring substandard people on board. For the most part, the best ideas they have, is to say "well in TDCJ with did it this way." Well, go back to TDCJ. That is, if they take you back!

Anonymous said...

Unless he fires Pope, no single person with any intelligence is going to take him seriously or given him any respect. If he wants to earn it, he had better work for it. Being appointed by Perry is his biggest single red target for being incompetent. He's going to have to work hard to scrub that target off and disassociate himself from being "just another Perry puppett".

Horse feathers said...

J. H. C., Eckerd is an outdoor juvenile wilderness camp structure. They have facilities all over the Eastern Seaboard and the southeast. This individual has no idea what he is facing.

I do believe he deserves an opportunity to see what he can do with TYC, but I am afraid Texas backstabben politics will eat him alive. This guy is just another George, and Jeb yes man sent to Perry by his former boss.

Governor Perry can you, let Mr. Nedelkoff do what he has to do. Let him off a leesh so he can take care of business. Can you remove the Pope and let Nedelkoff clean house from the ground up.

If not Governor Perry, you'll just be stirring the pot till it boils over and blows up in your face again. Don't let Mr. Nedelkoff be a short term patch. In fact, since he did not cut the ties to Eckerd, I am sure he will light out of Texas like a JUNE BUG on Ms. Popes rear end if this horned toad BS continues in Texas juvenile justice. I give him, maybe eight months and then is back to Camp Eckerd.

Anonymous said...

I would bet that sometime in January, Ms. Pope will "gracefully" step down to spend more time with her family. That is what they always say when they have gotten the axe. Don't worry, she will find some other job where she can belittle and intimidate others.

Anonymous said...

Contract Care is coming to TYC via the new conservator.

To get the youth close to home the counties will be forced to deal with juvenile offenders with funding from the state. Most counties will hire contractors to do the job of dealing with juveniles since it is such a no win situation. At all levels the elected officials will be removed from the direct blame when Contract Care goes bad. It is so obvious the new guy is tied to contract care in a major way. What a conflict of interest, but this is Texas where that is not viewed as an immoral or unlawful act.

The first youth into contract care will be the 10 – 14 year olds. Many of these youth are special need youth with mental and emotional problems. I doubt the care they need, will ever be provided at the level required to make a real difference in their lives. Often family therapy is needed for the special need youth and family members.

The older youth will be handled as adults or be housed in special TYC units manned by TDCJ guards since the grant money is not there for this age segment of TYC youth. 16 and 17 year old youth will be contracted out to TDCJ.

In short, TYC is going the way of the dinosaur! There have been too many comments about TYC not being fixable. These comments are being made to soften the blow and slowly change thinking about the future of TYC. There is way too much tax money on the table for this to go down any other way than contract care!

The past two conservators did as they were required; the destroyed TYC. The new conservator is here to lead TYC into contract care to save the day. Before all is done the spin doctors will proclaim a major victory in the area of juvenile justice in Texas and call it a day. Perry was not misspeaking when he said the two previous Conservators were “impeccable leadership”. They both did exactly what Rick Perry wanted them to do which was to destroy TYC. There is nothing new, it is only Phase 3!

rage judicata said...

I would bet that sometime in January, Ms. Pope will "gracefully" step down to spend more time with her family. That is what they always say when they have gotten the axe. Don't worry, she will find some other job where she can belittle and intimidate others.

12/20/2007 02:00:00 PM


And who cares abotu the kids, as long as you stop getting belittled, right?

rage judicata said...

In light of all of the problems, I don't blame him a bit for keeping his day job.

I'm sure that it was one of his requirements for taking the job. If things start to go well, he can make the switch completely. If not, he can shift back to Florida and say he gave it a shot.

And I bet he'll work on it, but I wonder how much power they have given him. If their first choice turned them down because they weren't giving them enough power to actually fix the problems, does this mean that they did give Nedelkoff that authority, or as a condition for accepting the job without all of the necessary authority did he insist on keeping his Eckerd job?

Can't blame him either way, I'm just curious as to how much power he'll have to make the changes that have been recommended and that have worked well in Missouri.

Anonymous said...

Same old whiners. Give the man time to work. All you folk do it bitch here. Grits where is the substance?

He was not appointed with the consent of any Blue Ribbon folk. They and you here are trying to push them back into the mix. They are done. Missouri is not Texas. Never will be. Start telling the truth about Missouri....Good model yes...Did they create it overnight? No they did not.

What you are seeing is a model 25 years in the works. Unfair to compare the two. It is more than small units and more staff. Get back to the true issues people.

Anonymous said...

Conflict of interest? Lack of authority to deal effectively with Dementia? Bush "yes" man? No balls? Third choice for the job? Just another Perry puppet? Benefit of the doubt? Short term patch? What has he done? Will only last eight months? And the beat goes on. May God have mercy on our souls!

dt said...

Typical goodhair B.S.

There were conflicts of interest when Eckerd bid for Kerrville. And there won't be conflicts now?

This is pure B.S.

Anonymous said...

Give the guy a chance. He has over 25 years of experience working for republicans and democrats and when he was confirmed in Washington people on both sides of the aisle sang his praises. Plus he has been a detention center manager and a line worker - he's been in the trenches. Sounds like he has some positive ideas regarding treatment. Give the guy a chance.

Anonymous said...

If he dismisses Pope for Racial statements and fiscal mismanagement, no plan nor clue of how to run an agency yes I will give him a chance. But, he has more than enough ammunition to send her packing as well as the one who violated a court order and still has his job today. Lets see what he does!!!

Anonymous said...

I agree we should hold our thoughts until we see what he can or does. Lets not throw him out before he even walks thru the doorway. Hopefully he will read grits and listen to our comments if we are not just bashing him before he even says hello TYC.

I do think believe he is the one that will open the door to contract care and that TYC will be downsized to just a handful of facilities. It all points in that direction now more than ever.
Seems like this has been in the works since last May. But we have to wait and see what our future brings. I say, just keep your eyes and ears open and a plan for our new future elsewhere.

Pray we get some relief from this mess we are in now. I am wondering why our current leader has not commented on him coming aboard? That racial statement she made certanily has not been keeping her busy. Seems that "white women" deal has just went away. Go figure

Anonymous said...

hey 7:27,

quit posting that libelous crap. (if you don't understand what that term means, go look it up). Don't abuse this forum. This is the only outlet that we employees have to express ourselves. Please don't ruin it for us.

Every time one of us sinks to a low level, we reinforce the notion that we are not to be valued. Don't drag the rest of us down with you.

Anonymous said...

Much to do about nothing! This is the same game just a different player. The main problem at TYC is staffing! No TYC staff then no programming. How easy does it get? After all that has been done to the people who worked at TYC, who in their right mind would want to work there? One of the first things you learn in business psychology is how people think their employer feels and thinks about them is more important than pay! Treat employees like you think they are the enemy and you will not have a viable work force. Belittle your workers and again you will have no viable work force. TYC has operated for years on the “Management by Intimation Model” which was a major failure in the 80’s costing many Fortune 500 companies millions of dollars. They eroded their experienced employee base and made it very difficult to hire dedicated replacements. It often took many years to rebuild after the “Management by Intimation Model” gutted the company.

The bottom line is that the staff is the primary concern at TYC! If the people working at TYC do not feel valued then they will live down to the expectations of their leaders. People who are in constant fear for their jobs cannot function at their full potential. People who are treated unfairly by local supervisors become disillusioned and angry. How can you even begin to think employees who are victims of long term abuse will not possibly abuse the youth in their care.

If the people working with the youth in TYC are not happy and secure in their jobs any program you implement will fail. It makes no difference if it is the best program in the world it will fail if the staff is not treated with respect and dignity. Respect and dignity were two words missing from the TYC management vocabulary unless it applied to them! Delivery of service only happens, if the staff working with the youth has their heart in the program. Fear and intimidation will never work!

If you care about the TYC youth then you had better care about the TYC staff! To date, all that has happened is TYC administration has angered and humiliated hundreds of TYC staff. Many have left never to return. How many millions of dollars in training and experience have been squandered, all to the determent of the TYC youth?

FTM

Anonymous said...

12:20 your right on the money! I have said it over and over, take care of the staff and the rest will take care of itself.

That is exactly how most of us feel. We are not worth anything to CO and with the at will crap, that just said, we can replace you at the drop of hat. Well that hat is not finding many heads to fit these days.

Anonymous said...

We're screwed. He looks like a deer caught in the headlights of an oncoming hummer driven by Whitmire.

This can't possibly be a part time job to reform TYC. Hell, he's just filling a vacant slot, Pope (i.e. hummer) will continue to steer this wreck until it is beyond repair.

Anonymous said...

7:58 p.m./12-20, you hit the nail on the head. TYC needs to put these two key words in their vocabulary and treat staff with the dignity and respect they are worthy of. Instead of allowing superintendents to tell staff that if they can't get on the bus then they need to go on down the road and find something else. Now that they have been relieved of some of their authority; they are attempting to intimidate employees into getting what they want by embarassing employees in meetings or before their peers and its NOT GOING TO WORK, arm twisting is a personal foul and will not be tolerated. They are also at will employees and subject to following policy, law and procedure just the like the rest of us!! Some of these superintendents suffer from paranoia, low self-esteem and the need to exert their power at any cost. I believe Dementia and all her supts should attend management classes on how to treat and keep employees, even white women with phd's. However,it might not help them but we can say we've done everything we can to help them and then fire them. Lets hope this newly appointed conservator understands what "valuing employees because they are your best asset" means and he practices it. Santa Claus, all we want for Christmas is to be treated with respect and dignity. We want honest and ethical supervisors who do not feel like they are above the law and believe they have the right to treat employees with disdain because of their own real or imagined paranoia. Santa, I will leave you milk and cookies, love you, "Just me."

rage judicata said...

Well, I was wondering when the "take care of staff first" people would really show up in force. I wasn't disappointed.

And this quote: and with the at will crap, that just said, we can replace you at the drop of hat really shows how much of an entitlement complex TYC employees have. I mean, welcome to employment law in Texas jackass, where at will employment is the norm. Do a good job and you get to keep it. Having a set job forever allows you to sit on your butt and never get fired. I bet the folks abusing all of the kids and their administrators who helped cover it up had that exact feeling.

What a lazy bastard. "Pay me better and give me a job for life, and then we'll talk about the kids." That's all you're saying.

St. Nick said...

Santa aint comin. Nor are his dwarfs and Rudolf has gotten lost. Many staff are great, many are are rotten, many staff are lost to, many staff have no business working in TYC and many staff need to walk faster at work and lose some weight.

TYC is going into contract care. If staff feel unappreciated now wait till they taste the fruits of a privatization. $5.85 an hour to start, no 40 hour weeks or very little. Managers that are no better than a brand new JCO I. Benefits you recieve will take up a quarter of your paycheck, and no retirement unless you fund your own 401k.

Hail to Perry, Hail to Perry! He not only lit the fuse he is "movin on up," to the East side(tring anyway "Washington"). Nobody cares about this agency. All they want in Austin for Christmas is for someone to blame, get into contract care and wash their hands of it. All those politicians can then point the finger at each other, OH I mean the contractor. Merry Christmas, and to all a Good BY TYC. Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho!!!!!! Who you callin a HO?

Gritsforbreakfast said...

rage, first, let's keep the name calling to a minimum; I could easily apply the label "jackass" to your comments, they were so ill-informed and spiteful, if I chose to. But it's better IMO to confront arguments than spew name calling. Unless you're 12, in which case such behavior is understandable.

Your interpretation might be warranted if the TYC admin hadn't abused at will employment, firing people for retaliation or even for no good reason at all (like the dozens filed for past criminal records the agency already knew about). Civil service isn't lifetime employment, it just means they have to have a reason to fire you. If TYCers were fired for not doing a good job, 2/3 of the top slots at HQ would be vacant, including the E.D., IMO.

As for pay, would you work as a youth prison guard for the same pay you could make at the Walmart? If not, maybe you should be more appreciative of those who've dedicated their careers to making you safer? TYC employees are voting with their feet and leaving, and soon there won't be enough left to run the facilities. Calling them names on their way out the door helps nothing. best,

Anonymous said...

To 8:00 a.m., I don't know where you work, but you obviously have a severe complex about employees in the workforce and maybe you like being treated poorly. The rest of us don't appreciate it. Are you one of the superintendents offended by the truth? Anyone who works for any employer deserves to be treated with respect and dignity, regardless of being an at will employee. The at will employement is not the question, speaking of jackass, it's the poor treatment of employees by facility superintendents and central office administrators. All employees in TYC are at will, unless you know something the rest don't. What the commentor is sayng is that administrators have no right to intimdiate, embarass or shame a subordinate into giving them what they want if its against policy, the law or procedure and they should treat employees right if they want to keep them. Isn't that what its about any workplace??

Maybe you are one of the ones with the reading comprehension problem Dementia spoke about or perhaps you have been beaten into submission by one of those supts, or as I stated above, you are one of those supts.!! There is no need to call someone you don't even know a jackass, burro!! I don't believe the commentor said pay me better or give me a job for life. It was treat me with respect and dignity and just because you're a superintendent it doesn't give you the right the right to treat employees poorly!!

25 year veteran!

Anonymous said...

Scott, thanks for comprehending what I meant as the 7:42 commentor. I won't waste my time with rage! I've seen too much of it at work!!

Anonymous said...

Attacks by kids on staff is getting out of control. The kids are out of control HELP

Anonymous said...

