Thursday’s Sunset hearing on House Corrections firmly established that a full-blown Texas Youth Commission - Juvenile Probation Commission merger is off the table, but the new Sunset draft does not keep TYC and TJPC completely independent either. Instead the bill, the latest draft of which is not yet online, proposes creating a 13-member Texas Juvenile Justice Board who would be “responsible for overseeing and coordinating the functions and operations of the Texas Youth Commission and the Texas Juvenile Probation Commission.” This new board would be “the policy-making body for the Texas Youth Commission and the Texas Juvenile Probation Commission and is not a separate state agency.”
In addition, the new bill requires the executive directors of TYC and TJPC to co-preside over a new Juvenile Justice Improvement Plan Committee, which will create a five-year plan for improving the juvenile justice system in Texas, as well as developing a process for sharing information among TYC, TJPC, local probation departments and other state agencies that serve youth, including the Department of Family and Protective Services, the Dept of State Health Services, the Health and Human Services Commission, and TEA.
Also required as part of the plan are goals for reserving state facilities as much as possible for only higher risk juveniles, finding more alternatives to secure placement and keeping juveniles as close to home as possible.
The last big part of the bill is the establishment of community pilot programs. Unlike the county pilot programs proposed in the Senate right now, this bill would expand TJPC’s purse, providing funding for competitive grants for local programs. Although Dallas, Travis and the Southeast counties have already come up with plans, offering competitive grants gives other counties more time to develop program proposals that they weren’t able to draw up in just the first month of the session. Among the grant conditions are reduced commitment targets, specific performance measures and restrictions on use of grant money.
What’s most remarkable about the Sunset hearing was that, so far, almost everyone seemed to like the new draft. Cherie Townsend and Vicki Spriggs both expressed support of this draft, and nearly everyone who testified supported at least some parts of the bill. Today’s work group meeting will hash out some of the issues brought up in testimony:
Some people still want to see the agencies remain completely separate, so tomorrow’s meeting will likely determine whether the new board will exist or if the two agencies remain completely independent.
What agencies will be included as part of the juvenile justice improvement plan? The committee needs to determine the extent to which the plan might involve TEA, MHMR, CPS, and other programs that directly affect youth.
Who will be on the governing board? Some testified that there are people missing who ought to be a part of the board. The bill currently lists one juvenile court prosecutor, but not a defense attorney. Terri Hodge suggested appointing a youth to the committee.
The bill allows counties applying to participate in the proposed pilot programs to contract services with “nonprofit, for-profit, or faith-based organizations.” Southwest Key testified against authorizing county pilots to use for-profit juvenile prisons, questioning whether they would operate in the best interest of the juveniles.
By the end of Friday’s work session, the Sunset substitute bill will likely be ready a vote at next week’s Corrections Committee meeting.
RELATED: See an initial MSM report from KXAN's Jenny Hoff on the hearing.
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200 comments:
so is whitmire on board with this? its certainly not what he wanted, altho it sounds like a pretty reasonable bill (surprise, surprise).
nice summary, Tara
Terri Hodge has been indicted on theft/bribery charges. How in the world is she still employed?????
From Bill Bush:
Tara, terrific summary, thanks so much for it (and congrats on joining us married folks).
Many things here sound quite encouraging. However, in addition to the performance measures, I'd like to see some requirement for specificity in the programs to be offered in county grant proposals.
In other words, don't just provide cost figures and performance targets, tell us how you are going to get there. That has been the rub for juvenile justice for the last 100+ years.
facility closures????
One board good move and an opportunity to develop a continuity of services similar to Missouri. Yes they do have high restriction TYC like facilities. There may even be an opportunity for folks like Sheldon to serve and become change agents. (by that I mean recent and older TYC graduates)
ham2mtr
And yes we would like to know what the budget will be and who gets the ax. There are still a lot of skilled and dedicated people working for TYC.
If you keep the soiled clothes with clean clothes, they all smell. Start fresh....get rid of all the current employees and start with fresh, unsoiled staff. The youth and public deserve this at least. Keep only three large institutions for the bad youth, give the other faciliies to local firms.
11:48,
after awhile clean clothes get dirty and smelly! Just because you change your underwear does not mean you will never smell that smell again..
But I do agree with you alittle bit.
I hope this development will be a start to ending the confusion and chaos going within TYC facilities.
I would like to see a formalized plan. There are so many different things people hear out in the field. It's something new everyday. They say Mart is going to 100% specialized treatment, the ideal number of youth in any faciity should be 45 to name a couple of the rumors. It's such a mess out there right now because people with no knowledge about TYC have been calling the shots. There have been so many impractical, unreasonable decsions made.
I would also lik to see what they will do with sex offenders and others who don't have home approvals. There is a rush to get them released and back home. I'm talking about youth who have been removed from the home by CPS, don't have family, etc.. and youth who have sexually assaulted family members and animals etc.. As directed many of them have been rushed through the system but have no palce to go. Halfway houses are a solution but they are not always available. I have many questions and concerns and will be interested to wee what happens.
I am glad that the lege did not merge the two agencies and I hope that this is th beginning of a good thing.
Who is going to make up the 13 member board? Are the 3 Chiefs on there? If not - who is TJPC & TYC kissing up to - and why are they so opposed to Chiefs on the board? What are they scared of? The field needs a voice somewhere because TJPC & TYC are not listening!!!!!!
Are they closing Shaffer House in El Paso? I heard the sup't was gone and others may follow.
In the bill discussed yesterday, the board would consist of the following (although this changed this morning and I'll be getting the final updates on this as soon as I can):
*4 members who are juvenile court judges or county commissioners (this morning, this became more specific with 2 district judges and 2 county)
*one prosecutor in juvenile court (then, this morning they added one defense attorney certified in juvenile justice)
*one chief probation officer from a dept serving a small population (not specific on size)
*ditto above from medium pop. county
*ditto above from large pop. county
*one treatment professional, who may be mental health treatment prof.
*one educator
*member from an organization that advocates on behalf of juvenile offenders or victims
*2 at-large members from the public who are not employees of criminal or juvenile justice system
**Members would serve staggered 6-yr terms; all appointed by the governor with senate approval
***NOTE: Some of this DID change this morning. I'll get updates up when I have specifics.
Thank you Tara - please keep us informed on the changes from this morning - appreciate your hard work
Congratulations Tara, may you and your husband have a long and happy life, joyfully growing old together.
This oversight board is hopefully a step in the right direction. Having the two head honchos co chairing the board should be a good thing, assuming the persons occupying those roles at any given time understand concepts of mutual respect and team work. I just hope that the operations people in the know can come together to provide the services these kids need while limiting the enrolment in the state’s prison prep school. An oversight board, if properly functional, should get the clothes clean and keep them clean. Whatever tyc does, the first priority should be building the trust between the managerial emps and the staff emps. Y’all have a few years of internal mistrust going on that is absolutely detrimental to your purpose. The tyc should start training tyc emps in the basics like learning to respect one another, and professionalism in the work place, then move on to more difficult topics like communication and team building.
A separate and independent oversight board should be a good thing and a step in getting the agency cleaned up and civilized. Currently if the tyc agency were a kid they would be sent to tyc. I would like to think my tax dollars are paying for better than that.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
Sheldon -
I know a former "TYC kid" who was in there from 1971-1972 who is my youngest brother's new father-in-law. Yall used to call him "Shorty". His initials are R.F.
What he had to say was very interesting compared to what you have said your experience was at the Sycamore and Hackberry units in Gatesville. Sounded to me like those were the non-violent status offender populations. You didn't have fences which explains how you could have escaped on your second visit. Yet, after talking with him, Mountain View was where all the abusive stuff happened so he "heard" but never witnessed. He said he also heard of these graves you mentioned before, but no one got killed that he knew of when he was there. He was there for stealing bikes (go figure), but the most serious allegations of abuse occurred on the mountain view unit. Did they ever put you up on Mountain View?
I am a TYC employee, and I'm just interested in our history, and it's amazing to me what I heard from you and "Shorty" so far. He's doing rather well himself, and is now a structural steel detailer bringing on well over 120,000 last year. He's a good dude. Really shy but seems very honest.
Anyway, it seems as if what we're experiencing now with kids in our custody is extreamly much more violent than it was then after speaking with "Shorty." It was worth the 2 hours we discussed that TYC history. If someone knows Bill Bush's e-mail address, "Shorty" agreed to be interviewed.
As a member of the juvenile probation field I am pleased to see that the substitute bill kept the board make-up as originally set forth by the Sunset Commission. It is high time the little people n the field actually has board members who really know what the day to day activities are in a juvenile probation department.. The people in the field applaud the legislators in their understanding, afterall, a overwhelming majority of the state which makes up your constituents have endorsed the concept. A very big worry was because Representative McClendon's relative now serves on the TJPC board the field was afraid she would somehow wish to protect his board position and try to keep chif juvenile probation officers off of the new board. Everyone believed Vicki Spriggs would lobby for them to be removed even though she has stated to several she would accept the chief's on the board. Finally we may see her keep her word for a change. LBC
LOL. "Currently if the tyc agency were a kid they would be sent to tyc." True enough.
I am glad to see a treatment professional included on the proposed board, but I'm not holding my breath for them to choose someone competent or useful. We need someone who is an active and vocal advocate for these youth (not a typical mental health professional, because they seem to be pretty passive when you need them the most).
I must be the only person thinking...saying...with two miserable agencies, (whose administrators get paid extraordinary amounts for state employees), failing our youth we will simply add a board and committee to watch them do it? Great idea, let everyone keep their jobs and now have glorified appointees charge the State travel every quarter to come talk about how they would love to change the system. Good luck kiddos.
Until you have that Capital Murderer in your face with those gold teeth laughing out loud when he killed my daughter at his trial.
He told me she had "good pussy" after she died." He was sent to TYC at age 16.
I'm really watching these idiots there in Austin.
9:09 I agree but at least they are getting rid of current inept board members and putting people on the board who actually KNOW what it takes to fix kids. TYC doesen't even have a board that functions. The THPC board has 3 people who habdle juveniles in their court, all others have no clue what happens in the probation departments other than what is told to them. Give me a break. A preacher (McClendon's relative???), a president of a glass company, a motivational speaker?????? What do they know other than what the are told.
Same thing happened to the prior TYC board. They did as told to do by TYC management. Everything is great....go draw your salary and we'll take care of the kids. Yeh, they took care of the kids, the agency, the public and all the rest. Get people with backbone in there who will actually demand to know the truth of what is happening in TYC. The last board was bought and paid for with public funds by white collar criminals, who still have not been charged with their dirty work. It wil happen again, wait and see....you know the history story.
I still wish they would abolish both. At very least cut TYC in half and make TJPC get out of the county department's business. After the way Vicki Spriggs has conducted herself over the course of the past year SHE NEEDS TO GO. Let Ms. Townsend run both. Let Senator Whitmire run both.
The original concept of consolidating the 2 agencies was a sound concept. However, in light of the public outcry, although if you ask juvenile professionals most stated they wanted the merger, the legislators have decided to leave 2 seperate agencies but place 1 board over the 2. Noticably it leans towards practitioners from the juvenile probation field to help fix TYC. As stated in other comments the 4 juvenile judges and the 3 chief's on the board is is a absolutely wonderful concept that has merit. The state of Texas should be pleased that legislators are listening and attempting to bring expertise to bear in attempting to take the Juvenile Justice system in Texas to a higher level.
9:24; How is Billy Ray McClendon (TJPC Board Director) related to Ruth Jones McClendon? If they are related should this not be a big conflict of interest for Representative McClendon to propose anything regarding the makeup of the board of directors? No wonder the substitute bill sounded like Vicki Spriggs wrote it herself in some parts. I am surprised she agreed to having chiefs on the board considering how much she tries to hide tings from the field.
The TYC leadership fully knows which facilities will be closed and they wait and force employees to hold-on until the last minute with their lives. CGERIE, quit this junk and let employees know how they are effected....they have lives to plan on also. Stop this control authority position and let us know the truth...NOW.
