that projections of stable levels of incoming youths may be incorrect. Many nonprofit, county and city institutions are experiencing cutbacks, which may make it difficult for them to serve young offenders.Whether or not those concerns are justified or will bear out in the real world, the deed is done. By the time the 83rd Legislature convenes in 2013, it should be clear whether Mr. Turner is just a Nervous Nellie or Nostradamus. I've heard similar concerns about the merger from a handful of institutional players in and out of the capitol, but nearly every critic of the bill save Turner refused to publicly criticize it because they feared the two powerful committee chairman - Sen. John Whitmire and Rep. Jerry Madden - who were pushing the idea.
Those realities, in addition to economic hardships for the families of at-risk children, could bring more youths through the juvenile justice system's doors, Turner said.
During the past four years, the federal government has cut funding to local juvenile programs; Tarrant County's portion fell from as much as $3 million to $300,000, Turner said.
"The cuts are coming," Turner said. "Families are in economic distress, people are losing their jobs, there's been a loss of resources in the schools and a loss of mental-health resources. I can't help but think that the probability is greatly increased because of all the cuts that more of these children will be funneled into the criminal justice system."
OTOH, Grits would be the first to concede there are strong arguments for the merger on efficiency grounds, particularly given TYC's massive recent downsizing. Time will tell whether this merger represents actual "reform," or merely change for change's sake. I honestly don't have an opinion on the propriety of the merger. I can see good points from both sides, but there are quite a few questions neither proponents nor critics seem able to answer. And advocacy groups this year too frequently played the role of cheerleader for the bill instead of loyal opposition, providing political cover for the merger instead of insisting all the hard questions get asked and publicly answered.
As an aside, among juvie justice advocates it's a true shame that the Texas Criminal Justice Coalition couldn't find money to keep my friend Isela Gutierrez on board after her excellent work in the 80th and 81st sessions: She was one of the only juvie advocates who I always trusted to shoot straight, even if it risked pissing off powerful people - a rare commodity indeed under the pink dome. Yet she always did so in a respectful, even humble manner that your correspondent greatly admires but could never replicate. We really missed you this year, Isela! :-(
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55 comments:
"Jockey" time begins!
All you folks "jockeying" for a position in the newly created agency please play nice. I'm sure those presently employed by the merging agencies will continue to give 100% towards the mission of their respective agency ( as opposed to spending all your time as a "jockey").
Retired 2004
Ditto Ms Gutierrez-too few straight shooters. Mr Turner is most likely correct-history repeating itself especially having to do with the cuts in mental health. Twenty years ago--thirty five years ago--they emptied mental health facilities and these poor folks ended up dying under bridges and in cardboard boxes in alleys. But something had to be done --hopes and prayers for the future of the new agency.
The Texas Criminal Justice Coalition is in the vanguard of the movement for social justice.
6 months away before the two agencies merge and my question is who will be the new Executive Director? Who will pick this person, Governor, Board, Whitmire?
When push comes to shove, a turd in a new wrapper is still a turd. Do you think Whitmire and Madden will take responsibility for their decisions if it fails?
Turner is just mad that he didn't have his way in structuring the new agency as Vicki's crony. The new 13 member board, with 3 chiefs on it, is legislatively obligated to employ the new director. I hope they conduct a nationwide search for the right person. The board and the transition team have a huge task awaiting them. It's obvious Turner does not need to be on the board with his defeatist attitude.
The juvenile probation departments across Texas are up to the task of making this new department a model for the US. Don't stand in our way.
Depending on how the budget works out the concept of deferring juveniles from state operated secure facilities will continue and flourish. We are seeing a rise in property offenses including burgs and agg robbery but that is normal in an economic downturn. It will correct itself.
7:56 am
You county folks are about to get ate up! Just look at the adult system for the model you will become, 3 chiefs or not!
Don't forget - TYC is a pit viper.
All I can say is that I hope it works better than the adult model. But given the history of TDCJ and of TYC, I'm not too optimistic.
Many of the sluts of TYC are now gone, however those relaining need to be fired also.
Since I'm sure certain posters hope madden and whitmires people read this and they also hope to bash others with thier post, I just hope while your bashing anyone that doesn't walk lock step with you, you have the guts to sign your name or at least the county your the director of.
Turner has maintained a position throughout this and articulated the reasons why.