Grits,

Since you are a "researcher", why don't you research Nedelkoff's work in Florida and the impact he made on the juvenile justice system and youth and families network; then check out the work he did at the Justice department and see what the people that worked for him and under him have to say about the way he cuts the beauracracy and helps the programs and line workers and gets things done; then look at his resume and notice that he has been working his whole life - working his way up from child protective service worker to detention center manager to juvenile justice manager to head of an agency to being appointed to the Justice Department and being lauded by democratic senators including Patrick Leahy. Don't just assume he is a Bush/Perry cronney without doing the research. That's not fair.

Gritsforbreakfast said...

Where did I assume that he's a "Bush Perry crony"?

Maybe others have done so, but if you read my post I listed his background as it's been presented in the publicly available record, quoted two juvie justice experts (Bush and Krisberg) praising him, and wished the man well.

And if you know more background on the man than has been published (e.g., Leahy's praises), why not give us the sources instead of just blaming me for not having found them on my own already? Tell us what you know.

Anonymous said...

Yea Scott, why don't you! Why don't you research Nedelkoff.
1:18PM, leave it alone. You sound like a raving looney.

Nobody needs to research Crap! Nobody gives a crap about some stupid senators in Washington or what they thought. Everybody knows their mostly phonys anyway. Those Senators wouldn't know a good manager from the last lobbyist that wiggled their foot into the crapper next to them at their outhouse. Politicians only know how to feed those that fed or feed them. They don't know what to look for in juvenile corrections, treatment, goal programming or family networking. Let the man work through the TYC insanity before you ask GRITS to research the man's background. Hell, that should have been done already anyway.

Let's see if nedelkoff will move some people around or kick-em out the door. Let's see if he will have the time to venture unannounced to some of our TYC facilities that Ms. Depoop say are being turned around.

I say, let's have Mr. Nedelkoff camp out at Mart. Invite all the youth of Mart to a camp cookout and bonfire. Everybody can cook weiners and burn marshmellows and sing TYC songs. After that then have the kids work in their daily journals about their days experiences. Later they can count the stars and discuss the days activities around the campfires.

What will it take to wake these idiots up. They hired a Boy Scout leader for C----- Sake!

rage judicata said...

rage, first, let's keep the name calling to a minimum; I could easily apply the label "jackass" to your comments,


You're right about this, and I apologize to the targets. I get disgusted by civil service types who want a virtual guarantee for life-long employment. Having been an at-will employee of various types since I was 16 (that's right at 30 years), I've had to live in an environment that means you can get let go even if you do a good job. To see people want to keep their jobs when they don't do it well makes me sick.

You'll remember our discussion about the one-time steroid using cop, and you and I both showed a distaste for the civil service system. To have someone spout that system when their concern should be for the kids in the system pushed it too far for me.

I can't delete those portions of my post, but if you can feel free to. I don't think you censor around here, or that would already be gone, but in this case have at it.

they were so ill-informed and spiteful, if I chose to

Spiteful, absolutely. Not ill informed though. That person showed a "me-first" attitude that has kept me from sympathizing with the run of the mill TYC employee. I'm on the record here as saying that they seem to care about themselves first and the kids later, after they got better hours and better pay, plus more help. A relative few have shown that they are concerned with the kids' conditions first, and right now only Howard comes to mind.

As for your comment about the administration being gone of actual performance were a job requirement, well, sadly that's true of just about every government agency or bureaucracy.

Gritsforbreakfast said...

rj - thanks for recanting the jackass comment.

fyi, civil service on local police and firefighters is MUCH different than state employees. I've got to run or I'd go into it, but Chapter 143 of the Local Government Code covering police and fire is a mess for the 73 cities it applies to. TYC is not covered by that statute, and indeed state employees who are not at will have FAR fewer employment rights compared to local cops in 143 cities, FWIW.

A Critical Observer said...

I have known Richard Nedelkoff for a number of years, and he is a decent, hard working, and visionary public servant. If given the authority necessary to reform the Texas Youth Commission, he can make a significant contribution and restore credibility to the Texas juvenile justice system. Unfortunately, I question whether he will be able to fulfill his mission if John Whitmire continues to tinker with the agency and protect Dimitria Pope, who is out of control.

Anonymous said...

TO TYC Employees......Help is on the way. There are people outside of your shop working on improved conditions. Stay Tuned :)

Anonymous said...

rage, let me explain this to you. People work in TYC because it is a job. I don't see anybody volunteering their services for free, do you? People expect to get compensated for the work that they do, right? How can a TYC employee give 100% of themselves to their jobs if they are getting overworked and treated like crap?!! Treat your employees with respect and pay them what they deserve, and they will do a good job. Period.
Signed,
Civil Servant

Anonymous said...

hey civil servant how much should they be paid? tell us by title and annual salary.

Anonymous said...

Can this be confirmed?

Starting in January the teachers at WTSS in Pyote are going to have to pull JCO duty during their conference periods.

Anonymous said...

Teachers get a conference period?????? Boy we are getting screwed at our campus. Ha.

Anonymous said...

3:53, can you please elaborate. What did he do particularly well? What are his strengths and what are his weaknesses?

Anonymous said...

TO TYC Employees......Help is on the way. There are people outside of your shop working on improved conditions. Stay Tuned :)
12/21/2007 04:02:00 PM

I think I have heard this BS before! Please don't try to sell pie in the sky to TYC staff. We may have been trusting in the past but you can forget that now days.

Now that TYC employees are at will you can be fired if the superintendent’s current whore doesn’t like you. If you find wrong doing you can be fired and discredited before you can cause trouble. At will employment was a real smart move on the part of the Legislature. Bringing at will employment to TYC made it so much easier for the TYC administration to keep their wrong doing secrete.

My new job starts in January and it has nothing to do with state employment! I don't have to drive miles out in the sticks to get to a thankless job. To all of you experts who have never worked in the hell hole called TYC you need to take my place since you think I did such a poor job taking care of some of the most dangerous youth in Texas. Come on and show me how smart you are and how good you can do in my vacant position. I am one more TYC staff you won’t have around to talk down about. I know Pope will share your happiness at my departure since I am white and well educated. What will you do when so many of us have gone TYC can no longer function? If you don’t understand that day is very near then you are clueless to the reality of what condition TYC is really in. No problem a TYC teacher can take my place.

Anonymous said...

He'll do what is right. His national reputation depends on it. At this point there is no other way but up.

Please wait and watch. If you can't hold back, directly email or call him after the holidays. Meanwhile spread the word that help is on the way.

I posted a similar message today from a TYC computer. I see it didn't appear on Grits.

Go Figure...

Anonymous said...

TO Critical Observer at 3:53am

What power does one deranged Senator have over the rest? There are many Senators of another party. The Governor, Lt. Governor, Speaker of the House, and the majority of members of both Houses of a partisan persuasion other than Quitmire's.

What keeps Pope, this psychopath,in power over TYC?

The well being of troubled youth is not a partisan issue.

The new Conservator has no option but to address this.

Whitmire left Dems hanging during the re-districting debate. I hope that this isn't what he cashed his chips in for.

Anonymous said...

12/20/2007 02:04:00 PM I absolutely agree with you! Everything was done to contract it out...A friend of mine from Mart called me today and the PS Stinnett has locked the kids in their cells and without priviledges because he said "there rooms were dirty and they are inmates." He was also overheard in "belittling" and lying on a youth, nothing new for him, regarding a job issue. If its contracted out...staff like that should go...it gives the rest of us a bad name. Mart II Unit - needs to be restructured and something must be done with the youth if its contracted out. I guarantee...if the kids get sent to TDCJ...parents will soon follow. And TYC thinks they had hell, let the parents dissect TDCJ and a riot and civil rights movement like none other is well on its way. As far as the new guy...we can wait and see...but nothing better will come of it.

Anonymous said...

Its about time they make those teachers work. 80% of them never show up to work on Mondays or Fridays. They're highly paid babysitters for TYC. Not many go above and beyond and the good ones are chased off. Yes, there might a few that actually teach and are inclined to help the youth, but most have no control over the classroom. Principals and Assistant Principals take so much time off that one wonders how the heck they know what is going on in their department. The principals are really good at presenting what the superintendent wants to hear to get off the hook. So sad but true.

Anonymous said...

To 7:58

I worked at TYC long enough I retired. The teachers I worked with did a good job. Some were better than others but I can't recall what I would call a bad teacher. It could be that the youth are so out of control due to staffing problems they can't teach. Teachers are not there to control the youth, their job is to teach. If a teaching environment is missing it is not the teacher’s fault. Get enough JCO staff in place to control the class room. TYC is not the local high school, it is a juvenile detention facility. They are probably out looking for alternate employment on Mondays and Fridays. I remember a past TYC superintendent who shared your philosophy about teachers. He was always trying to use teachers (professional staff) for other jobs they were not hired to do. Nothing instills professional pride like using professional staff as cleaning crew. TYC is a terrible place to work and the word is getting out so your complaints about teaches will be a moot point in the near future. Local school districts will have to take responsibility for the TYC youth in contract care. I doubt local school districts will allow their teachers to be treated like TYC has treated teachers. Another good thing is that teachers will not be working for slave wages in the contract care rebuild of TYC, they are professionals whose base salaries are set by law. With the shortage of teachers I doubt many will want to teach at the local juvenile lockup. Our elected officials started something that is only going to get worse for the youth, the staff, and the tax payers because the crooks are trying to line their pockets.

I wonder how many people turned Perry down before the contract care guy said yes. The new guy is knocking down some big tax dollars to go with his old job. What a deal this guy got. If there was not something in the deal for Richard’s employer they would never allow him to take a job of TYC Conservator and stay employed with them. Perry doesn’t even try to hide his corruption! If there is a major party shift this coming election maybe Perry will be a good target for a new Demo US Attorney General to investigate. Perry should be in prison for all of the terrible things he done for money.

Anonymous said...

Education in TYC is only as good as the Facility Superindentants, Principals and all other staff that work for TYC make it. It not only takes a good teacher but it takes a quality run facility that everyone there backs education for the students. Same as in the public school system. If parents are not willing to make the child go to school, help with homework,and be involved with the education of the child, then they too will fail.

When the student in the free world fails, then the first person to blame is the Teacher.
In TYC, most that work there including some superindentants could careless about education and those "high paid teachers". Education has always been on the back burner for the kids with most staff that work at TYC. I am not just referring to JCO staff now, so dont take Staff as meaning just them.
There seems to be no regard for what is going on in the classrooms as the halls of education depts. are loud and rowdy with people talking and medical calls interrupt testing and classrooms.
Constant interruption in the classes by others. There seems to be no respect for the student or teacher who is trying to get them on task to learn.
Maybe when kids are in school we could have everyone in the buildings helping in the classroom to keep the student on task. Not just behavior but helping with the learning. Create a learning enviroment that is valued by all and the students will follow suit if they see the adults interacting with the teacher in the learning process.

If the students see the others talking and laughing about their activities then the student see's no value in learning as we set the example as adults for what is more important. The students are off task listening to conversation and joining in.

If you were a parent in your public school system and you see what you see in your facilities education dept in your childs school then you probably would be really upset. So why are you or would you do the same on your job?

For our teachers and schools to be successful it is going to take the whole facility getting involved with education of these kids 100% of the time and remembering this is a school setting and nothing should be taking place but learning during the school hours.
Kids are followers and they will follow what they see. So the next time you walk in a classroom, go over and ask a kid if you can help him with his work. One person can not help 14 kids at one time.
We have to stop blaming everyone else and we have to start helping everyone to make this a better place if we still have jobs. THat is to be seen. I too, believe we will all be contracted out and the loss of jobs is well on its way.

Anonymous said...

If you have a disfunctional principal or asst.principal walking the halls of an education dept. looking to brow beat a teacher at the drop of a hat then you got yourself a dysfuntional education dept also.
If you got a principal with the same values as the saying goes "white educated woman" then you got a real dysfunctional education dept.
If you got a principal or asst.principal that does not treat the staff the same as everyone then you got a dysfunctional education dept.
If no one can see that but the ones that are being treated poorly you got a hell of a mess.
So don't think that you just have hard time in your dept and teachers have it made. Those sorry lazy teachers may have just been beaten down to the point that can't concentrate on learning. Just like you can't concentrate on your job.
I hate to break the news here but there is no rose garden in TYC.

Anonymous said...

Let's just stop all the BS. You people need to realize nobody cares except probably some of the bloggers. NOBODY CARES PER-REee-IOOOD! Stop the lying, stop the arguing, stop the jokes and end this mess once and for all. I love reading these blogs because it reminds of workin the dorm. A bunch of bumping gum's and flappin. No body on this blog is going to get anything changed except get a 5.85 and hr job for those who hang with a contractor. What part of that do you'all not understand?

And you teachers, some were good. But most of you are lazy do nothing, complaining babysitter's that could have cared less about those kids until payday. And what a payday it was for you.

One other thing if TYC does not go contract, the state must pay a beginning salary of at least $25,000to JCO's. Degreed Case Mangers start at $35,000. The base for any other TYC employee will begin at 25% the present rate. Unit Managers, that are worth a damm and not kicked out the door will start at &40,000 with measurable and attainable bonuses. Superintendants will sat at the same rate until they prove themselves. Mr. Nedelkoff can determine the the rest of the pay scales. Unfortunately, no of this will happen. The Contracts coming Boys and Girls.

Anonymous said...