O.K.,
I'm missing something here. This was just a meeting of the House Corrections Committee hearing for TYC-TJPC Sunset legislation, right?
Since when does anything that the Sunset Commission recommends become final law without the agreement of both the both the House AND the Senate?
I don't recall seeing anything comparable to what the House did Thursday and today, coming out of the Senate Criminal Justice Committee. Did it? If it did, I am surprised that Whitmire would have allowed such a drastic reversal of direction, given his insistance on the merger and the disolution of TYC.
Unless I have missed something here, the Senate passed their version of the State Budget in SB 1and slashed TYC dramatically ($81 million). As far as I recall, there is still proposed legislation in the Senate to eliminate TYC and TJPC and replacing them with a new Juvenile Justice Department.
Both the House and Senate proposed that an Interim Commission consisting of various Juvenile Justice representatives and lead by Spriggs and Townsend, be formed in 2010 to work out the logistics of transition.
Can anybody clarify what the position of the Senate is now regarding merger and funding of juvenile justice vs. what the House is proposing now, and what type of compromise is likely in the end? Tara? Grits?
This legislative drama has gone on for so long, with so much grand-standing, with so many proposals, and counter-proposals, and so much back-room politics, that I am beginning to wonder if any worthwile change will occur in the long run to make the Youth under the care of the States' Juvenile Justice System safer and better off for going through the system.
The big scandal of 2007 has blown over, and as the dust quietly settles to the ground, the guys with the brooms quietly move in during the early morning hours to clean up the last signs of chaos, while everyone else is still sleeping. On to the State School scandal. As the late Paul Harvey would say, "and now, Page 2"
Is it not real? If any of you folks think what we're dealing with are just baby's, help yourselves to this...
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Saturday, April 04, 2009
After beating his mother's roommate with a garden tool at their South Austin home Wednesday, Seth Tatum walked about three miles to the home of an Austin actor whom he had never met and killed him, according to an arrest affidavit.
Tatum, who has been out of prison for about three months, beat Carl Drake and killed 67-year-old Louis Byron Perryman, police said Friday.
On Thursday, Tatum, 26, drove Perryman's car to the Travis County Courthouse and surrendered to authorities, homicide Detective Joseph Chacon said.
"I just don't know what happened," said Tatum's mother, Joan. "He's sweet, and everybody loved him and supported him and thought he was going to be OK. At least he turned himself in."
Tatum has been diagnosed with bipolar disorder with psychotic symptoms, his mother said. He tried to get treatment at a psychiatric hospital Tuesday night, she said.
Perryman was a character actor who enjoyed a run of bit parts, including in the films "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre Part 2," "Poltergeist" and "The Blues Brothers" and in television's "Walker, Texas Ranger."
During the South by Southwest Film Festival last month, Perryman joined longtime creative collaborator and friend Tobe Hooper at a special screening of their movie "Eggshells," which was made in Austin in 1969 and was recently restored.
"It's lovely that they were able to reunite for such a special event before this tragedy," said Rebecca Campbell, director of the Austin Film Society.
On Wednesday, police said, Tatum fractured Drake's skull and cut his hands and head with a pair of garden shears. Drake was taken to University Medical Center at Brackenridge, where he was treated and released, police said.
Police said Tatum ran from the house in the 6000 block of Glen Meadow Drive when his mother called 911.
Tatum ended up at Perryman's home in the 1100 block of Darvone Circle, Chacon said. Tatum and Perryman did not know each other, he said.
Chacon said Tatum beat Perryman with a sharp object.
Tatum told detectives at the courthouse that he had beaten Drake and killed Perryman, Chacon said.
Joan Tatum said her son grew up in Austin, attended Porter Middle School and then got his General Educational Development certificate at a Texas Youth Commission facility in Brownwood.
After he left the commission at about age 19, he held a variety of jobs, including construction, rockwork and at several moving companies, Joan Tatum said.
Seth Tatum spent three years in prison for aggravated robbery, according to police, and was released from a Huntsville prison this year.
Joan Tatum said her son had come home this week after spending a month in a small town in Oklahoma with relatives.
She said that he wanted to work as a tattoo artist but that there were no jobs in tattooing in the town.
He had stopped taking his medications about a month ago because he didn't think they were helping him, she said.
On Tuesday, Seth Tatum asked his mother to take him to Seton Shoal Creek Hospital to see if she could get him admitted, Joan Tatum said.
"They wanted $3,600 for the first three days, and I don't have that kind of money, so we left," she said. "He is 26 and doesn't have insurance anymore."
In a statement, the Seton Family of Hospitals said, "It is our policy to let all of our patients know the cost of daily charges and doctor fees.
"If they do not have insurance or the means to cover those costs, we ask if they can assist in the payment of those charges."
The statement said Seton has provided about a half-million dollars in charity and free care for patients in the past year.
Tatum remained in the Travis County Jail on Friday with bail set at $1 million.
He has been charged with capital murder and aggravated assault with a deadly weapon.
He could receive the death penalty or life in prison if convicted.
Additional material from staff writer Chris Garcia.
10:52 PM. Sen Hinojosa will introduce his "Substitute Bill" on Monday with it mirroring the Mc Clendon substitute for the most part. Aolishment is now off the table in both the House and The Senate. Now starts the wrangling for control of the board. TJPC and TYC are lobbying hard to keep practitioners OFF the board. WHY??? Something to hide?
8:09,
Bill Bush here.
In re the graves: Those burials were all for kids who died in Gatesville between about 1890-1930, according to a manifest of the grave markers. There were other fatalities whose families had their bodies returned to them, so you have to imagine that those markers were for kids whose families couldn't or wouldn't do so.
Your description of the Sycamore and Hackberry facilities vs Mountain View corresponds roughly with my own understanding from the historical record, although there were claims of abuse against those units too.
One of the ways in which MV was misused was that it was a place of punishment for kids who "misbehaved" in the GV units, even the ones with the youngest status offenders.
My email address is bill.bush58@yahoo.com.
BB
Well I understand that Spriggs and Townsend may have won a battle. The final draft yesterday I hear had NO chief's on the board. I guess having a representative's realitive in the TJPC board carries some strings. Ruth did not wish to see her TJPC board member ousted from his first position. Did the legislature not know this when they allowed McClendon (Ruth) to write this? Typical politics. Not having anything to do with either probation or TYC I have nothing to loose but the dignaty of the general public. Where are the watchdogs???? GRITS???? Something smells here.
LOBBYING? I thought there were rules against VS and CT lobbying? I guess desperate times call for desperate measures. How do you know the chiefs on the board was taken out? Is the final draft online? I can see a uprising in the making if Spriggs had them removed after agreeing to it as a previous comment stated. Glad I am retired. Never did like TJPC in my business. We worked with the juveniles in spite of them.
7:23 Sure wish I could retire. The probation departments, with the exception of a very few, galvanized behind the chief's on the board concept. Vicki indeed stated to a group of chief's she would accept 3 voting chiefs on the board. Reflecting back it was just another ploy to shut up the field. She never meant it, just like every other bit of lip service she puts out there.
Others are correct in posting she had alot to do with this house bill substitute since one of her board members is a realitive to Representative McClendon. I suggest that relationship be clarified. Language in the first substitute Sec 2.052 placed restrictions on board membership. Sounds like "REALITIVE TO THE REPRESENTATIVE WRITING THE BILL" should be added. As it sounds Spriggs may have won out on the house side by having her friends take care of her but the senate is stronger and we will see Monday ho many smiles she has to offer. BTK
Probation, we feel your pain. We had a move to get advisors to Kimbrough and that idea got squashed. Then it was heck to pay for those of us who suggested it. In several cases we were administrators trying to put together an advisory group to help improve matters in the facilities. Top admin at TYC believed it was a take over attempt and as a result many of us left. Now look at TYC's mess.
Well it makes me now want to go to the TPA conference this next week so I can watch VS gloat if she did indeed pull off getting the chiefs off the board. I don't think she will be well received by the juvenile folk there. At least maybe she won't yell at us for posting on GRITS this time.
Tiger
No TYC board exists presently, does it? Perry fired he board when the prison bulls took over. I haven't seen where/when he replaced them all.
When will you probation people learn not to believe ANYTHING the state agency tells you? They tell you what they want you to hear then stab you in the back. I have seen Vicki Spriggs speak and she does put on a good show. Has she ever been a probation officer? I bet not.
I, for one, am getting really tired of reading all of these comments bashing Vicki Spriggs. Just because you don't like the message does not justify trying to kill the messenger.
She deals with 250 plus counties that all want to do things their own way. The message here is that this "little kingdom" phenomenon is over, and rightly so.
Some jobs don't pay enough to tolerate the nonsense that goes with it. I am surprised she stays and I think you are lucky to have her.
What does it take to fix a kid? I don't know anyone who knows how to "fix" kids. Do any of you? If so, please provide their name(s).
I know there are alot of exhausted, desperate parents out there who would love to talk with them. Certainly TYC needs that information. Hah! Wouldn't it be great if there were kid fixers. There would be no need for TYC, parole and probation. delinquent youth would just go to a kid fixer, the fixer would do their thing and viola! kid fixed.
Let's be realistic folks. Sometimes people just fail and it is up to the individual to be accountable, take advantage of help and make something of themselves. All anyone can ever do is offer the opportunity, in the end it is about choice.
Spriggs gets paid plenty for what she does. She doesn't do much, anyhow...shes a follower. Many of her people are simple minded and like her also. TYC is still a waste and the entire system needs overhauling.
A "follower" of what?
All together now....POOR VICKI.
She follows her underlings advice too much and does not think out of the box.
Has anyone else seen the irony of the testimony against the chiefs on the board being provided solely by Tarrant County's juvenile director whose judge just happens to be a multi-term board member? He speaks about conflict of interest yet his juvenile board member has been chair of the TJPC board. That in itself is more of a conflict than anything. Furthermore he is testifying against a belief/concept that the organization that he represents as vice president has solidly endorsed. How can JJAT allow that to happen? Talk about two faced. The members of JJAT should feel betrayed.
I certainly hope that you VS bashers will have the occasion to have your staff, public or judge rip the he77 out of you. Congratulations for reaching perfection.
Well, I did not catch Turner's testimony but watching other testimony I can see the urban counties stand to loose if the board makeup is changed. Lets face it the majority of the current TJPC board comes from urban counties. Fort Worth, Dallas,Houston, Austin and Amarillo have people on the board. That explains why the council of urban counties testified against the board composition. Another example of elitist representation that small counties cannot afford.
to JTP: You are correct--there is a very different bill making its way through the Senate. Big issues that will need to be reconciled include TYC budget and how the community pilots will be handled, for a start.
McReynolds is determined that this bill come out of the House. They want this out of committee next Thursday. McReynolds has "begun" talks with Whitmire, but I agree the compromising won't be easy. A "coming-to-Jesus" talk is on its way--but it remains to be seen who converts who.
I'm in Phoenix now, but I'm in the process of doing exactly what you're looking for: an update on the Senate end and possibilities for where they'll meet in the middle. Stay tuned :)
1:31 about as bad as having inept monitors rip county department administrators? I have no sympathy left. SHe has been told by many people to tone it down and you must be one of the few left that support her. It is a loosing battle. When she see's the light the pundits will stop. Might be cooler back in New York.
WAKE UP ALL YOU SPRIGGS BASHERS!!!!
Dont you know protocol states it is justified for TJPC to scrutinize departments but heaven forbid someone scruitinizes them.
Let's look at the New York model instead of the Missouri Model why don't we.
I've been around a long time and happen to agree with Turner 100% re Chief's on the board. I also think the criticism of VS is way too strong. Trying to reach consensus with 163 Chiefs is damn near impossible.
You all begged the legislature for money and year after year, the money increased. You got the money and now you want no direction or oversight by the legislature or the state agency charged with the responsibility of administering the legislatures edicts.
Mr. Turner is a good juvie man and I also agree with him on prohibiting probation officers from carrying guns. If you want to pistol-whoop someone, nearly all PD's in the state are hiring.
