I'd commented
the other day that prisoners could pay more of their own freight if they are allowed to earn, so I'm particularly disappointed at the reaction of some legislators to news of a program that they themselves authorized. Reports the Statesman's Mike Ward ("
Texas youth inmates paid for work," March 31):
Adults locked in Texas prisons work for free, helping in the kitchen and doing maintenance around the lockup.
But teenagers in most Texas Youth Commission lockups are paid for doing many of the same chores, and Texas taxpayers are picking up the tab.
This year alone, several hundred youth lawbreakers are expected to be paid more than $167,000, according to state records.
Offenders are using the tax-free earnings to pay child support, buy snacks and other items from the canteen, and pay court costs and fines, said top commission officials, who defend the program as being like an internship in vocational training.
Legislative leaders, who say they just learned of the program, are pledging to cut it from the budget and shut it down.
"It's gone — one way or the other," House Corrections Committee Chairman Jerry Madden, R-Richardson , said. "How can anyone justify using taxpayer money to pay offenders for anything, whether we've got a tight budget or not?"
State Sen. John Whitmire reportedly expressed similar sentiments, but filled with expletives. My own views, though, are better represented by
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Steve Ogden, R-Bryan, [who] said he wants to know more before deciding the future of the program.
"These kids are sitting there, waiting to get back into society, and putting them to work is good," Ogden said. "If there's money available to pay them a little something, I'm not going to assume that's a bad idea before I know the details."
Thank you, sir! If there's one critical, overarching thing delinquent youth must learn to function as adults in the real world, it's to exchange their own labor for money at a job instead of stealing, dealing, or hustling, and this program teaches that lesson in the same way as parents who require their children to perform chores (or used to) in exchange for a minimal allowance. It's not like we're talking about high wages or a line item in the budget that even amounts to a rounding error. And since most of the income goes to pay court costs, victim restitution, and child support, there are tangible benefits to those outside the TYC gates from letting this program continue. Again from Ward:
Last year, the budget for the program was $174,599. This year, the budget is $167,642.
Generally, officials said that only older offenders are included in the program, because of child-labor laws that prevent younger youths from working. Participants must have a good behavior record.
The program is authorized not by a state law but rather by a one-paragraph "rider" buried in the fine print of the state budget that allows "students residing in any Youth Commission facility to be assigned necessary duties in the operations of the facility and be paid on a limited basis" — from up to $50,000 allocated for each lockup and $10,000 for each halfway house.
[TYC Executive Director Cherie] Townsend said that though some youths buy canteen items, others use their earnings to pay child support and make restitution to victims.
"We have one youth who's paying $200 a month in child support through this program," she said.
I don't see how cutting this tiny program make sense: It's too small to help with the budget shortfall and it looks to me like the benefits outweigh the costs, though Mssrs Madden and Whitmire disagree. OTOH, if a crime victim stops receiving restitution, a mother stops receiving child-support payments, more court fees go unpaid at counties, etc., I'm not sure that helps anybody. Indeed, despite efforts in recent years to
kill inmate job programs, to me it makes sense to find
more ways for prisoners to earn while inside, for many reasons: As incentives for good behavior while in prison, to promote a work ethic needed for success upon reentry, and so inmates can contribute to society while incarcerated, though child support, victim restitution, etc., instead of merely draining from it. (In Canada, they
pay some inmates below-market wages and then charge them rent on their prison cell if they earn above a certain amount.) So I not only think this is a good idea for older youth, I'd like to see it expanded for adults with good discipline records in TDCJ, and I'm as puzzled why that's controversial as Chairman Madden is that anyone would support the program!
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39 comments:
I've been puzzled by the public comments Madden and Whitmire have been making lately. After several years promoting sensible criminal justice policies, they seem to have developed a real aversion (at least in public) to any program that educates offenders, assists with reentry, etc. Do you have a read on this?
I agree with Ogden, look at it first. At least someone in Austin has some sense.
