The Texas Youth Commission's "Spray First" policy remains in the spotlight this week, with ongoing litigation at the Travis County courthouse and the comment period closing on a new use of force policy.This morning I compiled and submitted comments and questions on the proposed TYC use of force policy published in the Texas Register earlier this month, including input from Grits commenters as well as a compilation of critiques and questions from past Grits posts. See the submitted comments here, and let me know what you think.
UPDATE: Mike Ward at the Austin Statesman reports there has still been no deal struck on lawsuit settlement negotiations related to TYC's pepper spray policy.
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56 comments:
Way to go Scott! How do we go about submitting comments to the register. I found the website confusing and not very informative - on purpose possibly? Anyway...you just about said it all...I have several comments I would like to send also if I can figure out how...thanks guy and have a great day!
Pope Dementia and Bronco Billy Humpster are taking it whenre they need to, but do not care if it comes with Vaseline or not.
They will simply continue until the courts enforce change upon them.
Comments on the TYC force policy may be submitted to deanna.lloyd@tyc.state.tx.us and the deadline is this week. Here's the actual policy they've proposed.
Scott, please keep in mind the policy itself has to do with the high workers comp claims the agency has been dealing with. Yes, better youth to staff ratio's will work but the problem is staff are not knocking down the door to come to work for this agency. Also, the mandated 300 hours of training before a staff can hit the floor. This needs to be amended to read 1) 1st 40 hours on site prior to going to Corsicana for their 40 hours, 2) 40 hours of hands on training at Corsicana, 3) 80 hours on the floor with a supervisor running routines, huddle-ups, group, etc. The current policy does not allow the staff to work the floor until 3 months have passed which in itself creates stress, higher youth to staff ratio's, and does not serve a purpose other than to appease our legislators. TYC unlike TDCJ does not have numerous regional training sights, we have one which is in Corsicana and it cannot hold all the staff necessary monthly to keep up.
In regards to the pepper spray policy, if the agency would have went about this correctly it would have worked for all parties involved. Instead of handing this out to all staff allow just select security staff to carry OC in strategic areas where they could respond in emergency situations. This is still a very wise and viable solution but the agency will not consider this option, it has come down to an all or nothing approach which is ludicrous.
The youth we are dealing with are grown men and expecting 40 year old women to wrestle with these young men is ignorant to say the least, but if they do not jump in the middle of the fight to break it up they can be fired.
"allow just select security staff to carry OC in strategic areas where they could respond in emergency situations"
That was pretty much the old policy, Chuy - there were still 30+ pepper spray incidents per month systemwide before the policy changed. Pepper spray was never forbidden, just restricted to emergencies. Now it's "Spray First."
There will be a public hearing on the proposed rule on December 3rd at 2:00 p.m. in Room 1410 which is on the ground floor of the Brown Heatly building, 4900 North Lamar, Austin, Texas. If you have problems with the proposed rule, you can testify in person at this hearing.
No Scott, the old policy did allow OC to be carried but it has not been for the past two years with the exception of riots and STAR Team issues. The old administration did not want staff carrying this period especially after the Evins incident. My point is allow the usage in a controlled environment with only highly trained personnel allowed to carry it that goes through training every 6 months on proper usage. By allowing all staff or all supervisors you open the door to abuse which we have sen over the past 3 months. It can be used as a valuable tool but not for the sake of driving down workers comp claims and for not hiring more staff to achieve the 12 to 1 ratio.
Good work Grits - keep it up!
BB
Chuy, my point was the old policy would allow what you proposed with zero modifications, from my reading. That's how it was intended to work post Morales v. Turman, however Dwight Harris ran things.
Also, FWIW, TYC was reporting around 30-80 OC spray incidents a month prior to the change in policy. (See stats in this Statesman clip.) I don't know if those were all STAR team episodes or what, but it catapulted to 251 the first month after the policy changed. best,
Let's not assume these youth are rational human beings. The spray first policy may well be the way to go to reduce injury to youth and staff. Facing a tough youth with balled-up fists without immediate backup may render the use of pepper spray appropriate. It's senseless to risk physical injury to both parties. As with any force, personnel need to be trained and retrained.
At this point, I'll defend its use before physical restraint until proven otherwise. Most experts in the field and other critics have probably never had to physically handle a youth or adult prisoner.