Plato
JJAT? You mean the group which uses Yosemite Sam as a mascot?
For those who did not have the pleasure of growing up being entertained by him, Yosemite Sam represents an idiot-villain, power-happy fool. The selection of that image indicates an underlying problem.
And, no, I am not an "underling" of anyone. I am a member of the public who encountered a cluster of local buffoons and determined this entire juvenile justice industry is sorely in need of direction, ethics, diversion services and regulation.
OH MY. Can't we all just get along? We all have difference of opinions with the way TJPC operates but this blog is not the place to air it out.
2:02 Thanks Les. We knew where you stood all along.
2:08 JJAT is the Juvenile Justice Association of Texas and no it has no mascot as you described. I am a proud member of that organization and JJAT is working for the betterment of the juveniles within the state, "local baffoons" not excluded.
Plato, you must be in the minority with Turner. What about guns? Is that in the Sunset Bill? I know SB 103 allowed some TJPC officers to be certified law enforcement officers, are you talking about that?
Sounds like the majority of people in the juvenile justice system need to retire and let the skilled young guns take over. Too many too close to retirement to buck the system. OLE SCHOOL.
2:08 What planet are you from?? JJAT is not represented by Sam nor is it a power happy fool like TJPC. They stand for good juvenile practices throughout the state. I just joined JJAT over TPA because of their beliefs. Get your facts correct before opening your mouth. Better yet, GET INVOLVED.
SB 1237 Estes: Gun carrying juvenile probation officers
Go to the JJAT website and click on merchandise and look at the t-shirt.
I just checked to see if it was still there.
It is, smoking guns and all.
And the 2:29 comment on "young guns" taking over?
I suspect some of these people are wanna-be cops that could not pass the physical exam.
2:55 HAHAHA. Too funny. You are right. It is on there. It is the Mascot for Texas Tech University and the T-shirt was made for the conference that was held in Lubbock 2 years ago. Heck, it is probably not even around anymore. But you are correct, it is there, just is not the "MASCOT". Will contact them Monday and ask it to be removed. LOL.
2:35 Is this the same concept that Adult Probation Officers may be armed by?
3:15
I'm glad you understand how funny that is.
I considered that perhaps they were trying to appeal to kids with the cartoon aspect, sort of like the Camel cigarettes logo.
I did not know that was the TT mascot. Why would anyone use it?
Next time, use a Precious Moments angel if you go with a cartoon image.
3:28 I do see the image presented in light of all this so that is why I saw it as funny. I am in the Lubbock area so I figures it out right off the bat. It in no relates to any ideaology that JJAT has. Was just a marketing tool for that conference. Heck, I'm gonna try to order one just to have it since I am a Tech fan. Trust me JJAT is a wonderful organization with the juveniles across the state as their number one priority. See for yourself. They have a conference April 26 which I cannot attend due to budget. They are a great networking organization for the juvenile field.
FYI I have sent an e-mail to the website guy to take the t-shirt off (after I buy one).
What makes it really funny on my end is that when I had this awful experience with some local JPO's, I described them to friends as "Yosemite Sam" types.
Then I looked at that website to try to find our what in the heck was going on here.
And there was the shirt.
Does anyone know when the new version of the bill will be available online?
OK I should have ordered it before I sent the webguy an e-mail. It is already done. What a geek. Oh well, maybe we should request all this drama to go away also. Think he can get rid of it?
Do you mind me asking what happened in your situation and what GENERAL area of the state you are in?
Glad this string turned calmer.
Also a member of JJAT. Went to website to see T-shirt and saw the vice-president position shows vacant. I thought Randy Turner was VP?
JJAT is a great org. Always has great conferences. Love the website pictures. Bring a conference to Dallas area soon. Save me a trip.
The Joint Committee on TYC that was formed in the wake of the 2007 scandal created SB 103 as an emergency fix. The three most politically important members IMO were Sen. Whitmire, Sen. Hinajosa, and Rep. Madden.
Two years later, Sen. Whitmire has remained fairly consistent in his desire to totally abolish TYC and start over again.
Sen. Hinajosa has been more moderate like Rep. Madden in his views of how to fix Juvenile Justice and TYC than Sen. Whitmire and Sen. Hinajosa also seems to support continued oversight by the OIG and OIO.
Rep. Madden, in the House has seemingly been reluctant to destroy TYC outright, but sees the need for serious restructuring and continued oversight by OIG. He has introduced legislation for an OIO for both Juvenile Justice combined with DPS and TDCJ, so it’s clear he supports an OIO function, but in a new form.
Regarding Director Spriggs, she, unlike Exec. Commissioner Townsend had been in front of the Texas Legislators for years and is highly regarded by them. Despite having the smaller agency, Director Spriggs currently has more political clout than Townsend. That's not a bad thing, just a reality.
Exec. Commissioner Townsend's unique professional qualifications as both a former TYC Administrator and a successful leader nationally in the Probation field herself, have certainly helped her to relate well to Director Spriggs.
Exec. Commissioner Townsend was very wise to join in a coalition with Director Spriggs on Juvenile Justice Policy issues, especially since Director Spriggs is also not in favor of a new Mega Juvenile Justice agency.
The Legislature is about to create a concocted solution to Juvenile Justice by piecing together ideas offered by professionals and special interests who have their ear, and not based on their own knowledge of Juvenile Justice Issues. That is how it is always done.
Therein lies the biggest risk, because the "best practices", advocated by those who have the legislature’s attention, are just that, “best not guaranteed solutions”. They are what most agencies across the country are playing with. Success in most all correctional programs is measured by the rate of recidivism and not by successful impacts on individual lives. If you don't come back because you were chained to a concrete post or because you’re really were impacted by programs is irrelevant to the criminal justice statisticians and politicians. As BB points out in several of his previous posts, we never get to know the reason behind the program statistics. That's because there is no current way to measure the treatment technology and evaluate what programmatic elements lead to success.
Legislating a succesful fix for Juvenile Justice is a little more complicated than fixing the Oyster problem. Let us pray...........
Tara...congratulations on being a new wife! I happen to think marriage is wonderful, so I wish you and your new husband the very best life has to offer.
I think your blog post is excellently written (wish I could say the same for some of these comments here.) Thanks for sharing your thoughts (and facts) with us.
I don't expect that we will be told exactly which facilities will close, but I was wondering if anyone has mentioned a time frame for the closings. There are a lot of teachers who will leave in June if they are not told something (myself included.) We will have no choice but sign a teaching contract first thing this summer if we have families to support (and most of us do.) Teaching jobs are not easy to find year round ...most contracts are signed during the summer months. Those facilities that are rumored to close, yet plan to stay open past June may well face a teacher shortage. What are your thoughts on this?
It should be clear by the end of the session which schools will be cut. West Texas and Victory Field are both to be closed in the the Senate Appropriations Bill, but both are approved to remain in the house version. Their fate will rest with the Appropriations Bill conference committee.
Damned good contribution,JTP. You just about covered it all and did it well.
Plato
That makes sense 6:11 than anything else I've heardi...thanks for the info.
Any word on the pilot programs proposed by Dallas, Travis and South East Texas Region?
I took a look at the Houston Chronicle link that provides the database for state employee salaries.
At TJPC, an agency with only 67 employees, there are 3 people classified as directors and an additional 10 classified as managers?
When you compare the classifications against the agency personnel list and the number of people these directors and managers are actually supervising, there is something really wrong.
For instance in the Staff Services Division there are two employees classified as managers supervising a total of three employees. Why would something like that even happen?
Another example would be the Behavioral Health Division. Why does it take a Director (97K a year) and Manager (75K a year) to supervise three employees?
There is the General Counsel making close to 130K a year and a Deputy Gen. Counsel making $84K and that's what is required to supervise three Attorneys, who are making somewhere in the range of
70K or 80K a yr.?
It just goes on and on. The more I look at it, the more examples I find. Based on this information, this agency is way too top heavy on managers and directors.
Here's the link if anyone is interested in taking a look:
http://www.chron.com/databases/texasstatesalaries
Sen. Whitmire was NOT out to get TYC when the Pope was in charge! It was only after her carpet purchase and other massive screw ups resulting in her not getting the ED job that he wanted TYC closed down.
Spriggs doesn't do that bad a job but a few whinners out there do not like being monitored and have lied about much more in the last month than TJPC has in the 20 years I've been watching this. In fact the actions of some chiefs over the month make me fearful of what they say or do with juvenile offenders!
Sometimes I find myself asking what the Legislature believed the real problem was to begin with in TYC. Sexual abuse? Financial mismanagement? Top heavy agency administrative costs?
I do recall that they did call in the State Auditor to investigate gross financial impropriety. Did they find anything related to the Harris Administration’s handling of TYC monies? I don’t recall seeing any reports that were any more outrageous than the Eagle Lake facility fiasco or Pope’s extravagant waste of state money. Anybody remember anything – pre 2007.
What were the names of the two guys in West Texas that led the legislature to believe there was a massive cover up of sexual assaults on TYC Youth? Doesn’t matter anymore. Time to move on to the new models.
The new model may be at risk however. Why? Because the Legislature apparently has forgotten the importance of providing expanded support for the great interventions provided by SB 103 in the new program proposals.
How?
In my opinion, the current proposed budget and new legislation for TYC have failed to provide any "significant" new resources into the three entities that the Leg. charged with bringing corruption, illegal acts, and mistreatment to the fore via SB 103.
The Ombudsman's Office, led by Will Harrell, continues to be tasked with outrageous expectations, and has been given too few staff and too little new resources, such as vehicles or investigative tools, to accomplish their vital mission as envisioned by SB 103. The Chief Ombudsman has found himself out in the cold with Rep. Madden and Sen. Whitmire. His only apparent allies are Sen. Hinajosa, Sen. Islett, Jay Kimbrough, and the staff on the Sunset Commission. His job description has been debated, and there has even been Legislation Proposed that could eliminate his dept. Pretty demoralizing.
The Office of Inspector General faces tremendous new challenges under the current program structure. Both Criminal and Administrative Investigators face caseloads that skyrocketed with the opening of the Hotline. They are overwhelmed with high caseloads keeping them locked in their offices on the phone and typing, instead of being out on the unit proactively investigating and looking for ways to prevent future abuses. Neither investigative group has any administrative support staff on the unit to assist with the volumes of paperwork, phone calls, interview schedules etc. They have no time to view video from any of the thousands of surveillance cameras bought under SB 103. Nice, expensive technology with no staff to use it! TYC continues to maintain a financial control over the OIG budget, raising a question about true "independence". OIG is tasked with running the hotline, the incident reporting center, all of the administrative investigator and all the criminal investigators. Their responsibilities doubled and their budget allocation from both TYC and the Legislature has failed to provide for this growth. They move from crisis to crisis. This will only get worse under the new proposed program expansions if new financial and staff resources are left out of future plans.
The Special Prosecution Unit put in place to be sure that serious criminal acts investigated by OIG are prosecuted in a timely manner, also does not have enough legal staff or support staff, that are solely dedicated to just TYC Prosecutions. Most of their prosecutors have to handle TDCJ cases as well as those from TYC. Nor to they have the ability or inclination because of staffing to prosecute kids under 17 for Misdemeanors committed in TYC in the local County Courts because of their limited funding. The kids under 17 are for the most part immune from any legal action for acts that they are committing while in TYC. Prosecutors and their investigators are denied access to any TYC databases, severely hampering their efforts to build strong cases for prosecution. The added procedural complexities of dealing with a system of complicated Juvenile laws and the necessity of networking with numerous District Attorney and County Attorney Offices throughout the state, is staff intensive and time consuming.
The legislature of 2009 certainly seems to have forgotten it’s intended purpose and importance of creating these three entities in 2007. Unless of course, maybe there really wasn't a real problem with youth safety to begin with?
Let us Pray………………………………….
It's now been 6 years (or more) since Ray Borookins and John Paul Hernandez did what they did.
Special Criminal prosecution in Texas as far as TYC is concerned is proving to be a Joke.