If you are not going to pay inmates out of state funds for the work you insist that they do (unless they are medically excused), then at least allow the inmates to work for external businesses who could pay them instead. Inmates still work, still have that ethic instilled in them, but can also start paying back what they owe and providing for their children etc.
You can't really have it both ways and expect to balance the budgets.
This program has been in place since 1957 as a line item in the budget. They are just now noticing? Don't they realize the cost savings in hiring kids for 50 cents to $1 an hour to do work they would otherwise have to contract out? What is with these people?
Headline grabbing media whores!
Whitmire has had it in for TYC from day one. Madden is now the self proclaimed juvenile justice expert in the House.
Yes Texas is broke, you two guys have been sitting in your nice little offices for several years and think you have no responsiblity for the crisis Texas faces!
The bloated system that is TYC didn't happen over night. It would stop the earth from spinning if you elected people would ever stop reading your own headlines and really listen to the people that work at the ground level with the kids and offenders you guys keep whinning about.
Everytime I see a hearing online, looks to me like your full staff is seated right behind you getting you coffee and buttering your bread.
This whole thing started out like it had a chance to really be something, but the "shell" bill is being filled up by others than those that do this work every day!
It shouldn't be too long before it becomes the "hell" bill. And thats a shame because Texas had a real chance to make a difference!
Gonna cost Texas millions more we don't have for adult bed space...good job "dean of the senate"! The only thing we know for sure is they will not have a cell phone or your number.
Yea, tyc sure paid us for all them trucks that got seats recovered, for those horse trailers we build, all for the local rednecks. That’s a line item for the workers to pocket. Some tyc emps steal product from the state, some cash, some molest the kids. Every person who has ever worked with a kid at tyc is responsible for stealing something from that kid. A horrible place managed and run by the most spiritually hideous people around. Real Golems.
Kids have been paid 50 cents an hour for the past 20 years in Brownwood and some who did good even were paid up to $2 and hour > we had a boy stay for four years in the program and He was making $2 an hour He left tyc with more than 4 grand when He was discharged...... Why should w pay them when they can get WIs free and $40 Tennis Shoes for just being in TYC? That is Brownwood Ron Jackson Unit I, I bet they appoint a conservator to TYC to control all of the wasted spending tht Townsend has done ..... SSDD
Twist it you may, there is only waste, stength and abuse in TYC and their soiled membership. Wipe their crap away and flush what is left of this inept, worst ever state agency. How many kids have ruined their lives under the pretense of TYC?
Why do Madden and Whitmire say the things they say? Because they're afraid of op researchers like you, Grits.
Secondly, I'd like to see the numbers refined. Just exactly how many youth have used the money to pay child support, court costs, restitution? I'd guess fewer than a handfull. Bet most of the $ goes to the canteen.
Yeah, let's take work away from the under-employed public, give it to criminals, and then face the accusations of 'slavery' when we 'rent out' criminals to free-world, for-profit enterprises.
8:05, you're living in La La Land. If this program has been in place since 1957, as one commenter said, please point to any prior accusations of "slavery" resulting from it, ever, from anybody besides you. Or was that just more demagoguery and logorrhea? Also, the jobs these kids are doing aren't taking away employment from the free world, that's just silliness. Who in the free world will work for $.50 - $2 per hour?
Anyway, money circulates and economics is not a zero-sum game. The things a TYC youth can spend the money on - mainly victim restitution, child support, court fees, and commissary items - all go either to the state, victims or the offender's children. Nobody's getting rich here.
And to 6:10 who guessed most money goes to commissary items, you can bet they take out court fees, child support, etc., first. Also, I doubt Madden and Whitmire are afraid of oppo researchers - I haven't seen a soft-on-crime attack succeed in 10 years or more in a Texas race, and I've seen it fail a lot. Now that crime is down those messages don't resonate remotely in campaigns like they did in the early to mid-'90s.
I don't agree with Whitmire or Madden. The labor those kids perform is legit and a damn good deal at .50 cents an hour. I understand funding the program is an issue; however, once the ledge retracts the raises that corrupt executive director gave her clones, then that money can be applied to the program. It amazes me that it takes Whitmire to attach a rider to a bill in order to force TYC's administrator to retract those raises.