12:38 maybe you could teach the kids better and that is where you should focus your next job with a contractor.
It is a fact that the majority of people hate the TYC teachers and this blog confirms that. One part you all don't get if you take education away the majority of the funding for TYC comes from education funds like the public school. Maybe all the babysitting teachers need to just leave and let you all handle the kids on the dorm all day long.
Boy you all will really hate the teachers when the school districts have to send them over to teach from public schools. Those teachers will be employee's of the district and not TYC or contract care.
As before on the blogs, teachers are not respected at TYC and there is just no use in trying to defend what others seem to think about them. But you all don't seem to have a problem with them during the school day when they relieve you of your duty to not have to baby sit them on a dorm.
I would like to know what you all do that is so much better than a teacher in a classroom does.
Yes your correct contract care is on its way to a facility near you.

Anonymous said...

TYC Education is an easy fix.

Do this.

Find the kids who have passed the GED then ask if anyone helped them prepare for the test and if it made any difference.

About 60% of the kids who pass get the right help from their teachers.

Find out what is working and do more of it.

Many of these kids can be successful academically and many are succeeding far beyond what is thought to be possible for them. The high motivation that some of them have is outright touching.

Part of the 300 said...

2:53:pm
Each facility will have vocational or college prep schooling. For those youth that don't give a S---prison survival will be their course of study. TYC does not need worthless teachers making more salary than assistant Superintendent's. Most teachers sit on their ass, give out worksheets and that's it, they DON't TEACH.

Any JCO in TYC that has sat in a TYC classrooom will tell you the same. Worthless, worthless, worthless. A taxpayer's nightmare, to say the least. Austin could give more pay to JCO's to sit, the same as teachers. You are obviousily a Moron!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Well you finally said the real reason that people in TYC hate the teachers." they make more money". Always has been and always will be the main issue. Now who is the moron?
Now, since the state mandates the pay for teachers I guess you feel the same way about the ones in public school. You know most of these no good teachers taught in Public school for many years with out being fired, so I guess they were doing something right.
Those same lazy ass teachers will be teaching those collge prep and vocational courses. But remember to take those courses they will need those GED's or Diploma's. Maybe you can get them one. I am done arguing with you. Maybe when the teachers that read your statements go to work after the holidays they will look at the people around them and believe that all think they are useless no good waste of state money. That should motivate them.

Anonymous said...

Not to worry TYC employees! Governor Rick Perry has a plan for your future employment!

I still don't understand how it is the people responsible for the sexual misconduct and the extended cover-up have not been brought to justice. Instead of fixing the problems the total destruction of TYC is being carried out.

The destruction of TYC is a carefully planned event. The plan is in its final stages. The new system will fill the pockets of a few.

None of what happened makes sense unless you follow the money not what is good for the youth, employees, and tax payers.

One of the earlier posters said it is out of anyone’s control on this blog and I fully agree. This was a done deal long ago in a smoke filled back room! Money talks and BS walks!!!

Just when you think it cannot get worse it always does at TYC! Good luck finding a new job where you are appreciated and valued. I hope everyone at TYC is mentally preparing themselves to move on. There is a good life after TYC. You will wonder why you stayed as long as you did once you have moved on. Don’t waste time fighting with each other, accept the change that is coming and take care of yourself.

"Chuy" said...

Once again if your a TYC employee stop with the back-stabbing crap you continue to pull. We all know the reason for the shape that we are currently in (Pope, Humphrey-Neel) and it will continue until these folks are gone.

We were placed under fiscal mismanagement for two perverts out at WTSS. Where are they today, out walking the streets. The above mentioned folks have spent the allotted overtime budget in two months, then suspends the payment of OT, then gets told "Your an idiot" and re-instates the OT.

They come up with a copyrighted treatment program that basically pushes youth out the door un-prepared, but who cares they know these youth ill head to their old chums at TDCJ.

They have spent 75% of the allotted travel budget in two months, (they do not understand what video conferencing is all about).

They had no plans for the 19 and above youth.

They did not follow proper procedure when they rolled out their "New" use of force policy (just spray the little coach-roaches). Which violated a court order, which they received nothing other than a slap on the wrist if that.

Our turnover rate is higher today than what it was last year, and they even made a new position(TYC recruiter) which was not available last year and still cannot find employees who would like to work for this agency.

And last but not least, our TYC Executive Director (acting) stated to the DMN that the reason TYC has become a failure with their treatment programing was based upon it was created in a vacuum by a bunch of PhD White Women.

Now someone please tell me why these folks are still in charge? This has become a total embarrassment, and to top it off when you leave work you can no longer hide the fact you work for TYC because you have to wear that damn shirt.

Yeah Perry you have done a helluva job with this agency, we just hope the new Conservator is not too late. He appears to have the qualifications we just hope he has the authority to send some "folks" packing under this new at will employment policy that they helped create. Have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year

rage judicata said...

rage, let me explain this to you. People work in TYC because it is a job.

You know, there are some jobs that you just don't take if all you want is a job. I think a job that requires close supervision over troubled kids who need good role models is not right for you if all you want is a paycheck. Of course, that may mean you have to go to school to learn a profession or a trade as opposed to driving past a TYC facility, saying "Now Hiring" on a banner outside, and walking is with your GED.

Some jobs have greater responsibilities. Not everyone treats them that way, but the ones who do them right aren't in it for only a paycheck.

Go back to school and get out of the TYC. You're part of the problem.



Grits:

I know the difference between a PD/FD civil service and what TYC currently enjoys, but he's arguing to have what the have. I don't believe cops should have it, just to keep them honest. Much less people who are in direct contact with kids with these types of issue.

Everyone from top to bottom should keep an eye on their jobs and know that if they don't fly right they could lose it.

Anonymous said...

rage judicata your management style has been tried many times before and failed. You would be referred to as a toxic boss in management circles. Your methods would be too destructive and costly for modern businesses. On the other hand you would be a good fit for TYC administration. TYC likes people who think like you and that has really worked well for TYC wouldn’t you say rage judicata considering the current state of affairs at TYC?

At any rate, TYC will be coming to an end in the very near future so all discussion about TYC is pointless. Current TYC employees need to prepare themselves to move on. If you can hang on until they do away with your job you can draw unemployment for 6 months. Don’t forget about stress leave if you have plenty of sick-leave built up. You can burn off 30 days of sick-leave that you would otherwise lose if you don’t use it with stress leave. Be smart and plan ahead for the well being of yourself and your family. Don’t be concerned about TYC or the youth; your family comes first! The condition TYC is in is the direct result of the Governor, the Texas Legislature, and TYC administration! Full responsibility rests at the top not the bottom of the structure. No doubt the people who are leading TYC to its destruction would like to blame the staff in the field but that is not how the responsibility falls. Do not buy into the guilt trip of the people who are really to blame for the failure of TYC!

Anonymous said...

rage judicata are you SF in Central Office?? I have issues with anyone making comments about TYC staff and have never worked in the field.
I could be wrong but the words you use I have heard more than once, sounds familiar!

Anonymous said...

Unemployment well not last long if your laid off from TYC.When you file for unemployment they give you a State of Texas App.And look TDCJ is short of staff and there's a job.You can refuse to work for TDCJ then the State refuses to pay you for unemployment.Life is Grand!Another thing they also have schools in TDCJ why don't they the problems TYC has.

Anonymous said...

Rumor has it and a good source on the rumor that the lovely shirts are going away. No more will be ordered.

Ready! They are replacing them with a full uniform! Shirts and Pants for all of us to struct around in.
So why are they spending tax dollars on this crap? Do believe the money could be put to better use than making all of us look like we are beneath CO in every way.

Anonymous said...

Schools in TDCJ are for Adults who want to go and it is their choice. Kids don't want to go to school most of the time. Teenagers already know everything and they are already smarter than an adult. They don't need no schoolin!Ha-ha

Did you not know more than your parents at that age?

Anonymous said...

Rage Judicata,
Very well said in your 7:04 post.

Anonymous said...

Lets see, walking in with your GED. Please go back when well qualified staff were being fired or intimidated to leave TYC based upon ignorant TDCJ transplants.

I believe the majority of them had the best interests of the youth while employed. TYC will never hire qualified staff as long as the current leadership is in place.

Heck, especially qualified PhD level "White Women".

rage judicata said...

rage judicata your management style has been tried many times before and failed. You would be referred to as a toxic boss in management circles.

That's weird. I have direct supervision of eight attorneys and twelve staff members. I've had the same lawyers in my section for four years and haven't had to hire new staff except because of growth for two. Pretty low turnover in a high-pressure environment.

The difference is that in my profession results are expected and nobody is exempt from scrutiny. This is known by everyone, and nobody shies away from it.

Another difference is that I require 10% of their billable hours to be pro bono hours--makes for a good place to work if the firm will donate 10% of its overall time to charity. All of those in my section who bill (not all staff has to), beat not only the minimum requirements for the firm in billable hours, but do it before you even factor in the pro bono hours. The firm Christmas party was great, as was the firm retreat a couple of months ago.

But you keep on making assumptions just because I would require performance from you whereas you would want to be exempt from scrutiny. A difference of opinion must mean I'm a bad guy, right?

Anonymous said...

"Unemployment well not last long if your laid off from TYC.When you file for unemployment they give you a State of Texas App.And look TDCJ is short of staff and there's a job."

This could be true if you were a JCO and live within 25 miles of a TDCJ facility. TWC does not force you to move your place of residence. Also CO and JCO are not the same job and not the same rate of pay. There are several factors that will play in the employee's favor.

Anonymous said...

rage judicata you refuse to understand abuse of employees is the center pin of this discussion. It is obvious you have never been a case worker, teacher, or JCO at TYC and have no clue what this discussion is about. It is you rage judicata who make assumptions based on your mental conjecture. Once again we have an expert with no real experience showing his ignorance about TYC. You really would be a good fit at TYC Central Office if you are not already working there.

The abuse I am talking about is racial bias, sex for jobs, and retaliation of exposing wrong doing. Throw in a good amount of over working people beyond their limits in a no win situation and telling them how sorry they are when your grand plan fails. The number of people leaving TYC over the years tells the story. rage judicata I doubt you treat your employees in the manor I am talking about or one of the lawyers working for you would have you in court!

rage judicata I have a question for you. Why have the people who molested the youth and the ones who covered it up never been prosecuted for their serious felony crimes? You say you are in charge of a pack of lawyers so this might be more in your area of expertise. I am looking forward to your answer.

Moogumbo said...

I spent six frustrating years at TYC with very little pay and only the raises given to JCO's. I left TYC last week. I was able to get a job the next day at Jack-in-Box. The benefits are better, I get free food. I am eligible for Asst Manager in only three months. I feel liberated and life is good again. The grass can be greener out of TYC. I am so happy. I have a bright future ahead and once I make manager Jack will send me to Burger University for free. Former co-workers come work with JACK or in my industry. There is hope!

Anonymous said...

Lots of contradictory feelings being expressed in this thread.

Employees clearly have been treated poorly in the last year: fired without cause, bullied into compliance with idiotic policies, placed in terrible situations due to understaffing, asked to choose between physical force or pepper spray b/c of that same lack of staffing, and insulted with a Wal-Mart-like uniform.

Rage judicata, I don't know how long you've been reading this blog, but I can tell you that in the early months of the TYC scandal, many, many staff expressed horror and outrage at the abuse of youth here on this site. What you see today is, IMO, the product of months of terrible working conditions. Attitudes have hardened. Self-preservation has replaced working with kids as the most important task for staff - itself a marker of the pathetic failure of the current regime.

On the other hand, we have "chuy" (among others) suggesting that the only reason for all of the above is "two perverts at WTSS." Really? That was the only problem at TYC before March 2007? I thought abuses of youth were shown to be far more widespread. And that youth and staff alike were stuck in a system that had become far too much like a TDCJ prison.

Then we have a string of cynical posts about Nedelkoff, often without any basis in fact. As an outsider, I'm in no position to criticize TYC staff for expecting the worst - esp given the poor qualifications of the last two conservators.

But Nedelkoff's background, and his opening comments to the media, strongly suggest that he should be given the benefit of the doubt. If he starts pushing for contract care, and shows no regard for the needs of staff, or the mission of juvenile rehabilitation, then the cynics will be vindicated.

But right now a lot of what's being written here sounds like conspiracy theory. I very much doubt that Nedelkoff, Whitmire, and Perry sat in a smoke-filled room last April cackling about how they would make millions by shifting TYC into contract care.

First of all, Nedelkoff's current employer, Eckerd Youth, is a non-profit, unlike, say, the Geo Group, which is a for-profit corporation. That's an important distinction. Second, the two companies are polar opposites philosophically. Geo, as we've seen, is a bottom-line oriented company known for underbidding competitors for state contracts, then presiding over horrific conditions for staff and adult or youth inmates in prison-like facilities.

By contrast, Eckerd's history shows a fierce opposition to the kind of boot camp or detention style facilities usually offered by contract care companies.

Until Jack Eckerd's recent death, they ran primarily wilderness camps with very low staff-youth ratios. The company operated in the red for much of its recent history b/c of its penchant for offering quality programs. Unlike Geo, I can find no history of abuse scandals in any Eckerd programs.

Jack Eckerd, the company's founder, was an outspoken critic of the turn to "get tough" juvenile justice in the 1990s. How much of that attitude can be imputed to Nedelkoff is unclear, but the fact is that he is knowledgeable about juvenile justice best practices. He demonstrated that in his DMN profile. He has worked at practically every level in juvenile justice, from probation officer to federal administrator.

That alone is a major upgrade from Kimbrough, Owens, and Pope. He actually knows what the hell he is doing. He may well be a "crony," as some of you have stated, but that word alone doesn't define the guy. In short, give him a chance - he may do the right thing after all if he's been given enough authority.