Here me. A JOKE.
Our OIO and OIG are on it. But, how typical is it that Brookins and Hernandez have not faced the consequences.
Blame this ON SPU bullshit. I am.
Sick of it.
WHEN WILL THE A.G. INSIST THESE CASES MOVE FOREWARD????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
I have to agree with the above statement that the OIG is a joke. Serious laws are broken on a routine basis in TYC, and the infractions are REPORTED. Violations of Texas Penal Code 37.10 occur regularly. However, I have heard the OIG refer to many of them as "paperwork glitches."
However, it is these "paperwork glitches" that allow the bungling and mismanagement at TYC to continue.
Dirty Harry,
That is an easy out.
If someone signs in and has to run to their car but dont signout and back in they have broken that law.
Now if you are saying people are knowingly fileing reports that are different from what really happened then say that and bring some proof.
I get tired of hearing I have a friend that said this or that happens.
If the investigators are covering up for people that is just as big a scandal as the west texas fiasco and if you knowingly have information that could bring that out but refuse you are part of the problem.
Or you could be making it up to boost your ego.
"CH" said......
I would have to agree with JTP @ 9:40pm and the state of this agency.
Where is the outrage the fist pounding on the chest asking for answers from our elected officials (here me JOHNNY)?
Why have we allowed this fiasco to continue (gross fiscal mis-management) when Ms. Pope held the throne and was creating jobs for her lackeys and renovating the offices, nothing was said (JOHNNY).
Why was SB103 created when the ability to run the programs and offices created were never funded, but they come back and ask why it costs 96k to keep a youth in TYC, but the counties can do it cheaper (once again ignorance on our elected officials part).
I believe Whitsfoe asked the question I have been asking for the longest, "If the counties can keep their own youth cheaper than TYC, will they be required to maintain a 12-1 ratio, have cameras in all rooms, have an OIG, OIO, keep the younger youth separated from the older, etc?
I doubt very seriously but there are those that keep saying this would be good for the youth, please explain?
The ones who continue to say that youth should stay close to home, then look no farther than Al Price and Evins and you will see the folly in this type of reasoning. What should be stated is, "those youth who follow the rules (no drugs, no assaults of staff or youth) will be allowed to stay closer to home for their rehabilitative needs. But, we know this will never come about.
Why is it that the victims never step forward when issues like SB103 come about and voice their concerns, you will always see the parents of the TYC youth step forward. Is this the reason we are in the shape that we are in, not enough victims stepping forward, the parents who had their 6 year old daughter raped, the ones who had their son killed in a drive-by, the store owner who was pistol whipped for $22 and change.
One last thing, where are the two from WTSS at today, Brookins and Hernandez, enjoying a second career working as a legislative aide for "JOHNNY"?
Its truly sickening. The cover-ups continue and the cases get lost in the overage of work? These reforms with on the take investigators and the lege working w/ex-sex offenfers cries out for help. The agency has slipped even farther into the corrupt with these NEW changes. Check out Obama and how he is gutting the country. The NEW tyc management and OIC, etc are also gytting the agency even more. Payoffs never quit in TYC, its who you know that gets you by w/abuse and corruption.
When the two sex perverts do go to trial, if ever, they will get away with a simple assault, if even that. Time and memories and good atornies and failed judges and prosecutors allowed this case to dwindle to nothing, if it ever was anything.
Maybe the NEW and IMPROVED TYC will invest in a time clock for employees to punch in and out daily.
My point is this, many, many people take time off work and never submit the time. Happens all the time on our campus. Principal never catches it and they get away with it.
Some will even sign in and put down the incorrect time they arrived and left. So with all of this time stealing going on, if you were made to punch the clock then the state would save money on all of these so called Free time off days that many are taking.
Not a OIG job or big crime, but its stealing state time! Well its Stealing any way you look at it.
Anonymous 4/05/2009 09:27:00 AM said:
"Now if you are saying people are knowingly filing reports that are different from what really happened then say that and bring some proof."
Been there, done that.
Anonymous 4/05/2009 09:27:00 AM then said:
"I get tired of hearing I have a friend that said this or that happens."
Get tired of hearing about it? Or, are you just looking the other way?
Anonymouse 4/05/2009 09:27:00 AM then said:
"If the investigators are covering up for people that is just as big a scandal as the west texas fiasco and if you knowingly have information that could bring that out but refuse you are part of the problem."
Like I said, been there, and done that. OIG doesn't seem to be interested. I don't think they are covering up. I think they are just like those TYC personnel that won't do their job.
And, by the way, TYC employees steal time in the Gateway system constantly. But, I was referring to much more serious violations of Texas Penal Code. When you have dealt with state enforcement agencies like the OIG and TEA as long as I have, you soon learn that enforcing the law is not their top priority. The top priority is making the problem go away. These objectives are not one and the same. If you remember the character "Mr. Wolf" in the movie "Pulp Fiction" then you have a good example of how state agency enforcement works. Don't necessarily do the right thing, but make it appear that the problem never really happened.
This has been going on in TYC for years and the 'reforms' seem to only have enhansed it. OIG is a joke, just like their prior counterparts. You report things and they do just 'go away'. So much for the improvements in the agency. Some of those fired were replaced with some who were worse or as bad.
It is interesting to see from their questions, how eager some of the committee members appear to be wanting to accept the statements and plans for a fix put on the table before them by the leadership of the two agencies and Sunset staff. I half expected some of them to flat out ask for reassuance by questions like, "we can trust you both -right?" "You are telling us the truth, aren't you?" "You really have a plan to reform TYC from its' evil ways, right?". I guess you can't blame them. They don't have much choice. With a few notable exceptions, their own staff have no broad based Juvenile Justice or Criminal Justice knowledge or expertise beyond dealing with the TYC reputed scandal and so they are unable to challenge the veracity of any proposals being presented by agency staff. Committe members appear overwhelmed by too many technical facts about a subject they may not totally feel they should have to understand and are wanting some closure. The focus now has shifte to financial solutions and treatment programs, not crime or crime prevention. I anticipate somewhat of an "instant re-play" of solutions for the hearings on how to fix the State Schools. "And now, page...."
Let us Pray........
Amen 04/04/2009 09:40 p.m.! Let us pray indeed!
Why not have each of these members come and spen 1 week in a dorm.
They could monitor what really happen on a daily basis and then they could get together with what they witnessed and I am sure they could get some real ideas to help the kids.
Instead I am sure they will come and talk with the big wigs in an office away from the kids to hear what goes on if they even visit a campus to begin with.
Its dumb to expect these members to visit or work on a dorm...they are legislators, not JCO's - grow up. As long as there are long time TYC managers still in place and there are many, very little will actually change. Cherie is a pawn, and she knows it; she will do as directed or pointed by who has the most pull. The lege is lost in all this and the answer is at hand....start clean; get rid of the still connected TYC dudes that are in Austin and facilities management; flush them away and get new people who really care about youth and CJ, families and the public image. Junk the veiled investigators and get real folks that know how to investigate....not TYC and lege contact people.
8:46 - I take it we got rid of you huh.
Merging or not, until TYC rids itself of the new layer between them and the field, called regionals, nothing will change. Depending on this layer to relay reports on the facilities is detrimental to the agency because those not in their good graces suffer the consequences (retaliation). Transparency is still not a vital component of the agency. Secrecy is still hurting the field. Austin does not understand the field and the field does not understand them, it's called lack of communication. Move them out into the facilities where they can see first hand how they operate and what goes on, it would be a thousand times better than depending on the regionals for information that is biased. Perhaps then a treatment program could be developed that would actually work.
Does anyone have a clue on how much money they spend traveling?
Exec. Commissioner Townsend does not appear to be anyone's pawn.
Does she get direction from the Governor's office? Who knows, but it seems that since that's who hired her, they would likely have some input into any plans she comes up with. Bosses do like for their subordinates to keep them informed from time to time, especially in an election year.
I am still very concerned that issues of Youth safety will fall to the background, but with the media watchdogs out there, any new abuses will surface with a vengence. And now, with a Governor's race brewing, that would not be welcome news.
The rather drastic shift in direction that the debate has taken over what to do with TYC, has been very surprising.
IMO Exec. Commissioner Townsend's leadership and willingness to make some tough calls in the last several months over right-sizing, has inspired enough confidence from certain legislators in the House, that they appear willing to look at options for TYC and TJPC, beside a merger.
Both Director Spriggs and Exec. Commissioner Townsend get the credit for the turn-around, at least in the House.
Judging from some of the Senate bills filed that mimic those that came out of the House, shuttering all of TYC is not likely this biennium.
What the Senate concedes next week in their meetings with House leadership will seal the deal.
So I think it's safe to say that Exec. Commissioner Townsend has shown that she can be an independent leader, i.e. she ain't no pawn.
Since her first order of business was to save the patient from the terminal diagnosis, maybe the next order of business is to begin serious rehabilitation.
I hope this will mean some serious re-arrangements in Central Office and Field Administrators. We'll have to wait and see.
If her batting average holds, there will be significant changes. Anybody old-timers who are hiding out or stonewalling her efforts, hoping that she is a short timer that they can outlast, is likely to be history, if she finds out their game.
We can only hope that she continues to support the oversight function implemented in SB 103 for youth safety, as she goes about re-building TYC's image as a credible Juvenile Justice corrections agency.
The ball is now in Senator Whitmire's court. So................"Play Ball!!"
Let us Pray.....................
TYC seems to find a way to bring unwanted scrutiny to itself. Where else could you work and as part of your discipline (demoted from assistant superintendent) be allowed to move from one institution (based upon job performance) and get to keep the majority of your salary plus receive a nice brick house at your new facility? These are the types of decisions that this agency does not need, but this decision had to come from someone high up in Austin (speculation on my part, but most likely true).
ANON 4/03/2009 08:09:00 PM
Shoot me an email with a contact and I’ll tell you all about Gatesville, its therapeutic.
The Sycamore unit was more of an honor school, older boys less violent first timers. I was at Terrace, next step MV.
Escaping from Gatesville was no picnic. Those people did not need any fences, you were in the middle of no-fck-where surrounded by people who would collect a bounty if they caught you, dead or alive. Gatesville had dogs and the most veil evil security red nick ever created by satan, the kitchen.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
oldschool@ironguardiansnt.org
Senate hearing on TYC was canceled today until a consensus is reached.
A concensus about what exactly? I don't understand what you mean.
A concensus about what exactly? I don't understand what you mean.
A concensus about what exactly? I don't understand what you mean.
I apologize to everyone for being redundant with the last question... I'm using an unfamiliar computer that obviously has a sensitive entry key...either that or I've had waaaaaayyyyy too much coffee.
843...No, you didn't git rid of me; but we have had a run in or two. You're not smart enought to get me...or should I say not dumb enough to get me. At any rate, you and many of the new group need proper induction into the real TYC. You're so ignorant, you will change nothing; even though you think you will.
7:04 PM The probation field has been asking the TJPC gang to do the same to see IF they can work their own standards. I think everyone should have cross training on all the issues before judging. I for one think I would like to work at TYC for a week or two so I know first hand what they deal with. Why don't we all do that and then see if we post the same way on this blog.
The never ending saga of TYC continues on the road to ruin. Little has changed over the past two years except for the degrading of the work force and delivery of services at TYC. There have been no true improvements inside of TYC regardless of what the politicians and media try to tell all of us. Corruption and personal agendas block any meaningful change in the operation of TYC. Throw in a good dose of political grandstanding and you have the mix for a total failure called TYC.
To date we have no convictions of the people guilty of the TYC criminal activity. Most of the criminal actors were never charged. The three TYC officials arrested have and will never go to trial. A criminal trial will expose too many high ranking state officials to criminal charges as the rats being prosecuted start giving up their co-actors.
As a tax payer I can only wonder how many millions of dollars are being wasted on TYC to no good end. A number members of the Texas Legislature as well as my state employees should be fired over the TYC cluster. I for one, am looking forward to Senator Kay Hutchinson moving into the newly rebuilt Governor's Mansion after the next election.
