Monday, August 13, 2007

R.I.P. Victor Montano: Houston graffiti artist

A Houston graffiti artist was killed while being chased by a police officer in New Orleans (I'd linked to a clip about the incident at the end of this post).

The photo at left from the Times Picayune is the piece he was working on when he was interrupted, beginning the chain of events that ultimately killed him. Dirty Third Streets, a Houston blog focused on graffiti and street art, lamented the tragedy:

Sounds like it was an accident. But also sounds like it most definitely did not have to happen the way it did.

Here’s a photo of the kid’s work, courtesy of Zudokato. If anyone knows of any other pieces around town, hit me up so I can run and snap a photo.

Sad day. Sad day, indeed.

I agree it sounds like an accident, but I also think that the case suggests possible policy changes that might have prevented it. Here's a synopsis of what happened from the Times Picayune:

Victor Montano from Houston had been in the New Orleans area for about two weeks, Kenner Police Chief Steve Caraway said Friday.

An East Jefferson Levee District police officer caught the boy spraying graffiti on the floodwall Thursday about 4 p.m. along the floodwall south of Vintage Drive. ...

"When he saw the police officer approaching, the male took off running," Kenner Police Chief Steve Caraway said Thursday.

The officer followed in his Levee District sport utility vehicle, and it appeared that the youth was going to jump a fence, Caraway said.

As the officer's vehicle followed, the youth tripped and fell in front of the truck, which hit him.

What a tragedy. I have several questions. None of them are meant to be accusatory, I'm just seeking to draw lessons from the event.

First, I mentioned recently that many cities were giving over certain public spaces to graffiti artists as a concession to keep graffiti out of areas that harm businesses and neighborhood culture. Aren't storm drains and flood walls precisely the kind of public space where it doesn't really matter if the wall is blank or painted? Perhaps consideration should be given to turning such areas into graffiti-friendly spaces .

More to the point, is stopping the activity worth risking the kind of worst case outcome experienced here? I don't think so. If it's really that important to keep the wall clean, the Graffitibuster truck is the way to go. Developing capacity to powerwash off graffiti pleases businesses and discourages taggers who's goal is to place graffiti where, over time, in the words of a Dirty Third commenter (see below), they'll still be "going strong." Rapid response cleanup eliminates incentives. Giving graffiti artists substantial public space adds a carrot to the stick.

Something else comes to mind here: New Orleans is in a full-blown public safety crisis, short on officers, jail space, public defenders, you name it. The murder rate there is the highest in the country and then some, making the bloodiest regions of Latin America look tame by comparison. Why expend resources chasing this guy? Can officers exercise no cost benefit analysis or discretion at all?

I don't blame the officer, I'm sure he did exactly what he was trained to do. But that training and departmental policy led to a terrible outcome, so perhaps, with 20/20 hindsight, there's a better way to handle such matters.

I don't know all the answers, but this case shows the stakes are sometimes higher than just who does jail time or what's written on the walls. In fact, this reminds me to remind readers. Never, ever run from police. I don't care what is your reason or whether you've got a gun or drugs on you. Don't run! A lot of people (including those who run, police officers, and also innocent bystanders) die or get seriously injured in police chases (as evidenced in this instance, even on foot).

Plus, as comedian Chris Rock puts it, if an officer has to chase you, he's usually bringing an ass-whipping with him. That's especially true for young people. Running invites a worst outcome - this is just one example among many.

For those in Houston, another Dirty Third Streets commenter and fellow Houston tagger suggested where to see Mr. Montano's extant work, declaring:

man this is sad. most of his throw ups were in great spots and some are still going strong. i mostly see his work on highway 6 and clay road and some on barker cypress, and west little york going to barker (look up, its on a building top). ill try to get some more pics too. sad day indeed.
If I see more pictures of Montano's work (both of the above items are his, via Dirty 3rd), I'll add them to the end of this post as an update.


Anonymous said...

"The murder rate there (Nawlins) is the highest in the country and then some, making the bloodiest regions of Latin America look tame by comparison."

And you know this, how?

Anonymous said...

As a homeowner whose fence has been the canvas for numerous taggings, I won't be rending my garments in grief for Montano anytime soon.

Gritsforbreakfast said...