And just to be clear, I've never met or spoken with Nedelkoff... although I did graduate from high school down the road from Eckerd College in St. Petersburg, Florida (near the company's HQ). These are just my impressions of him at the outset of his tenure at TYC.

Merry Christmas.

Bill Bush

Anonymous said...

Bill Bush

You comments are always informative and clear. I for one have appreciated your contribution to the debate on this blog. When can we expect your book to come out? When will be able to meet you? Didn't you once mention your intentions to return to Texas next year?

"Chuy" said...

Bill Bush, I never stated TYC never had issues prior to March 2007. I did state the following;

Once again if your a TYC employee stop with the back-stabbing crap you continue to pull. We all know the reason for the shape that we are currently in (Pope, Humphrey-Neel) and it will continue until these folks are gone.

We were placed under fiscal mismanagement for two perverts out at WTSS. Where are they today, out walking the streets.

The context was based upon where TYC is today, this can be contributed to the current leadership and the problems (baggage) they brought to TYC and all the miscues they have had since coming on board. I have over 15 years with this agency and can state the problems with this agency have been ongoing but it did not take the steps that were taken.
The get tough approach has never worked but placing TYC under TDCJ management was not the cure all, if anything we are in worse shape today thatn we have ever been. But once again the reason for TYC to be placed under "Conservatorship" was based upon fiscal mismanagement, or that was what we were expected to believe. Anyone can look today at TYC and can easily tell that the agency as a whole is far worse today that March 2007. Today though you do not hear about the staff held hostage at Mart II, or the youth on youth assault or on staff. The current leadership has suppressed this from the media. What about the new Treatment program "Connextions" when it was rolled out at Al Price (unit). Was anyone aware that when the youth were told they did not have to worry about their education phase they broke computers and computer screens?

I as well as my colleagues will give Nedelkoff the benefit of the doubt and hope he brings treatment back to TYC but at the same time realizes that you cannot treat your staff the way the current leadership has and expect results.

Anonymous said...

Bill Bush said:
Unlike Geo, I can find no history of abuse scandals in any Eckerd programs.


Bill, you need to brush up on your investigative skills; it took me 5 minutes to find the the following article. Also found info on a James M. Tarduno who worked in security at EYA's E-How-Kee Camp in Brooksville. Mr. Tarduno was arrested for the sexual assault of a 14 y.o. girl he met on MySpace in 2006.

It's naive and absolutely silly to believe that an organization like EYA which operates so many camps, group homes, etc. won't have some skeletons in their closet. Does this reflect on Nedelkoff or TYC's future? No! But I used to live in Florida and I want everyone to know that just because EYA is supposedly non-profit that doesn't mean they have a shining halo. I also want everyone to question and stop blindly accepting comments made on this blog and elsewhere, esp. when so-called experts state them as facts.


Agency condemns camp's conduct
CURTIS KRUEGER, JOUNICE L. NEALY

St. Petersburg Times

August 30, 2000

A Juvenile Justice leader says he is "extremely disturbed" by findings about the death of a boy in a wilderness camp.

In a stinging new report, state officials say a 300-pound Eckerd wilderness camp counselor used an "improper, unauthorized and inappropriate" restraint hold that led to the death of Michael Wiltsie, a 12-year-old boy who weighed 65 pounds.

And after the boy died, another employee at the camp for youthful offenders provided false information to investigators. The camp's managers also refused to hand over certain documents, according to the report from the Department of Juvenile Justice.

"I am extremely disturbed by these findings," Juvenile Justice Secretary Bill Bankhead said in a prepared statement Tuesday.

Bankhead has asked Eckerd Youth Alternatives, the Clearwater- based non-profit company that operates Camp E-Kel-Etu, to ensure that counselor Joseph Cooley will not have any more contact with the youths it sends to the camp.

Cooley has been on paid administrative leave since the incident Feb. 4, according to his attorney.

Bankhead also wants to know what disciplinary action, if any, Eckerd plans against Jospeh Acton, the employee accused of providing false information.

But it was unclear whether Eckerd would face any sanction beyond harsh words from the department.

"That's something that the secretary will address once he sees how Eckerd responds to his letter," DJJ spokeswoman Catherine Arnold said.

Wiltsie's mother, Linda Ibarra, expressed relief at the findings. "Finally, the truth is coming out as each report is released," she said.

Regarding Cooley, she said, "I don't worry that he works with children ever again because he never will . . . not with his record." Her family has filed a civil lawsuit stemming from her son's death.

But Eckerd Youth Alternatives president and CEO Karen V. Waddell said in a statement that she was "disappointed regarding the allegations involving two very fine young men who had dedicated their lives to helping children."

She said Eckerd's staff was "most surprised" to learn about the allegations about Acton, whom she called an excellent teacher. She pledged to begin a third-party review of the allegations.

The report says that Acton, a resource teacher at the camp near Ocala, had told investigators he could not provide specific information about the restraint Cooley used on the disruptive Wiltsie because he didn't observe it. He said he was too busy with other campers at the time, "despite being less than 6 feet from the 15- minute-long restraint."

Numerous youths who witnessed the incident, however, said the restraint was in plain view.

Waddell also said "we were shocked to learn" that DJJ believed Eckerd failed to provide enough documentation. The report says Eckerd refused to provide state officials with copies of an internal investigation and a letter of resignation or termination of another employee.

Cooley's attorney, James Felman, of Tampa, said, "It probably shouldn't come as any surprise that when a child dies that the state agency is going to take the position that the force applied was - with the benefit of hindsight - excessive. But that doesn't mean that it was anything other than an accident."

The report includes a statement from Keith Paulk, former training director for Eckerd, who said that if Cooley needed to restrain Wiltsie, he should have used a method called the small juvenile restraint, or the "basket hold," he said.

Cooley told investigators that he recalled the basket restraint but thought that technique was no longer used.

This hold is designed to compensate for weight differences between counselors and smaller kids, making it safer.

Cooley, who had a glowing record at the camp, admitted that he wasn't trained to use the restraint he used on Wiltsie, the report said.

After Wiltsie's death, some changes were made at Camp E-Kel-Etu, the report said.

Counselors are constantly reminded of restraints and techniques and were given two-way radios.

Eckerd also now trains resource teachers in critical intervention procedures so they can assist counselors if necessary.

There also have been some staff changes.

Sandra Graham, the nurse who performed CPR on Wiltsie along with program director Fred Stickney while Cooley was away from the area sobbing, resigned for personal reasons, including nightmares about the incident.

Paulk, the training director who had been with Eckerd for 27 years, was told sometime between Wiltsie's death and April 26 that his services were no longer needed.

Paulk denied he resigned and says he was released because of reorganization.

The report from the Department of Juvenile Justice's inspector general is the third major report examining Wiltsie's death.

DJJ had sent the boy to the camp after he was arrested several times on charges that included battery, burglary, trespassing and resisting a law enforcement officer.

The Department of Children and Families said in a June report that Wiltsie's death was due to abuse it categorized broadly as "asphyxiation / suffocation / drowning" and "confinement/bizarre punishment."

But a Marion County grand jury report in February, while saying the restraint led to Wiltsie's death, criticized DJJ more harshly than it did Eckerd, saying Wiltsie should have been placed in a mental health facility instead of a wilderness camp. The grand jury declined to bring charges against Cooley.

Assistant State Attorney Ric Ridgway said Tuesday he would not present another case to another grand jury based on the report because there is no new evidence.

Anonymous said...

Here's the other article:

MySpace contact results in man's arrest

By TONY MARRERO

lmarrero@herandotoday.com

Apr 25, 2006

BROOKSVILLE — A 24-year-old Spring Hill man has been charged with sexual battery after he met a 14-year old girl on a popular Internet site, then had sex with her, according to an arrest affidavit from the Hernando County Sheriff’s Office.

James M. Tarduno, 3137 Wiltshire Ave., was arrested Tuesday and faces charges of lewd and lascivious battery on a child 12 years of age or older, but younger than 16.

The victim told investigators that she met Tarduno on MySpace.com, a popular social Internet site frequented by young people.

The two corresponded for a month online and through text messages on cell phones, then made arrangements to meet for sex, according to the report.

Tarduno met the victim at her house last Friday and they walked to Tarduno’s home, where they had sexual contact in the driveway, the report said. They also had sex in Tarduno’s station wagon, police said.

Tarduno later admitted to the sexual offense when contacted by investigators.

Tarduno was taken to Hernando County Jail, where he was being held on $20,000 bond.

According to the report, Tarduno worked in security at Eckerd Youth Alternatives E-How-Kee Camp, a camp in Brooksville for troubled youngsters.

Tarduno started as a night watchman at the camp earlier this year and had no direct contact with youngsters there, said Lou Anne Banks, a spokeswoman for Eckerd Youth Alternatives, when reached Tuesday afternoon.

Banks said Tarduno passed law enforcement background checks at the time of his application. She said Tarduno “no longer works with us as of this morning.”

Reporter Tony Marrero can be contacted at (352) 544-5286.

Anonymous said...

The Ripple Effect...

Mother, son found dead in apparent murder-suicide
By The Associated Press
Ocala Star-Banner, December 1, 2005

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OCALA - A woman whose 12-year-old son died in 2000 after being pinned down by a youth camp counselor was found dead in her garage with her 7-year-old son in an apparent murder-suicide, authorities said.
Linda Ibarra, 36, was found late Tuesday lying outside the driver's side door of a sport utility vehicle. Her son Lorenzo was found dead in the passenger seat, Marion County Sheriff's investigators said.

The vehicle's engine was not running, but the ignition was on and the garage door was closed, a sheriff's spokesman said. Ibarra's 16-year-old son found the bodies and called the sheriff's office.

''All signs point to carbon-monoxide poisoning and murder-suicide,'' Capt. Denis Strow said.

An assistant medical examiner found no signs of trauma on the two bodies, but an autopsy still needs to be conducted, Strow said.

Ibarra's son, Michael Wiltsie, died on Feb. 5, 2000, after being pinned to the floor by a 300-pound counselor at Camp E-Kel-Etu, a wilderness camp in the Ocala National Forest for troubled youth.

A grand jury cleared the counselor of wrongdoing, saying he was following proper restraint procedures. An autopsy concluded the cause of death was ''compressional asphyxiation.''

A Florida Department of Juvenile Justice investigation later held counselor Joseph Cooley responsible, saying he used excessive force to restrain Wiltsie.

Linda Ibarra filed wrongful death lawsuits against Cooley and the camp owner in both state and federal court. The cases settled for an undisclosed amount in 2002, the Ocala Star-Banner reported.

Neighbor Jesse Heckman said Ibarra often talked about the ghost of her son helping her around the house.

''It seems she had never gotten over him,'' Heckman said.

Anonymous said...

Eckerd youth camps are for at Risk youth. Their program is geared towards personal growth through past experiences that facilitates the youth's understanding for the reasons they behave in the manner they due. Self-esteem through outdoor experiences and confidence building is the key.

Youth then begin to develope responses to those past experiences, regress and those experiences in their thoughts regarding appropriate responses with and healthier cognitive approach. Thru learned skills in the Eckerd program based on those self-esteem objectives, Eckerds program had many more issues involving youth abuse that most state government programs. Why? because their was no public accountability or public focus. Parents paid and parents were fed what Eckerd wanted them to know.

Mr. Nedelkoff must seek out experience case managers. Visit the recommit population. Those youth know the TYC system. Most will be honest with you and interested in bettering TYC. However, you must gain their trust. You have to ensure and show youth you are genuine and not the typical BS administrator that is more concerned with his or her own goals, then tells the youth some BS. The first time you mess that up and the youth realize your as much a phony as the rest, you will see youth that will relatiate as never before so get ready if that if that is your intention.

TYC youth are the worst of the worst. They are not stupid and they can manipulate stupid staff they don't respect.

This is a blunt reponse but it is as accurate as one can provide you as you proceed into an abyss of corruption, politics and the worst lying questionable state legislature known to man. God bless and Good Luck! Take no CRAP, Speak your mind, Do what you think is beat. Forget the pundants, politicians, or anyone that has no Juvenile justice experience.

Anonymous said...

1:15,

Ouch. I'm not sure how I missed this string of articles that you found in 5 minutes, but I'll gladly admit my error here.

I agree with your point that these incidents don't necessarily reflect badly on Nedelkoff, but they do give me pause.

I do stand by my point about profits and non-profits.

To the person who asked me when I will be in Texas: It's very much up in the air right now. The book should come out in fall/winter 2008.

Bill B.

Anonymous said...

Those articles remind me of the time when a kid at Crockett was killed in a restraint. The only difference is that the kid in Florida was a little kid wheras the kid in Crockett was huge and very dangerous to restrain. In the Crockett restraint, two heavy weight strong JCO's took that big kid down and he later died of positional asphyxiation. The JCO's thought he was resisting when in fact the kid was trying to catch his breath. In that case, I'd bet he'd still be alive if they'd just used the OC. That's a good example of why we need OC as an option.

Anonymous said...

Just for the record, Freeman and Blu were not at Crockett when the kid died. Ya'll will have to put that junk on someone else.

Anonymous said...

4:05, ..Wrong, the kid was NOT killed at Crockett, Get your freakin facts straight...quit startin bs. I was there and you are wrong! Your are just stirin the pot......

Anonymous said...

Yes a kid was killed at Crockett from a restraint, this occurred 6 to 8 years ago, but it did happen.

rage judicata said...

Rage judicata, I don't know how long you've been reading this blog, but I can tell you that in the early months of the TYC scandal, many, many staff expressed horror and outrage at the abuse of youth here on this site. What you see today is, IMO, the product of months of terrible working conditions. Attitudes have hardened. Self-preservation has replaced working with kids as the most important task for staff - itself a marker of the pathetic failure of the current regime.