3:09, youth get sprayed when they're not attacking anyone, and youth who are onlookers get contaminated, too. You're painting a picture that makes it seem like spray is used only when youth are swinging at or physically attacking other people, but that's not the whole picture.
As long as pepper spray is relied upon as a "humane " crutch, employees will become more reliant on it and less motivated to learn techniques that require more patience and less violence. TYC should move forward with proven methods rather than backwards into an us vs. youth, TDCJ mentality.
I realize that's very difficult with the staffing shortage. There's a very real danger, though, that pepper spray is viewed as a harmless form of behavior control because it doesn't break bones or cause concussions, and tired and frustrated employees may find it easier to gain compliance by spraying a kid instead of talking them down or separating them from an escalating situation. It's not because they're bad people. It's human nature to take shortcuts and grow weary of having to fight battles all day long. But these things cannot be excuses for causing excrutiating pain to a kid in captivity when there are alternatives, and a better system needs to be developed.
You are right on, 3:41.
Pepper spray can have a place in dealing with certian very high risk situations, such as those where a youth has obtained a weapon, is a serious imminent threat to others and less drastic interventions have failed.
The problem with pepper spray is not just the potential pain or injury to a youth (or even bystanders). It is the change in relationship dynamics between staff and youth that its ready/frequent use creates - especially in the hands of less trained/experienced staff. As 3:41 notes, reliance on pepper spray reduces the utilization of other, often better, non-violent intervention strategies. Using weapons on youth reinforces their own deviant perception that "might makes right" and that the person who is bigger or stronger (or better armed) gets to have their way. This lesson is not a good one for TYC youth. They need to see staff role-model nonviolent, problem-solving approaches wherever possible. Obviously, misusing physical restraint can send the same message so that is no simple answer. Any kind of force can be misused. However, my experience was that many (but not all) staff will try more non-violent, non-contact interventions if their only alternative is a physical restraint. The real answer is to find a way to reduce the overall level of violence in TYC facilities by everyone - youth and staff. High levels of pepper spray use do not accomplish this. The best way I can see to do this is the route TYC was trying to take before all this fiasco came down to begin with - reduce group sizes, increase staffing ratios, and improve staff training. Of course, this will take serious money from state government and decent treatment of staff so the agency can retain the numbers they need. The trained and experienced JCO staff I knew at TYC could talk down almost any youth if they were able to catch the situation before it escalated out of control and if they had the opportunity to attend to the upset youth personally. When one or even two staff are trying to herd 24+ youth, that just cannot happen. The staff cannot be proactive in those cases and all they can be is reactive. This is a dangerous situation and I don't blame many staff for wanting pepper-spray in a situation like that. Most of us would. But in the long run, it is not the answer.
>Don Brantley
Don, I agree with you and worked with you prior to you leaving. The real issue we are facing presently is trying to recruit staff that want to work for this agency. I firmly believe pepper spray has it's purpose and can be a valuable tool but not the answer. The problem we are currently facing are staff numbers and the ability to retain good folks. The stigma this agency is currently in keeps all that would like to make a career out of corrections far away and the factory jobs more appealing than putting up with the day to day misdirection currently taking place.
I agree with Don.
If staff injuries is the excuse for pepperspray use, why not use tasers,or stun guns, or even real guns? The pepperspray solution is a lazy short term solution. It will not solve the staff shortage problem and will lead to other problems, possibly even more organized resistance by youth, i.e. riots.
A further possibility is that pepperspray usage may be more restricted than the current rule allows if a court comes along and enforces Morales.
I sympathize with the JCO staff in the current environment, but pepperspray is not the cure all.
Howard A. Hickman
Pepper spray is not the answer to TYC's problems for field staff. Until they fix the abuse and retalation,supervisor that are out of control, there want be anyone to use that pepper spray but the imates.
I would like to remain with TYC until retirement but at this point I don't think I can make it the short time I have left with this agency. Staff after staff say they want out and are looking for something better. They say they like the job, but can't deal with daily problems and this is not from kids.
No one will listen or do anything about anyone who is causing havac, but the good staff always are blamed for situations and then they leave or forced to leave.