So machine, you're glad he was run over? You wouldn't prefer he was given a legal space to tag and you could call the city to wash off tags whenever they showed up on your fence? What's the best outcome for you as a property owner in this situaiton?

And to 7:32: I know this because the murder rate nationally in Mexico, even in the midst of a cartel war is still about the same as Houston's, even when that city is basically at its lowest murder rate in 15 years!

Mexico City's murder rate is actually lower than Houston's which by extension is lower than New Orleans'. (NOLA's per 100,000 number is artificially high because so many people left and didn't return). Mexico's recent overall crime rate is high because of the cartel wars, but recent increases only served put it right on par with major US cities, when previously their aggregate, per capita numbers have been much lower. The average major US city is a more dangerous place, statistically speaking, than most Mexican city, and that's the Latin American country facing the most random violence at the present moment.

My wife is calling me in or I'd riff on that theme some more, but compared to a lot of places I've traveled in Mexico, US cities aren't that safe at all. best,

Anonymous said...


This sucks and suggests to me that policing has changed in post-Katrina NOLA. Heading toward the failed "broken windows" policing approach.

I lived in NOLA for several years and my experience was that cops would almost never bother you for something like this. In the 90s, I (many times) saw NOLA cops handle drunken violence and minor property destruction with far more restraint than is shown in this story.

In fact, a couple of my friends became cops while I was living there and they never would have wasted their time chasing a lone tagger down, esp at a flood wall. Too much real crime to worry about.

Back then, NOLA was the murder capital just like it is now. But it was still a more or less functioning city, despite rampant corruption and dysfunctionality.

I have my ideas about what may have changed but they would be pure speculation. People living in NOLA would be better sources.
Bill Bush

Anonymous said...

Despite recent high profile drug-related violence, I still stand by that analysis, especially regarding the Mexican interior. But border towns, especially on the Mexican side, are a different matter - there all hell is breaking loose. Fairly large Mexican cities just across the Rio Grande like Juarez and Nuevo Laredo teeter on the brink of lawlessness. Police and press appear increasingly intimidated or bought off.

Anonymous said...

Oh, because he was a tagger, that gives him special dispensation? If it had been a bum peeing on the wall, you'd have said, "Oh, well." Unbelievable!

Anonymous said...

"...but I also think that the case suggests possible policy changes that might have prevented it." & "But that training and departmental policy led to a terrible outcome, "

Here's the lesson on how to prevent the terrible outcome:
Don't run from the cops. If you get caught "tagging", take your medicine. There is only one person responsible--the deceased. Damn, talk about some dumb assed buck passing.

Anonymous said...

Anon at 10:47 - No one is shifting responsibility. A young man is dead for crying in the night!

Painting on a wall does not require capital punishment! The fact is, a young man is dead. It is awful that he did not benefit from a criminal justice system that at least tries to have the punishment match the crime.

We should be able to do better next time. Wouldn't you be in favor of that?

Anonymous said...

If you believe the cops will torture or murder you, you'd be a fool not to run.

Gritsforbreakfast said...

@9:53 - that quote you pulled is dated. In the last year drug violence in Mexico HAS spread significantly into the interior and actually lessened some at the border.

That said, poking around this morning I see that I should have said some Latin American countries are approaching NOLA's levels of violence. Gang on gang killings in El Salvador, apparently, have bumped their murder rate up to near-New Orleans-esque levels. In El Salvador, the murder rate is at 55 per 100,000, and in New Orleans it's 57.

Anonymous said...

So machine, you're glad he was run over?

Not at all. It's tragic.

You wouldn't prefer he was given a legal space to tag and you could call the city to wash off tags whenever they showed up on your fence?

The city will not remediate taggings on private residences. Instead, the city fines the homeowner if they don't remove it. And the costs involved in removing taggings isn't cheap, either; last year I spent about $270 on materials alone.

I'd be fine with a legal space for tagging so long as the city - and by extension, taxpayers - was not obligated in any way to maintain it or provide a fresh canvas.

What's the best outcome for you as a property owner in this situaiton?

The county sells a license to tag in designated locations, with the license fees used for remediation of taggings on buildings and private property. In effect, a tax on tagging to help address the negative externalities from graffiti "artists".

Gritsforbreakfast said...

machine, you know the regulatory system can't work. We're talking about rebellious teens.