Well put....TYC is a full fledged cluster F..u....k
"The tyc should start training tyc emps in the basics like learning to respect one another, and professionalism in the work place, then move on to more difficult topics like communication and team building"
Good advise even for a "state boy"
This 'state boy' can eat your lunch anytime.
Well I am sick and tired of hearing about Randy Turner and Vicki LOBBYING against chiefs on the board. Is there something to hide? The talk all over this TPA conference is how Turner resigned from the JJAT board so he could do what Spriggs and his judge wants him to do. Spriggs is so scared that someone with knowledge will get into her business. They are even trying to keep the previously ineffective advisory council all under her control. I didn't think she could lobby legislators???? Oh, right, whipping boy Turner is doing it for her so it is OK. You go BOY!!!!!
I Hear ya. Wish Randy had stayed at JJAT. Can't believe him strutting around the conference. Does his taxpayers know they are paying his expenses to lobby for a state agency? I think not. Should they pay? Again I think not. Looks like some investigation needs to occur. Is there a hotline for that? Sure cant call TJPC to investigate this one. How about it Fort Worth? You gonna pay or shoulf TJPC?
What we need are people with principals to serve on boards, and to lead and manage others. Our society is sorely lacking in people with important character traits such as courage, compassion, committment, humility, honesty, fairness, common sense and selflessness are hard to find in people these days. Especially in our politicians. Mismanagement, wasteful spending, unethical behavior and incompetence are rampant problems in Texas and across the nation. Nothing can succeed with a solid bedrock of principlas, No one person or agency can fix anything but they can certainly create healthy environments where change, growth and success are possible. As individuals we are ultimately responsible for our success or failure.
I'm sick of hearing everyone whining about TYC. When someone is too violent to stay in the community, what should the state do with them? Does anyone else have any other solutions. Everyone whines about the cost, or that TYC isn't working? Well, what else do you want done. No, the education isn't great, but the citizens of this state aren't willing to pay what it would take to make it better. Yes, the youth sent to TYC need substance abuse, mental health, and other treatment. But, once again, the citizens of this state don't want to pay for it.
If you want to do right by these youth, quit complaining about the cost. Be willing to give up the money it will take to either give them proper treatment or lock them up. Anyway it goes, everyone needs to quit whining about the system being corrupt, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. There isn't enough money going in to it for it to be corrupt. We get what we pay for.
You want to keep these kids at the county level. Keep them. It is still going to cost the same. The cost of treatment is the cost of treatment whether in a county correctional facility or a state correctional facility, large or small. Will it improve "recidivism"? If it would, do you think these kids ever would have been sent to TYC in the first place.
Enough already.
0828...Get off the drugs. TYC was given plenty of money and it chose to waste the money rather than help youth. Either you are partially ignorant of the issues or brainwashed by the Austin elites. The more TYC gets, the more it wants; the public is sick of TYC's management and overall failure.
Hmmn, I forget now.....what was the original topic of this blog post? Marijuana abuse in nursing homes? Might as well be, since the axe grinders are back. It seems there ara as many of them in TJP as in TYC. Must be all the exposure to delinquents. It seems just around 100 posts is where Grits usually has to pull the plug. I guess at about one hundred posts, folks get tired of using their brains.
Can we try to get back to the question of what legislation just might evolve from the legislature?
OK So let me et this straight. Randy Turner, Tarrant County Director of Juvenile Services, is in Austin on Tarrant County's dime lobbying legislators for Vicki Spriggs, the Executive Director of TJPC, to keep chiefs off the TJPC board? I guess Tarrant County Judge Jean Boyd, a current member of the TJPC board, can authorize Turner to spend Tarrant County Funds to lobby for TJPC. I wish my county would send me to Austin so I could lobby to heve Spriggs FIRED for lieing to everyone in the field when she stated she was ok with 3 chiefs on the board. She shouldworry about her budget and getting the county's the IV-E money back, not about something like that. She must feel insecure enough that she is scared to have someone on the board that actually knows what it takes to run a department.
Plato/Les, you and Turner are made for each other, both blind.
9:01 you are correct.
The topic is what happened in the House. The senate pulled the topic today from Gov Reorg so they see the house made some mistakes striking the chiefs from the board.
So, back on topic.
TJPC is scared to allow practitioners on their board because right now they can control the blind puppets. Other state boards have practitioners on them, why not TJPC. Makes for a good business practice to have professionals provide expertise to the board. The new 13 member mega-board should fit Senator Whitmire's fancy just perfect. It gives expertise from the field with 3 chiefs, 4 juvenile judges and a prosecutor to oversee TYC and TJPC. He wants to fix the system, these know more about helping juveniles than the current board does. McClendon Billy Ray, the TJPC board member not his relative Representative Ruth McClendon) does not even know that juveniles don't have cell phones in their cells. I guess we need to install a Wii also?
I guess Hong Kong Fuey heard about TYC's problems!
LMAO...I think that's Chinese for OMG...TMI about TYC!!!!!
Click on some of the Chinese and see where it takes you. As to what the Legislature might do with TYC and Juvie Probation - Screw it up to the max! Think of the worst case scenario and triple it and you will start to see potential level screw-up the Texas Legislature can bring to TYC and Juvie Probation.
Can the leg even look at what the public wants? My gosh, reading the blogs for the past year TYC needs to be reworked, chiefs need to be on the TJPC board, TYC Admin needs to have the fat cut, TJPC needs to hault their standards process, TYC needs to rethink their discipline structure for juveniles and staff, TJPC needs to not have officers TECLOSE certified.... on and on.
LEGISLATORS, HEAR US, ACT, WE VOTE.
Wake up America. The legislators only listen if you are sitting in their office. That is why Turner and Spriggs and her henchmen are so effective, they live in Austin. No way I can drive 6 hours just to visit with the legislators. I'm sure glad Vicki has Randy and Tarrant County's dollars to help do her dirty work. What's the big deal about putting chief's on the board in the first place? She act's like it's the end of the world. Is she that mad at the one who is not afraid to speak his mind and propose this concept? He is who the senate and house should listen to. At least there was some "thinking outside the box" going on and not leaving it all "status quo".
TPA is sickening. Turner and Jerry Williams are strutting around like peacocks thinking they are all bad. I'm not even gonna look their way. THEY DON'T REPRESENT ME.
and, wish someone would let the house and senate know thye don't represent the juvenile probation people from across the state. We all want the chiefs representing our interests. There may be 6 departments out there that don't want it, all else do.
Any idea when they may meet again? I think it was canceled for yesterday/today, until an agreement could be reached.
Democracy doesn't exist in America..At least not the way it is taught in the schools. The majority does not rule. It is a few select people that think they know what is best for everyone..
If probation does not unite in the field with one strong voice, TJPC and a few chiefs will dictate to us all..IMO, if Randy's lips are moving, Vickie is close by pulling his strings. It is not a coincidence that Randy sides with TJPC on just about every issue.
TJPC is not suppose to lobby....LOL..what a joke!! It is happening on a regular basis.
Chiefs on the Board is common sense! Who better to give input on matters regarding our profession than Chiefs with years of experience dealing with the day to day problems in probation.
Some chiefs are equipped to represent us. Many are not and should not be chiefs. You/we know who they are. Don't let these morons on any board!
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
eye eye captain.
11:42 I believe that is where the nomination's process comes in to play. I have seen it proposed that the President's council nominates to the gov. That being said the process is great. The 7 associations nominate, presidents council confirms then submits to appointment's office. No big deal. I think TJPC is fighting it TOO much. They have now lost much of their support of county departments, except for a few brown nosers, and the field will resent their efforts to squash the will of the majority.
What gives Randy Turner and JAMES williams the authority to represent the rest of us when they don'e even know what we think? I am a member of TPA and JJAT and BOTH organizations endorsed the chief's on the board concept as presented by chief Mike Meade. I understand most of the regional chief's organizations endorsed it and the 2 that didn't never were formally approached with the concept. So why should they present themselves as our saviors? I certainly hope they did not represent to Carl Isett that they spoke for me? I have told him otherwise and will again. Spriggs needs to keep from lobbying as I think she is violating some "ETHICS" rule. I suppose she won't cite herself for a ethic's violation will she now.
Someone educate us TYC people about the issues and chief's on the board concept please so we will understand. Sounds like probation has issues with administration like we do. We will support your efforts as you have ours.
Howie
Here's an idea: For the Chief's wanting to be on TJPC's board, lets amend the bill and require that county juvenile board membership include a district attorney, a line probaton officer, a line detention officer, a support staff from the typing pool, a member each from the Sheriff's Dept. and police department, a couple of members from victims of juvenile crime, a former juvenile probationer and any other person/persons (school principal), in other words, stakeholders in the juvenile crime business. After all, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
All in favor say Aye!
Nae!
For Howie:
The concept to place 3 chief's on the board is not a novel item. The justification is most boards within the state already are made up of 68% practitioner from the field they represent. Other states have practitioners on their juvenile justice boards. It is a concept that has met with overwhelming support from across the state with a very few opposing it. The most vocal opposition is of course TJPC along with a few juvenile probation chiefs across the state. It makes good business sense to have the expertise on the board to assure the juvenile justice system functions smoothly and in the best interest of the juveniles served. The buzz word thrown out there has been transparency. If we sincerely wish to become transparent then we indeed need to start here and now. I for one would have no problem with a juvenile board composition exactly as 1:07 states. It is for the kids and I take pride in helping the kids.
Don't allow anyone to shit you. Chief's want to be on the board because they feel Miz Spriggs isn't representing their wants and needs to the board and is keeping stuff from the board.
Many of the prominent proponents are Chief's who resist any guidance/standards, etc. plus those who have had problems with low scores on standards audits and who have been caught up in repeated ANE investigations.
But, if you want Chief's on the board, how about adopting 1:07's idea of expanding participation on LOCAL JUVENILE BOARDS?
You want to spy on Spriggs but don't want the community spying on you?
This is nothing but a POWER PLAY by some in the field against their state overseers
Awaiting a response.
After all, what's good for the goose is also good for the gander.
There are juvenile boards that are comprised in such a manner and they work well, prosectors, school officals, and at large memebers of the community as respresented from commissioner courts. This give the community a true respresentation a juvenile justice in the community
3:21 No one is "spying" on TJPC. Clarification is needed when she presents false info to her current board. Practitioners on the board will provide the insight to the board that only people WORKING in the field can. I welcome anyone to come to my little department any time. I don't give a rats behind about good scores, bad scores, etc. I agree that we are being overstandardized and it needs to stop. If TJPC is fighting it so hard does she have something to hide? It is afterall a PUBLIC agency. Bring on the people who want to look into my business. I welcome it. What do you have to hide? I have attended board meetings in the past and observed the information being presented to board. All the information was not presented at one, misinformation at another one and other ones outright lies told. Other's in the gallery observed and called her out on it but the correct information never was presented to the board. People from the field would have caught it. This was years ago and it continues today.
All of you that don't want James Williams and Randy Turner speaking for you have at least one way of addressing that problem...write your Rep and Senator. Also, don't stop there. Write all the members of the committees that are hearing testimony on these bills, and allowing changes to be drafted into what will be the final bill presented for a vote.
Write, call and request a response. I don't think you probation people realize just how much attention letters and phone calls get in those offices. Make sure and use your dept letterhead.
Another action you can take is to make plans to have you, or someone from your Chiefs Assoc. be present at the hearings. Or, better yet, contact all the officers of TPA and JJAT. Let them know that as a dues paying member you don't like what's occuring.
You want your opinion to be heard then all you need to do is speak up.
There is a legislative process. Work the process, don't let the process work you out of having a voice for what you want.
6:39 Best comments I have seen on this blog yet. I agree 100%. OUR reps and senators need to hear from their public. Contact the state organizations, the newspapers, everyone. That is what Turner and Williams are doing for Spriggs. Contact the author of the proposals to get wording. I did.
I know who Turner is, who is this Williams you are referring to..