Until TYC revamps its program and makes it a good place to work, nothing will be fixed. By good place a place that is fair to all and listens to those in distress and takes actions to correct the problems.If your not in a position to rule over someone then your screwed.
There seem to be no easy answers for TYC in its current state. There were staff shortages even before the current TYC problems. I worked at TYC for many years and there were always openings for JCO. I cannot remember when we were fully staffed at our unit. Parts of Mart never opened due to the lack of staff. Staff shortages is nothing new at TYC, it has only gotten much worse in the past months. With more people walking away every day than are coming to work for TYC the outlook is very grim.
Pepper spray will not keep the doors open at TYC nor will it be the all inclusive protector of TYC staff. Pepper spray can be lethal. There have been cases where police have used pepper spray and an allergic reaction killed the person sprayed. One can only imagine the repercussions from a youth dying after being pepper sprayed at TYC. Spray first is not a good idea!
No agency can continue to exist if they have no viable workforce! Staffing is the major problem facing TYC and has been for years. TYC workers have historically been treated badly, building a strong negative reputation for TYC in the available employee pool. When people would rather work at the local hog farm or chicken plant than work for TYC there is a major management problem! Without the required level of quality staff all of the other problems facing TYC are pointless to consider including pepper spray. TYC is a dying state agency! As qualified staff dwindle away the agency moves closer to its final days. I can only feel the sun is about to set on TYC!
By FTM
Perry has room in his big mansion.
We just send them all to Austin for weekend visits.
Bet he would spend more than 10k a month (of our money) for another place to move too.
What does it take to impeach inadequate lawmakers in Texas?
You people are funny,pepper spray is not the answer.Since when does TYC staff have to stand toe to toe with a jr.convict.Let's just get everybody hurt.Pepper Spray is no big deal.
Joe
I agree, the sun is slowly setting on TYC if we make it two more years will surprise alot of us.
The atmosphere now is if you don't like what I say or do, hit the damn door or shut up and take it. The power tripping is out of control and no one will stop it. People with no power seem to think they have power. If some one is out to get your job they eventually succeed in either making it so hard on you, you walk off the job or they get you fired with their lies they tell.
It always is with the staff that are doing their jobs and the ones that are just drawing a check are the ones getting their way.
This agency is worse than it has ever been. Some pepper spray ruling is not going to fix it.
As long as you have staff that are overwork and beatdown daily on their jobs nothing will make an impact on fixing TYC.
If these people would concentrate on the well being of kids instead of their co-workers or staff they supervise then maybe the kids would not be so out of control.
We are self destructing at this time. But what is funny is when we implode everyone will go down so where will that leave all those righteous bosses and evil ones? I think they will be in those unemployment lines too with out that retirement check. Bet they have not thought that far ahead.
The only solution is Perry appointing a new conservator who would fire the TDCJrs's asses. Maybe then morale could change and we'd get our staffing back up. I wonder if the problem is finding someone good who is willing to take the position who knows their job will end at the end of this biennium when we get a new board.
Don is right. When he first came to work at Crockett, the place was considerably smaller, there was low turnover, and there was no pepper spray. We managed and we had very few staff or youth injuries.
If our political handlers had any smarts, they would bring back Don. He is a juvenile justice expert, and he has a long history of successful management experience inside and outside of TYC. Old Salty
We are now back to the original policy, at least unless and until the new policy that is posted in the Texas Register is approved.
Ms. Pope now that you have figured out that the "Were not paying your overtime" was a stupid mistake. Get rid of the black pants and black shoes and try to score some points with your staff. I really cant believe your this ignorant to make underpaid staff to buy their own black pants and shoes, or are you??
I don't understand why it is still being called pepper spray. It is OC spray and I thought that it is a much milder potion.
8:24 yea shes that stupid, Dapope has spent thousands and I mean thousands of dollars on carpet for the admin. buildings for several campuses. She picked the color a ugly bright blue. What a waste of money. There are dorms that have not had new carpet in over 10 years and amin gets new carpet.
Good one pope! go blow so more money dahhh!
Howard, can you answer this just for curosity.
Is it not a state or federal law somewhere that says if you force someone to wear a uniform that you(the company)must supply that uniform.
Now TYC has wasted money on those god awful shirts and paid for them, but they are not supplying the rest of the uniform.