Plus don't taxpayers now fund police, jails, the regulatory structure that fines you, etc.? Aren't we spending tons of tax money now on graffiti? Your sense that no tax money should go toward promoting legal tagging seems misplaced in that light. (If you didn't see it, check out this cost-benefit discussion.)

What I'm proposing would mitigate homeowner and business costs, reduce police, court and jail costs, and give taggers lots of public space (storm drains, designated walls, etc.) to practice their stuff. It's penny wise and pound foolish to try to make the taggers pay, bc then they won't participate - they're already engaging in an outlawed activity, after all. best,

Anonymous said...

"machine, you know the regulatory system can't work. We're talking about rebellious teens."

So they should just be allowed to do what they want then? One man's art is another man's eyesore. I don't think the residents of a city should have to tolerate these vandals just because one might run into traffic.

Have you ever been to Rome? The city is covered in graffiti. Apparently, the teens there have nothing better to do than spraypaint every historic building in the city. It looks awful and I don't want to see that crap when I get back home.

You want to paint? Paint on private property that you own.

If you do paint and get chased by the police, try to be more careful.

Unknown said...

You see police on the small screen every night giving hell to the "bad guys" - who always deserve this. Anybody who criticizes these noble police is considered misguided and equally to blame. They even depict police roughing up innocent people and later getting accolades when they solve the crime and apprehend the real screen villain.
Most of the audience for these shows identify with the police and victims of the charged crime. Some identify with those who are roughed up during the pursuit of justice [vigilante style]. What would you do if police on screen routinely got information for catching bad guys by pommeling innocent people who know suspected criminals? Do you ever see police apologize for their misbehavior? NO! Because apologies equate to admission of wrongdoing and that equates to lawsuits by angry citizens. Of course people who never admit mistakes don't connect with those they routinely wrong. They claim the right to abuse those they are supposed to serve "for the greater good of the community". I don't buy this crapola!

Gritsforbreakfast said...

Todd, nobody says just let taggers "do what they want." Don't be absurd. OTOH, we have tuff laws now, and the cities are filled with graffiti. So how does that help?

Perhaps you missed the part where I've been advocating for financing powerwasher trucks to get rid of graffiti instead of paying to lock more people up for longer, which hasn't worked. I also think it's okay to give over some public spaces like flood walls and storm drains without any significant harm done. My approach focuses on REMOVING the eyesore.

You apparently believe, what?, that arresting teens (when you can catch them) and fining homeowners like machine is a better approach? Please read my recent cost benefit analysis on graffiti enforcement before responding.

Anonymous said...

The police don't beat up poor innocent people who cooperate with them. They do what is necessary to apprehend people who do run. Resist an arrest - you may be physically subdued by whatever means necessary. The act of running from the police in itself implies that you are guilty of something that is not legal. If you think our justice system is all jacked up, move to another country, let us know how that works for ya.

Anonymous said...



Anonymous said...

Sounds to me that Victor was a moron! A crime is still a crime. Taggers are stupid anyway! If you truly wanted to be recognized as artist you would act like one!
Victor did not deserve to die, and chances are he would have only been charged with a misdeamenor had he stood there. And not all taggers are rebellious teenagers. About 60% are over the age of 18.

Anonymous said...

In retrospect, I think I'm conflating two kinds of tagging in discussion here: urban art & vandalism. If that is the case, I apologize.

Urban tagging as an art form likely has its place, and if left up to the community might be taxpayer funded as such.

Vandalistic tagging, on the other hand... well, here's are some examples of where I'm coming from:
And another
Like with Corpus Christi, I keep paint and supplies on hand to cover it over ASAP, removing the enjoyment of their work.

Your cost-benefit analysis doesn't really address the "benefit" side of tagging aside from the savings of non-incarceration. However, I really like the thought of busted taggers doing the wash/paint work, especially if the low number of apprehensions are stuck doing the lion's share of the dirty work. There's another disincentive right there.

I don't really have faith that taxpayer-subsidized venues for tagging and urban expression will provide the level of outlet for those rebellious teens from having their way with my fence, but I'm willing to promulgate something new & different.

Anonymous said...

About enforcement: Theory and practice are different. Cops kill people, even innocent people, all the time. Being afraid of police is a survival skill in a lot of places in the US, because most of the time, nothing bad happens to the cops when they kill citizens. Pretending this isn't so or giving the benefit of the doubt to someone chasing down a kid in an SUV is just counterproductive. I don't want SUVs chasing down unarmed people on foot that closely, period.