Don't bother to find out; both are whinners who go and do as directed. You might find five out of the entire field that could even make a try a the position. We're in a wierd field as is, and this is making the situation much worse. Vote for Kay, she can get the changes we all need so badly.
“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."
James Williams from Brownwood whose judge is the chair of the TJPC board, Ray West. Williams is rumored to have secured a job at TJPC when he retires, which I hope is soon.
Are you on something?
I am not sure I get the scripture references...
8:13...sounds like you need some eye wash, or possible a really good surgeon....I don't think we get what you are trying to say...please translate!
Turner and Williams are not in Austin representing to anyone that they represent Chief's Associations, TPA or JJAT. They represent themselves and their communities/boards. Just because they hold an opinion opposite you doesn't make them wrong or traitors to the cause. Texas is a diverse state and of the 160 or so departments, no one agrees with anyone 100%. As mentioned above somewhere, Chiefs on the big board is an agenda driven course taken by a group of Chief's statewide.They don't like Vicki, they don't like standards, they don't like oversight, they want state money to spend however they choose.
Still would love to hear from all the Chief's who'd like their county juvenile board membership to be expanded so that all elements of the community are represented.
I take it by your silence that no one is raising their hand in support of the proposal.
10:23 pm Just remember last session. There was a bill to ad one justice of the peace and the chief's attacked that bill. No way they would want others on their boards. I have been under attach by this blog and appreciated Plato's support. 6:39pm is right. Write, call, visit but attacking Turner, Plato and Williams is wrong. Please stop shooting yourself in the foot.
I speak as a chief from a medium size county with a detention facility. For clarification I have not been a part of the so called conspiracy to put chiefs on the board. I support their efforts and will speak up to my local lawmakers. First time for me to be vocal but now is the right time. Not to badmouth anyone but I do not think the other 2 have just been representing themselves. My local Rep.who is a high school friend had a visit from them and said otherwise. I do not agree with bashing anyone however I have experienced lack of understanding from out state oversight commission and agree with the concept that experience on the board would serve the state in a manner that would enrich us all. As for public on my juvenile board we have that. Judges, JP, a community activist associated with our local substance abuse authority and a general public member.
From small rural county. Got 1 judge, 1 commissioner, 1 city coincil member and school sup. on my board. Never been a problem. What is problem for TJPC?
6:55 who is the author so I can get the wording too. South Texas is too quiet on this matter. I need to speak up.
JJAT or TPA has wording. Author was chief in Fort Bend. Several chief's associations had language also. Concept is in the Sunset bill.
I have issues with the relative of a legislator serving on the TJPC board and then that legislator writing the bill to remove the Sunset rec of 3 chiefs on the board. Conflict of Interest????
Also issue with state agency lobbying. When will someone draw the line with the drama queen.
Watch what you say about our drama queen, she has saved our butts many times. Hail to the Queen.
Can anyone tell me what government has "fixed"? Seems to me that government never takes action until there is an emergency or scandal and then they go on the defensive and make alot of stupid decisions. They start making knee jerk decisions and create new rules and regulations that end up preventing anything from being done effectively. Sometimes they prevent anything at all from being done at all. They acquiesce to every special interest group, and others they perceive as have any power or clout. Howcan people do their jobs effectively? They cannot.
After a while people get sick and tired of being under a microscope nd having to answer and explain every litle move they make. That is why there is such ashortage of teachers. That is why professional people leave TYC and the like. They can't accomplish anything for having to answer to people all day long. They are treated like bad children and most adults don't like that. Isn't it easy to point the finger when one is not in it? What happens is you whip your good people to death and they finally leave. Our elected officials support crazy, ideas, and can cause great damage by their actions yet they never, ever take responsibility for their actions.
You want people to deal with criminals in our society, adult and juvenile you got to give them some room to do it and you have to show them some support. It's so humiliating when your own agency is hanging you out to dry. It's not whining, it's frustration over wanting to do your job and being unable to because of stupid rules and regulations. Rules are made to protect freedoms, not restrict them and that is where we are today. This is not a perfect world and none of us are perfect. Those that are willing to admit their short comings are usually genuine, humble and principled in their actions. Those who don't are usually wreckless, arrogant and self centered. Anybody you put on a board should be sincere, principled and not out to promote themselves.
There are media darlings out there that have everyone's attention. Steer clear, they have pimped themselves into those positions nad they have personal agendas.
Your legislator cannot repair your engine, fix your colon, and certainly not save and invest your money wisely. Why do any of you think that those guys can fix your children?
Keep in mind again that the issue at hand is public safety. The victim is just as harmed whether the criminal was an adult or a juvenile. It's nice to try to offer a chance to change but there is such a thing as overkill, where you begin placing their rights above everyone elses and that is a diservice to them and an insult to the victims. Not to mention unfair to the public. Yes we want to call 15 year olds kiddos, but some of those kiddos will cut your throat or your childrens. Again I am all for therapy and treatment but you cannot rehabilitate all of them and they are a threat. It's hard raising our own kids, why do we think anyone else can "fix" them? They can't, all they can do is try.
Some of the so called 'professional people' were a big part of the TYC problem in the first place. When it came out about the abuses and mis-management of programs, which these professionals knew about, they decided to say nothing! They sat on their butts, aware of many abuses of programs and youth and looked out for their professional asses. Get rid of all of them and start fresh. This professional busscrap is part of the problem! Some of them were direct parts of the abuse, cover-up and common "I don't know about all this stuff". They hepled TYC get where they are now. TRASH....professionals is bull shi...in the TYC field, and Autin overloards. Be truthful, lack of 'professionals' at times is great.
How about the chiefs junket. Some of these folks are a waste and most of you in JPC know it. There are a few that are OK, but the vast majority are lost in the midst and just treading water. If we get a chance, we need by name, which ones to place on the board. NOT just some turd from a county that has nothing to offer, but bulldurm. Think about it. Some need to retire....NOW.
Same to be said for TJPC staff, TYC staff, everywhere there is some deadwood that needs to go away.
Please tell me how many professionals at TYC covered up program mismanagement, and all this rampant abuse they failed to report. I want to know numbers and names. Name the programs they mismanaged as well. Apparantly you hae some insidere info and must know all of the TYC employees if you know for sur that they all need to be fired. What is a professional to you anyway?
In my opinion a professional is a a person who listens, takes time to determine all the facts before speaking, is not motivated by a personal agenda, not a coward, has some principles, is humble, is sincere, is not petty, and has common .
I HAVE NEVER STATED ANY WHERE THAT I REPRESENT ANY ONE BUT ME. I THINK CHIEFS HAVE FAILED TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF METHODS ALREADY AVAILABLE TO ADDRESS TJPC ISSUES, PRESIDENTS COUNCIL, BOARD MEETINGS FOR EXAMPLE. EVEN WITH THAT I HAVE VOTED FOR THE RESOLUTIONS FOR CHIEFS ON THE BOARD, EVEN WHEN THE INFO PRESENTED HAD FALSE INFO IN IT.
BUT THE ACTIONS OF MANY WHO ARE SO ANGRY AND VICIOUS ABOUT THE ISSUE ARE BY THIER OWN ACTIONS THE VERY REASON TO FEAR A PERSON LIKE THAT ON THE BOARD. IF YOU DON'T AGREE THEY ATTACK YOU AND THERE REALLY ISNT MUCH DEBATE ABOUT THE ISSUE.
THEY CAN HAVE THIER 3, 5 OR WHAT EVER NUMBER ON THE BOARD, THIS SCORCHED EARTH ROUTE THEY HAVE CHOSEN WILL HAVE THEM KING OF NOTHING. AND OF THAT THEY CAN BE PROUD! AND GOD FORBID ANYONE HAVE AN OPINION DIFFERENT THAN THESE PEOPLE...YEP THATS A BOARD I WANT TO GO BEFORE!
NEVER SAID IN ANY FORUM AT ANY PLACE THAT I REPRESENTED ANYONE, AND FIND IT ODD ON HERE THOSE WHO GET TO CLAIM THEY REPRESENT EVERYONE. MY OFFICE HAS YET TO POLLED?
I'M STICKING TO HAVING CHIEFS ON THE BOARD AS NON-VOTING MEMBERS AS A GOOD THING, BUT I WOULD HATE TO STAND BEFORE A BOARD WITH A VOTING CHIEF AS A MEMBER BASED ON THE EXAMPLE IN THIS BLOG OF HOW YOU ARE TREATED IF YOU HAVE A THOUGHT DIFFERENT FROM THIERS.
Right on Mr. Williams! I am not one to visit this blog often, but to see the list of comments that attacks those who do not agree or present a diverse opinion, you are proving that there is a problem with such individuals on a board who must be able to hear variety of opinion, sort through all of it, and make a reasonable decision. Thanks for providing the very best example of why this is a problem!
The newspapers were full of reports of coverups and malfeasance in TYC professional circles over the past three years. If you didn't see them and don't believe it happened; you are the problem with the current TYC. Act like it didn;t happen and it just did not happen. Good sense of professional responsibility....keep it going...is it dark under the sand?
I have worked in juvenile probation since college graduation 20 years ago. Starting salary was $17,000 per year back then. I kept my roster of everyone who attended Probation Officer Basic Training with me. Strangely enough, everyone but me went to another field, some became superintendents, coaches, law enforcement...
But everyone said the same thing, "I've got to get the hell out of juvenile probation."
There was a great amount of respect and admiration for anyone in the field of probation, especially for chief's who committed their life to the work. TJPC had a high regard for chief's, the departments, the local governments, and courts. Not saying there was never disagreement, but somewhere along the way conflict became the end in itself rather than a means to an end, respect went out the door (from administration down and from bottom up). There is no real studying of the problems and then seeking a solution, it has become a world of individuals fighting to push their own agenda just to see their name in the lights. In the end, juvenile probation depends NOT on a bunch of beaucratic standards that sounds like horn tooting, NOT on massive amounts of legislation, NOT even on the existence or creation of a new administrative agency. Juvenile Probation depends on quality people coming to work, and to work together productively trying for a few brief moments in a juvenile's life to alter his/her decision making process.
Most of the rational given for why "we" TJPC/probation is doing A,B,or C is "because someone screwed up." It is so damn demoralizing to see all the people who are trying to seize an opportunity to serve themselves while at the same time occupying key positions of "leadership." To all those responsible, thanks for all the chaos, thanks for tarnishing what was once a glorified job even when the pay wasn't great, and thank you so much for gratifying your egos long before serving others. And on behalf of all those who are watching and who may be thinking of joining the field of probation, thank you so much for acting in such a way that we will think twice for for jumping into your little hell hole.
Did we miss something? A wee bit of bitterness here? Go back to sleep.
To James Williams,
I don't go to this blog often but to see your post and the other post on the subject of chiefs on the board I have to wonder what is wrong with having them on the board? Our jail commission has a "practitioner" or 2 on it. I understand TJPC does not wish to have anyone on the board that might present a conflict of interest but I do not see that happening. I have seen and heard first hand the arguments for the chief's on the board and in my association with the juvenile probation departments in the 5 counties I patrol I believe it would benefit the entire state. I have asked several of the departments in this area today what they think and all agree it makes sense and hope it happens. Asked them about the standards issues and again all stated there are new standards being proposed that had language in it that was overwhelming, especially for the detention facility in the region. I understand many say there are bitter chiefs across the state that don't want standards in their lives but the departments I am associated with all agree standards are a good thing, just not to the extent that the state is attempting to install. One chief stated the executive director of TJPC should listen to the field and the issues would resolve themselves.
No one denies that TYC had problems, What agency doesn't? No one calls for the destruction of TDCJ, the most corrupt agency in the state. Why? because they have a powerful union and lobbiests with connections. TYC has never had such a strong voice and their employees were always paid less until a few years ago and the professional staff, caseworkers, psychologists, etc. are still underpaid. I know many are going to say what you will and I don't care, your opinion is yours. Some of you will never be reasonable. TYC was not an evil den of torture. Yes it has had problems cowardly reactive management and some idiot employees. However to broadly say all of the employees were rotten is just not true. Their were many, many excellent employees that were dedicated to trying to help the the youth. More so than many of you can ever possibly imagine. Please, by all means go work there. The youth are not better off than they were two years ago because the lege rendered and others ripped it to shreds without a thought. They just told the kids to call the abuse hotline and started crucifying the staff. Youth on youth assaults went up, youth on staff assaults went up and treatment was halted because there was so much chaos staff spent their days just trying to keep everyone safe.