I know from past experiences in management jobs that if the company requires a uniform then he must supply it to the workers. My boss at that time was a lawyer.
I also know that my husbands job requires him to wear company uniforms and jeans are part of that uniform and they supply the shirts and the jeans. They get new shirts and jeans twice a year paid for by the company.
So how can TYC make us wear black pants (no jeans) and black shoes if they are not paying for them.
Good to see your name again Don, I worked with you while you were in Crockett. After working for tyc for 25+ years there is no doubt where the agency is headed if someone dont wake up quick. You have new staff training new staff, all the veteran staff have quit or been run off. Need to go back to dealing with behavior instead of creating behavior. Make the youth held accountable for there mistakes and behavior.
Its called old school for you new guys at CO.
OC spray is here to stay!
Grits,
I find it interesting that the judge in this case is having the parties reach a settlement. What will she do if that just isn't possible?
Why would the judge issue this order without clearly ruling whether or not TYC is out of compliance with Morales? This seems like the path of least resistance IMO.
Perhaps the appeals options for the plaintiffs aren't great, and TYC knows this, which may be why they are so stubbornly fighting even this pretty mild settlement that seemingly will still constitute a blatant violation of Morales regardless.
My view is that there is a very good chance that the feds will eventually intervene if neither the state courts nor the lege take any real action. In any case, it is likely that the DOJ is going to look very different this time next year, and may take enforcement of civil rights more seriously.
From a purely pragmatic standpoint, why would Texas legislators want to wait for that to happen? Makes no sense.
Even as we speak, the Congress is investigating boot camps, and is about to re-authorize the 1974/2002 federal Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention Act - which means the Texas case could wind up being discussed in Congress.
There is a growing national interest in the pathetic state of juvenile justice generally that was allowed to fester since the 1990s.
BB
If I can't use pepper spray at a kid with balled up fists gunning at me, then I'm going to knock him out and then file criminal charges on him.
Pepper spray is far, far less lethal than physical force.
Today we get a memo outlining the how the use of force policy should be intrepreted. This memo basically retracks all the stupid no policy drive directives given by Billy Humphrey on how to use force. When will someone take action on Billy? He does not follow policy, he use intimidation or threats to gain compliance if questioned. The executive director can not be blind to this? If this was a TYC staff hired prior to 2/07 they would have been gone long ago. Pope show some class and deal with him.
I don't know of a single soul at TYC that isn't looking for another job. I am just dying to know who is going to watch the kids???? I am talking about people who loved working for TYC for years. It is so discouraging and depressing. I am really afraid for all the good people working there now, and for the kids, and for all of us who will be feeling the painful and frightening results of releasing a huge population of un-rehabilitated, angry young people back into the neighborhoods of Texas. I am ashamed of the leadership in this state and the mess they have made (the gov and lege). They took a broken ship and sunk it!
I think everyone would agree that we are going down quick. Their is a new directive daily. Their are a lot of chiefs with little knowledge. The legislature or governor need to say enough is enough and bring in executive leadership with juvenile justice background. It doesn't matter where they come from but the current leadership needs to move on to new careers.
10:05 I so agree with you. I used to love working at TYC and really felt like I was making a difference in some of those youths lives. However, it just gets worse and worse. I have worked for TYC for over 11 yrs and I honestly can't remember a low this low. Then, when I think we have finally hit "rock bottom", I'll be darn if it doesn't get worse. I am close to retirement, so I have no options but to hang on, however, I honestly would not recommend anyone to come work for TYC. I do not want anyone to endure what we endure on a daily basis. Talk about post trauma , oh my gosh I can't remember the last night I slept a full night. The stress is overwhelming.Almost everyone I work with is on high-blood pressure and/or heart meds. It is really a crying shame that we have sunk this low into the pits of hell.
9:11,
There are legal problems with the uniforms. My initial concern is the lack of authority to purchase uniforms in the first place. Unfortunately the current administration has not shown itself to be concerned with legality.
I might add that I noticed this morning that TDCJ is adopting the black pants polo shirt uniform. I would bet that TYC did not originate the idea but copied it from long term TDCJ plans.
Howard A. Hckman
Howard,
So this is one of those, do it or hit the door resolutions to this subject? Its not the uniform it (well, yes it is) but the point of the matter that they are once again not following the law.