Grits, you are right, if there are fees to come out of this money, it comes out each month first, then it can be used for commissary. The kids who earn the privilege of being paid for doing chores usually don't have anyone sending them any money for telephone minutes or commissary. This is a good program and I hate to see it cut. When WTSS got their budget cut so drastically, they were unable to hire student workers and it hurt because they were so understaffed to begin with in the kitchen. Kids did volunteer to help out, knowing they wouldn't get paid, just to break the boredom.
man, what bs! DO you realize that people in TDCJ are NOT provided with what most would consider basic hygeine items? They do not get shampoo, deodorant, toothpaste, and are limited to one roll of toilet paper a week? That females are limited to a small supply of maxi pads for hygeine, and that such supplies are passed out once per month, not when you need them? If your cycle begin again before they pass them out, they tell you to use a wad of toilet paper--which of course you are also out of. Want more? You have to buy it.
Tired of not being able to get a tiny black plastic comb through your lye-soap washed hair? Ask a friend for a squirt of shampoo--(or even a few squares of toilet paper)and face charges for you and them for traffic and trading.
Tired of stinking to high heaven after working in the fields all day and a friend offers you the last bits of a commissary deodorant they were going to toss? Traffic and trading--again.
Now, why on earth should people not be allowed to make a tiny sum for their labors to allow them to purchase a few tiny BASICS with which to keep clean and inoffensive to those around them? No other state denies them this. NONE. And no other state is as penurious with their "indigent supplies" as Texas.
Before, you were proably on welfare and eveyting was given to you on the lone star card including beer and cash. The whole mess needs reform. Stop the giveaways and keep straight so you don't go to prison!
The cost for the program and the benefit in terms of rehabilitation and motivation for good behavior is clearly a positive for rehabilitation and stability. Wait until they see how much it will cost to hire people to do the jobs they do. The knee jerk of Whitmire and Madden is hilarious. What idiots. Thanks Senator Odgen for some sensibility. When I worked at TYC they had professional staff cleaning toilets on Friday afternoons. Man that was some expensive toilet cleaning? Which is more wasteful? Is a youth in TYC really an "offender." They are going to be released. Do we not want them to learn to work?
Not allowing students in TYC to work is clearly an idea of someone who really has not clue about juvenile justice, rehabilitation, and motivation. Kids who want to do something good can make a little money to be able to have something when they leave TYC.
It's me again-8:05 from La-La Land!Ok, let me clarify. If adult offenders start receiving compensation for work performed while incarcerated, where does the money come from?? From an agency that just agreed to deplete it's capital budget and laid off staff to meet budget demands?? From a state that is BILLIONS in debt (and laying off teachers)?? If we allow outside businesses to 'contract' prison labor at 50 cents an hour, how long will it be until someone cries foul, because that business should have been forced to compete and pay minimum wage and help reduce the state's unemployment rate. If I can reduce my labor costs to 50 cents per hour per FTE and pay no benefits, I can shut down the competition pretty quickly.
Providing these people meaningful work, allowing opportunity for restitution, and compensating victims are all admirable goals, but the obstacles can't be overcome in the present economy.
8:34, you've changed your tune to now say these are "admirable goals," etc., but you're still missing the point of the cost-benefit analysis. Leaving aside for a moment the rehabilitation goals, etc., that you now say are "admirable," if you don't pay these kids $.50 per hour, where will the money come from to pay free-world workers to perform the same tasks? Somebody's gotta serve food in the chow lines, cut the grass, etc.. It's not like the labor performed by youth is make work, nor is it performed for "outside businesses."
"where will the money come from to pay free-world workers to perform the same tasks? Somebody's gotta serve food in the chow lines, cut the grass, etc.. It's not like the labor performed by youth is make work, nor is it performed for "outside businesses."