I think your last sentence here sums it up. I agree that the system has failed, but I believe it has failed at all levels. Including the run of the mill TYC employees who are just in it for the check.

rage judicata you refuse to understand abuse of employees is the center pin of this discussion.

No, I'm fully aware that you and people like you are concerned primarily about your own working conditions. That has been my point--that you care about yourself, and maybe the kids if your own situation improves.

The job you have is important enough that you should only have it if you actually about the kids in your care. If you're in it for the check, get out. Get out now. The kids will be better off without you, and perhaps you'll be a happier person for it as well.


It is you rage judicata who make assumptions based on your mental conjecture.

Didn't we just both agree that your point is that you want better working conditions and you think that's the most important part of the discussion? Guess my conjecture is right on point then.

Once again we have an expert with no real experience showing his ignorance about TYC.

Now you're an expert?

You really would be a good fit at TYC Central Office if you are not already working there.

Wow, you're awful paranoid aren't you? Remember--puff puff pass.

The abuse I am talking about is racial bias, sex for jobs, and retaliation of exposing wrong doing.

Again, you're only concerned about your problems, not the kids. Stay classy.

Throw in a good amount of over working people beyond their limits

Sorry, but the day a government employee works so much that they've passed their limits is the day hell freezes over. I billed 2500 hours this year. That's billable hours. It doesn't include administrative work, or pro bono hours. All told, I average 65 hours a week. And I love my job. Maybe you should change professions to one you love as well? Just a suggestion.

rage judicata I have a question for you. Why have the people who molested the youth and the ones who covered it up never been prosecuted for their serious felony crimes? You say you are in charge of a pack of lawyers so this might be more in your area of expertise. I am looking forward to your answer.

There are a few answers to this, and they have been discussed at length by Grits. Many things were covered up, of course, and I don't know if you expect me to defend that practice by your tone, but of course I will not. The people committing the crimes should be prosecuted, as should those who covered them up. Another problem is that local DA's and judges don't want cases about kids from other towns that just so happen to be in a local TYC facility clogging up their courts. And that's a shame too. It has been proposed that state funds be used or a central prosecutor assigned to pay for and handle TYC prosecutions--of both crimes and assaults by the kids as well as against the kids. I think that's probably a good idea to make sure they get prosecuted, although I think that it shouldn't have to be done that way. Local prosecutors should prosecute those cases. Because it hasn't happened, someone from the state may have to be the one to take action. Which does not bode well for change.

Anyway, I hope those answers satisfied you. If not, well, I could care less. You sound bitter as hell, and like you could use a change. If you aren't there to help, and it's only a check, you don't seem to have a vested interest in staying. Sounds like the kids would be better off if you didn't.

Anonymous said...

Rage sounds like a former superintendent from west texas. Bitterness is not becoming and certainly its an issue you need to address with yourself.

At our facility, staff cares about the youth. Tenured staff hang on because they care and have vested time in both youth and tyc. With the current oil boom, they could walk off and find an oil field job in literally less than hour.

TYC has dedicated loyal employees not appreciated by the current leadership. A company is nothing without its employees and an administrator cannot be effective without them. Hence, the cry of tyc employees, treat us with respect and dignity. Give us a leadership worthy of our respect and trust. The current leadership has been allowed to demean employees and perform circus tricks for the media and no one can tell us why?? I hope the new conservator sends Dementia reeling out the door like she did to countless employees. However, in her case he should let the door hit her in the assets as she leaves!!!!

Anonymous said...

That former Superintendent did not even know what Brookins and Hernandez was doing, let alone write as well as rage can. I do not believe rage fully understands what has taken place at TYC so I really don't care what he/she has to say but he/she dopes write well.

Anonymous said...

I hope things get better for TYC employees. I worked in TYC for seven years and I left one month ago. During my time I worked with many highly competent and dedicated individuals. I left because I had no confidence in TYC's management. In eight months they managed to take the agency to new lows.

Believe me there are employers who want dedicated employees to help them in their business and they will value you and treat you with respect. I wouldn't buy a soda on credit, if I had to depend on TYC for my income.

Do not think for minute that TYC working conditions are comparable with what you will find with most employers. Those in charge of TYC deserve nothing but misery in their lifes! I can only hope that what goes around comes around.

Anonymous said...

Why dont you ask where the Regional office is at for the director over the western region is located at?? Its not in an office building its in te fools House..LOL I need an office in my House also so I can work when I please ,,,Comeon who makes thes decesions ??? And I thought we all had to be working in a State Approved typ Building ??? Damn what a bunch of fools,,I think His name is one of those hard to pronounce type names Omijama or something like that.A friend of mine in Midland said this to me as He said it ws a Local Joke going around in Midland but the fact is He has a office in His House...Merry Christmas

rage judicata said...

In eight months they managed to take the agency to new lows.



I don't see how anyone can say that in eight months the TYC has reached new lows, when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences and dozens of others being sexually and physically abused.

Is it bad? Absolutely. But how can you say things are so bad when they just affect you, and forget all about how bad it was for the kids at the time.

I try not to sound like my grandmother, but shame on you.


I do not believe rage fully understands what has taken place at TYC

And you would be wrong. The initial scandals are when I began reading Grits, and I have learned a great deal since then. I have always said that I understand that conditions are bad there. I agree that the administration should be tarred and feathered.

But you people ignore the fact that I largely agree with you, all because I criticize you for putting yourselves over the interest of the kids.

I've said before that the general public thinks the scandals have been largely addressed and believes TYC to be a youth prison. If you want people to start knowing the real problems there, which I have read all about, you're going to have to make them care. They're not going to care about you. They will care about the kids.

You have to start caring about the kids yourselves too.

"Chuy" said...

Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth. And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place. Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

The youth at these facilities will continue to be looked at by the public as criminals based upon their own perceptions from overall crime statistics and possibly being victims themselves.

This perception will not change over night but with good leadership (at the top) and legislators that actually care rather than getting a sound bite on the local news we will continue to see major problems with the TYC.

Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves, I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Anonymous said...

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self. You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now. In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

Tell us how your employees are just there for themselves and not the people in need of your services.
Just because you care about the kids does not mean that you have to leave your families and devote your self entirely to someone elses. Devote your self so much that your family has to suffer because of the stress and long hours on your job. So you can't make the house payment or pay your bills, does not matter your helping the kids in TYC. It makes no difference to you if your being underpaid or not paid for the work hours you put in, your helping the kids. You will fix the car some day when you can find a second job but the kids come first at TYC and personal family problems comes second.
Now is this the way you see that we all should live? This is what your saying when you say "paycheck" or that we are the problem. Maybe you can reply that we should find another job cause were not there for the KIDS. If that is true, then why are we all still here!
You want to help the kids in tyc that your so concerned about at this point. Then use your lawyer skills to help fix the problem. I am sure your "firm" has contacts that can put the heat on someone to help those kids.
As it has been said, several times before , if you have a good work enviroment then the rest will fall into place.
The kids realize how staff are treated and they listen and they pick up on what is going on. They too feel and see how the staff they care about are treated and they act out. Yes they do know we care because if we did not care we would not go to work everyday.

Anonymous said...

I agree with the opinion that TYC employees have to start caring for themselves. When you care for the kids so much that you are unable to see that you are being abused by the State as an employee, then your judgment has seriously been impaired. I too cared for the kids at TYC because I was like alot of them when I was younger, and after working for TYC for 10 years, I had to make a decision, do I stay to help the kids and continue to be used and abused by my employer, or do I get out and get another job working with kids where I am appreciated by my employer. I am happy to say, that I now have a job (not with TYC), helping kids, where I am appreciated. My desire to work with young people and help them overcome obstacles in their lives has been rejuvenated. Some of the kids in TYC have been abused by the State, but those numbers are nowhere close to the number of employees that have been abused by the State. No real change will happen at TYC until large number of staff leave, a mass exodus of employees. If this was to happen, in the long run, you would be helping the kids and yourself more so than if you stayed and tried to be a part of TYC that will eventually be dismantled by the government. Get out now, find a new job, and be happier. Merry Christmas.

Anonymous said...

Rage

I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC. How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

Get over yourself...things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

Sincerely,
Wearied by your BS!

Anonymous said...

Did TYC employees get 4 hours of Adm. leave this past Friday?

Anonymous said...

Rage,

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason. They just simply played to the Leg and removed people to show them that they were doing something. I do agree that some needed to leave.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

This is why, TYC is in such bad shape. Example: the invidual originally appointed to be the deputy General Counsel-is now the director over the corrections side of the house. A person with no experience in the field running this operation. What a plan?

Rage, would you hire Pat Riley-NBA basketball coach to be in charge of Citibank? I hope not. Wrong people in the wrong job is now the norm in TYC. So, things get worse with each passing day.

There's not a treatment program for the youth and employees are confused as to what is going to happen next. If you worked in TYC, you would see that management decisions are over the place and there's no consistency. So the youth and the employees are suffering the consequence of having an incompetent administration.

Whitsfoe said...

You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC. Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves. What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration. As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated. One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral. We know this because we've seen the consequences (calls in, staff shortages, high workers compensation claims, etc.).

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

Thanks

Anonymous said...

Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley." He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments. I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Anonymous said...

No, once again there was no admin leave for TYC employees in the field. First time in many years that TYC did not get the time off at Thanksgiving and Christmas. I am sure other state agencies recieved that time from the Gov.

Can't give it to those TYC people they don't deserve it.

Anonymous said...

Well, so what about no admin leave? Nobody showed up for work last year, why should they show up this year!

Anonymous said...

I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.
We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

Anonymous said...

Merry Christmas Grits

Anonymous said...

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Anonymous said...

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

Anonymous said...

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure. He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks. If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on. Don’t let this pervert play you! Ignore Rage and his line of BS because it is only to screw with your head. No doubt, he laughs his ass off when you spend your time to respond to him. In his mind he is in control of you and your emotions. I think Rage is filled with rage because he feels powerless in his own life which is a failure in family and relationships. On the blog Rage can create a fantasy life where he is a powerful person in charge of important business operations. Truth be known, Rage is someone’s errand boy. Take this pervert’s power away by ignoring him completely.

Anonymous said...

I just would just like to wish everyone a Merry Christmas (Feliz Navidad). We will all have a happy New Year when the Pope, Humphrey, and Neel hit the road back to TDCJ.

Believe in miracles and they will come true, keep a positive attitude and contact your State Representative and Senator.

It is better to die on your feet than live on your knees.

Emiliano Zapata
Mexican reformer & revolutionary (1877 - 1919)

Anonymous said...

In case no one has noticed, a lot of the kids released by the current administration are beginning to filter back into TYC. Most of the kids are coming back from county jails all over Texas, as well as from halfway houses. This trend is likely to continue as long as the buffoons running TYC refuse to consider treatment as an integral part of true rehabilitation. The Governor, the current administration and the Lege are the one's who don't care about the kids, not the line staff. Are there still big problems in TYC? Hell yes, there are. But the biggest are, without a doubt, Dementia, Bronco Billy, Mickey Neel, Steve Foster, Jim Hurley and the rest of the inexperienced, overpaid imports who have truly dragged TYC down to the status of laughing stock of the juvenile corrections community, nation-wide. If you are reading this Mr. Nedelkoff, you have an opportunity to make a positive impact on an agency that has suffered greatly since TDCJ and Kimbrough's toadies took over TYC. Are you up to the challenge or is it mismanagement, retaliation and intimidation, as usual?

"Chuy" said...

6:08am you are correct, the release panel cannot release youth fast enough considering all the youth we have coming back. Granted the panel is only doing the bidding of the Pope this whole situation is a fiasco.

Parole violations left and right, apparently the Counties are not listening to our woes and will continue sending these youth to us. But this is what I said would take place regardless based upon the publics demand to get tough on crime. And yes youth that would have come to us as General Offenders (misdemeanor crime) are now coming to us as Violent B-Offenders (felony).

SB 103 was/is on paper a great piece of legislation but these are some kinks they did not consider and the impact on the youth is wrong. The same could be said about the Determinant Offenders, judges are shying away from sending a 15, 16, 17, year old to TYC and are making them adults and sending them to TDCJ. What a shame and the future of these youth will be destroyed. Great job Texas,

Anonymous said...

If the youth population is not going down based upon this new piece of legislation then why would the leadership want to close more facilities?

We hear every day how they want to close our facility down and that were next on the list. This makes no sense to me and where would they put all the excess youth?

Anonymous said...

contract care and back to their counties to be responsible for. Maybe the plan is to close all the smaller facilities and keep the largest ones such as Mart, Brownwood and Al Price. The rest of us will go away with contract care. Just my two-cents on this one. This gets the monkey off the back of the state of texas.

Anonymous said...

Hey scroll down on "Grits" to Gov. please come back. And read what 12/21/07 6:11 PM posted Sounds good to me. The peron (he or she) makes a good point.

Anonymous said...

12/25 8:52 am
I agree this sounds like this might be their plan. But really who knows.

Anonymous said...

Merry Christmas to one and all and may the coming year be a good one for TYC!!

Now that a conservator has been named, we'll all know immediately where we are headed. If he does not get rid of the TDCJ regime, then we'll know where we stand!