What adds insult to this uniform idea is that not everyone on the campuses are wearing them. Only the few that have recieved them actually have to follow the dress code, while others are walking around free of this directive due to the fact they do not have anymore or if they do, these people claim they want fit them.
So what can we do about this ordeal?
Howard if a staff chooses not to buy black slacks or boots can they legally fire them or discipline them? We can wear the shirts since they bought them but the other seems to be a concerns from all the staff I speak with who cannot afford this extra cost.
When I first came to TYC over a quarter of a century ago, the facility I worked at had 3-5 people in the community applying for every job opening. The pay as adequate (not good, mind you...but more than MHMR paid at the time, benefits were extraordinary in comparison with most employers (except for some California and Yankee firms that brought their benefit packages with them, e.g. IBM, Motorola); in the rural areas where most TYC facilities resided there was little that could beat it. The exception was the oil patch in a boom. Now we have pay that hasn't kept up, even for the JCO's who got parity with TDCJ a few years ago, few merit raises outside of Austin, miniscule across the board raises from the legislature and mandated costs like uniforms. Even the benefits have deteriorated with the 3 month wait for medical coverage (wonder if that holds true for the legislature or the governor) and inferred threats regarding not being obligated to pay for retirees medical or even their retirement.
In the good old days, staff worked together by choice, were offended if another staff abused or neglected a kid, spent their own money to make sure students had extras, like bbq's and clothes to wear home.
Most of us can tolerate the changes in money and benefits. Very few are good at accepting the total disregard CO has for the field. If the use of pepper spray was really to protect staff, we might appreciate it; unfortunately, it is only to save money. Saw a great start today: 2 (yes that is 2, as in more than one) emails from D'Pope(okay, turned out somebody else sent them, but at least at her direction)... clarifying the pepper spray/use of force policy (back to the original...but admittedly better discription of under what circumstances) and 2) reinstating OT pay (albeit that one was a little flat since Wade Phillips' memo came out last week and was posted on buildings). The fact that these are the only 2 memos I have received since D'Pope came to the agency so many months ago (okay, she may have sent one telling us she didn't read her email),demonstrates a major fault in the agency these days. I remember calling Neil Nichols on at least 2 occasions; Linda Reyes on 2 or 3 and Corinne Sanders on at least a half dozen. I am essentially a peon who sometimes needs information, so if they weren't in, I would get a call back from them. In the absence of an organizational table, I have no way of knowing who to call; whole departments have disappeared with no notification that they are gone.
Is this anyway to run an organization?
here is an idea fire those worthless peices of @#$@$@ and bring back Don Brantley
pepper spray is not a cure all thats right but it is a very big deterent Im getting real tired of all these people saying what is good and what is not when the people have never been on the floor with these so called kids.
After 17 years in corrections 14 as a supervisor Im only still at TYC for the kids the rest can go to hell. sorry but thats how the over worked and under payed and way not appriciated staff feel. There are alot of kids that are truly trying to change and alot are faking it to make it. But for the rest of those little bad asses peper spray is a must and for anybody who feels its not come work for me and show me how to do it please and help would be nice. We are not getting it from the adminastration there to busy killing there staff to llok good for the idiots in charge know and for the glorified case workes that are PS's lol lol what a joke we have supervisors that have never been a JCO telling us not showing how to get it done. wow what is happening to this agency that i have given blood sweet and tears to not to mention a marriage and time with my own kids.
TYC has always been run "my way or the highway." The only difference now is that the ones who used to say it are the ones they are telling to take a hike. The problem with the present management isn't the change, but the lack of change. I'm still in "wait and see" mode, but I do know that bringing another bunch leaders at this point will not solve anything. If you still have a job with TYC, you are our only hope. You can quit, but if you stay you will be part of the new program eventually. Gov. Perry has bigger fish to fry, and he's not worried about us. These people are the new TYC whether we like it or not. Those of you who are already gone, I wish you luck in your future endeavors. You should do as Chip Harrison loved to say. "Go and be successful somewhere else."
11:15,
If I could not afford the mandated uniform, I would file a grievance to document it.
I doubt that any termination based on a failure to wear the required uniform after such a grievance would ever be upheld.