Grits, the offenders perform that work for FREE now. The staffing on correctional facilities can NOT be reduced any further regardless what tasks inmates perform. Now we should continue to pay staff AND add the cost of paying offenders? Free-world workers are NOT performing these tasks now. Inmate serve chow, inmates cut grass, inmates doe laundry and fix the plumbing. Where does the money come from, Grits? TDCJ is broke. The State of Texas is broke. If for-profit businesses are allowed to utilize offender labor at a reduced wage, it gives that business an unfair advantage over it's competition. We can't rent inmates out to the highest bidder.
As stated earlier on here what happens in TDC is a disgrace with Toilet tissue and maxi-pads for women. Why do we preach love and forgiveness but we cannot seem to practice it. Not everyone is in TDCJ for being a common low down criminal but for making bad choices. Some are even victimless crimes. I am not defending but are we capable of love and forgiveness? This people leave TDCJ worst than they come in there. The system is cruel and brutal. To give someone something is called "traffic and trading" like some kind of drug deal. This is too often seen and done in women’s prisons by those brutal war criminals they have running those places. I have seen and talked to too many women abused down there but no one will either believe or lift a finger to help. Hug someone who has lost a family member "sexual misconduct" not showing human compassion but a full blown sexual escapade. Those are the tough words the people running those places us to make them look good and the people behind bars look bad. The real low life scum bags are the prison employees and now I guess the elected officials have shown their true colors also. Why do we elect and give top state jobs to the biggest low life’s in this state. But then again how many kids will tell you they want to grow up and work in a prison either? I tell you there is one town where the kids will say that. Look no further than "GATESVILLE' Texas. Home of war criminals just like in Bosnia and Iraq.
The tyc staff cleaning toilets, LOL. You have got to be kidding, still cheap labor, I think I pay my house keeper more than a tyc dorm staff makes. Not forcing state boys to work, even a cushy job like the kitchen. What do the kids do all day in tyc, sit around and get molested by staff?
Back in the day we did everything in tyc. The kitchen lady sat at the table read the paper and smoked cigarettes. The boys ran the whole operation. From the field to the plate and we ate well. Cleanest place I have ever eaten in my entire life was Terrace kitchen Gatesville state school for boys. Same in every aria, the boys did all the work, maintenance, shops; it was an industrial complex, the state training school. We were too tired to get in trouble at the end of the day. One dorm man could hold a dorm of 35-40 boys.
Morales vs. Turman and Ruiz vs. Estelle did nothing but turn our corrections industry into a costly bull shit place to be, either by choice or force. I think I’m beginning to see that all these layers of bureaucracy have piled up into a justifiable tax burden of management mandates. State agencies like tyc and for that mater tdc appear to run as a waste of tax money but on the contrary this is a justifiable tax burden because of the need to regulate the types of people drawn to this type of civil service industry.
Like monkeys in a cage I hope you tyc staff have fun scrubbing those kids shitters. LMAO
The people of Coryell county Gatesville Texas are cursed from Gd for what they have done to woman and children for the past 120 years. It’s a dark evil community filled with humans who have no soul. There wealth was built on the blood of children, many of whom cry out from their unmarked graves the only way they know how, mischievously in the dorms of the prison.
11:53, you're conflating TDCJ work programs and those at TYC, which is what the legislators were criticizing.
Any employee or program associated with TYC needs to be fired and shelved. That is the only way there can be a future for kids in Texas. TYC is so holly filthy that it must be scrubbed and washed away...done away with. A new agency can then be started with new unsoiled employees trained to work with troubled youth. We all deserve a new start. Much like the dead bodies indicated above, the past and dead TYC beats must be covered with earth and allowed to fade away.
Any employee or program associated with TYC needs to be fired and shelved. That is the only way there can be a future for kids in Texas. TYC is so holly filthy that it must be scrubbed and washed away...done away with. A new agency can then be started with new unsoiled employees trained to work with troubled youth. We all deserve a new start. Much like the dead bodies indicated above, the past and dead TYC beats must be covered with earth and allowed to fade away.