He's yet to lie or vomit the untruths about other just because they have a different view!
And after watching some of so called bigger names in the field turn on other and actually attempt to destroy careers....being a chief for less than 3 years! I can't sign my name because I need my job!
Not sure what vomiting you have been a part of but as a NON chief in a very small county I have witnessed many people going to bat for what they believe in. Right or wrong they maintained their stance. After watching TJPC and crew start out in favor of this merger then go cold on it after discovering it will not be TJPC in the lead I began to doubt certain leadership qualities. I see Chief Turner in action all the time in my region and you can see he is all about himself, no one else except TJPC. If I ever become chief I hope he is retired or I can move out of the north region.
I am NOT happy with all the vitriol being spewed --TYC for all intents and purposes is no more. Take a breath and give us a break out here. I truly hope that TJCP does take the lead in this new agency and they cut management down to a decent size. Hands-on management is needed not ivory tower distancing. My prayers are with the staff of both agencies and the youth and families of Texas.
Soon to be retired.
Your correct TYC and TJPC is no more, seems to me you left one out there. Last time I checked TJCP does not supervsie the County Detention Centers nor would they have a clue as to what takes place in any Institution, lets just sit and see who is running whom!
Since TJCP is entering into this forced marriage, it is important for people in this agency to understand the code of silence at TYC. This decades old code is probably the most prominent aspect of TYC. While it is uniformly adhered to, it is most noticeable in the top administrators. Actually, this code of silence is more hidden than noticeable. Skillfully hidden. Very skillfully hidden. Expect the pack mentality. If you cross one, you will have six or eight others to earnestly back them up no matter what the truth is. In these situations, expect them to sound so sincere-this is a well practiced and perfected tactic. The code of denial and misdirection is just as prominent and characteristic of TYC. Trust your instincts. If it looks and sounds like its a sleazeball talking to you, chances are it is. Good luck!
Welcome to the real world. You chiefs, second hand sluffs and other TYC scum, now realize what TYC is all about. You covered all these years for your friends/losers and now you are the victims. You should have stood up ten years ago but you chose to be part of the TYC culture of abuse and cover up/see nothing/say nothing... and now you are the targets. What comes around....
You last two posters should really get back on your meds. All this conspiracy laden rhetoric is actually funny, please dont post your name, I'm sure you get laughed at quite regular without this type of crap also getting stuck to you.
Mike Meade for ED! He'll bring us all together.
"Mike Meade for ED..."
That's funny! LOL
It was posted as a joke, right?
Randy's points are well taken and he fought a good fight, but, the merger, after at least two decades of attempts, was inevitable this session, IMO. Too many stars were in allignment and with the TYC problems, the merger was going through like it was on greased skids.
Les
Haters gonna Hate
Chief Turner should be commended for his integrity and constant stance on the topic of merging the two super powers. Unlike his ugly counterparts across the state his position hasn't changed in the past 4 years. He operates a quality driven agency, using researched supported programs. Ask TJPC to run one data point - Felony referral - per capita for Juvenile referrals in each County. Tarrant will have one of the lowest rates for a large County. But then again, uglies never worry about facts, just rhetoric.
Wow, and I thought 5:07 was talking about Meade!
Idiot!
No, 06:53 was talking about Meade
TYC is not gone, just taken on a new name. Real changes in institutional culture will take more money. Not less. Turner is right. Before we know it we are going to have overcrowded institutions and will have to be expanding.
Dumb-ass! You just want to keep your job ay TYC. Forget it.
Having worked at TYC for 10 years before moving on to a different state agency, I would like to say that I was proud to work there, but I saw the writing on the wall. Whitmire had a vendetta against TYC for the last 8 years and he won.
Now for the kids. Who is speaking for the kids. Yes this kids are criminals, but they will someday be home and back on the streets.
What will happen to them. Will they get their education-no, the schools probably won't let them back in.
Will they get their dental and medical care-no-most are on medicaid and that department got funding cuts.
Will they get any job training-no, they don't have their GED's and most will drop out of school.
Until the state of Texas realizes that the funding must come across for education purposes, including job training for these kids and encouragement again to get their GED's, they will stay in the criminal loop.
These kids are all minors and cannot hold down fulltime jobs for health and dental insurance are at the mercy of the system.