Howard A. Hickman
Grievances are not worth the paper they are written on if your an employee back then and now. Especially if they involve a supervisor. I don't say this as disgruntle, just experiences that all have experienced with the old crew and the new crew.
I believe, Howard they would simply tell you to find away or find another job and it would be upheld. If that did not get you gone then they would find another reason to do it. This is sad.
6:51,
A grievance may not mean much to the current TYC administration but it will mean a great deal to a jury who hears someone was fired because he could not afford a uniform or to the TYC hearing examiner who hears the termination case. I know the law and the personalities. I trust my judgment.
Howard A. Hickman
Howard, 651 here.
Your imput is valued and thank you for posting and helping all with your knowlege. I was not trying to be mean, just the way I and others feel at this time.
Please take note: our primary opportunity for survival will come with grievances; grieving retaliation is a good example. By documenting that cost, the absence of OT that might have made it possible to pay for etc., we set the standard; any response can be seen as retaliation, but not if we don't set that standard. Of course, prayers, lighting candles and sticking pins in dolls might help too.
Health Hazards of Pepper Spray
C. Gregory Smith, MD, MPH, and Woodhall Stopford, MD, MSPH
http://web.archive.org/web/20000817004624/http://www.ncmedicaljournal.com/Smith-OK.htm
Scott, apparently the two sides settled to keep the old use of force policy in place but this is a smoke screen based upon TYC's new policy they filed with the register last month. The new proposed use of force goes up for public comment this Monday. Basically TYC knew they could not reach an agreement and decided to wait for the new policy to unfold so they could legally spray any kid that moves. How can this new policy be stopped? And how can those that violated the old policy be held accountable for violating a court order and an agency policy?
Howard,
I have to disagree with you about the hearing examiners, Pope has them in her back pocket.
9:10,
I believe I know the hearings examiners better than you. I would not categorize them being in anyone's pocket. They follow the written policies and the law unlike the TYC administrators who in some cases take it upon themselves to ignore the policies and the law;
Howard A. Hickman
Howard, I agree with you about the Hearings Examiners. I often thought one of them, at least, was for too pro-employee. The problem is that these termination cases are no longer going to Hearings Examiners. There is a lawyer who was brought in from elsewhere who reviews the terminations and makes a ruling without a hearing. Bing, bang, done! This person is not one of your former colleagues.
12:40,
The only outside lawyers hearing cases that I am aware of were the SOAH judges that were on contract due to the mass of terminations caused by the crimnal records terminations.
Howard A. Hickman
I do know that a number of staff have been fired where I work, and they did not get the benefit of a termination hearing - just a letter saying their case had been reviewed and the termination was upheld. It is not like the old days when you and I were often on the same side trying to convince an examiner that so and so's termination was justified.
MaryJane...
Pepper spray is cruel and unusual punishment as stated in the landmark federal court case known as Morales v Turman which were brought to light by judge William W.Justice. So TYC is above the law who does'nt follow there own policies abd laws!
Not to get off subject here is
the agency's roots extend in nineteenth-century in 1859 the Legislature acknowledged the need for seperate correctional facilities for child offenders, in 1887 funds were approve to build the Gatesville State School for Boy's. The age of adult criminal responsibility, which had been eight yrs.old in 1836 and nine yrs.old in 1856,was raised to age seventeen in 1918.
So how much longer does TYC and Legislature need to implement more policies,laws and not abide them but violate them with two options #1-resign or #2-retire?
These youth are not being treated like human beings muchless than animals.There was a case in SanAntonio,a man was being charged for killing his girlfriends animals99yrs.
This is a wake up call for our nation,once these policies and laws are implemented would it also be enforced in our SCHOOLS as well??
Look at the spanking issue now,now will we be told not to spank our child or discipline in a proper manner,Aw let's just send our kids to Bootcamp or TYC it seems that the Governments plans for our youths future is to walk them through the "PIPE LINE TO PRISON".What an Education.
What happen to"NO CHILD LEFT BEHIND".
Question for Mr.Hickman out of curiosity if a youth is put through a Level II hearing having the Caseworker,JCO guards as the Judge,Prosecutor and Advocate in which this youth has waived his presence and asked for his other(parent) to represent him as his Advocate but was forced in the hearing what would you say any different now since you are no longer with the agency?
Boy, that last one was a conversation stopper!
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