Victor didn't deserve to die, and I hope we all hope the driver didn't intend to hit him with the vehicle -- that it was just gross negligence or a freak accident that the driver was so close he couldn't stop his tank in time -- even though that seems a bit far fetched from my armchair.

We weren't there and we won't know. And in any case one's got his get out of jail free card and the other is lost beyond all reach, so it's a horrible situation we're stuck with.

May Victor rest in peace and may his friends and family find comfort where they can in this awful time.

About Rome: The Roman graffiti writers would like everyone to know that tagging on monuments is entirely unwelcome and that it's done by tourists. I know because I've discussed it with many of them. They know, because of course tags are names.

About Machine's examples: Those are gang tags, not writers' tags. Completely different people and motivations. As you point out, there's no apparent aesthetic impetus, which is often a good way to tell the diff.

About legal (sanctioned) walls: Cities that don't allow them end up having primarily the kind of graffiti that most people complain about. Cities that do have free wall space give a lot of young people something constructive and creative to do, a good thing in itself. The good artists then often go into business and become active in the city's arts scene. So win/win for artists and public + taxes and employment.

St Louis has a humongous, often-paintable levee flood wall that has been the host of many a fine piece of art over the last 8 years. It's become a tourist attraction for viewers. That wall is not without its controversies, but overall it's been a positive thing for a very blighted area of the city that was previously going unused by everything but mud.

That said, in the US, the government is not the best provider of these spaces historically. Instead private businesses, schools and churches tend to be. Some cities have temporary construction walls that are paintable, warehouses in industrial zones, walls in skate parks, and a few have bridge areas or parking lots that are available for artists. The impediment to getting artistic use of so-called public property is the number of processes and procedures necessary for getting permission from government agencies.

Dokes and Cabs - San Antonio

Eskape, Code - San Antonio

Maez, Menace, Yikes, Blew, Emaze, Ners, Twisted - Houston

This is the sort of thing that graffiti writers do in Texas when they have a safer place to paint.

Anonymous said...

lil victor this is from your stepmother joanne may you rest in peace with the lord , i truelt miss you i did not seen you when you was here visiting with your dad but i was hoping to see you before u left but, this had to to happen .. i love you
your stepmother joanne s. montano

Anonymous said...

may the lord up above send an angle to protect the montano family with his love
form yours truly
joanne s. montano

Anonymous said...


Gritsforbreakfast said...

First, to Montano's family and friends, you have my sincerest condolences. I hope you've found what I've written here respectful. I'm sorry for your loss.

Machine and info - I think it's true there's a distinction between "writer" tags and gang tags, though unfortunately there is also grey area. But the artistic content, to me, is not the key distinction.

Even bad art is art. Graffiti is a radical act because it places in conflict two fundamental principles: free speech rights and property rights. If the taggers who wrote on your fence, machine, had produced more artistic works, you'd still have the right to be angry (though I'd understand it less), because it's your property and not their decision to make.

I think homeowners and property owners who don't want graffiti on their walls have a right to ask that something be done about it. But it's less expensive and more responsive to property owners needs to focus on rapid restoration - e.g., repairing harm. I think it's wrong to threaten to fine a crime victim if they don't clean up the tagger's work. It's 25x cheaper and much more effective for the city and youth from the juvie probation department to do that work than to try to imprison every last tagger.

Machine, maybe you should consider asking one of info's friends to use your wall as a free, public space to do something nicer and more permanent. You might get a cool mural out of the deal to judge by the work s/he linked to, which was really cool. best,

jdgalt said...

Graffiti, like littering, needs a big penalty because the probability of being caught and successfully prosecuted is so tiny, and the expected punishment MUST be enough to deter. So long as graffiti is still happening it means that the current punishment for it is too low.

This incident is not a tragedy. It's justice. I hope this officer and his department have the good sense to keep the same set of priorities that led to it.

Gritsforbreakfast said...

So now cops are judge, jury and executioner out in the street, and that's justice?

I hardly know where to start, JDG, so I won't.

Anonymous said...