All of the children of Texas are our future and we don't mold it to do better, we are doomed to failure.
Whitmire and his Elmer Fudd Clones could care less about it. It's not about kids or rehabilitation. It's about the green back which is why his comments are so ... full of shit? He alone is the reason Rick Perry needs to go as well and the reason we need TERM LIMITS.... including removing John Whitmire before he removes ANOTHER bartender in Austin. Just saying....
Turner is just a kiss-up. Ask anyone across the state.
Mike Meade in not the ED we need, neither is Vicki or Cherie and especially NOT Turner. Bring in fresh blood.
Remember, it is the juveniles across the state we are talking about here. Not statistics. The kids are harder to manipulate than the statistics.
Neither TJPC nor TYC is set to take the lead and I hope neither one tries. The new board should decide the fate of all the top cronies at each agency.
Mike Meade would sure shake things up but he is smart enough not to even consider the ED job while others across the state think they are capable of running the new agency.
"Remember, it is the juveniles across the state we are talking about here. Not statistics. The kids are harder to manipulate than the statistics."
YOU are exactly right. Let's not loose our focus. Enough with the Randy Turner/Mike Meade/Vicki Spriggs/Cherie Townsend bashing. The youth of Texas deserve our attention, not personalities. Turner and Meade are both very well respected in the field even if they don't see eye to eye. Both current ED's deserve a chance at the new agency. I do not envy the new board in choosing one but I do hope they remember why we are here and that is rehabilitating delinquents.
OK. Since the gov has signed this bill I assume it takes effect Sept 1.?? What does TJPC and TYC do in the meantime as lame ducks?? Does TJPC continue their monitoring schedule?? Does the new board take over September 1 with the transition team? Will the current administrations "jockey" for positions? Will funding remain steady? Lots of questions.
A reminder I posted here on Grits a while back that it would be a tell tale sign how fast this bill got pushed through. Compared to solutions to fix voter fraud where some legislators run and hide in another state. Precedence shows with each major public scandal regarding the State Training School, Texas youth Counsel, Texas Youth Commission there was a major upheaval of agency power at a cost to the tax payers. Gatesville was a perfectly good facility that was ordered closed to stop the child abuse. It was turned over to the Texas Department of Corrections to prevent investigations into the boys who are are still buried out there in unmarked graves. It should be obvious that this merger is an attempt to cover the widespread pedophilia that’s become common place with these team playas who oozed in like a plague over the last 4 decades. This is a smooth move in comparison to a public fact finding which could have an obvious potential to cause civil unrest and a public nuisance. Way to go Mr. Whitmire and Mr. Madden for slipping the tyc chester problem an Exlax.
About anonymous posters, cut them some slack, if the best you could do is work for a government agency, you would be ashamed to put yourself out there too. It’s not like it was 50 years ago where one person without a computer could do the job that takes 3 or 4 today with a computer! Been to register a vehicle lately? Just an example of providing excuses for the lazy factor in today’s government hires there were policies created in tyc where it now takes 3 team playas to watch as many boys as one hillbilly did in Gatesville. And these chesters still complain how scary it is to hold a dorm. All I can say is its going to be a great time for a kid to be committed to tyc where they will get to work on improving their thug lifestyle. Just like the 70’s were in Gatesville.
Sheldon for ED
He is probably more qualified than the TYC thugs.
Sheldon needs to get a ghost writer (I suggest Randy Chance) to write and publish his memoirs.
That great author of Raped by The State? I for one, agree. Go for it. Tell it all.
Thanks Guys, but I couldn’t afford the pay cut. However I would jump at a chance to be on the board.
Mr. Chances grammar is much better than mine. I had to take a special class for Engineering students in collage to pass Freshman English. That tyc education didn’t really prepare me as well for collage as it did to be an outlaw or a building tender. I’ll say this about the one book I’ve read by Mr. Chance, I couldn’t get through more than 5 or 6 pages without tears pouring from my eyes thinking about those poor children in the care of those horrible creatures. Those of us who have an inside knowledge of tyc are not the same as those who don’t. That’s tyc best cover, the atrocities committed by those monsters are just to unbelievable for people who haven’t been on the inside to believe and act on. Sadly Mr. Whitmire and Mr. Madden are only capable of doing legislative damage control. They should spend a week or two on a dorm, then they may really know what it’s like to have to lose.