Hopefully, this person cares for the youth and employees; if he does than we are all in for a great year and a respected leader. If he instill ethics, integrity and respect for our agency, he will have the loyalty of all employees in tyc. We are tired of being lied to, demeaned and the lack of communication with the field. The transparency promised by Dementia went by the wayside at the state of the agency briefings!! If she had any sense of professionalism and respect for the agency, she would step down on her own! Not gonna happen because of the size of her ego. Write your reps and senators and put pressure on them to get rid of these people that have razed our agency without so much as a blink of an eye! Together we can make a difference, divided we will fall.

2 cents worth!

Anonymous said...

Holiday thoughts:
Apparently Mr. Hurly, Ms. Pope etc. do not think TYC staff should know we have an new conservator named.
Without prejudging the new appointee, being in the private sector means he knows about money, something in which so many of the juvenile experts are lacking (e.g. Missouri plan with no funding, no transition plan, no way to keep current staff while you take away their careers).
Current posted photo will never get him the nickname of "goodhair."
If we are headed to contract care for some, many or all of TYC youth, it is possible that Mr. Nedelkoff at least can get it right. As has been pointed out, he has too much to lose if he doesn't get it right. He may also be able to get it through to the Gov and the Leg that failure to provide proper services will be extraordinarily expensive (remember, Morales v Turman sent TYC's budget from about $4 million to $254 million).
In any case, I choose not to have anyone in Austin ruin my time with my family at home or my family at work; I wish everyone, even those in Austin, good cheer, good dreams and even more, great reality. Merry Christmas and/or Happy Holidays, and may the New Year bring you peace.

Anonymous said...

I laugh my ass off every time I read anything you people post."I know who Rage is"no you don't,yes I do.CRY CRY CRY.Well I'm not going yo talk to you anymore CRY CRY CRY.GRITS help us because we can't help our selfs.You can't spell,Stop posting here leave us alone.You are a bunch of cry baby punks.Grits erase this guys post it hurts my feelings,It's a TROLL.I'm just reading these post because I need a good laugh.It's not just me it's a lot more people then you know.Well I forgot you clowns know everything.Do you know me,no you do not...You people need to suck it up.I could really care less if you respond to me or not but I know you are reading it.I'm not going anywhere.Good Night Cry Baby's

Anonymous said...

6:26pm sounds like you have issues?? Please take them elsewhere or post your name or at least come from behind that skirt your hiding behind. I find it hillarious how people like yourself comments on this blog trying to divert everyone from TYC problems (Pope, Humphrey, Neel).

They go away the problem goes away, I still have not seen one positive accomplish these three have contributed sonce coming on board. But then again when your appointed and you did not have to apply the bar sits pretty low when mentioning accomplishments.

Anonymous said...

Well, lets sum all of this up...we all know that the TYC education system is broke. There are few kids that can actually come in and test out...I have seen a few. However, those intellectual few are starving because the contradiction and to keep them busy is AFTER you get a GED then go get a DIPLOMA. That is ridiculous. So, there are alot of TYC lazy teachers and principals. They keep their heads down and work hoping to not get called out and asked any questions. Here at the Mart II Unit something has to be done. Its rediculous how the kids on side one sleep on the floor...I really don't care if they are cycling back through...hell adults do that. But the lower courts have to take some piece of that cycling pie. We don't know why they are coming back...violations, major felonies, new charges...etc. But if TYC and even this new guy were focused and consistent...these issues here at the Mart II unit would not exisit. I have to take the side of the kids on this one. If I'm being swaggered and bullied, over worked and grumpy....inadvertantly...I do take it back to the dorm. The PS today and acting ADO told this one kid today that "if I can't be home with my family then I will make your Christmas hell." They actually said that to this one kid, when I reported it...I was brushed off because then during visitation a parent was complaining that his kid is locked in his cell 23 hours a day. That's death row time schedules. If TYC structured a schedule for the crew they have, give the proper medical attention and etc...my job would be so much easier. So, lets wait and see what this new cat brings to the table....my vote right now...is nothing new...only buffered better to think your not getting screwed. And lets see what he does with the Mart Unit. Its horrible and the orientation unit is here too....lets see how this goes and watch him...nothing will be changed and this issue will soon fade and TYC will continue to hire stupid, abusive people. Like the ones here at the Mart II unit....this will be the next law suit.

Anonymous said...

6:26, you sound remarkably like some old West Texas administrators who just wanted kids to relax and enjoy it when they were getting screwed. Or maybe the administrators who said don't worry about it, when they heard complaints about it.

Anonymous said...

I'm certain 6:26 is Bubba Humphrey himself. We should be glad at least he is reading. Hopefully he'll learn something. His optimism is impressive.

Anonymous said...

Where is your name little one,and as for the skirt I wear it at work like most girl's do.And here we go again Please go elsewhere your hurting my feelings.

Anonymous said...

"So, there are alot of TYC lazy teachers and principals. They keep their heads down and work hoping to not get called out and asked any questions."

As 9:54 said in the above statement.

Have you ever thought that those lazy teachers and principals might be taking orders from CO on what they are to have those kids do after completing the GED. Yes it is required to complete your diploma per CO TYC Education DEPT.

One other point, in the real world a highschool diploma will state that you have completed highschool and you were not a Drop Out with a GED.
Go to a local college and hand them a GED to register for classes and see what that GED student will have to take vs a highschool diploma and all the test required to pass to get that diploma.

Education does not stop with a GED and a GED says "hey I could not hang for the whole deal, so I took the easy way out".

One other point that seems to be over looked by all when it comes to Education is Student desire to work and be that wonderful student that we all paint a picture of. The kid that is begging for an education and those sorry teachers want teach them. Just how many of these kids in TYC are really wanting to do those lessons any of them in the classrooms of TYC or Public school. Very damn few.

Most of those sorry teachers are having a hell of a time trying to get the kids on task, get them to do the work instead of sitting there drawing gang related crap, talking telling you to shut the F up when your trying to teach and chuncking the gang sign.

Do you think that might be some of the problems? But it is so much easier to blame someone else for something that you believe you see and do not have a clue what someone elses desire or job in TYC really does. You judge by opinion only and not by the real truth of the matter.

It would be like someone saying a caseworker has done nothing for kids or JCO staff is lazy, doctors are ignoring this or that. You can't do that unless your the one that has the job.

rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.


Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.

Anonymous said...

I think we should just let Rage have this string (and any other string he joins). I hope these aren't billable hours for him/her. Brilliance like his doesn't come cheap.

Anonymous said...

Don't give him anything! Ignore him.

Anonymous said...

It shows just how busy he is in that big office as a lawyer. I don't know about you guys but lawyers I know seem to be really busy and do not have time to post on blogs..all of the time! Sure would like to know where his office is located. If he was a real lawyer he would post his name and where he works. He would not be hiding behind a blog name.

Whitsfoe said...

Rage, you actually cracked me up on your response! I never mentioned anything about abusing kids. You put words in my mouth, but that's OK, you really showed yourself there.

But since you went there, I guess I'll correct you. The agency has recently (actually starting last March), put in place the Office of Inspector General, The Ombudsman Office, Hotline numbers posted everywhere, access to phones to call hotlines, and cameras out the ass so there will never be any blind spots. So, if you think physical abuse is so widespread and still occurring, are you saying the IG's office is dysfunctional, because we haven't had but one case out of Brownwood (of physical abuse) that resulted in criminal prosecution that I ever read about in the papers? Where are your facts? Where are these "beatings" occurring?

With all the scrutinity TYC was, and still is under by the main stream media, where are all the physical abuse cases you are talking about and how come they haven't been reported? Where are you getting your information?

Just remember what happens when you assume... eh-hem.

Anonymous said...

rage judicata said... You will listen to what I say you scum bags from TYC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.


rage judicata said...

I'm going to respond to each point, because I think it is important to do so. I'm not going to include names, so you'll have to pick out your little gem of a quote, assuming you care to read a response to your rants about me.


Rage, the ONLY reason most of us stay with TYC is based upon the youth.

I hope this is true. From reading these comments, it doesn't sound like it though. I'm posting from the perspective of a fairly well-informed outsider--whether you choose to believe the informed part is up to you--and it just does not sound like the majority here do anything but complain about their own conditions.

And please do not assume that dozens of youth were being abused sexually, the numbers do no bear this out.

Except that I said sexually AND physically. Big difference. Not to mention the fact that these abuses went on for years unchecked, unreported, and unprosecuted. So if you take a snapshot in time, perhaps there weren't dozens on any given day. But over time there undoubtedly were.

The problem with you staying past their MLOS was based upon the treatment plan in place.

Maybe. There were also problems with places to send the youth, and some who were just flat out being held late for no known reason. If the treatment plan was to blame, why were so many just released outright? (because that's what you do when you hold someone too long)

Now if we had a place like this blog site back then (if we were aware it existed) you would have seen similar responses from us about this treatment program.

I was here. From the start many complained about their own problems. Admittedly, back then when the abuse stories broke that was the most commented issue, but when those stories warmed over it turned quickly to selfish bickering.


Lastly, when you lump sum all TYC staff into what you perceive as a bunch of folks who care only for themselves,

Well, first of all I didn't lump them all in and have readily admitted when people like Howard stuck to their perception of the main problem being that of the way the kids are treated. Second, I have not commented at all on TYC employees as a whole or those who do not post here. So--when criticizing what you believe to be a gross generalization, first make sure I made such a generalization (I didn't) and then make sure not to do the same thing yourself (you did).

I guess our perception of your profession could be construed as a bunch of ambulance chasers trying to make a quick buck off of someones else's misery. Are you in this category, should we assume that you are one of those?

You can assume what you like of me. I defend some PI cases, although it is a small part of my practice, would almost never take one except for a family member (although I'd have a hard time turning down a case similar to the BP explosion folks), and as always, lawyers are scumbags right up until yuo need one. Then everyone else's lawyer is a scumbag, but you have a great reason for having one.

Last time I checked your profession was considered the least trust worthy of any profession, does this speak volumes about your interests?

So are you admitting that others in TYC are as I have said, but you are not? That seems to be the closest analogy.

And of course, if you ever want to see what sorts of things my profession has done, just read the Constitution.

I will not assume your intentions but please don't assume or point fingers at all TYC staff and their interests and I will do the same about yours.

Again, I didn't do what you just said I did. Read a little closer next time please.

8:08 You just don't get it. If you are an outsider looking in as you claim to be. It is about the kids in TYC, but you read what you want to read in the post. Every time you comment your repeating your self.

Yeah, I know. Still doesn't seem to sink into some thick heads though.

You continue to blame the people in the field for the problems and throw in a little of the blame on the adminstration.

Except for those committing abuse, I think the problem is exclusively with the administration. Most of my discussion has been with specific people commenting about their own well being before the kids. That just means that they should get a different job, not that they are the real problem. However, it sounds to me like the problem is systemic.

I am not being hostile towards you but trying to explain that your not always right and we are the ones to blame for the working conditions at TYC with our attitudes or our desire for a paycheck. The paycheck comes with the job. I would assume you are paid for what you supposedly do. I am glad your a wonderful boss over who ever your over. But those situations are not there in TYC.

You're responding to comments I made about assumptions about me. Take them out of context if you like, but that does not change the fact that the people to whom I was responding express concern only about themselves.

Go to work after the holidays and begin brow beating, back stabbing, and begin a racial, hostile work enviroment for you staff and see how long you will work in that perfect world as you know it now.

Now why would I do that? Not only is that not the way I am, but I have readily admitted to those same problems at TYC.

You're not even paying attention.

In about 4 months or less come back and let us all know how it is going. Tell us it is all about your clients and your lawyers and all other help don't seem to want anything but a paycheck.

In my profession there are lawyers and staff who will put up with anything for a paycheck. The difference is that their paycheck as a first year lawyer can be over $150K a year, plus bonus. If yours is smaller and that's all you care about, you would have less of a reason for staying.

You get what you pay for. And you generally earn what you're worth. If these don't apply to you, and you have lost sight of the kids, then please get another job. You'll be happier for it.


I don't work for TYC so please understand when I say this I say it as an outside observer...

The timber of you posts paint you as an elitist, puritanical, self-righteous, self-absorbed, narcissistic individual who flaunts himself to be a polymath rendering judgment upon a throne in an pristine ivory tower down upon the downtrodden dregs and buffoons of TYC.

Wow, them's a lot of big words there. Can you do me a favor and learn to spell 'timbre' though? I normally wouldn't correct spelling and grammar in a post, but I thought I'd do it for you just to prove you right about looking down upon you from my ivory tower.

How dare they have any but the most altruistic motives and not live in base piety willing to suffer for those whom they serve.

I never said that should be the case. I just said that some posters here should probably, maybe, every once in a while, just perhaps, even if on a whim, mention the kids.

Rage you project yourself to be some well educated person of power but are probably more akin to the little Wizard hiding behind a curtain blowing smoke and using mirrors to project an image of something grand! Evidence: your repeated posts and self-aggrandizement.

I'm not trying to project anything. If you read something into it that's your fault. I have admittedly made the same point over and over again, and it still does not get through to people like you who attack the messenger when you can't attack the message. My responses have been "self aggrandizing" only in response to specific accusations. Like the earlier poster, feel free to take them out of context in yet another attack of the messenger.

Get over yourself...

Not sure what you mean by this. This has never been about me, except when someone else makes it that way. I just think that if people are unhappy in their job, any job, and they're not ridiculously overpaid and it's worth staying for the money alone, then they should get a new job.

things are not as cookie cutter or black and white as you make them out to be. If you are truly as concerned about the youth as you project yourself to be then quit your job and go work for the agency and show the morons who work for TYC how it is done! Put up or shut up!

And what have you done to put up? I have ways that I serve my community at large, but what do you do?