Until you have worked in that environment for a while, you just have no idea what it's like.
We had many church volunteers and they were often shocked.We welcomed community and church volunteers in to our facility and urged people to take tours at any time. I saw some idio employees and had some evil bosses while I was there, but I also met some of the very bes people in the world there that really helped those kids. The job was rewarding and we really helped many of the kids. That is something none of you can take away from me or any of the others who really cared about their job.
Now there is talk of boards and consolidations, new models, evidence based programs, more community programs etc. Meanwhile they lay people off and make bizarre, non sensical changes nearly hourly and threaten peoples jobs daily. The kids are still not getting what they were getting before all of this happened. They are being put back on the streets earlier, before even properly completing anything and that means more of a threat to public safety and it is an insul to many of their victims. Think You are dealing with Beaver Cleaver type families, think again. Everyone will see that it's not so esy to keep them at home in the community after all.
837...We've heard all the lame excuses for three years now. TYC itself, its poor employees and lack of management, sealed its faith three years ago. History now. Get on with reforms, new people and new policies; dump the management and so called professionals that caused all this in the first place...any kin to AIG leadership?
I sure hope the legislature realizes the best thing they could possibly do is divert as many kids as possible from TYC and juvenile probation.
We certainly don't need low level, first offenders exposed to people like this!
At this point, the inmates are running the assylum at TYC. The main focus of the OIG is to protect the youth, and to heck with what happens to the employees. Thanks to SB 103, all assaults by youth on employees have to be refferred to the OIG first, instead of going straight to the DA. So, you have youth who commit serious assaults on employees & other youth (hospitalizing some) that are still walking around in the general population raising havok while the OIG does their "investigation." The troublemakers have been totally empowered. The posters above are correct. For the most part, these kids are not "Beaver Cleavers" and they didn't come from TV families. Some of them don't even have families. The people at the top who are making the decisions for TYC don't have a clue what happens in those untis. That's why I say that central office in Austin needs to be dissolved, and all those administrators need to have their offices moved out into the units.
The OIG is wrong for these policies that empower bad youth. OIG is full of erors. However, the past abuses by employees at TYC, is what has caused the backlash currently going on. The turds in Austin, like before only see and hear what they want to see and hear. Thats why I, a professional and many others deserted before the entire ship goes to the bottom.
The empowerment of the youth has been the focus of probation departments against NEW REVISIONS of standards by TJPC. Current standards in place are acceptable and somewhat workable but many of the proposed new standards that TJPC wishes to implement empowers the juveniles in detention centers to where staff are already afraid to even try to discipline a juvenile's bad behavior for fear of a hotline call and subsequent ANE investigation. NO ONE STATES ALL STANDARDS NEED TO GO AWAY, JUST HAULT THE CURRENTLY PROPOSED REVISIONS UNTIL THEY CAN BE FULLY JUSTIFIED. Legislators, please listen. MINIMUM Standards are a good thing. Going overboard is a bad thing. $$$$$$$$$$$$$
What reforms? What new people? What new policies, 8:48? Are you a TYC employee? I don't why I am wasting my time. Are you one of the new people? It's been two years and there is no real plan, there have been a million new people that have accomplished nothing but to cause mor chaos. Policies change daily, and not for the better. Does TYC have poor management? Yes, it really does. Do they have and have they had some terrible employees? You bet.
Does that mean that there were no good employees there? Absolutely not. What agency doesn't? I guess you think a good way to reform juveniles is to allow them to assault each other and staff with no consequences. I guess you think they are just expressing themselves creatively when they run around with their pants down, holding their privates in their hands, telling how much they would love to ---- you. I'm sure when they are allowed to curse you out and tell you how much they would love to kick your --- and ---- your mother and sister in the --- that they are just learning to express their feelings. Yes, what a way to prepare the youth for life in the free. When you have to break up a fight and restrain a youth, I'm sure you'll think it's beautiful that you got sent home, pending investigation. If you have children, do you allow them to behave that way? Did your parents allow you to behave that way? I hope not.
That is the reality currently at TYC, call it what you will. Few people are willing to choose that line of work. I did it for ten years when the environment and I loved working with the boys. Back then the environment was better. Still, being cursed at and threatened was to be expected. What wasn't expected was to assaulted by a youth without them suffering any consequences. Back them We had enough discipline to have group ad make some progress. We did not allow the youth to stand up in group and curse at and threaten staff and youth. Is it so abusive that we tried to teach them some basic social skills? Things like wait your turn, keep your voice down, remember good posture, show respect to others, no cursing in group, no exposing yourself, listen, keep confidentiality, and keep your hands to yourself so we can learn some things in group today. How about, "let's stay on schedule so we will have time for questions after group", "be able to make some parent phone calls and I can call the infirmary aout peer jone's broken glasses." "Oh yes, blah blah, I need to get a good address and phone number for your parents, I've been unable to reach them." "You don't know where your parents moved?" "O.k guys, the church volunteers are coming tonight, please be polite if you plan to attend." "Remember to thank them for coming." If all of that is abusive and punative then my co-workers and I are extremely guilty and I stand corrected. In ten years not once did I ever restrain a youth nor did the majority of the other caseworkers. 99% of the restraints I witnessed were justified. Keep in mind that restraints are to protect the youth, staff, and other youth from harm. Restraints were documented and sent to a restraint review board when I was there and many investigations took place. Some staff got fired and rightfully so in many cases. The majority were cleared because they were justified. If saw staff using excessive force or saying nd doing anything innapropriate I spoke with the staff and to the supervisor. Yes, we were so abuse and evil. All of us, sick perverts we were. My dorm's teacher was so cruel and horrible that she stayed way past time to ensure that her work was done and that she was prepared for the next day. She never left until she had reviewed her paperwork and documentation for the fifty kids on our dorm, Sick, sick woman. I forget about the esl teacher, that evil witch helped my ESL kids learn their group work after the boys had finished her assignments, same way with the demonic resource class teacher. We were so wicked that we even went out to the facility on Christmas day to show vile porn, like a Christmas Carol to the youth, to further poison their minds. We even gave them Christmas cards and attended their parties sponsored by community volunteers. Yep, we were the spawn of the devil. We all need to be rounded up and burned at the stake or worse. I'm just glad to know that there is someone out there that knows how to fix the system and rehabilitate all of the youth.
Amen, 12:33. The same is true at TYC. I agree, moderation is great. The problem is overcorrection to the point of absurdity. It makes no sense to allow the youth to be in control., and that is the way things are. It's a diservice to the youth and a safety risk for them and the staff. It is not, nor will it ever be OK to curse people out and assault them. When there are no consequences for such behavior, the youth only learn that it is ok to continue to do what they did in the free.They had no respect for adults or anything else already. Why make it worse. All anyone asks is that the lege, TCJP and others to think logically and reasonably and procede prudently. Temperence and moderation is a good thing for all.
Kids learn and duplicate what they see. Bad parents and then daily mistreatment by TYC employees just make it worse. There are some good staff, but just look at how the majority of bad staff have brought TYC to its present state. Kids repeat what they see....like it or not, TYC has been and is a bad example for youth.
12:33 and 1:36 you guys have hit the issue on the head. Over reaction and over correction leads to a work environment that turns unsafe for the employee and ultimately more so for the juvenile incarcerated there. I am able to punish my own child by sending him to his room for misbehaving where new standards from TJPC will disallow that. All in the name of protecting the juvenile? My brother works at Al Price and tells me new rules implemented by TYC allows the kids to have the run of the joint. As you stated we do need some minimum standards and what is currently in place is workable. Do not burden us with additional ridiculous rules and make our jobs unsafe. I will leave for a safer environment.
Yes, lets abolish TYC and fire everyone there! Then we replace them with? Oh wait, who DO we replace them with? The army? Nooo... Their not equipped for the treatment demands.... The Texas Rangers? Maybe they could run the units. "One TYC Facility One Ranger" could be their motto. Oh wait lets turn the facilities over to the ACLU!
You know, there more I hear about abolishing TYC and starting fresh from people that have no idea what is going on.... The more faith I have in the stupidity of the commenter....
There sure are a lot of folks posting here that "know" that TYC is an abuse-ridden place full of perverts and sadists. Of course, they "know" this is true because the news media, which never lies or exaggerates has told them this, again and again. The "know" this is true because parents who abused and neglected their children got on camera and made outrageous and unsubstantiated claims about how TYC abused their poor children. They "know" this because irresponsible, self-serving legislators repeated these unsubstantiated claims. Finally, they "know" this because so many posters have repeated this mantra right here.
Were there abuses in TYC? Yes, there were. Have there been cover-ups? Certainly. Were any of these things widespread? No. Is TYC better off, now that all those "corrupt" managers were summarily fired by Ms Pope and replaced by her friends who were about to be laid off by TDCJ? Are the TYC kids better off after the influx of "best practices" imports brought in by Mr. Nedlekoff? Are the kids better off after "Resocialization" summarilly discarded and not replaced with a coordinated program? Thank you, Mr. Whitmire, NO!
Fiscal note of HB 3689 says "The Youth Commission (TYC) and Juvenile Probation Commission (JPC) are subject to the Sunset Act and
would be abolished on September 1, 2009, unless continued by the Legislature."
If this bill doesn't get passed where will the kids go? Apparently TYC and JPC will be no more.
The statement made by someone "There are some good staff, but just look at how the majority of bad staff have brought TYC to its present state." is so wrong and unfounded.
Two men in West Texas were criminals and Perry sent us Kimbrough, then Owen, the female assistane to Owen, the guy from Florida and Ms. Townsend. They are the reason it is in it's present state. The legislature demands things, but didn't fund it. Now, oh it costs to much to have kids in TYC...where you going to put them cheaper? Harris county commissioners voted a couple of years ago to not allow any youth prisons or programs so Whitmire can't build his own personal facility there.
Whitmire can we send them home with you????
10:28 The last revision of the bill has TYC abolished in 2011 and TJPC in 2021. Someone thinks TJPC is the Golden Child and TYC should be reviewed again next session. Scott Why not post a link to the bill the House approved and let everyone evaluate whether it is good legislation or not; Whether is does anything to help children in Texas or just create another level of bureaucracy? Oh yeah I forgot, when bureacrats make the laws common sense is many times no where to be found. Here we go again. I hope the Senate has more sense than the author of this bill. The Sunset Commission said that TYC and TJPC do not communicate and have not for years, even though they office in the very same state building...Hey Lege members...Great solution to that problem, lets make the communication better by putting an 18 member board in between the agencies....That should solve the problem. Have we lost all our abilities to think??? Please someone bring some common sense to Austin...and quit asking the people at the state level who are running around saying they are advocating for kids. Advocates for kids are the people who dedicate their lives to working with the kids! For heavens sake...!
Juvenile corrections - what to do with the hardest juvenile offenders, and how to do it - has got to be the hardest job in state government, bar none. For all of the detractors and those who bash the TYC employees and adminstrations, past and present, I'd bet dollars to donuts you could not do it any better on the budget TYC has had and will continue to have.
Bet we can...If we can keep TJPC from tying our hands...
There are some great programs available to get kids into before they go to TYC but the money at the county level is not there. The pilot programs are designed for just that, keep kids from incarceration. Too many factions out there are demanding kids be kept from incarceration but when a group of counties got together and came up with a solution at Senator Whitmires request they are now being lamblasted by the TJPC director herself. She sould be supporting the efforts of probation departments to assist kids at the county level but just because SHE did not think of it she now has to try to pit the rest of the state against them. I felt sorry for the people in the room at the TPA conference from South East cause she now claims THEY took title IV-E money from the rest of the state. GET REAL. I can do the math why can't she. The TYC budget was cut to fund them. I am upset I will not get any money cause our region did not get in on the pilots in time BUT I am not mad at the SE region. Vicki is doing her best to make people mad at them and that is WRONG. She's loosing it. She never said anything bad about her golden boy in Dallas creating a pilot program. Never mentioned Travis, North East or Harris pilots. She has an ax to grind with the South East region and is showing it.