Sheldon,
I know what happened at WTSS, but I'm curious about what led up to it. I've always thought that what happened at San Saba set things in motion and led up to the WTSS saga. Do you have any contacts who know what happened at San Saba from say 2000 to 2007 (when Lydia ran the place)? That part of the story has never been told and I believe it holds the key to understanding the TYC story. The staff who worked at San Saba would never talk, but some ex-students might.
Tommy B and Bill H., were there and know about Brookings, but never would admit to what they knew. Thats why TB gets his posts pulled, he is so out of control and too close to Lydia while covering her butt. He is one of the worst of the group that allowed it to happen.
The Superintendent at WTSS knew what Brookins was doing, even when he was out on medical leave at his house, which is right outside the campus. This same person was promoted to a position in Austin and then was allowed to resign when these issues got to close to others.
The two in 642 were also at WTSS and aware of Brookins activities. One was a direct part and the other promoted to keep his mouth shut. Five others at WTSS were involved but too close to the activity to rock the boat. They all should have been prosecuted.
From what I have seen, at TYC people have been promoted because they kept their mouths shut. Some have been promoted because they were
directly involved in misconduct (and, they knew too much). All were expected to not rock the boat. Hey, it worked for years. Those who kept getting promoted again and again have now risen to the top and now control the TYC culture, such as it is.
Who has risen to the top and controls the culture?
Yeah we need Ranty to write another rag filled with grammer and thinking errors. Nice. I see he's talking to himself again. Good meds and therapy for it Ranty.
Back on track. This merger will be a great thing for the state, don't care what Turner said. It is time for change and will be best to start from the tops of both agencies. The fear mongering that occurred after the WTSS incident sent a chain reaction to the bottom of the totum pole with new standards for TYC and TJPC (the field) that are senseless. Get back to reality and reduce some of the nonsencical requlations. Let's face it, we deal with kids that want to manipulate us and will mess with the system. Hotline calls are out of control with minor grievance issues.
The new standards at TYC accomplish one thing - they allow the students to game the system. Was all this done on purpose?
One of the time honored things the tyc culture teaches kids is how to “game the system”. This is not a bad thing. I am of the opinion that the ability to “game the system” if used for good is a good thing. I make sure my fellow alumni know this. Executives and sales people pay large sums of money to learn the techniques tyc teaches to kids by simply being in the tyc culture. These same techniques that the ignoramus would judge unfavorable with terms like “game the system”. A college education teaches one to study and pass test, going to collage helps in building networks of influential people. Having “game” populates bank accounts. All three make a kick ass alumni that will far outpace anything their former keepers could ever hope to accomplish.
If I had to choose anything positive that a kid receives from time in tyc, hands down top of the list would be the ability to game. This ability to game provides distinct advantages to that individual. The irony is the average ignorance in the tyc staff populous don’t get it. And even though they are in that culture day in and day out the best they can do is learn to cover for one another’s acts of cruelty to children.
However I do make it a point to tell the kids that gaming tyc staff, like a puffed up punk ass caseworker or a lowly supervisor is child’s play. I say to them to continue to build upon the skills you learned because when you get into the world of business you have to deal with smart savvy people.
Yes the one thing that remands a steadily constant across the decades of tyc culture like state sponsored child abuse, is a kid who spends time in tyc will develop the skill sets to game. And I’m confident that future kids in tyc will continue to learn that skill just like state sponsored child abuse will remain a constant in that environment as well.
The all time best example of gaming the system was what gangster and crack dealer Huey Newton did in California. Through constant manipulation and intimidation, he got the progressives at UC Santa Cruz to give him a Ph.D. He finagled a fake doctorate that same year (1980) from the University of California.
7:38...hotline has not been near the doom and gloom some feared it would be. Mike Meade even admitted that the other day. But my question is with your comment about standards, why for the last two sessions no one has brought a single request for legislative changes to the standards.
Just wondering?
I think the legislature did address the standards issue by voting on the merger and the creation of a board that can bring experience to the table. Don't know anything about Mike Meade but can tell you our county has kids that know how to play the hotline game to cause havoc over little items. It is a problem.
You are right, kids are calling the hotline like crazy with little complaints. Get the call logs and look at how many BS calls go to TJPC and how many actually get investigated and confirmed.
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