The thing that you need to understand is that this administartion, removed alot of people from their position without reason.

Welcome to the real world.

However, the administration did not for when so of these people left and they did not they did not have the right people "waiting in the wings." These bad decision have had a negative impact on the youth and TYC in general.

I'm not sure there could be any more of a negative impact than the business as usual that was going on last year. And I have never defended the administration at TYC. Anyone who thinks I have is either not reading my posts or is simply making stuff up. I agree with very criticism you have of the administration, and could probably add a few more.


You know, I've been kicking back and just reading without commenting much, but this Rage punk got me a little pissed.

Internet tough guy. This should be good.

First off, dude, you have no clue and your time is better spent chasing ambulances as opposed to weighing in on the issues facing TYC.

Nope, I was wrong. Same tired cliches and failure to address the issues.

Get real. Not everyone can do this job but there are many of us who studied hard, held on through the bullshit, and are doing our best to make what went wrong right again.

To the extent you mean this, I actually wish you luck.

You continue to insult TYC staff and accuse them of thinking only of ourselves.

Just the ones who have posted as much. Again, don't generalize and try to hold me accountable for the things that I actually said, not what what you think I said.

What you don't understand is that in this profession, you have to right within yourself before you can make things right for kids. I'll make it simple for you... happy staff equate to happy kids.

Yet some of the unhappy staff don't even mention the kids, and show a desire to have a job with no accountability and higher pay--again, with no mention of the kids.

The current troubles we are facing are in fact correlating with the fact our staff are not happy with the current administration.

In other words, guards who don't like the administration go out and abuse the kids? Really?

As long as they don't feel appreciated, the kids won't feel appreciated.

Wow, I guess that is what you mean. You take your frustrations out on the kids. That's harsh man.

And oh yeah, since when are kids sent to TYC to feel appreciated? Even if all of the most altrustic and Missouri-style recommendations are passed, TYC is for serious rehabilitation. Not for Oprah style appreciating.

One of the worse things any juvenile justice agency could face is low employee moral.

I guess so, if it means you're going to go out and beat the kids.

So dude, why don't you just go over bill your clients and stand down on TYC issues because you really are clueless.

I don't over bill, I double bill. There's a difference.

Thanks

No problem. Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!


Guys stay on track and don't worry about Rage. I have an idea that Rage is really "Hurley."

Hurley is one of my favorite characters. I still like Locke better though. But man, wouldn't it be frustrating to be that rich and stuck on an island?

He is just trying to deflect attention away from his benefactors by making those type of comments.

Nope, just responding to comments made by others. You should get back on your meds.

I worked in central office and I have personally heard him commenting about his postings on this site.

Awesome. I don't even know where the central office is.


I agree with 12:05, that Hurley may be the one making these posts or SF out of Central Office. By deflecting attention from the "Real" issues (Pope, Humphrey, and Neel) they can continue to fall into the shadows of obscurity.

And would I do that by claiming that the primary problem at TYC are in fact those in the administration?

We need to ensure these issues are continued to be brought up, especially the last quote by Pope, "White Women With PhD's Cant Jump", or something like this.

I agree. why don't you write your local paper, or your state and local officials, instead of only commenting here? Continue to comment here by all means, but write it in. That's how things will change.

Rage just shows he's as ignorant as Kimbrough and Pope by saying "when last year they had hundreds of kids still in detention that had served their sentences." What part of the distinction between minimum and maximum do you not understand? A TYC sentence is over at age of majority (now age 19. previously age 21), not at the minimum. Maybe of you'd actually taken a juvenile law course you'd know that. But apparantly not.

This is awesome. A true gem. In the paragraph above you say that I am wrong about kids being held too long, and throw in some neato insults while you're at it. While in the paragraph below you admit that I'm right.

Actually Pope does illegally keep hundreds of 19-year olds past their current lawful age of release of 19, so if that's what you're worried about, you're jumping on the wrong person.

Classic!

Rage can kiss my grits (no offense meant Henson)!! He has no clue about juvenile corrections which leads me to agree with the other bloggers that he is Hurley!! I bet your salary alone could be used to pay for a few jco positions and you have the audacity to pass judgement on tyc employees?? In fact, if they got rid of Dementia and all her cronies and paid them what they pay field employees, they would be screaming and it wouldn't be out of the joy for working at tyc!! Do you hear them saying they will take a cut in pay to stay for the youth?? Get real!!!! Take an aspirin and don't call me!

More complaining about your salary. The rest is just too crazy to merit comment.

Rage is getting off screwing with everyone's head. He is only saying things to get a reaction from everyone for his perverted pleasure.

I must admit that I've probably had a little too much fun with the crazier ones here. But a reaction is not my main goal. Although, if people are talking, that ain't all bad either.

He skirts the tough questions with wise cracks.

Here's where you're wrong. The problem is that I highlight the selfish posers, who never talk about the real issues. You want to talk about the real issues, I'm all game. We're probably in agreement, since we both view the administration as a big problem. Our do-nothing legislature doesn't help either, and to top it off I'm sure their private-prison lobbyist buddies are contributing plenty to their campaigns.

If Rage was for real he would say what he thinks and move on.

So I shouldn't even answer questions or posts that look for a response? Huh.

Don’t let this pervert play you!

Now you're just being ridiculous.

Ignore Rage and his line of BS

Yeah, you're doing a great job of that so far.

Did you TYC scumbags understand that???

Anonymous said...

When will you long winded people learn that you two are the only ones reading those comments.. the rest of us scroll past and ignore.

rage judicata said...

Whitsfoe said...

Rage, you actually cracked me up on your response! I never mentioned anything about abusing kids. You put words in my mouth, but that's OK, you really showed yourself there.


That post had comments from a lot of posters. Not everything is about you.

But since you went there, I guess I'll correct you. The agency has recently (actually starting last March), put in place the Office of Inspector General, The Ombudsman Office, Hotline numbers posted everywhere, access to phones to call hotlines, and cameras out the ass so there will never be any blind spots. So, if you think physical abuse is so widespread and still occurring, are you saying the IG's office is dysfunctional, because we haven't had but one case out of Brownwood (of physical abuse) that resulted in criminal prosecution that I ever read about in the papers? Where are your facts? Where are these "beatings" occurring?

I never said they were ongoing. When you correct me, be sure you understand what I'm saying in the first place.

With all the scrutinity TYC was, and still is under by the main stream media, where are all the physical abuse cases you are talking about and how come they haven't been reported? Where are you getting your information?

Again, I did not say that abuse was still a big problem. Now it's more like neglect, but that's for another story.

But even back then the abuse was not widely reported or investigated, and everyone knows that.

Just remember what happens when you assume... eh-hem.

My only assumption is that you have no idea what my points are, which is a shame because they are very clear. You people just respond to what you think I said, not what I actually said.

Rage is a screwball said...

Rage: you said: "Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!"

Whitsfoe asked for the facts of that statement. You later said "Again, I did not say that abuse was still a big problem." You mean to tell me that beating a kid, even if it's just one, is "not a big problem?"

Then you stated: "Now it's more like neglect, but that's for another story."

Once again, and I'm with Whitsfoe on this one because I know where he's going with it...what facts do you have to support what you are saying? You put it out there, now you need to back it up. So lets hear it, all the facts.

Anonymous said...

I will no longer even read a blog that his name attached to it. I will scroll on by! I do believe this kind of crap is to posted on here to destroy the TYC blogging by Grits. I believe that there are people who want this website gone and they are destroying it by making these kinds of comments about the people who work for TYC look bad.

Starting fights so they can point out to whom ever what a bunch of idiots they have working at TYC and that we are the problem not the leaders of this agency. They need it in writing as documentation to prove we are the way they say we are to the legislators.

Stop helping these people accomplish their goals and destroying this web site. People do not respond to those like Rage. Before we had good place to come and discuss, now it is only a place to put our co workers down and feed the evils that want to make us all start hating each other and each dept. Just like the calling of teachers lazy and others on this blog. Stop or we will all be lost.

Anonymous said...

Rage: you said: "Have fun beating the kids until all of your frustrations are gone. Remember, every time you beat a kid, you're really showing the TYC that you're unhappy and it's all their fault!"

It's kind of sad that you would think that was a serious statement.

rage judicata said...

Starting fights so they can point out to whom ever what a bunch of idiots they have working at TYC and that we are the problem not the leaders of this agency.

2:10, this is the exact opposite of what I said. I think there are some staff issues, but that the administration is primarily responsible.

Grow up.

Anonymous said...

Well, I never!

whitsfoe said...

"It's kind of sad that you would think that was a serious statement."

It's kinda sad you weighed in on the issues without any facts, Rage.

We're taking it serious. Thanks for being an outsider looking in. We are doing our best.

Anonymous said...

Whitsfoe you spend way much too much time responding to RA.

I think the large point is that the legislature and subsequent conservator administrations have really done little "for the kids." The current administration has created a culture in which staff feel belittled, disrespected, and really doubt the current administration has any interest in rehabilitating kids. While the public may not know it the mission of TYC is not punishment and protection of the community but to prepare these kids for reentry into the community as productive citizens. Pepper spray, uniforms and Ex Con Connections programming is not doing anything.

I have to also say that at-will employment in a correctional agency is absolutely absurd.

Anonymous said...

I think Mr. Nedelkoff needs to ask Dementia about her personal case manager/counseling relationships with several youth who have been referred for transfer to TDCJ. I am not sure why the ED is visiting youth on campuses and making short term parole deals with youth who have demonstrated chronic and severe aggressive behavior while in TYC. It is unbelievable. She thinks she can fix em all up just by winking at them. First we need to parole them all, then we need to send them all to TDCJ and now they all just need to see the Pope and repent.

whitsfoe said...

@ 8:58 p.m. - I concur, and won't waste my time. Have a Happy Holiday season - Whitsfoe

Myrtle Sedgewick said...

I think we can save all the children in TYC. All TYC has to do is teach them manners. Show them how caring we are and how we can all get along with each other by being nice to one another. I think if we we sit each child down and politely explain to them the rules they will follow them. My grandson is going to TYC for stealing our neighbors car. Henry was not a delinquent he just liked to steal other peoples cars. Other than that he is a good boy, he's only 11years old. I am hoping that Henry will share the peanut butter cookies I plan on baking him with the other youth. I think if he does he will make some friends that he can play with. Henry has problems sharing grandmothers cookies though. Oh well I hope that TYC will make him a better person. I am very sad that he is going away. Can anyone tell me if there are toys for the kids to play with or can they bring their own?

Anonymous said...

To: Myrtle Sedgewick

Your grandson can’t have cookies or toys! The 11 year old is now in the Texas Youth Prison System. He will get no meaningful rehabilitation services in the current Pope run system. She fired all of the treatment professionals and hired adult prison cast offs to run TYC like the adult prison system.

Now that we have the bad news out of the way we can move on to the worse news! The 11 year old will come out of TYC with his car stealing skills greatly increased. The older boys will teach him to be a better car thief. They will introduce him to their friends who have chop shops so he can make money off of his hobby of stealing cars.

He does not have to take part in any meaningful programs or be held accountable for his behavior in any way while in TYC. I hope the older boys don’t take advantage of him since he is so young. TYC staff have had to go to a hands off policy or chance being fired for abusing the TYC youth. This is a very bad time for any child in Texas to be sent to TYC. I hope the best for your family and your grandson.

rage judicata said...

Myrtle, perhaps your attitude helped him turn out like he is. I hope he straightens out, but having family who says he's not a delinquent he just likes to steal cars is not a good thing. Quit making excuses for him. Parents who do not teach their kids accountability have kids who end up in TYC.

Congratulations, you and he are getting exactly what you both deserve. I hope the adults in your family are held civilly responsible for the crimes he committed and damages he caused.

dirty harry said...

In response to Rage's comment, some of the dedicated TYC employees stay because they believe some of these kids can be helped. And, they know they are the only ones that can insulate the youth from the actions of the idiots who are currently running the asylum.

In regard to TYCs "high paid" teachers, it's no big deal. All you have to do is go to college for eight years (most of which you'll have to pay for out of your own pocket), put up with teaching in the jungle of public schools for 15 to 20 years, and you too can be one of Pope's "Phd educated white women" that she has so little regard for. Of course, if the truth be known, even though there are plenty of deadbeat teachers in the system, it is basically being held together by a few good ones, some of which are these "Phd educated white women" who work in the worst teaching conditions year round that can possibly exist.

And, I think the GED program in TYC is a joke. I used to have some respect for Paris Ealy, but I now consider her also to be just as racist as as Pope. The way I saw it, she closed down a GED program and caused a white employee to lose her job for leaving a BLANK scrap peice of paper in a testing booklet, while allowing a black employee to misplace COMPLETED ANSWER SHEETS for two months! Unfortunately, the GED program is the only way some of these kids will ever get out of poverty.

dt said...

I amy be a little off topic, but, I have read on Grits that Sheffield is closed. If that is so, why is TYC still posting positions for that location?

For over two months the West Texas Principal position has been posted, a little shorter that Bob Contraras's old position at Ron Jackson. If TYC isn't getting applicants for these positions I can understand it, but WTSS is established in the minds of the people in the West.

It looks as if her holiness has already determined that WTSS will be closed.

Yes, Pyote has been the center of many sex scandals and other misuses, as documented in Raped by the State.

Let's hear it for ludicrous.

Anonymous said...

dt you sound like the author of raped by the state. He couldn't spell either and the book is poorly written. WTSS is not the cause of TYC's problems, it is a systemic disease that infected the agency from the top down. The lege thought the current "selected leadership" would be the cure all but instead its been the worst infection ever.