OMG Mr. Gault, did you just get out of economics class or something? Try these facts on for size:

1. Texas already imprisons people at a higher rate than any nation in the world.

2. We can't afford to staff the prisons we've got and have been 2,500 guards short or more for years.

3. Prisons are bursting at the seams in Texas, but if we build more there's no one to staff them.

So if you make penalties for graffiti and littering tougher, who will guard the inmatess? Illegal immigrants? Is this another job Americans won't do? My God, what an embarrassing comment that this was "justice." I hope you're not in law enforcement.

Anonymous said...

Machine, maybe you should consider asking one of info's friends to use your wall as a free, public space to do something nicer and more permanent. You might get a cool mural out of the deal to judge by the work s/he linked to, which was really cool. best,

Not a bad idea, some of the work info linked to would probably be very acceptable to the neighborhood. The homeowners assoc would buck, though.

The remediation-via-juvies idea is a good one, too.

Anonymous said...

victor your dad and i miss u much
even if they think of me as a bitch
i loveu truely

Unknown said...

A few observations

Since criminal mischief and evading on foot are both misdemeanor crimes (assuming so in LA as well as Texas), it would be interesting to know what this local PD policy is on misdemeanor vs felony pursuits.

Also I would be curious to know if the dash board camera (if in use), phone and radio logs (most departments record all convos on these devices) call cards and final reports on the incident have been third party reviewed.

Depending on LA state statute, ANY person can obtain these public documents through a freedom of information act request or if need be a subpoena through an attorney.

In all likely hood since Victor was allegedly committing an offense during this incident, criminal negligence on the part of the officer would be impossible to prove.

If there is evidence of malicious or negligent behavior, with regard to pursuit policy, the evidence in this incident needs to be protected as soon as it can be.

All hyperbole aside, if the officer and department acted correctly then there should be no problem with a review of these materials.

I would hope also that all youths learn from this tragedy that risking your safety to avoid what would have been a fine and possible community service term for this type of trivial offense is unwarranted. Any person who is advising juveniles to avoid law enforcement officers or to engage in criminal activity, has the blood of these children on their hands when these types of tragedies occur. God have mercy on your pitiful souls.

Police officers are charged with enforcing the laws of their community regardless of the popularity of the statutes.

Any person who has conflict with these laws is invited to run for office and set these statutes straight to the best of their ability, or remain in the minority.

My thoughts and prayers go out to Victor's family as well as to the officer and his family.

Victor is a close personal friend of my daughter and by all accounts was an awesome, gifted kid. I am also a law enforcement officer in the state of Texas.

Anonymous said...

New orleans is full of racist cops! I feel sadly for the family, it shouldnot have happened. :(

Anonymous said...

Lord! help this State and the nation! When things like this happens, all we can do is pray for our kids, our government, and the people that God has placed to look out over us as a whole. Now all we as a people can do is pray let the Lord convict the heart of man. Was this a willing act or an accident? Montana Family, My Prayer is with you and Officer of the Law, My prayer is with you, We all have to live with the lost and hurt,and the Officer has to live knowing someone's baby was killed when he was driving his vehicle.
God Bless!

Anonymous said...

the cop who ran over that child was nothing but a coward, he should have been chasing the real crimminals out there, not a person painting a dam wall!

Anonymous said...

i knew munik. victor montano. the happiest kid you could ever meet. he grew into the whole hip hop scene, b-boying and then graffiti. didn't even know him for a year yet... but no doubt he is one of the most caring and giving people you could EVER meet. we talked those two weeks he was in the N.O everyday. he would call and text me every morning and every night...what happened to him was no excuse. should have NEVER happened in the first place. he just turned 16 march 19. he was born March 19, 1991. he didn't even get a chance to live yet, and even if he did graffiti and vandalized a levy wall where people jog by, not even visable to the main streets much less highways... that rent a cop did not have to take his life. simply makin him clean the wall would have been punishment enough.. i went to his funeral..i saw my brother layed down in a casket...his face in pain.... before you past judgement on people you need to realize and try to understand the whole concept of what really happened, and what really went on. enough said.

r.i.p MUNIK_Victor Montano.
"to DIE doing what you love most is to have LIVED more than many of us ever will."

Anonymous said...

all you have to do is give us a place to express real art, real images. not for money, or for fame. but fora better look of color to life.

give us our place. thats all we asked.

he may have been in the wrong, but the law in houston for tagging is if they find your tag anywhere else, they get you for that. they keep multiplying it till your in their for a long long time. (past experience).