The house bill sure looks like TJPC wrote it and gave it to them. A few bones thrown but she sure did a good job of keeping the evil chiefs off the board. I don't see that Sunset did anything but make a few suggestions just to have them cut. The 18 member go between board is a joke. It is not a policy making board and not going to open up communication any better. Seems funny the 2 agencies are housed in the same building and have never communicated before but now that they are told to play nice by the legislators they have decided to talk. 18 people now trying to make them talk? Like putting monkeys in charge of golf balls.
What is the big deal about having juvenile probation chiefs sitting on the board? I just don't see the issue but I am just a lowly TYC employee who doesn't know how to think for herself.
Looks like someone feels threatened or has something to hide. If the chiefs are not put on the TJPC board maybe they will be put on the TYC board. We need experience here.
4/10, 10:28 p.m., you are right and I hope we don't forget it. The legislature expanded TYC in the late 90s then cut our budget in the early 2000s, demanding more and more with less and less. Add two (alleged) bad actors in Pyote and a few ax-grinders and grandstanders to the mix and now TYC and the kids are struggling. Only a fraction of a percent of TYC staff were/are corrupt, abusive, or inept. Former and current employees cannot defend themselves and now history is revised every day. I know it's not healthy to keep looking backwards, but these issues will happen again in whatever form juvenile corrections takes in Texas after this session. I think it's important to understand what happened. Politicians should not conduct wars or run juvenile corrections systems.
XTYC
You want relief, you want stress gone, worry about your job, you want be free of bad adminstrators, CO new rules sent out on a knee jerk reaction?
Not being ugly or "troll sounding" here, just really true advice, Find a new job and feel the relief, the joy that brings to your stressed out body. I tell you it is WONDERFUL reading these blogs now and knowing you are out of this mess and you don't have to worry about what they do, your free! After many years of this kind of bullcrap the day came and joy was overwhelming in my life.
God bless all of you whom are staying in the mix and feel there is no other choice for you. Trust, there is a better way of life out there besides TYC.
Very true, TYC is a bleeding ulcer. There is life after TYC, a great life...free of the bull, the stress, the anger, the diappointment daily, the frustration, the bad leadership, the poor employees, the disruptive/insultive kids, the restraints, fixed investigations, staff assaults; the abuse, mistreatment/coruption and cover-ups, misery created by ignorant supervisors, the general sewer culture of the agency. YES, life after TYC is excellent. Need a break? Quit TYC and do anything...anything is better than TYC.
I find this blog somewhat refreshing to know there are people who accept the issues and speak out. TYC I feel your pain. Worked in Brownwood in 70's and early 80's, now in probation. TYC employees have been stereotyped as bad due to a few rotten apples. Now you and us in the probation field are feeling the knee jerk reactions and overzelous administrators at both agencies who have NEVER worked in the facilities or departments. They have no idea what it takes to run a juvenile department other than what some tell them. TYC administrators have lost sight of how to keep employees safe. We send the worst of the kids to TYC but they eventually work their way home.
After going on 40 years in the juvenile justice system I have come to a conclusion that TYC administration is top heavy, TJPC administration are a bunch of minions and if the legislators fail to adequately command experience on the 1 big board or 2 seperate boards then the juvenile justice system will cintinue to spiral downward until we are all looked upon as failures. I will retire in the next few years but I worry about the officers I have trained and been associated with over my carreer. If the increased standards don't do us in then Vicki's false accusations will.
After the lege has witnessed what 'professionals' have done to TYC the past ten years, how they have demolished the agency and ruined countless youth and families; worn out endless lines of employees; why should the lege want any more 'TYC professionals' in charge? TYC has demonstrated over and over, after excuse on top of excuse, that it can not function in any acceptable manner under the TYC professionals culture. Its past time to bring new, dedicated staf to run the agency. Dump the ones taking up space, who are worthless and can't manage kids, and start fresh. Too much has already been given-away to the shameful TYC.
Tart fresh? I think that's what they did: 3 times in 2 years. Wonderful results, eh?
I have been in the military, worked in public education, private industry and for several state agencies. Most of that time as been spent "on the line," so to speak. It doesn't matter what the organization is, for people in the field or on the line, "higher headquarters" is always the culprit. Of course, if you work in "higher headquarters," the problem is the people in the field not doing their jobs properly.
The key is, that the good or bad functioning of an organization is the responsibility of each individual member of the organization. The old saw applies, "If you are not part of the solution, you are the problem." That applies to all of us, myself included.
Yes, three times in two years there was a changing of the guard at TYC. Who was responsible for appointing those people? It wasn't TYC is was the lege. I'm frustrated that so many people don't know TYC, they know revisionist history. No, it is not fair to wage war against TYC.
The reason that TYC remains in turmoil is beacause the lege launched an assault on TYC without knowing what they were doing. They just paralyzed it when they tried letting TDCJ run it, through out te resocialization program, made broad sweeping changes without any knowledge of what they were doing and continued to change leaders, rules atc.. Each time causing more harm to the youth and the employees. Those politicians were not experts on TYC or juvenile justice.
TYC needs a principled leader who is reasonable, wise and genuinely concerned about what is best for the aqgency, not them.
I've been monitoring TYC issues on Grits for a while now (starting when it was strictly verboten by the Pope regime), and I'm compelled to comment because I'm just blown away that this particular TYC-related post has made it to the 188th comment without being shut down. I'm not sure what to make of that yet. As of now, I'm amused and ever so slightly encouraged.
In my opinion, there are no easy answers to the TYC mess. However, I do believe that any solution worth any salt has to include money. Like some of the other posters, I'm not terribly optimistic that the lege will spend any more money on delinquent kids than they have to. It's all about saving money, not about anything approaching actual treatment.
I agree, there has been no treatment in TYC for fifteen years. Perhaps a little at Giddings, but the other institution were mostly warehouses. TYC knew this and passed it off as treatment for all troubled youth. What a joke. The joker caught up with TYC and now the grim reaper is at the door. Why didn't TYC take action years ago since it was well aware of the problems that it hide from the public; even the 'professionals' knew and played along. Now, how can you complain when the public and lege is upset slightly with the agency? The chance was there, TYC blew it and now needs to suck it up and get with what is thrown their way. No one can make it worse than TYC has made itself.
TYC is in the shape it is because it's operated exactly as you stated, "with what it was thrown it's way" every legislative session for the past, at least, 25 years or more. So quit bashing TYC, it has done more good than bad. Granted some very rotten apples created a systemic disease within the agency but it's trying to become a respected agency once again. It will take time. Quit bashing TYC, I'm sure all agencies have skeletons in their closet waiting for someone to open the door so they can gush out!!
Poster 4-11/9:06 pm, seems to have an axe to grind as all the posting done by this person resonate &
echo the same sentiment. Let me remind that person that TYC has also done great things for juveniles that were overshadowed by the actions of a few. Sad but true!
I have it all figured out. You people need to blame your Information Technology people. Your IT folks should be keeping your business process in line which would keep you people in line. They, your IT group has failed you.
You all are right about the quality of people who are attracted to jobs in probation and tyc, be it on the line, in central office, or running the show you people need to be kept in line, more so than the kids you supposable treat or mistreat as the case may be. You are all good workers, you follow your process' and do as your told within the scope of your job description. If you hire the same type of people to architect and manage your technology as you do to operate your agency's then they are definitely to blame for your agencies failures. They, your IT group, should have nailed down your process and hold you people accountable to the process and report on that at the touch of a screen. Yep, that's your problem a good IT group should be keeping you people in line. take a look at the tyc website if you think I'm wrong about the IT groups being to blame. I have come to understand those of us who are capable of thinking outside the box have a fiducary duty to keep those in line who dont. That's my professional opinion, who should I send the bill to?
Other wise my initial advice from the beginning of the thread makes since in retrospect to the above disgruntle ramblings of failed state agency's.
"Whatever tyc does, the first priority should be building the trust between the managerial emps and the staff emps. Y’all have a few years of internal mistrust going on that is absolutely detrimental to your purpose. The tyc should start training tyc emps in the basics like learning to respect one another, and professionalism in the work place, then move on to more difficult topics like communication and team building."
Sounds like you PO people could use the same advise I gave tyc, especially if you people are going to be funded to stop dumping kids in that horrible place.
Also I'm a picky eater and wont eat any one else's lunch but I appreciate the vote of confidence from the above posters.
Check out http://www.ironguardiansnt.org/igarticleslinks/oldschoolontyc.html for my thoughts on tyc. State boy reunion in Gatesville should bring some awareness to the plight of juvenile justice in Texas.
Sheldon tyc#47333 II c/s
You know, I have heard all of these comments for the past two years...
There have been horrible, personal attacks made against currently working TYC employees about things that they did not do, nor could they control.
I think it funny when people talk of abolishing TYC or saying that the "grim reaper is a TYC's door."
Without TYC all you have is TDCJ and detention facilities or private run facilities.
I guess it is not understood that only 5% of youths arrested and referred to juvenile probation departments are actually sent to TYC.
These kids are the worst of the worst. At least the employees at TYC try to assist them into getting some resemblance of a crime free life (with much interference from bad leaders and over reactive law makers.
So it is my belief that the State of Texas and the commenters will reap what they sow....
If we don't have a place to send these dangerous kids where will they go?
Some will be shot by each other, others will be killed breaking into peoples houses, others will be killed by the police, and many of them will kill innocent citizens.
Abolish TYC, great idea.
TYC has apparantly become to big to fail....much like the horrible AIG. Too important to fail. BUll Sh.. Keep feeding the monstor since employees fell it must be saved; even if the rest of the state go to, all for the saving of a failed agency...TYC (too bad to save).
0550...If it could be proven that TYC has actually helped any youth, other than simply get them off Texas streets, you may say their is a need for TYC. Simple truth is TYC has not helped any youth, perhaps twenty of five thousand; no one really knows. It is known that TYC makes youth worse, just by being in their corruptive/criminal culture and watching the role modeling of abusive employees and inept managers. The agency's massive waste of public funds for so called youth treatment, which is not understood in TYC, has enflamed the public. Can't teach a broken down horse how to run in competion. Best bet, put them also out to pasture and get a new horse. Some things are beyond 'fixing', as you Texans say. In this case it is better to throw out the baby, and remainder of the agency, with the other waste. Its all simply too rotton to salvage.
Anonymous 4/12/2009 10:48:00 PM said:
".If it could be proven that TYC has actually helped any youth, other than simply get them off Texas streets, you may say their is a need for TYC. Simple truth is TYC has not helped any youth, perhaps twenty of five thousand; no one really knows."
Well, we do know. About half of the youth who do a stint in TYC are never again incarcerated in a juvenile or adult prison. So yes, they do help youth. However, they could definitely do a better job of it.
TYC needs to accept its fate and lay down, stop whimpering, be quiet and die a humble death. Its over. Way past due, but now OVER.
If the legislature doesn't pass the bill to join tyc and tjcp both department are defunct as of Aug. 31, 2009. So what happens then, do the staff hand the keys and radios over to the kids and walk away?
If the bill does pass, they are giving them a year to organize, so the kids and staff will still have another year of upheaval and not knowing what to expect next.
Maybe they won't drag their feet and let everyone know at the last minute if they have a job or not.
Anonymous 4/14/2009 10:06:00 PM said...
"If the legislature doesn't pass the bill to join tyc and tjcp both department are defunct as of Aug. 31, 2009. So what happens then, do the staff hand the keys and radios over to the kids and walk away?"
At my last visit to Al Price, it would appear they have already done that. The education dept can't even function because the youth are running wild while the JCO staff sit back and watch.
One more and we have 200!
200
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