I have not heard Sheffield is closed or that WTSS will close. Don't post things that are not verifable!

Anonymous said...

Myrtle,

The Pollyanna sarcasm is not necessary. Obviously you believe the TDCJ approach is the only way to manage these incorrigible youth. Fortunately other states have demonstrated that intensive treatment programs reduce recidivism rates, especially for those who commit violent crimes. There are those of us within TYC who will strive for a juvenile system which reflects programs in other states where people actually believe youth delinquency does not necessarily mean life long criminality.

Rage your response to Ms. Myrtle's clearly made up situation reflects an ignorant and punitive approach. No 11 year old youth should be sent to TYC for stealing cars. Many other options exist which if implemented at age 10 would take more than 1 year to run their course leading to commitment at age 11. Does Henry really deserve to be in TYC because his family couldn't teach him responsibility. Probably it was his uncle who had him stealing the cars anyway and he is just the juvenile fall guy.

The Sedgewick family should have considered moving out of Harris County after the first referral to juvenile probation, because in HC two is all you get before you get sent up the river.

Anonymous said...

Why is that people expect TYC to teach manners to 11 year old or otherwise?? Parents and the whole village should have taught them manners by that age. Ms. Myrtle, I'm sorry your grandson likes to steal cars but someone in his family should have had some control over his actions. Was he out late at night? What kind of friends did he run around with? My 11 year old grandson cannot go anywhere without his parent's consent and without them knowing the parents his friend. My daughter-in-law calls the parents to see who will be supervising them while at their home. I'm not being facetious nor judgemental, I'm merely trying to get a feel for what happened to Henry??

2 cents worth.

Anonymous said...

I spoke to many "Ms. Myrtles" during my career at TYC, and heard similar stories, but I think this one is bogus. (She apparently caught Rage looking, though. Funny.)

Anonymous said...

I am missing something here, but is Myrtle a made up character and her little son Henry? Maybe to get a response from the people whom work at TYC?

Anonymous said...

Because of confidentiality rules, no one at TYC can confirm for you whether Ms. Myrtle or Henry are real people even if they know, but Rage's response to her tells us a lot about who Rage really is, don't you think?

rage judicata said...

(She apparently caught Rage looking, though. Funny.)

Yeah, I was keeping my head down hopig nobody would notice I got suckered.

Problem is that I've seen tons of parents just like that so my personal experience screwedme on that one.

Anonymous said...

Rage - your one twisted dude man...

Anonymous said...

Rage you need a real job, come work for TYC dude, you could help twisted kids like you!!!

Anonymous said...

Rage,

Our personal experiences everyday now tell us employees are being screwed (and the taxpayers are being hoodwinked) by the governor, legislators, and current administration.

And with your penchant for sending nonviolent youth to TYC I hope you were not in the role of defense attorney/representation in those personal experiences you have had with parents of delinquent youth.

rage judicata said...

1:02, what do you suggest we do with non-violent offenders? B&E with nobody home could be "non-violent" as well. Do you not think repeated car theft is bad enough to merit time in TYC?

Anonymous said...

No. I don't think an 11 year old car thief should be incarcerated.

Anonymous said...

Texas is severely lacking in its approach to dealing with youth who present with delinquency. Unfortunately the political leanings of this state have left few options for programs to work with troubled kids.

Anonymous said...

Also unfortunately the programming Texas does have for more chronic/ serious/violent youth has been woefully underfunded.

rage judicata said...

8:25:

Options?

Anonymous said...

Public flogging???

Emptying bed pans at retirement homes??

Making the youth watch 24 hours non stop coverage of Brittany Spears, Nicole Richey, and Paris Hilton... or succession of crap entertainment television!

2 weeks of service at a pig farm for every car stolen!!!

Draw and quarter them using the cars they stole...

Little middle eastern...cut off their right hand...

Make them live in indentured servitude per the price of the vehicle for each car they stole!

1 year in Iraq for each car they stole

Anonymous said...

10 year olds do not belong in TYC for car theft. They are prime targets for older sexual offenders to feast on! At that age they are easily led, intimidated and scared into doing what an older juvenile might want them to do! If there is no support system in the home for them, trouble follows!! Those of us who have children know how much work it takes to keep them on the right track and how hard it is for them to stay on it with peer pressure being a strong force in their daily life! I don't recall the saying, but it went something like "idle hands are the devil's...............!!!!!!!! Keep your kids busy, involved in school, sports, school clubs and IN CHURCH and care about their opinions and feelings, they are human too. Perhaps the 10 year old stealing cars did not have that support or went wrong inspite of it!

Gritsforbreakfast said...

Here's an admission for you: When I was eleven and my best friend was ten, we "stole" a neighbor's car (read: took it for a joy ride), and wrecked the thing within two blocks of where we took it. The owner accepted restitution and an apology instead of filing charges. It was embarrassing, the resulting home punishments severe, and those consequences kept me from making the practice a habit thereafter. But I'm damn glad nobody thought to ship me off to a youth prison for it! My life would be much different if they had.

Rage, the main option is parenting, and giving parents enough support (often through probation restrictions) to have leverage over a troubled kid. For all but a few (e.g., violent recidivists who pose a serious threat), locking them up is an act of desperation, not a solution. The real solution is providing support for parents and shifting to community-based carceral settings, which current agency leadership has said they will not do.

whitsfoe said...

Here's an option for the 10-13 year olds: alternative schools and mandatory after school day treatment which emphasis on daily counseling and bi-weekly family therapy, and supervised community service every weekend. The ledge just needs to fund the damn initiative.

It doesn't do any good for these youngsters to be incarcerated in TYC facilities. To me it seems more damage is done mixing them with those harden felons.

rage judicata said...

Grits, I agree completely about parenting. It's the solution to many crimes and our pathetic education system. But you cannot mandate that people be a good parent, like yours seem to have been. Your one-time example is also different than the habitual offender example.

I'm no Sharon Keller, but I do agree that some people just need killin. Some kids might also just need incarceration in a minimum securit facility with like-aged offenders, to keep the older ones from taking advantage of them. They need it, because unlike you, they have nobody in the home to learn from and their friends will just help them escalate their crimes in the future.

Anonymous said...

Has the Conservator been seen anywhere in TYC yet?

Anonymous said...

Dementia may have scared him away!!

Anonymous said...

Been seen yet? I've yet to see anything 'official' from TYC management even announcing the appointment of a new conservator. Its a good thing the MSM picked it up, or TYC employees wouldn't even have known. That's pretty much a slap in the face from Dementia and her gang, don't you think? Insubordination maybe? Damn, I wish. Anyway, I hope his laying low is a sign of investigation and not laziness or uncaring. What we don't need is another Kimbrough...what a joke! Hopefully this guy doesn't own a Harley. And I used to like guys on Harleys. Kimbrough kind of blew that for me...

Anonymous said...

It is posted in the news section of TYC's website and has been posted for about a week and a half.

Anonymous said...

The website. That's the new TYC's method of training .. go find it yourself, we're not going to tell you.

Anonymous said...

And it's buried in the News section. You'd think that might be important enough to put as a headline, unless Pope is going to ignore him because she knows she's untouchable.

Anonymous said...

Maybe the new year will bring good changes for TYC. One can only hope and pray that Nedelkoff will do the right thing. However, with Dementia's reputation, she may eat him alive before he can make any headway. HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Anonymous said...

As a TYC employee on my way out. I can only hope that all of my TYC coworkers find employment elsewhere. Dementia and her croonies have set TYC at least 10-20 years back. I don't see the need to stick around something that is beyond repair. Correct me, if I am wrong, but what does TYC has to offer beyond drama, problems, and incompetent management?

Rage don't waste your time responding, you have nothing meaningful to say. I quote " go work in TYC if you think you can fix it."

Happy New Year!

Anonymous said...

As someone who worked for TYC 20 years ago, she's pushed them back way further than that.

Anonymous said...

Hey is this guy Needlemeyer the same man who was on Animal House???Sure Looks like Him.....

Anonymous said...

i think something good is coming down the pike from the new conservator. keep your ears open.

Anonymous said...

Yep due to hostage taking @ facilities we have to all close. It not safe for White Ph.D's to work here anymore.

Anonymous said...

Every child get's 10 minutes alone with Dementia for a personal conference on the floor, and then they get a new set of angel wings for the fast trip home.

Anonymous said...

i heard Bronco Billy may be riding off into the sunset.

Anonymous said...

he may have already rode off into the sunset taking two other high ranking administrators with him . . .

Anonymous said...

BION: Billy is on schedule to teach a course in ethics in Huntsville to Assistant Superintendents!

Anonymous said...

I wouldn't be to excited about Nedelkoff. From what I've heard about his past he has issues with sleezy and unethical behavior in numerous situations.

Anonymous said...

No surprise here, GW liked him, he must be sleezy and unethical. Keep holding your collective breaths that this guy will run off Pope and Bronco. But, it ain't happening. Sweet dreams...

Anonymous said...

If Obama said that the problem with America today is that you have had "WHITE" politicians running the show for too long I guess he would get a pass to.....

Anonymous said...

training for assistant superintendents in Huntsville has been canceled, so don't know who Bronco Billy will be teaching!

Anonymous said...

Hmm... Maybe there is some good news coming for TYC after all!

Anonymous said...

Just the cancellation of the training and not having to listen to Bronco is good news. He has to be the biggest clown that came over from TDCJ.

Anonymous said...

I was informed tonight that Crockett State School is on lock-down and they had to call in riot squads (STAR Teams) to help control the situation. I guess they ran out of ice-cream in the kitchen!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

Too bad, less than 6 months after the TDCJers oust Freeman and Blu for no reason at all, the facility is chaotic. It never happened in the 6 years Freeman was Supt., oh yea, that's cause they would promptly beat every youth that entered the Unit, or at least that is what all the ex-staff and a few that slipped through the cracks would want everyone to think. Ever thought that after 20+ years in TYC, maybe Freeman knew how to run a TYC facility the right way???

Anonymous said...

10:55:00 PM
Uhhh, I think you need to leave the whole Freeman and Blu thing in the past and move on. It is 2008 and no need to beat a dead horse. Freeman is laying on the beach somewhere with a margarita, and Blu is somewhere trying to find a job.

Anonymous said...

Freeman doesn't drink or go to the beach, but the word is that he and Blu are both doing fine. It appears it is TYC that is suffering due to them being ran off for no reason.

Anonymous said...

Don't know about Freeman, but heard Blu went into a state of depression after being fired. Not so much for being fired, but because he and his wife were in the middle of adopting a child, and then when TYC accused Blu of mistreating youth and suspended him, the adoption agency would not let them adopt.

Anonymous said...

I am wondering who Dementia is going to blame now for the problems at Crockett?

You know is never her fault!
Well, at least the Asst. supt is a TDCJ transplant, therefore, it can be her fault. Dementia please blame the TYC personnel like you always have.

Dodge responsibility like the coward that you are!

Anonymous said...

Will the sins of Dementia ever leave TYC? How can this woman sleep at night? I feel so bad for Blu and his wife if the adoption did not go through because of the mess Dementia and her TDCJ cronies created. Unimaginable!

Anonymous said...

I was told that a couple of staff were assaulted and that the Mart STAR team deployed Sunday with the Ron Jackso STAR team due to deploy this week. Wonder why the media has not picked up on this, oh wait I forgot someone is controlling the media. Cant have any bad press, heaven sakes no.

Anonymous said...

Crockett is a nightmare, come on down and see the fun that these folks have created. Gansta Style

Anonymous said...

Freeman got what he deserved... Call it Karma.

And the campus is exactly what one would expect after the biggest bully on campus is ousted... because the kids no longer can be controlled through fear an intimidation.

Shouldn't matter who is running the program if had been run right in the first place! The ship run run smoothly with or without the captain if the captain is worth his salt!

Anonymous said...

Dude, Freeman's been gone for a while now, cant blame him for someone else's inability to run the ship. This ain't Captain and the Kangaroo, unless of course you reside at 4900 North Lamar. Lay balm where blame should be laid, not on Freeman.

Anonymous said...

Crockett is out of control completly, never been this bad in many years even before Freeman. BlueBell Williams has no idea what to do, he has bluffed his way for the past few months. The game is over and the youth have won. Dorms are totally destroyed and no one in CO probably does'nt have a clue.

Where the heck is Nedelkoff???

Anonymous said...

Central Office received letters letting them know that they (whomever is left) will not be laid off.

Anyone know about the FIELD?

Central Office is now "Safe", what about the rest of TYC?

Anyone know?

Anonymous said...

Can TYC's management be anymore ignorant? Now they are ressuring employees, after treating them so poorly.

Well, we have already lost so much experience and expertise that it may be too late to recover from Dementia's disaster.

Sorry, too late in the game and too much damage has been done. They will never earn the respect and loyalty of the employees.

Anonymous said...

Safe from what? There's nothing safe about working around this incompentent group. They'll manage to do further damage and ruin more promising careers. Have this management group done anything right? I don't think so. Get out as soon as you can!

Anonymous said...

Ask the Star team’s to give you their assessment of Crockett.
Let them speak without fear of retaliation and you will see what’s up…

Anonymous said...

Who were the letters from? Did Pope and Humphry's get one?

Anonymous said...

STAR team members that went to Crockett, let's hear it. You have nothing to fear if you blog it on here. Did ya'll have to go in with buckets of icecream, scoopers, and cones?

Anonymous said...

The big whigs showed up at Crockett today,Bronco Billy and Paul Bartush...

BlueBell Williams went home early also.

Hmmmmmm

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