P.S. - we dont tag walls that our everyday business, because they get taken down. machine, maybe your not getting the art he displayed. maybe neighborhood kids, than us painters.


Anonymous said...

the law ia the law dont paint on to mess the public

Anonymous said...

he was a young artist, and it was a shame the way he went out of here!

Anonymous said...

victor, why didn't you just stop, and waited!what ever the price was i know u have family that would had paiod it! but sometimes god do what he fills is right!and it was just your turn to go , and go that way! to the family, i think about you all the time! just be strong, go on with your life, i know it will be hard for an unexpected death such as that one, butkeep up with the lord!do his will , be closer to yoyr other child and see to it that he goes in the right direction, never forget victor, i know i won't!

Anonymous said...

just came across this and see my pics and comment has been used in lots of sites besides the dirty3rd. first time refered to as a tagger tho just for posting pics and appreciating graff work around town, and (DECLARING) where to find it. that was just for dirty to snap pics for the site.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe that anyone could call a 16 year old kid a criminal, and could not show sypathy for him. Just because he was a grafitti artist he suddenly stopped being human? Just to inform the ignorant, 'art' as you call it, is simply express yourself in a way unique way that is understandable possibly to no one else except yourself, and millions of people from every corner of the world find that the only way that they can properly express themselves is through graffitti. Thus, they are true artists, and anyone who denies or tries to take that away from them will live thier lives just a narrow-minded and ignorant as ever, and will suffer living with themselves. This is a tragedy, and those who fail to see that are heartless. We should all be praying for Munik's parents and for him, God rest his soul. I did not know him, but I don't have to to feel the sorrow of an innocent TEENAGER's death. Victor, Munik, you are in our thoughts and our prayers. Have peace.

Street Miezer Crew

Anonymous said...

Street Crew couldnt have said it any better. This was a tragedy and our prayers need to go out to the FAMILY. "Munik" was someone's child and he was a human being. ALL humans make mistakes. Small children color on walls, floors, etc. Older children show their artwork in other forms. This was a sad tragedy and our prayers go to the child's family. I believe that if you are all "good people" then yours should as well and quit condeming the child. Enough said......

Anonymous said...

man, some folks on here are cold blooded.... people been writing on walls since people been writing!! yall are talking like this kid deserved to die... <-- thats crazy.... you know, i would much rather the kids in my neighborhood paint on the walls, rather than selling drugs and shooting people!!

Anonymous said...

you guys make me sick munik was from my neighborhood he posted up at the old kroger on my block it makes me sick that somebody who is held so high can be dogged by so many people who don't know anything about him or what he represented. thats just sick you didnt know him and to say he should have died was just wrong.


Anonymous said...

R.I.P i meet him one time at school such a nice guy this should have never happened

Anonymous said...

im hispanic and i totally agree with machine , machine said...
As a homeowner whose fence has been the canvas for numerous taggings, I won't be rending my garments in grief for Montano anytime soon.

kidddies - this tagging thing is pointless ! we have paper and real canvas at stores .. and paint ... lol

Anonymous said...

come on what kind of parents think that this is talent (graffiti) ? dont think his parents or members are good examples look what happen got his boredness in pain and grief .. tooo late to be proud nothing can bring him back ! blah blah blah ... sucks to be him or (them) his people ...

KWEEN_897 said...

not a day goes by that we don't think of you...
more than crew, a family is what we knew...

we joked, we played, we laughed, we lived...
the passion you had for art, for graff, you gived...

never the less, two days from today will mark two years since you've been gone...
dying doing what you loved is living like never before, however you're death, i know it was so wrong...

we cried, we shared our all our memories of you, and you just wait, in two days, we'll see you again soon...


Anonymous said...

Wow i cant believe any of this being said...
Okay? The boy broke the law,Who hasnt at least once?!
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.
&&to basically say you dont care when someone was run over,when a youth was run over??
Either you are some young early 20s person or you just have no sympathy or emotion??
What if your son,your family member was run over?
You saying that is like spiting in his face.
You are so rude

Anonymous said...

The sad fact is that his life was wasted with what is essentially a negative...spending his time damaging other peoples property. Tagging is a waste of ones life spent in a non productive manor. The lesson to learn, if there is one, is don't be tagging. Get a life and be productive.