I would like to know the numbers on the youth that actually pay restitution and/or child support. In the past, there was no system in place for the youth that had TYC jobs to pay restitution even if they were court ordered, so the youth DID spend their earnings on commissary, and victim restitution went unpaid. I have heard of a few cases where TYC youth that had children sent their earnings to the custodial parent that was in the free world. I left a couple of years ago, but I would be willing to bet that this is another smoke and mirror routine pulled by TYC. Show me the numbers!
Same here. Youth did not send money to victims programs. This is more bull by TYC to fool the public and try and look what they are not. Glad someone else also caught these lies.
I don't remember any of my youths paying victim costs or child support. They used the money to buy shoes from mail order catalogs, or free world hygiene items (they had sufficient issued, but it was prison industry items, so most people wanted "real" stuff). A bunch figured out that if they transferred all of their money home before they were released, they would get a "free" $10 or $20 from the state for traveling money when we sent them home on the bus, instead of using their own money for that purpose.
On another note, maybe I missed something, but I don't see where we're hiring out inmates to local businesses. This is about TYC paying juveniles some chump change for doing basic jobs that keep a facility functioning. Most of mine weren't old enough to be paid so they were more than happy to volunteer to do it for free, mainly because it gave them something to do and they managed to get fringe benefits out of the job (extra food for themselves and their buddies, listening in on staff and administrators, etc.)
There were many youth at Giddings who paid restitution, child support and sent money to their families through their measly TYC jobs.
Right; apparantly the youth at Giddings were angels and were really not guilty of any crime; just happened to be at Giddings. Basically everyone agrees this is hogwash, yet some TYC perverts pertend it is all a game and they are on top of all this. Another reason that the lege should wash the toilet from top to bottom and rid itself of the scum in TYC..top to bottom. Its difficult to flush a dirty toilet that keeps returning turds for excuses.
Diogenes, the reason you don't remember it is that restitution, child support, court costs, etc., are taken off the top.
I call BS, Grits. Maybe the holy grail institution (Giddings) did the restitution thing, but hey they had to look good for 60 minutes and all the other media attention they get.
I didn't see those deductions because they weren't being done, at least not for the juveniles I had. Most weren't old enough to get paid so I had a smaller sample size than others may have observed. The ones that were old enough were deadbeats and/or claimed indigence and had had compensation claims waived when they were adjudicated.
In Cherie's update discussing budget issues, an item is of particular note. She said the leg had "•Inserted a budget rider that would require reinstatement of executive level salaries prior to 9/1/10. In effect, this would roll back the merit increases that were given to eight executive staff members to their original salaries." WOW. Shouldn't all the executives/dept heads/section cheifs, etc.have salary reductions? I mean, have you seen their staff wander back from late breakfasts and coffee - or bring their breakfasts back to their office so they can eat while they pay personal bills and talk to friends?
04:24 have you seen how late it is that some of these employees get off from work and are you there on Saturday and Sunday when they are also working? By the way, they don't get overtime or compensatory time for this either. I am a retiree and not a C.O. one either but a field worker who put in a lot of those long hours too and could get them on the telephone any time I needed them.
7:18, you are full of it, CO folds the carpets up at 2pm on Friday and don't roll em back out till 9am Monday! It's been that way for the past 15 years! Go back to your cubicle.
Hey Sheldon I just thought I would mention the Coppas Cove ISD just had another!! Yes another Teacher charge with sexual assault on a student. Coryell County is curse and it is moving from Gatesville to the other parts of the county now the kids in Coppas Cove are not safe.
9:39,
You are a disgrace. No one said they didn't commit crimes and no one said they all did it. There youth trying to make positive changes in TYC and the employment program is a positive thing.
I assume that you want all the little sex offending felons and aggravated robbers and murderers to stay in your local community. Maybe they can move next door to you. Idiot. Or maybe you just want them all to go to prison. Uber Idiot.
Give me a break. Speak of that which you know. Otherwise shut the F^%! up.
Want me to speak about you mamma?
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